Security scan, or "sexual molestation"?

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cjek

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#51 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

[QUOTE="cjek"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

*Shrugs*

I don't worry about that stuff in the first place. If someone wanted to kill the **** out of a whole lot of people, there's no reason for them to even go to the airport in the first place. They could just as easily go to places with NO security, like the city bus, a crowded movie theater, or a packed college lecture hall. By all sound reasoning, I should be more concerned about terrorism in the mall or at the supermarket than on an airplane.

MrGeezer

But terrorists clearly haven't been thinking like that. Generally speaking, planes have been targeted by the more serious plots. Because when a plane falls from the sky, the public is terrorised and there are mass casualties. A bomb in a mall generally kills far fewer, wouldn't have the same effect on the public psychologically, and doesn't attract the attention of the world's media as easily. So yes, there is more likely to be an attack in a mall, but only because security is incredibly tight on air travel.

I disagree. Terrorist attacks on airplanes are confined to airplanes. People think it's a flight-related thing, and therefore feel safe as long as they aren't flying. Movie terrorist attacks away from the airport and into malls and schools would mean that in the mind of the public, they aren't safe ANYWHERE.

But they simply aren't doing that. I appreciate your understanding that malls and schools *would* be better targets if they start hitting them in large numbers, and I agree with that point. That's a fact. But they aren't doing it. For some unknown reason they continue to target the most secure form of transport; planes. And plane attacks certainly aren't confined to planes. More people died on the ground in 9/11 than on the planes. Pan Am Flight 103 in 1988 caused extensive damage and casualties on the ground. The recent printer cartridge plot was supposed to blow up planes over American cities.
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#52 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

It might be slightly invasive, but it will prevent anything from being brought onto a plane that shouldn't be. I fly every so often and this will make me feel better.

I vote for increased security on flights.

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mike_me

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#53 mike_me
Member since 2004 • 1135 Posts

Yeah I heard this on radio. I hope he wins his suit. I think it's ridiculous that they feel the need to grope you and I think it's even more ridiculous that they refused to let him leave.

frostybanana
This exactly. I wouldn't want my girlfriend to go through this either. I'd press hard, HARD lawsuits against an airport if they made me or my girlfriend go through in order to fly home to our jobs.
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Legolas_Katarn

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#54 Legolas_Katarn
Member since 2003 • 15556 Posts
I really wouldn't care at all if it happened to me.
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MrGeezer

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#55 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

It might be slightly invasive, but it will prevent anything from being brought onto a plane that shouldn't be. I fly every so often and this will make me feel better.

I vote for increased security on flights.

airshocker

They say that about every security measure. Then someone DOES get something onto a plane, and then they add a new security measure related to that one specific terrorism attempt.

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ghoklebutter

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#56 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]Safety takes priorityxaos
I disagree wholeheartedly; the foundational principles of the USA take precedence over a mostly-illusory sense of additional safety.

Good point.
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deactivated-5cacc9e03b460

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#57 deactivated-5cacc9e03b460
Member since 2005 • 6976 Posts

This is just an example of our freedoms slowly diminishing. I absolutely refuse to support these new "security" measurers, even if it means not flying.

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IcyToasters

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#58 IcyToasters
Member since 2007 • 12476 Posts

"if you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested."Angry_Guy

:lol:

It's not like it's a nice picture of you without your undergarments on, and it's not like the workers will even care.
I'm fine (and actually like the idea, for the practical application) with the scanners. They're there for safety reasons, and it's not going to be something that they haven't seen before.

It's not like I wouldn't get nekkid for them anyway O___o

It's hard to beleive they wouldn't just give you a frisking if you didn't want to use the machine for health reasons; I wouldn't like the idea of constantly walking through an x-ray if I flew often.

P.S.: OP's picture looks like a person with a jet engine for an anus

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EMOEVOLUTION

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#59 EMOEVOLUTION
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts
I don't think anyone has the right to preemptively determine if you're a threat to other people based on security procedures.
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#60 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

It's not like it's a nice picture of you without your undergarments on, and it's not like the workers will even care.

IcyToasters
O rly?
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EolGul2

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#61 EolGul2
Member since 2005 • 1721 Posts

I avoid the airport whenever possible because it's such a hassle and driving is often cheaper.

My problem is that the government is making it harder for private companies to turn a profit in the name of security.

Also, the terrorists are just as aware of the security as you and I. I'd imagine they will go where there is relatively little security, like a college campus, a major sporting event, a movie theater, a bus, etc. I wonder if the government will start adding TSA style security measures to those places if and when they are attacked.

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Oleg_Huzwog

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#62 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

Full body scanners are completely unnecessary. They don't make travel more safe. All they do is make travel more uncomfortable for some, and more expensive for all.

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EolGul2

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#63 EolGul2
Member since 2005 • 1721 Posts

Full body scanners are completely unnecessary. They don't make travel more safe. All they do is make travel more uncomfortable for some, and more expensive for all.

Oleg_Huzwog

I think they got around $1,000,000,000 from the Obama stimulus to install those scanners. So I don't know if it makes travel more expensive. I think it either increses the defecit and/or makes out taxes higher.

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deactivated-5cf0a2e13dbde

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#64 deactivated-5cf0a2e13dbde
Member since 2005 • 12935 Posts
Complete invasion of privacy. I struggle to believe how much American civil rights have eroded in the past decade. It's insane.
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BMD004

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#65 BMD004
Member since 2010 • 5883 Posts

Why is the person in the picture farting?

Anyway, I'm on the fence. On one hand, I feel like it is a complete invasion of privacy. On the other hand, what other option do we have? I know for damn sure that I don't want anybody sneaking any kind of weapon or explosive on any plane. In my opinion, a pat down is much more invasive than a simple x-ray scan.

In all honesty, it's not a big deal. So they see the form of your body. So what. They will see thousands a day, don't act like yours is special.

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Holyknight_CJ

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#66 Holyknight_CJ
Member since 2006 • 1091 Posts

Why is the person in the picture farting?BMD004
:lol: I noticed that too.

Edit: It looks like she's giving birth to a large fish.

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Oleg_Huzwog

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#67 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

On one hand, I feel like it is a complete invasion of privacy. On the other hand, what other option do we have?BMD004

The other option is to stop introducing silly new security measures that provide no additional security benefit.

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#68 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

They say that about every security measure. Then someone DOES get something onto a plane, and then they add a new security measure related to that one specific terrorism attempt.

MrGeezer

We know exactly what this measure does. It allows you to see ANYTHING on a person. I don't think there's many more measures we can take.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#69 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

They say that about every security measure. Then someone DOES get something onto a plane, and then they add a new security measure related to that one specific terrorism attempt.

airshocker

We know exactly what this measure does. It allows you to see ANYTHING on a person. I don't think there's many more measures we can take.

Until someone swallows explosives or crams them in their rectum. Will you be so sanguine when stomach pumps and "thorough" strip searches are added as security measures?
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#70 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Until someone swallows explosives or crams them in their rectum. Will you be so sanguine when stomach pumps and "thorough" strip searches are added as security measures?xaos

Until they come up with a way to detonate said explosives that can't be detected via metal detector...I'm not worried.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#71 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"]Until someone swallows explosives or crams them in their rectum. Will you be so sanguine when stomach pumps and "thorough" strip searches are added as security measures?airshocker

Until they come up with a way to detonate said explosives that can't be detected via metal detector...I'm not worried.

Now I'm confused; are you saying that the metal detectors we've had in use for 30+ years were already sufficient?
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kidsmelly

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#72 kidsmelly
Member since 2009 • 5692 Posts

I would rather just get a full body patdown. I will even provide the oil and candles.

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#73 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Now I'm confused; are you saying that the metal detectors we've had in use for 30+ years were already sufficient?xaos

Not sufficient enough for outer body detection, apparently. You have many more options when it comes to trying to detonate something when you have both of your hands free. When something is inside your body it's a lot tougher.

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MrGeezer

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#74 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"]Now I'm confused; are you saying that the metal detectors we've had in use for 30+ years were already sufficient?airshocker

Not sufficient enough for outer body detection, apparently. You have many more options when it comes to trying to detonate something when you have both of your hands free. When something is inside your body it's a lot tougher.

Just out of curiosity, will the signal from a cell phone penetrate into a person's stomach? Because I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using cell phones to trigger bombs.

Also, just out of curiosity, are people allowed to bring their cell phones onto airplanes?

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Atmanix

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#75 Atmanix
Member since 2009 • 6927 Posts

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="xaos"]Now I'm confused; are you saying that the metal detectors we've had in use for 30+ years were already sufficient?MrGeezer

Not sufficient enough for outer body detection, apparently. You have many more options when it comes to trying to detonate something when you have both of your hands free. When something is inside your body it's a lot tougher.

Just out of curiosity, will the signal from a cell phone penetrate into a person's stomach? Because I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using cell phones to trigger bombs.

Also, just out of curiosity, are people allowed to bring their cell phones onto airplanes?

I flew a year ago and I was allowed to bring mine onto the plane. I don't think that has changed.

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#76 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Just out of curiosity, will the signal from a cell phone penetrate into a person's stomach? Because I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using cell phones to trigger bombs.

Also, just out of curiosity, are people allowed to bring their cell phones onto airplanes?

MrGeezer

What makes you think a receiver wouldn't be picked up by the metal detector?

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topsemag55

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#77 topsemag55
Member since 2007 • 19063 Posts

I can put up with it if it keeps terrorists with bombs off of planes.

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Oleg_Huzwog

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#78 Oleg_Huzwog
Member since 2007 • 21885 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Just out of curiosity, will the signal from a cell phone penetrate into a person's stomach? Because I'm pretty sure I've heard of people using cell phones to trigger bombs.

Also, just out of curiosity, are people allowed to bring their cell phones onto airplanes?

airshocker

What makes you think a receiver wouldn't be picked up by the metal detector?

If it can be picked up the metal detector, why do we need the full body scanner?

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tofu-lion91

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#79 tofu-lion91
Member since 2008 • 13496 Posts
Personally I'd be fine with a full body scan but I can understand people who see it as an invasion of privacy. That man was asking for trouble though and was a complete idiot turning up to an airport with no intention of following the security procedure. It's fine if he didn't want to have the full body scan but refusing a pat down is ridiculous. Since I'm a woman I've just asked my brother if pat downs involve touching the crotch, he said no but they will say that it does just in case they accidentally brush the area. I think the guy overreacted and wasted people's time for nothing.
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#80 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

If it can be picked up the metal detector, why do we need the full body scanner?

Oleg_Huzwog

I already addressed this. There are other ways to detonate something that can't be detected by a metal detector. Those ways aren't really feasible when the device is inside your body.

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PBSnipes

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#81 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

I can put up with it if it keeps terrorists with bombs off of planes.

topsemag55

What about the airport itself? A terrorist could accomplish the exact same goals as blowing up a plane -- hundreds of casualties and the complete shut-down of air traffic -- by detonating a bomb in the security screening queue.

Anyone defending the TSA's current practices needs to read thesetwo articles.

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#82 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

What about the airport itself? A terrorist could accomplish the exact same goals as blowing up a plane -- hundreds of casualties and the complete shut-down of air traffic -- by detonating a bomb in the security screening queue (ie before anyone has undergone any sort of security screening process).

Anyone defending the TSA's current practices needs to read thesetwo articles.

PBSnipes

That would be a job for actual airport security. Not the TSA. Read the mandates of agencies next time.

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MrGeezer

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#83 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

Just out of curiosity, how does security deal with people who have, for example, shrapnel in their bodies. Because I know that some of the people getting on airports must have metal inside of them.

When the metal inside their bodies sets off the metal detectors, how does security usually handle such a situation?

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#84 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Just out of curiosity, how does security deal with people who have, for example, shrapnel in their bodies. Because I know that some of the people getting on airports must have metal inside of them.

When the metal inside their bodies sets off the metal detectors, how does security usually handle such a situation?

MrGeezer

The fed issues a card...

You're supposed to have that card ready when you go through the metal detector.

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194197844077667059316682358889

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#85 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Just out of curiosity, how does security deal with people who have, for example, shrapnel in their bodies. Because I know that some of the people getting on airports must have metal inside of them.

When the metal inside their bodies sets off the metal detectors, how does security usually handle such a situation?

airshocker

The fed issues a card...

You're supposed to have that card ready when you go through the metal detector.

Is that a new (post-9/11) occurrence? My mom has a piece of wire in her right hip socket from a surgery she had in an Army hospital and she never had any such card.
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IcyToasters

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#86 IcyToasters
Member since 2007 • 12476 Posts

[QUOTE="IcyToasters"]

It's not like it's a nice picture of you without your undergarments on, and it's not like the workers will even care.

xaos

O rly?



Now that's just... pornographic! :P

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#87 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Is that a new (post-9/11) occurrence? My mom has a piece of wire in her right hip socket from a surgery she had in an Army hospital and she never had any such card.xaos

I thought it was pre-9/11.

My Mom has pins and wires in her knee and she has a card. And that was A LONG time ago.

Maybe your mother's wire won't set off the detector? Does she travel?

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MrGeezer

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#88 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Just out of curiosity, how does security deal with people who have, for example, shrapnel in their bodies. Because I know that some of the people getting on airports must have metal inside of them.

When the metal inside their bodies sets off the metal detectors, how does security usually handle such a situation?

airshocker

The fed issues a card...

You're supposed to have that card ready when you go through the metal detector.

Is this a card that can be forged? Additionally, what happens to someone who either forgot their card, or never got a card in the first place? Are they strip searched and then let on the plane? Are they x-rayed to determine what's setting off the metal detectors? Are they simply denied entry onto the plane, and then told to come back once they have a card?

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#89 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

Now that's just... pornographic! :P

IcyToasters
I was taking issue with your claim that workers wouldn't care; since that was one of several (multiple) stories I found of TSA workers keeping and/or distributing scans of people.
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#90 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts

[QUOTE="xaos"]Is that a new (post-9/11) occurrence? My mom has a piece of wire in her right hip socket from a surgery she had in an Army hospital and she never had any such card.airshocker

I thought it was pre-9/11.

My Mom has pins and wires in her knee and she has a card. And that was A LONG time ago.

Maybe your mother's wire won't set off the detector?

Nah it always did and she always just explained it and was waved on through; probably just an example of the more lax security of that era.
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#91 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Is this a card that can be forged? Additionally, what happens to someone who either forgot their card, or never got a card in the first place? Are they strip searched and then let on the plane? Are they x-rayed to determine what's setting off the metal detectors? Are they simply denied entry onto the plane, and then told to come back once they have a card?

MrGeezer

I'm sure anything can be forged, but I think they actually take you aside and do more specific scans.when you have a card. Without one, I think they can look it up. On the card it'll say exactly where the metal is, etc.

Not sure about the other things. I only know some brief things about TSA security procedures from training.

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#92 deactivated-6127ced9bcba0
Member since 2006 • 31700 Posts

Nah it always did and she always just explained it and was waved on through; probably just an example of the more lax security of that era.xaos

Probably. I think nowadays you have to have a card.

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bloodling

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#93 bloodling
Member since 2006 • 5822 Posts

The new method hides these things... So this shouldn't be a problem anymore...

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IcyToasters

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#94 IcyToasters
Member since 2007 • 12476 Posts

[QUOTE="IcyToasters"]

Now that's just... pornographic! :P

xaos

I was taking issue with your claim that workers wouldn't care; since that was one of several (multiple) stories I found of TSA workers keeping and/or distributing scans of people.


Hm, you do have a point there.

I'm not sure what to say though.
People are creepers? :(

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tofu-lion91

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#95 tofu-lion91
Member since 2008 • 13496 Posts
I summed up my post in a comment on that guy's blog and also mentioned that he's a coward for deleting any negative comments people post. Noticed a lot of comments on there had the usual paranoia that the government is out to get YOU and destroy YOUR freedom. Yes you. Personally. Can't elaborate further on this because I'll get angry and write a rant about a certain country that will get me moderated ~.~
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PBSnipes

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#96 PBSnipes
Member since 2007 • 14621 Posts

That would be a job for actual airport security. Not the TSA. Read the mandates of agencies next time.

airshocker

Regardless, the fact remains that these new security measures do little (if anything) to improve safety -- it's nothing more than security theatre that wastes money and time, and invades the privacy of citizens.

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#97 pimpog
Member since 2010 • 659 Posts

Scans and pat downs do nothing to improve security all they do is cost more money and time.

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metroidfood

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#98 metroidfood
Member since 2007 • 11175 Posts

I don't mind an enhanced security scan, just so long as it buys me dinner first.

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Mr_Cumberdale

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#99 Mr_Cumberdale
Member since 2004 • 10189 Posts
The airport are treating us like criminals. No one deserves to have their clothes visibly ripped off.
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frostybanana

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#100 frostybanana
Member since 2010 • 5523 Posts
I summed up my post in a comment on that guy's blog and also mentioned that he's a coward for deleting any negative comments people post. Noticed a lot of comments on there had the usual paranoia that the government is out to get YOU and destroy YOUR freedom. Yes you. Personally. Can't elaborate further on this because I'll get angry and write a rant about a certain country that will get me moderated ~.~tofu-lion91
The government is out to get me and destroy my freedom. It do suck :(