"Why Does A Loving God Send People To Hell?" - video

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

cheezisgoooood

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

cheezisgoooood

Don't you think that God would provide new spiritual and social teachings for the modern age of our time?

Depends on how you picture Hell. Most people have the stereotypical view of whips and chains for the rest of eternity then yes, hell seems rather preposterous. That image was pretty much orginated from The Divine Comedy. But if you view hell as a place absence of God, then from a Christain stand point, Hell seems possible.

[QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

Nuck81

That's a good point - would a God expect us to live our lives like we are still living in the first century? The world has changed so much - in so many ways that we can't even compare today's society to what existed then.

If it's true... that is.

There is a reason the idea of hell has taken hold of so much of religion. It is because apostacy needs punishment. If there is no punishment, and no evidence, there is no reason for me to believe. If there is no hell, then God does not care whether I or anyone else believes or not.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

Thuganomic05

That's a good point - would a God expect us to live our lives like we are still living in the first century? The world has changed so much - in so many ways that we can't even compare today's society to what existed then.

If it's true... that is.

There is a reason the idea of hell has taken hold of so much of religion. It is because apostacy needs punishment. If there is no punishment, and no evidence, there is no reason to believe. If there is no hell, then God does not care whether I or anyone else believes or not.

cheezisgoooood

umm because he gave us free will and the ability to choose right from wrong while warning us not to do evil acts to each other and he has the right to punish us much like a parent would to his/her children because he is god?

I once spoke with a friend of mine about this. I asked him if children go to hell. He told me he believes there is a frame of time when a child can die, not know God, and still go to heaven.:18

I asked him, "give me an age. What's an age that you would say is a reasonable time for God to lift the grace period?"

Perhaps without thinking, he told me, 8 years old.

So I told him, "okay. So imagine a starving child in Africa who dies at the age of 8. No missionaries reached his village, the message of Jesus was not preached to him, he has simply never heard the Word of God. That child is now burning forever. He has no hope for escape. Because of your God's arbitrary requirements for salvation, that child who was born, by no fault of his own, in an area of the world where your religion is unheard of, and where children die of disease and starvation every single day, is now burning in hell and is completely confused as to why. How can you feel comfortable trying to convince me, with no evidence, not only that such a God exists, but that he is fair and loving?"

He couldn't answer with any sort of logic. He knew I had cornered him and he simply told me he still believes, and that what I had said had not reached him in any meaningful way.

I used to tell myself that people who don't know God in different countries where Christianity doesn't exist, would automatically be sent to heaven. That's not theologically sound, however. It destroys the whole point of the message of this religion. It is irreconcilable. Either God is unworthy of worship, or simply does not exist. That was my conclusion.

cheezisgoooood

For the needy shall not always be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever. (Pslam 9:18)

Your friend needs to do his homework. Eternal judgement of others is a sin. "Thou shall not have any other Gods before me." In your hypethical situation with your friend, he was wrong giving a judgment whether that child goes to hell or anyone in that fact. Your friend made himself a God by judging and predicting anothers eternal punishment.

[QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

There is a reason the idea of hell has taken hold of so much of religion. It is because apostacy needs punishment. If there is no punishment, and no evidence, there is no reason to believe. If there is no hell, then God does not care whether I or anyone else believes or not.

Nuck81

Believing in something that has no evidence for its existence is apparently the same as refraining from murder, rape, and theft to you. In not believing, I have not inconvenienced anyone else. My question to you is, what reason is there for believing in something without evidence, if there is no punishment for not doing so? Why must I do it?

[QUOTE="tocool340"][QUOTE="gaming25"]

So? It's still what he did himself.

Pikdum

God didn't create the devil. He created Lucifer, Lucifer loved god so much he wanted to be him and he didn't want to serve humanity. Then god casted him down and he became the Devil and corrupted angels became demons. So god didn't directly create the Devil. I'm not religious though so correct me if I'm wrong.

I have trouble understanding how a creation of god can be powerful enough to oppose him though.

For the needy shall not always be forgotten: the expectation of the poor shall not perish for ever.(Pslam 9:18)

Your friend needs to do his homework. Eternal judgement of others is a sin. "Thou shall not have any other Gods before me." In you hypethical situation with your friend, he was wrong giving a judgment whether that child goes to hell or anyone in the fact. Your friend made himself a God by judging and predicting anothers eternal punishment.

muffincakes87

And the kicker is, he wants to be a missionary. I agree, he needs to do his homework.

Nowhere does it say in the Bible whether there is a grace period, or how long that period lasts. However, the question is problematic all the same, in my opinion.

[QUOTE="Nuck81"][QUOTE="cheezisgoooood"]

There is a reason the idea of hell has taken hold of so much of religion. It is because apostacy needs punishment. If there is no punishment, and no evidence, there is no reason to believe. If there is no hell, then God does not care whether I or anyone else believes or not.

cheezisgoooood

Believing in something that has no evidence for its existence is apparently the same as refraining from murder, rape, and theft to you. In not believing, I have not inconvenienced anyone else. My question to you is, what reason is there for believing in something without evidence, if there is no punishment for not doing so? Why must I do it?

You shouldn't, that's your choice. You said Hell and punishment is the sole reason that people believe in God and religion. My Religion does not believe in Hell, or at least not a hell where you spend every waking moment of eternity playing Marco Polo in a Lake of Fire. In Fact no other religions believe in a hell of a Lake of Fire and endless torment. That is solely a Christian invention and not even all Christian denominations believe in it as well. Probably because it doesn't have a lot of Biblical evidence to back it up. Unless you take a lot of scripture out of context and apply to it to situations that it doesn't relate too. So No, I do not believe in God because I fear going to Hell.Nuck81

Oh hey, straw man argument, didn't see you there.

No I didn't. Read my post again.

EDIT: Actually you know what, I can see where you get that insinuation. While I didn't intend for it to sound that way, it does seem to say that in some way. I'll go back and edit the post and highlight it so that it doens't cause any more misunderstanding.

I think the better question is why does a loving god send people to church?

[QUOTE="Nuck81"]

You shouldn't, that's your choice. You said Hell and punishment is the sole reason that people believe in God and religion. My Religion does not believe in Hell, or at least not a hell where you spend every waking moment of eternity playing Marco Polo in a Lake of Fire. In Fact no other religions believe in a hell of a Lake of Fire and endless torment. That is solely a Christian invention and not even all Christian denominations believe in it as well. Probably because it doesn't have a lot of Biblical evidence to back it up. Unless you take a lot of scripture out of context and apply to it to situations that it doesn't relate too. So No, I do not believe in God because I fear going to Hell.cheezisgoooood

Oh hey, straw man argument, didn't see you there.

No I didn't. Read my post again.

Edit in response to your new statement. What exactly would you consider evidence?

As far as evidence goes, I need something verifiable. God in general is described as invisible, untouchable, and outside of our realm. You can no better prove that than you can prove invisible this or invisible that. Because of that, there is no evidence, and just like I can make up the idea that there is an invisible pyramid right in the middle of Manhattan, i can also make up that there is a being who created the universe who is invisible and outside of our realm.

If you're talking a specific religion that makes claims that it has access to God, well every religion does that, and generally with the same results. There would have to be a really really good reason to believe the claims of any religion, because there are so many out there. If the only reason they give is the same as the reasons all the other ones give, such as "you can see god all around you," or "my personal experience tells me it's true," or "(insert religious text) makes vague prophecies that came true," or "my toast has the portrait of (insert religious figure) on it," those, to me, don't count as evidence. I need something unique that proves that that specific god exists, and that can be tested and verified, and that you can make predictions based on, kind of like scientific evidence. I have yet to see such evidence, but I have always welcomed anyone to provide me with some.

As far as evidence goes, I need something verifiable. God in general is described as invisible, untouchable, and outside of our realm. You can no better prove that than you can prove invisible this or invisible that. Because of that, there is no evidence, and just like I can make up the idea that there is an invisible pyramid right in the middle of Manhattan, i can also make up that there is a being who created the universe who is invisible and outside of our realm.

If you're talking a specific religion that makes claims that it has access to God, well every religion does that, and generally with the same results. There would have to be a really really good reason to believe the claims of any religion, because there are so many out there. If the only reason they give is the same as the reasons all the other ones give, such as "you can see god all around you," or "my personal experience tells me it's true," or "(insert religious text) makes vague prophecies that came true," or "my toast has the portrait of (insert religious figure) on it," those, to me, don't count as evidence. I need something unique that proves that that specific god exists, and that can be tested and verified, and that you can make predictions based on, kind of like scientific evidence. I have yet to see such evidence, but I have always welcomed anyone to provide me with some.

cheezisgoooood

God is so far beyond His creation that, throughout all eternity, human beings will never be able to formulate any clear image of Him or attain to anything but the most remote appreciation of His superior nature. Even if we say that God is the All-Powerful, the All-Loving, the Infinitely Just, such terms are derived from a very limited human experience of power, love, or justice. Indeed, our knowledge of anything is limited to our knowledge of those attributes or qualities perceptible to us

Know that there are two kinds of knowledge: the knowledge of the essence of a thing and the knowledge of its qualities. The essence of a thing is known through its qualities; otherwise, it is unknown and hidden. As our knowledge of things, even of created and limited things, is knowledge of their qualities and not of their essence, how is it possible to comprehend in its essence the Divine Reality, which is unlimited? ... Knowing God, therefore, means the comprehension and the knowledge of His attributes, and not of His Reality. This knowledge of the attributes is also proportioned to the capacity and power of man; it is not absolute

Not all denominations of Christianity believe the same thing. Some denominations don't even believe in hell. Then, you have some people who make up their own beliefs or hear rumors about what happens. I knew one person who said that you do go to hell if you sin but it's like a jail sentence, where you only stay a certain amount of time depending on what sin you committed.

Fact of the matter is that you're not going to convert or make someone an Atheist on a video game forum. If a forum post was enough to give you doubts your religion (or lack of religion) wasn't that strong to begin with. Makes me wonder why religious topics are even allowed here. I'd rather see a bunch of hot girl topics than these, at least with hot girl topics you have some eye candy instead of a bunch of insults.

at least with hot girl topics you have some eye candy instead of a bunch of insults.ad1x2

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]at least with hot girl topics you have some eye candy instead of a bunch of insults.Nuck81

I agree. I love reading these comments because it aspires my own faith. Its good to know and recognize your own doubts or fallacies. You're suppose to wrestle with whatever you believe in. I do fear, though, the residual effect of too many people relying on internet forums like this to get their opinions from. Like this topic, for example: Why does a loving God send people to Hell? There been countless of authors and theologians who been on both sides arguing this topic of hundreds of years, yet people go on OT to discover the answers instead reading an actual book.

[QUOTE="ad1x2"]at least with hot girl topics you have some eye candy instead of a bunch of insults.Nuck81

That was in reference to most religious topics in general, not just this one. Almost every religion topic has at least one or two people in it who either imply or flat out say that only a total moron would be religious (despite Harvard and Yale graduates who are religious) and anybody with intelligence would know that God doesn't exist. It's the main reason a lot of them get locked. I like to have a conversation or a debate but in my short time in OT I've learned that any topic that talks about religion or music that isn't metal is destined to have people come in and belittle others.

cause he doesnt truly forgive herpy derpy derp

umm because he gave us free will and the ability to choose right from wrong while warning us not to do evil acts to each other and he has the right to punish us much like a parent would to his/her children because he is god?

Neo-ganon