Obama says students with disabilities have a right to play sports

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="MrPraline"]When is Barry Obeyme going to stop pretending to be a "liberal" (classic definition) or "progressive". Instead we get red herring after red herring, all of which always seems to involve banning, regulating or forcing something.jimkabrhel

He's clearly a delusional authoritarian.

He's clearly no different than his predecessors.

He's a bit worse. Obama has a pseudo-socialist mindset that makes his authority more dangerous to what America is supposed to be about.

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"][QUOTE="jimkabrhel"]

He's clearly no different than his predecessors.

hartsickdiscipl

Which is extremely vague and includes no real solutions.

No President gets elected without a slogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippecanoe_and_Tyler_Too

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"] Kinda goes against his whole "Hope and change" campaign spiel.jimkabrhel

Which is extremely vague and includes no real solutions.

No President gets elected without a slogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippecanoe_and_Tyler_Too

Yeah that was lame too.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"] Kinda goes against his whole "Hope and change" campaign spiel.jimkabrhel

Which is extremely vague and includes no real solutions.

No President gets elected without a slogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippecanoe_and_Tyler_Too

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="jim_shorts"] Kinda goes against his whole "Hope and change" campaign spiel.jimkabrhel

Which is extremely vague and includes no real solutions.

No President gets elected without a slogan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippecanoe_and_Tyler_Too

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

Laihendi

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

CongressManStan

[QUOTE="CongressManStan"][QUOTE="Laihendi"]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

Laihendi

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

Laihendi

I would understand not agreeing with this if the disabled athletes in question are put on the team regardless of how they perform, but if they can make the team, why shouldn't they be allowed? I think it's not fair to force them to perform in "special" programs, which are pretty demeaning in my opinion.

Also, what political agenda is the government trying to push? Equality for everyone? Filthy communist. Next thing you know they'll paint the white house red.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

ROFLCOPTER603

I would understand not agreeing with this if the disabled athletes in question are put on the team regardless of how they perform, but if they can make the team, why shouldn't they be allowed? I think it's not fair to force them to perform in "special" programs, which are pretty demeaning in my opinion.

Also, what political agenda is the government trying to push? Equality for everyone? Filthy communist. Next thing you know they'll paint the white house red.

Did you even read the article?

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

This of course completely contradicts the concept of sports being a display of competitive physical athleticism, because the physically disabled are by definition uncompetitive with regards to physical athleticism. Next Obama will likely be saying that the mentally disabled have a right to participate in math and debate teams.

Obviously the disabled should be able to organize and come up with alternative athletic activities for them to participate in, but they shouldn't be used as a tool to undermine competitiveness for those who aren't inhibited by physical disabilities. This is just another example of the government using public schools to push a political agenda.

hartsickdiscipl

I would understand not agreeing with this if the disabled athletes in question are put on the team regardless of how they perform, but if they can make the team, why shouldn't they be allowed? I think it's not fair to force them to perform in "special" programs, which are pretty demeaning in my opinion.

Also, what political agenda is the government trying to push? Equality for everyone? Filthy communist. Next thing you know they'll paint the white house red.

Did you even read the article?

Yes, I did. The rule changes they made weren't game breaking. Making an opponent always touch his competitor because he can't see? Giving kids insulin? It's one thing if they have an armless kid play baseball, it's another to make tiny changes that don't affect others but allow the disabled person to compete.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

I would understand not agreeing with this if the disabled athletes in question are put on the team regardless of how they perform, but if they can make the team, why shouldn't they be allowed? I think it's not fair to force them to perform in "special" programs, which are pretty demeaning in my opinion.

Also, what political agenda is the government trying to push? Equality for everyone? Filthy communist. Next thing you know they'll paint the white house red.

ROFLCOPTER603

Did you even read the article?

Yes, I did. The rule changes they made weren't game breaking. Making an opponent always touch his competitor because he can't see? Giving kids insulin? It's one thing if they have an armless kid play baseball, it's another to make tiny changes that don't affect others but allow the disabled person to compete.

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Did you even read the article?

Laihendi

Yes, I did. The rule changes they made weren't game breaking. Making an opponent always touch his competitor because he can't see? Giving kids insulin? It's one thing if they have an armless kid play baseball, it's another to make tiny changes that don't affect others but allow the disabled person to compete.

Well what are these "clear" negative effects? There's no way that you can say that the insulin thing is an advantage (unless the kid does it to call extra time outs), and as for the always touching rule I think that it would happen anyways in a wrestling match, but if the kid knows his opponent is blind he's just going to stay away and sneak up on him, which isn't fair.

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.

And he also thinks community organizers can be President (but only if they're black.)

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.

And he also thinks community organizers can be President (but only if they're black.)

ZombieKiller7

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.ZombieKiller7

They can be.

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Yes, I did. The rule changes they made weren't game breaking. Making an opponent always touch his competitor because he can't see? Giving kids insulin? It's one thing if they have an armless kid play baseball, it's another to make tiny changes that don't affect others but allow the disabled person to compete.

ROFLCOPTER603

Well what are these "clear" negative effects? There's no way that you can say that the insulin thing is an advantage (unless the kid does it to call extra time outs), and as for the always touching rule I think that it would happen anyways in a wrestling match, but if the kid knows his opponent is blind he's just going to stay away and sneak up on him, which isn't fair.

In wrestling, who initiates contact can dictate who has the advantage when grappling.

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.

ZombieKiller7

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.

Aljosa23

Not for his whole career

[QUOTE="Aljosa23"]

[QUOTE="ZombieKiller7"]

I heard Obama says blind people can be artists.

hartsickdiscipl

Not for his whole career

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] Clearly these changes do effect how others play the sports, since the whole point of the changes are to keep people from doing certain things so that the disabled can participate in the sports too.

hartsickdiscipl

Well what are these "clear" negative effects? There's no way that you can say that the insulin thing is an advantage (unless the kid does it to call extra time outs), and as for the always touching rule I think that it would happen anyways in a wrestling match, but if the kid knows his opponent is blind he's just going to stay away and sneak up on him, which isn't fair.

In wrestling, who initiates contact can dictate who has the advantage when grappling.

So if they start in contact before the match wouldn't they be even? I doubt that the blind kid gets to choose how he starts the match.

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

JDWolfie

The article does not say that at all.

[QUOTE="JDWolfie"]

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

worlock77

The article does not say that at all.

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

Well what are these "clear" negative effects? There's no way that you can say that the insulin thing is an advantage (unless the kid does it to call extra time outs), and as for the always touching rule I think that it would happen anyways in a wrestling match, but if the kid knows his opponent is blind he's just going to stay away and sneak up on him, which isn't fair.

ROFLCOPTER603

In wrestling, who initiates contact can dictate who has the advantage when grappling.

So if they start in contact before the match wouldn't they be even? I doubt that the blind kid gets to choose how he starts the match.

A wrestling match isn't just one continuous event where the wrestlers start facing each other until the match is over. If you knew anything about the sport, you'd know why it's an issue.

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

JDWolfie

Next we'll be limiting how high people can jump so that the guy in a wheelchair can get a rebound.

[QUOTE="JDWolfie"]

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

hartsickdiscipl

Next we'll be limiting how high people can jump so that the guy in a wheelchair can get a rebound.

[QUOTE="ROFLCOPTER603"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

In wrestling, who initiates contact can dictate who has the advantage when grappling.

hartsickdiscipl

So if they start in contact before the match wouldn't they be even? I doubt that the blind kid gets to choose how he starts the match.

A wrestling match isn't just one continuous event where the wrestlers start facing each other until the match is over. If you knew anything about the sport, you'd know why it's an issue.

I still don't get how it undermines the other player?

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

[QUOTE="JDWolfie"]

I aee this opening a can of worms. So if one student in a wheelchair wants to play basketball, the school has to open up a program for the student? Schools will shut down their sports programs altogether to meet the needs of a few.

Rich3232

Next we'll be limiting how high people can jump so that the guy in a wheelchair can get a rebound.

[QUOTE="Rich3232"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Next we'll be limiting how high people can jump so that the guy in a wheelchair can get a rebound.

Laihendi

In what f*cking way is he doing that?

The idiot that is the TC confuses equality of access with equality of outcome.

Not surprisingly TC's threads always have the common denominator of idiocy.

SUD123456

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

Laihendi

I expect you t come back every year for 20 to give me an update on how Obama ruined sports

[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/students-disabilities-school-sports-obama_n_2546057.html?utm_hp_ref=impact&ir=Impact

And the liberal mainstream media acts like he is a heroic social progressive for doing so.

NEWMAHAY

I expect you t come back every year for 20 to give me an update on how Obama ruined sports

I agree, that one guy with the prostectic leg competed in the Summer Olympics remember and did very well

I agree, that one guy with the prostectic leg competed in the Summer Olympics remember and did very well

lonewolfman10

That was fine.  They didn't alter the event to accommodate him.  

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Then let's see it. I want to see one woman make it in the NFL for more than a season playing a position other than kicker or punter.

worlock77

And that won't change precisely because of mindsets like hartsick's.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Culture of the sport doesn't allow it.:|Rhazakna

And that won't change precisely because of mindsets like hartsick's.

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

And that won't change precisely because of mindsets like hartsick's.

worlock77

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] Abject nonsense. The players in the NFL, NBA etc. are the best in the world. The worst player in those leagues is still one of the most elite on the planet. You can find women who can play sports better than most men, but you can't find women who can play at the level of the most elite in the world. There is no evidence for this whatsoever, and the only reason you believe this is PC horsesh*t about equality. Please show one shred of evidence for this that doesn't appeal to something completely unfalsifiable.Rhazakna

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

Certainly. There are, however, exceptions to every rule, but I doubt such exceptions would even be considered for a chance to show they could compete. (And frankly, you can drop the "PC" bit, as I'm anything but.)

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

And that won't change precisely because of mindsets like hartsick's.

worlock77

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

No, we DO know that elite female athletes cannot compete with elite male athletes.  All you have to do is watch a track and field event to know that.  If you deny this, you're either blind or lying to yourself.  

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"] Abject nonsense. The players in the NFL, NBA etc. are the best in the world. The worst player in those leagues is still one of the most elite on the planet. You can find women who can play sports better than most men, but you can't find women who can play at the level of the most elite in the world. There is no evidence for this whatsoever, and the only reason you believe this is PC horsesh*t about equality. Please show one shred of evidence for this that doesn't appeal to something completely unfalsifiable.Rhazakna

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

Ace6301

Even if it's not the "sole reason," it's a good enough reason.  It's the only one needed.  Women can't compete at that level.  If a woman showed up at an NFL training camp and kicked ass, she'd make the team.  It's not going to happen though.  

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

worlock77

Certainly. There are, however, exceptions to every rule, but I doubt such exceptions would even be considered for a chance to show they could compete. (And frankly, you can drop the "PC" bit, as I'm anything but.)

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

I'm not saying necessarily that women could compete at that level. Maybe some could, maybe not. We'll never know ether way however, because of the cultural mindset that surrounds these sports.

Ace6301

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] There was previously a cultural mindset that women shouldn't vote. I very much doubt you'd argue that cultural mindset emerged out of a biological truth about women being less competent at politics than men. There is still huge stigma toward women joining sports teams at the lower level and while they are, according to the rules, allowed in to the professional level in the same competition with the men you may notice the stigma toward women in sports is still very much present. To say that the difference in average physique is the sole reason for this culture of the sport is flat out wrong. Ace6301

There's no "stigma" against women playing physical sports. I'd say that western culture at least has progressed to the point where it's accepted that women play sports. The problem is that they physically cannot compete with male athletes. A woman is never going to join the NFL because women just don't naturally get that big. If a woman joined, even at the peak of fitness, she's going to get crushed, or at the very least not be able to compare to the average male football player. The same goes for pretty much all physical sports. As for the second bolded point, women don't try out because they can not compare to the male athletes. It has nothing to do with "the culture of sports". Like someone already said, a woman athlete who could perform well would be a money maker. Owners of sports teams aren't being sexist, they're being pragmatic.

Even the best WNBA player couldn't compete in the NBA.  Just look at the speed of the game and how physical it is.  This is true to an even greater extent in the NFL.  

I work on construction sites where there are a few women.  Not even the most delusional ones would attempt to do some of the work that I do.  

[QUOTE="Rhazakna"][QUOTE="Ace6301"] To be successful you have to have been given a chance in the first place. As I said while at the pro level it's generally fair game to play that is not true down the ladder. There's also still a massive stigma that women should play less physical sports which obviously is going to reduce the amount of candidates for the elite. Men do indeed have a natural advantage. However it hasn't even been 100 years since women were allowed to compete at all in most sports and it's only been 40 years since women were actually taken seriously in anyway in sports, even at a low level. I'm not saying I expect teams to be 50/50, that simply won't happen. However if the culture of sports were more accepting of the women who have the potential to compete I think we'd see more trying out for the same level as current elite sports. Ace6301

Nobody could point at women and say, "See how the vote!  They shouldn't be allowed to.  Clearly they can't do it!"

We can look at female athletes play sports and know that they can not compete with high-level male athletes.  That's why your analogy was so bad.