Pantheism and Agnostic Theism are better than Atheism

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

most of us dont think about it,and nor care about it

I'll refer to Betrand Russel on this one:

As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one can prove that there is not a God. On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not theHomericgods

most of us dont think about it,and nor care about it

almasdeathchild

My sh!ts are a deity.

I love how all the religious people seem to think their opinion/beliefs >>>>> Ours:lol:TwoFace-BS

I make no claims of any kind of theism as being illogical. I just simply don't believe in god. Nor do I really care what others believe in.

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]

most of us dont think about it,and nor care about it

Engrish_Major

most of us dont think about it,and nor care about it

almasdeathchild

Any reasonable person won't say their claims are 100% true, everything has at least a tiny bit of doubt.

If you refer to the universe, or existence or whatever else as a "deity", the term just loses its meaning.

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

RushKing

I just said in another thread how religious certainty=/=scientific certainty. I don't deal in religious certainty, so I can be certain there is no god because I rely on scientific certainty. If one understands scientific certainty one will understand all the implications in that statement, if one does not understand it then one will probably call me militant.

I like pantheism because it has a sort of intuitive, semi-empirical appeal, but because it is only semi-empirical I cannot profess it as objectively true. I definitely don't like calling the universe a deity, more of an entity. As far as viewing the laws of physics as a deity, from a scientific standpoint it completely sullies scientific study. on a personal level, nothing wrong with it at all.

Illogical does not mean dumb, illogical means not conforming to the rules of logic. Since logic is based on what is known, the existence of god is illogical. Does that mean god does not exist? No, just that it's not logical to think so. This is why I say that faith and logic are two opposed schools, because one deals with what cannot be known and one is based on what can be known.

You're not a dummy if you're a theist, you're only a dummy if you claim that there's objective evidence for the existence of god (unless you have some new information that the rest of the world is not yet privy to).

But the universe and its existance is known, so why can't it be a deity or a part of one? Wheather it can a be a deity or not is subjective, so how can you objectively and completely reject Pantheism?

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

RushKing

its pointless.

why can't i just call my keyboard a Unicorn?

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

RushKing

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

Phaze-Two

its pointless.

why can't i just call my keyboard a Unicorn?

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

its pointless.

why can't i just call my keyboard a Unicorn?

You know objectivly your keyboard isn't a unicorn, but you can't objectivly know wheather or not existance and the universe could be or part of a deity.

RushKing

That comes down to pragmatism for me.

If you are confident in your belief, then why are you so defensive about it? foxhound_fox

But the universe and its existance is known, so why can't it be a deity or a part of one? Wheather it can a be a deity or not is subjective, so how can you objectively and completely reject Pantheism?

RushKing

Becuase I like it.RushKing

What makes one belief better than another? Nobody truly knows what's the right religion is to follow so who are you to say that your is better?

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

But the universe and its existance is known, so why can't it be a deity or a part of one? Wheather it can a be a deity or not is subjective, so how can you objectively and completely reject Pantheism?

Tylendal

But the universe and its existance is known, so why can't it be a deity or a part of one? Wheather it can a be a deity or not is subjective, so how can you objectively and completely reject Pantheism?

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] Once again, Russel's Teapot. It's not a question of "why can I" but more a question of "why shouldn't I". Sure, it's a possibility, but there is nothing to say I should acknowledge the possibility as fact.Tylendal

Athiests claim to know 100%.RushKing

Well then, your not an Athiest. Athiests claim to know 100%.

RushKing

No they don't. They believe there is no God, but I have never met an atheist who claims to know for a fact that there is no God(s).

[QUOTE="RushKing"]Athiests claim to know 100%.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="RushKing"]Athiests claim to know 100%.RushKing

Belief =/= Fact

For example, I believeif I jump out of a building on the tenth story, I will die. But this is not a proven fact, there is still a slim chance I will survive.

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="RushKing"]Athiests claim to know 100%.RushKing

[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"][QUOTE="RushKing"]Athiests claim to know 100%.RushKing

But belief is differnt to knowledge and most religions do claim to "know".

My own agnosticism drives my atheism. If I wasn't agnostic about the truth claims inherent in absolute knowledge, I don't think I'd be interested in atheism.

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="foxhound_fox"] No they don't. Only adolescent atheists rebelling against the beliefs they were brought up in do... because teenagers believe they know everything.redstorm72

Belief =/= Fact

For example, I believeif I jump out of a building on the tenth story, I will die. But this is not a proven fact, there is still a slim chance I will survive.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="RushKing"] Atheism is complete disbelief of a deity or deitys.RushKing

Belief =/= Fact

For example, I believeif I jump out of a building on the tenth story, I will die. But this is not a proven fact, there is still a slim chance I will survive.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

[QUOTE="RushKing"] Atheism is complete disbelief of a deity or deitys.RushKing

Belief =/= Fact

For example, I believeif I jump out of a building on the tenth story, I will die. But this is not a proven fact, there is still a slim chance I will survive.

No, they don't. Where are you getting this information? I don't believe in anyhting "100%" (and nobody should) because there is always a hint of doubt. But as I already stated, belief does not equal fact. If I have enough evidence though, I will act as if something is true (even if I don't "know" it is true).

Back to my example, I realize there is an incredibly small chance I will survive my fall from the tenth story. That doesn't mean I'm going to jump. Same thing with my non-belief in God. I realize there is a small chance that I am wrong, but I have seen absolutely no evidence to disuade me from my lack of belief, so I will continue non-believing.

No intelligent person ever claimed to know God's non-existance as a fact.

[QUOTE="redstorm72"]

Belief =/= Fact

For example, I believeif I jump out of a building on the tenth story, I will die. But this is not a proven fact, there is still a slim chance I will survive.

Atheism is complete disbelief of a deity or deitys.RushKing

[QUOTE="RushKing"]Atheism is complete disbelief of a deity or deitys.foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="Tylendal"][QUOTE="RushKing"] Therefore its illogical for you to believe you have a 100% chance of dieing. Athiests that claim every type of theism is illogical are illogical. I do not claim to know the truth i'm giving my guess/theory.

RushKing

What's logical about theism, please tell me. Tylendal

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]What's logical about theism, please tell me. foxhound_fox

[QUOTE="RushKing"][QUOTE="Tylendal"] What's logical about theism, please tell me. On top of that, you've never actually said why "pantheism and agnostic theism are better than atheism". You've only stated that there is a greater than 0% chance that they're correct, which no one intelligent would ever deny. Still doesn't mean that there's any inherent merit in ascribing to them though.Tylendal

The concept is complete anathema to the scientific method. A "personal experience" is no reason to ignore the relative validity, merits, and harm of something.Tylendal

[QUOTE="Phaze-Two"]

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

How can you claim to be 100% sure there is no deity? Couldn't existence count as a deity? Whats wrong with viewing the universe and it's laws of physics as a deity?

Atheists that claim that every type of theism is illogical and dumb are illogical.

I'm such a big dummy because I'm a theist! :roll:

RushKing

its pointless.

why can't i just call my keyboard a Unicorn?

how do you differentiate them? what is it about the universe that makes it different? and if the universe is part of a deity wouldn't my keyboard be as well? so my keyboard is a unicorn, who happens to be a god as well. that's just as probable as what you're saying.

btw: i feel like it also needs to be mentioned that in order to assign the universe to a god, you would need extraordinary evidence before making a justified claim.

[QUOTE="RushKing"]

[QUOTE="Phaze-Two"]

its pointless.

why can't i just call my keyboard a Unicorn?

how do you differentiate them? what is it about the universe that makes it different? and if the universe is part of a deity wouldn't my keyboard be as well? so my keyboard is a unicorn, who happens to be a god as well. that's just as probable as what you're saying.

btw: i feel like it also needs to be mentioned that in order to assign the universe to a god, you would need extraordinary evidence before making a justified claim.

We're Agnostic Atheist.

Eaisier to just say atheist. Does the clarification of whether we're agnostic or gnostic really matter?