http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16052281
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-08/18/c_131058947.htm
Egypt can't control the Sinai..who would've thought?
Multiple terrorist attacks in Israel; use RPG's and mortars. Seven dead.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
Elaborate my friend.Didnt you post this last week canned?
tenaka2
"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
Wasdie
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
CannedWorms
Good description of the 'circle of violence'.
Thank god the internal pressure in the U.S. is forcing the government to no longer condone the crimes against humanity Israel are guilty off. Hopefully the U.S. will cut off funding soon.
Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
Wasdie
So they would act like the US?
waits for isreak to commence massive bombing runs causing loads of collatiral damage... Then watch the world do nothing about it. Multiple accusation that Hezbullah is behiend the attacks ( including th shot up bus) wonder what's gonna happen next....another invasion of lebanon?mayceVI think Israel will simply hit back harder at militants in Gaza. They will also speed up the building of a fence along the Egypt-Israel border. And I wouldn't be surprised if Hezbollah was behind the attacks, they're desperate for another war (a few weeks ago they shot at the IDF at the Israel-Lebanon border). Their puppet master Iran wants a shadow war with Israel. Soon we will see Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria attack Israel to take the heat off Assad.
[QUOTE="Wasdie"]"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
CannedWorms
Obviously it doesn't always work for Israel, since well, it's something they've always had to do. Tsk tsk. (;
"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
tenaka2
Good description of the 'circle of violence'.
Thank god the internal pressure in the U.S. is forcing the government to no longer condone the crimes against humanity Israel are guilty off. Hopefully the U.S. will cut off funding soon.
So are you going to explain how I posted this news last week even though it only happened a few hours ago? And I don't think Israel will care that much if America cuts funding, if anything the US has more to lose seeing as how they will less influence over Israel-Middle East affairs as well as not being able to share Israeli's technology expertise (see: Iron Dome)."Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]
Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
BiancaDK
Obviously it doesn't always work for Israel, since well, it's something they've always had to do. Tsk tsk. (;
They always come out fine in the end though. Something you hate to see. (;Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks. ...they did so by killing/injuring thousands of civilians in Gaza, or in Jenin where there was a massacre, ok they may get things done...to a certian extent ( rockets are still being fired by freelance terorists from gaza) But they have no care for how it gets done or how disporportional thier response Is to the threat. of the 200 rockets that launched from gaza before cast lead VERY few isrealis were killed or injured. Yet they went in as though all the world was going to end and bombed everything and litterally made it so that gaza was cripple in every way imagineable. Almost all the livestock was killed in gaza durring cast lead, 85% of the farmland 1400 civilians were killed in 2 weeks over 6000 were injured the entire sewage system of Gaza was annihlated, Red cross was no allowed in 59 heath care facilities were hit 2 by white phosphrus, schools, and 600 or so building were destroyed, 8 health personnel were killed. and yet nothing was accomplished. in the case of jenin the took control of the City yet terroristism hasn't stopped so yet agian nothing accomplished really maybe its lessened in the case of jenin but all in all Isreal hasn't made any progress since 06 other than kill thousands of palestinians.[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.CannedWorms
Good description of the 'circle of violence'.
Thank god the internal pressure in the U.S. is forcing the government to no longer condone the crimes against humanity Israel are guilty off. Hopefully the U.S. will cut off funding soon.
So are you going to explain how I posted this news last week even though it only happened a few hours ago? And I don't think Israel will care that much if America cuts funding, if anything the US has more to lose seeing as how they will less influence over Israel-Middle East affairs as well as not being able to share Israeli's technology expertise (see: Iron Dome).My apologies, its an easy mistake to make your post are all very very similiar.
I think Israel will simply hit back harder at militants in Gaza. They will also speed up the building of a fence along the Egypt-Israel border. And I wouldn't be surprised if Hezbollah was behind the attacks, they're desperate for another war (a few weeks ago they shot at the IDF at the Israel-Lebanon border). Their puppet master Iran wants a shadow war with Israel. Soon we will see Hamas, Hezbollah and Syria attack Israel to take the heat off Assad. hat is not a good thing. you seem to think that Isreal constantly bombing Gaza is a soultion all it does is worsen thier crimes against humanity and get all their niehghbors pissed off. Nothing is achieved then there's isreals reluctance to make any kind of recognition that the palestian territories are anything other than land to be colonized. The seperation wall is Illeagal the settlements are detrimental to the peace process that already has a leg in the grave. Isreal is making it very difficult to come to any form of peace as shown by the palestine papers. Isreal is digging a hole that pretty soon even the US can't help it out of.[QUOTE="mayceV"]waits for isreak to commence massive bombing runs causing loads of collatiral damage... Then watch the world do nothing about it. Multiple accusation that Hezbullah is behiend the attacks ( including th shot up bus) wonder what's gonna happen next....another invasion of lebanon?CannedWorms
Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks. ...they did so by killing/injuring thousands of civilians in Gaza, or in Jenin where there was a massacre, ok they may get things done...to a certian extent ( rockets are still being fired by freelance terorists from gaza) But they have no care for how it gets done or how disporportional thier response Is to the threat. of the 200 rockets that launched from gaza before cast lead VERY few isrealis were killed or injured. Yet they went in as though all the world was going to end and bombed everything and litterally made it so that gaza was cripple in every way imagineable. Almost all the livestock was killed in gaza durring cast lead, 85% of the farmland 1400 civilians were killed in 2 weeks over 6000 were injured the entire sewage system of Gaza was annihlated, Red cross was no allowed in 59 heath care facilities were hit 2 by white phosphrus, schools, and 600 or so building were destroyed, 8 health personnel were killed. and yet nothing was accomplished. in the case of jenin the took control of the City yet terroristism hasn't stopped so yet agian nothing accomplished really maybe its lessened in the case of jenin but all in all Isreal hasn't made any progress since 06 other than kill thousands of palestinians.200? No... 2001: 4 2002: 35 2003: 155 2004: 281 2005: 179 2006: 946 2007: 896 And 21 people were killed..not to mention the countless time Israeli's were forced into bomb shelters. Cast Lead helped put an end to that. If Israel didn't respond Hamas would think they could get with it. BUT after Cast Lead they were forced into stopping rocket attacks as they were desperate to avoid another war with Israel. They even had to discipline splinter groups..something that was previously unheard of. So yes Israel accomplished what they intended.[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="Wasdie"]"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks. ...they did so by killing/injuring thousands of civilians in Gaza, or in Jenin where there was a massacre, ok they may get things done...to a certian extent ( rockets are still being fired by freelance terorists from gaza) But they have no care for how it gets done or how disporportional thier response Is to the threat. of the 200 rockets that launched from gaza before cast lead VERY few isrealis were killed or injured. Yet they went in as though all the world was going to end and bombed everything and litterally made it so that gaza was cripple in every way imagineable. Almost all the livestock was killed in gaza durring cast lead, 85% of the farmland 1400 civilians were killed in 2 weeks over 6000 were injured the entire sewage system of Gaza was annihlated, Red cross was no allowed in 59 heath care facilities were hit 2 by white phosphrus, schools, and 600 or so building were destroyed, 8 health personnel were killed. and yet nothing was accomplished. in the case of jenin the took control of the City yet terroristism hasn't stopped so yet agian nothing accomplished really maybe its lessened in the case of jenin but all in all Isreal hasn't made any progress since 06 other than kill thousands of palestinians. Does it really matter if only one was killed by rockets from gaza and thousands killed by retaliation from Israel? Just because the initiation was not effective does not mean the retaliation should follow like a domino. They have made it clear that they hold the same mentality as those who want them culled. Just that Israel seems to be much better at making every attack do as much as possible.Watch Israel's response be massive and leads to tons of collateral damage without actually achieving their goal thus breeding more terrorists. You think they would have learned by now.
mayceV
[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="CannedWorms"]"Without achieving their goal"...actually, Israel has a very good ratio at "achieving their goals". Responding to attacks with an offensive always works for Israel. It lets their enemies know who that they can't win. See: a halt in 10+ years of rocket attacks from Gaza after Cast Lead. If they didn't do anything then their enemies would think they could get away with anything and thus more attacks.CannedWorms...they did so by killing/injuring thousands of civilians in Gaza, or in Jenin where there was a massacre, ok they may get things done...to a certian extent ( rockets are still being fired by freelance terorists from gaza) But they have no care for how it gets done or how disporportional thier response Is to the threat. of the 200 rockets that launched from gaza before cast lead VERY few isrealis were killed or injured. Yet they went in as though all the world was going to end and bombed everything and litterally made it so that gaza was cripple in every way imagineable. Almost all the livestock was killed in gaza durring cast lead, 85% of the farmland 1400 civilians were killed in 2 weeks over 6000 were injured the entire sewage system of Gaza was annihlated, Red cross was no allowed in 59 heath care facilities were hit 2 by white phosphrus, schools, and 600 or so building were destroyed, 8 health personnel were killed. and yet nothing was accomplished. in the case of jenin the took control of the City yet terroristism hasn't stopped so yet agian nothing accomplished really maybe its lessened in the case of jenin but all in all Isreal hasn't made any progress since 06 other than kill thousands of palestinians.200? No... 2001: 4 2002: 35 2003: 155 2004: 281 2005: 179 2006: 946 2007: 896 And 21 people were killed..not to mention the countless time Israeli's were forced into bomb shelters. Cast Lead helped put an end to that. If Israel didn't respond Hamas would think they could get with it. BUT after Cast Lead they were forced into stopping rocket attacks as they were desperate to avoid another war with Israel. They even had to discipline splinter groups..something that was previously unheard of. So yes Israel accomplished what they intended. so because 21 people were killed and the couple thousand (if even that) forcced into bomb shelters you say Isreal had the right to drop hundreds of bombs on civilians? health care facilities? really? come on now I can accept isreal defending itself that is perfectly reasonable. However the way theydo it is illeagal and immoral. Now what do you say to the massacre in jenin? what is the justification there?
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]They always come out fine in the end though. Something you hate to see. (;BiancaDK
Fine in the end eh? Tell that to the 7 dead jews. : D
Shows you up for the person you truely are. And if I was going to respond with an actual reply..then you are thinking small-scale. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see which country is the more fruitful despite what it's up against. (;So are you going to explain how I posted this news last week even though it only happened a few hours ago? And I don't think Israel will care that much if America cuts funding, if anything the US has more to lose seeing as how they will less influence over Israel-Middle East affairs as well as not being able to share Israeli's technology expertise (see: Iron Dome).[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]
[QUOTE="tenaka2"]
Good description of the 'circle of violence'.
Thank god the internal pressure in the U.S. is forcing the government to no longer condone the crimes against humanity Israel are guilty off. Hopefully the U.S. will cut off funding soon.
tenaka2
My apologies, its an easy mistake to make your post are all very very similiar.
Oh, that was intended to be a joke? Leave it to the professionals is my advice. And I could say the same to you..[QUOTE="BiancaDK"][QUOTE="CannedWorms"]They always come out fine in the end though. Something you hate to see. (;CannedWorms
Fine in the end eh? Tell that to the 7 dead jews. : D
Shows you up for the person you truely are. And if I was going to respond with an actual reply..then you are thinking small-scale. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see which country is the more fruitful despite what it's up against. (;Person you are? Every single thread you post is pro-isreal anti-arab and for the most part condoning anything and everything israel does.
You show extreme bias and before you accuse anyone of anything you should have alook at your post history, in my opinion.
You in the end when the ameircan empire goes broke will spell the end of the last euro-trash colony.
Person you are? Every single thread you post is pro-isreal anti-arab and for the most part condoning anything and everything israel does.Give me one example where I've said something as distasteful as that? Exactly, you can't.You show extreme bias and before you accuse anyone of anything you should have alook at your post history, in my opinion.
tenaka2
Keep dreaming..You in the end when the ameircan empire goes broke will spell the end of the last euro-trash colony.
EasyStreet
Why is this thread filled with more personal attacks from other thread's debates than the content of links in the OP? CreasianDevailiI'm guessing its a more personal thing to the TC, I'm waitting for a reply. Also its funny, I'm thinking about showing him how his weekly "palestinians hamas and PLO are all evil" threads can go both ways, over here I'm plagued with news about Isreal bombing tunnels and what not killing 5 or so civilains every few days. Just recently actually Isreal dropped bombs and killed a man and injured 3, a week or so prior to that they killed another two bombing, and opened fire on protestors not even a week ago killing 6. strangley enough all of these are ignored and chpped up to collateral damage. Many people are willing to recognize Isreal has even more blood on thier hands than the infamous hamas and hezbullah do.
[QUOTE="EasyStreet"]Keep dreaming.. You might keep dreaming as well.You in the end when the ameircan empire goes broke will spell the end of the last euro-trash colony.
CannedWorms
[QUOTE="mayceV"] so because 21 people were killed and the couple thousand (if even that) forcced into bomb shelters you say Isreal had the right to drop hundreds of bombs on civilians? health care facilities? really? come on now I can accept isreal defending itself that is perfectly reasonable. However the way theydo it is illeagal and immoral. Now what do you say to the massacre in jenin? what is the justification there?CannedWormsLet me make one thing clear: I don't justify the death of civilians. All I'm saying is Israel obviously done something right if it stopped the end of countless rockets and it taught Hamas a huge lesson. As for Jenin, well again I'm not condoning civilians being killed but again Israeli was responding to attacks and it seems as though they again got to the root of the problem. So why do you blindly defend Isreal to the death? do you atleast admit that they have lots of blood on thier hands? .
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="EasyStreet"]Keep dreaming.. You might keep dreaming as well.I don't need to dream though, that's the difference. You're presumption is grounded on no facts. Israel is here to stay, with or without America's $.You in the end when the ameircan empire goes broke will spell the end of the last euro-trash colony.
EasyStreet
Ok, thanks for your input.You in the end when the ameircan empire goes broke will spell the end of the last euro-trash colony.
EasyStreet
[QUOTE="BiancaDK"][QUOTE="CannedWorms"]They always come out fine in the end though. Something you hate to see. (;CannedWorms
Fine in the end eh? Tell that to the 7 dead jews. : D
Shows you up for the person you truely are. And if I was going to respond with an actual reply..then you are thinking small-scale. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see which country is the more fruitful despite what it's up against. (;I love how you respond with incoherent zealous pro-israel babble whenever the validity of your propaganda is rendered void. (:
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="mayceV"] so because 21 people were killed and the couple thousand (if even that) forcced into bomb shelters you say Isreal had the right to drop hundreds of bombs on civilians? health care facilities? really? come on now I can accept isreal defending itself that is perfectly reasonable. However the way theydo it is illeagal and immoral. Now what do you say to the massacre in jenin? what is the justification there?mayceVLet me make one thing clear: I don't justify the death of civilians. All I'm saying is Israel obviously done something right if it stopped the end of countless rockets and it taught Hamas a huge lesson. As for Jenin, well again I'm not condoning civilians being killed but again Israeli was responding to attacks and it seems as though they again got to the root of the problem. So why do you blindly defend Isreal to the death? do you atleast admit that they have lots of blood on thier hands? . I will admit they have sometimes used excessive force when it was unnecessary, and a two-state solution is better than a one-state solution (for everyone involved).
Give me one example where I've said something as distasteful as that? Exactly, you can't.[QUOTE="tenaka2"]Person you are? Every single thread you post is pro-isreal anti-arab and for the most part condoning anything and everything israel does.
You show extreme bias and before you accuse anyone of anything you should have alook at your post history, in my opinion.
CannedWorms
I can! : D Pick me, pick me!
[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]Why is this thread filled with more personal attacks from other thread's debates than the content of links in the OP? mayceVI'm guessing its a more personal thing to the TC, I'm waitting for a reply. Also its funny, I'm thinking about showing him how his weekly "palestinians hamas and PLO are all evil" threads can go both ways, over here I'm plagued with news about Isreal bombing tunnels and what not killing 5 or so civilains every few days. Just recently actually Isreal dropped bombs and killed a man and injured 3, a week or so prior to that they killed another two bombing, and opened fire on protestors not even a week ago killing 6. strangley enough all of these are ignored and chpped up to collateral damage. Many people are willing to recognize Isreal has even more blood on thier hands than the infamous hamas and hezbullah do. I sadly say that is a part of the bigger issue of people holding entire countries abroad totally responsible and for any and all military or harmful humanitarian efforts by default. I think in general the people without rockets or munitions are the ones who would really like for it all to stop from all sides. However I would also account that hamas or hezbullah are equal to the IDF in goals. The effects from them all are not equal, but that does not mean that the lesser bloody hand is only covered in less blood due to lack of equal resources. Least that is my view. Which also leads me to the maybe biased assumption that none of this will ever stop.
Shows you up for the person you truely are. And if I was going to respond with an actual reply..then you are thinking small-scale. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see which country is the more fruitful despite what it's up against. (;[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="BiancaDK"]
Fine in the end eh? Tell that to the 7 dead jews. : D
BiancaDK
I love how you respond with incoherent zealous pro-israel babble whenever the validity of your propaganda is rendered void. (:
It's no problem..but I only do that when I feel the need to retaliate to the delusional extreme left-wing wet-dream of something bad happening to Israel. (;[QUOTE="BiancaDK"][QUOTE="CannedWorms"]Shows you up for the person you truely are. And if I was going to respond with an actual reply..then you are thinking small-scale. Look at the bigger picture and you'll see which country is the more fruitful despite what it's up against. (;CannedWorms
I love how you respond with incoherent zealous pro-israel babble whenever the validity of your propaganda is rendered void. (:
It's no problem..but I only do that when I feel the need to retaliate to the delusional extreme left-wing wet-dream of something bad happening to Israel. (;I love how you respond with incoherent zealous pro-israel babble whenever the validity of your propaganda is rendered void. (:
It's no problem..but I only do that when I feel the need to retaliate to the delusional extreme left-wing wet-dream of something bad happening to Israel. (;CannedWorms
Your rampant delusion has a pretty nifty self-defence mechanism, gotta' hand it to ya' : D
[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]Why is this thread filled with more personal attacks from other thread's debates than the content of links in the OP? CreasianDevailiI'm guessing its a more personal thing to the TC, I'm waitting for a reply. Also its funny, I'm thinking about showing him how his weekly "palestinians hamas and PLO are all evil" threads can go both ways, over here I'm plagued with news about Isreal bombing tunnels and what not killing 5 or so civilains every few days. Just recently actually Isreal dropped bombs and killed a man and injured 3, a week or so prior to that they killed another two bombing, and opened fire on protestors not even a week ago killing 6. strangley enough all of these are ignored and chpped up to collateral damage. Many people are willing to recognize Isreal has even more blood on thier hands than the infamous hamas and hezbullah do. I sadly say that is a part of the bigger issue of people holding entire countries abroad totally responsible and for any and all military or harmful humanitarian efforts by default. I think in general the people without rockets or munitions are the ones who would really like for it all to stop from all sides. However I would also account that haman or hezbullah are equal to the IDF in goals. The effects from them all are not equal, but that does not mean that the lesser bloody hand is only covered in less blood due to lack of equal resources. Least that is my view. Which also leads me to the maybe biased assumption that none of this will ever stop. until Isreal is ready to actually bring a reasonable negotiation to the table nothing will ever progress, The first thing they need to do is stop settlement expansion. over 200 houses were green lit in settlements. How can you reasonably negotiate when one side is already helping themselves to the land you're negotiating?
Sorry but uhhh if you support any military opperation like cast lead or what happened in Jenin simply due to the results, makes It hard to believe you dettest the killing of civilians jenin was a straigh up massacre nothing more nothing less, sure they killed 40 hamas officials however they killed so many civilains and destroyed the entire refugee camp and blew down houses knowing people were inside. don't believe the isreali hed count look at 3rd party ones such as.. the name escapes me but it was a british NGO that re affirmed that Jenin was indeed a massacre. So if you're against killing civilians then you should be horrified at isreal's responses to threats.mayceVI support the reasoning behind the operations but not the 'collateral damage'. Two different things. I always look at '3rd party" sources, in that the figures I posted was from a third party source (Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center).
5 dead? That's nothing. In Detroit we call that "breakfast".
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"]It's no problem..but I only do that when I feel the need to retaliate to the delusional extreme left-wing wet-dream of something bad happening to Israel. (;BiancaDK
Your rampant delusion has a pretty nifty self-defence mechanism, gotta' hand it to ya' : D
Delusion..me? Nah. Self-defence? Maybe. (:[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"][QUOTE="mayceV"] I'm guessing its a more personal thing to the TC, I'm waitting for a reply. Also its funny, I'm thinking about showing him how his weekly "palestinians hamas and PLO are all evil" threads can go both ways, over here I'm plagued with news about Isreal bombing tunnels and what not killing 5 or so civilains every few days. Just recently actually Isreal dropped bombs and killed a man and injured 3, a week or so prior to that they killed another two bombing, and opened fire on protestors not even a week ago killing 6. strangley enough all of these are ignored and chpped up to collateral damage. Many people are willing to recognize Isreal has even more blood on thier hands than the infamous hamas and hezbullah do.mayceVI sadly say that is a part of the bigger issue of people holding entire countries abroad totally responsible and for any and all military or harmful humanitarian efforts by default. I think in general the people without rockets or munitions are the ones who would really like for it all to stop from all sides. However I would also account that haman or hezbullah are equal to the IDF in goals. The effects from them all are not equal, but that does not mean that the lesser bloody hand is only covered in less blood due to lack of equal resources. Least that is my view. Which also leads me to the maybe biased assumption that none of this will ever stop. until Isreal is ready to actually bring a reasonable negotiation to the table nothing will ever progress, The first thing they need to do is stop settlement expansion. over 200 houses were green lit in settlements. How can you reasonably negotiate when one side is already helping themselves to the land you're negotiating? So on the terms of pure goverment standings you do not think that all the sides do not have too much blood on their hands to shake and actually trust each other? Also that even if say hamas and Israel both did a genuine proceedings, that there isn't enough bad blood on both sides for an outside influence to easily refuel the fire? That is the problem. I do not think the sides are "ever" ready to talk genuine peace when all sides are. It seems when a hand there is extended it is bitten. Vice versa as well. For that.. there is blame but it is on both sides. But blame will not keep people from getting killed on both sides either who have never raised a weapon to the other.
[QUOTE="mayceV"]Sorry but uhhh if you support any military opperation like cast lead or what happened in Jenin simply due to the results, makes It hard to believe you dettest the killing of civilians jenin was a straigh up massacre nothing more nothing less, sure they killed 40 hamas officials however they killed so many civilains and destroyed the entire refugee camp and blew down houses knowing people were inside. don't believe the isreali hed count look at 3rd party ones such as.. the name escapes me but it was a british NGO that re affirmed that Jenin was indeed a massacre. So if you're against killing civilians then you should be horrified at isreal's responses to threats.CannedWormsI support the reasoning behind the operations but not the 'collateral damage'. Two different things. I always look at '3rd party" sources, in that the figures I posted was from a third party source (Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center). so you support the sentence" lets stop the terrorists."? good so do I and I'm pretty sure everyone in the world would. its the actions that are being argued and Isreal Isn't exactly a clean white lamb.Ok nice isreal wants to keep its state from being isolated overrun and what not, then hurry up and start the negotiation... the PLO stated if isreal was to halt settlement expansion then negotiations would be possible. but no it took half the world to pressure the PLO to go into negotiations ( currently overseen by tony blair I think) to negotiate with Isreal even if isreal is already helping themselves to what's being negotiated. these negotiations overseen by tony blair aren't even getting anywhere. After 20 years of failed negotiations I'm suprised the PLO didn't give up on ever comeing up with an agreement with isreal. Isreal is holding up everything and prolonging this occupation for God knows what reason. Not the PLO, Not hamas or extremists but isreal themselves, If they are willing to recognize that palestinians are indeed human beings then the problem is solved.
until Isreal is ready to actually bring a reasonable negotiation to the table nothing will ever progress, The first thing they need to do is stop settlement expansion. over 200 houses were green lit in settlements. How can you reasonably negotiate when one side is already helping themselves to the land you're negotiating? So on the terms of pure goverment standings you do not think that all the sides do not have too much blood on their hands to shake and actually trust each other? Also that even if say hamas and Israel both did a genuine proceedings, that there isn't enough bad blood on both sides for an outside influence to easily refuel the fire? That is the problem. I do not think the sides are "ever" ready to talk genuine peace when all sides are. It seems when a hand there is extended it is bitten. Vice versa as well. For that.. there is blame but it is on both sides. But blame will not keep people from getting killed on both sides either who have never raised a weapon to the other. I agree though, both sides are to blame and honestly I'm not even sure the PLO are really qualified to be the representitive ofthe palestian people. I mean if anything the PA have just shown that all they want is to create a little stat called palestine and were prepared at one point to give up East jeruslem, most of the west bank to do it. I'm not even sure I'd trust the PLO enough to do something in favor of the people or even solve any of the problems in the territories...atleast until i see how sept. 20th goes and what the PLO plans to do in terms of right of return and East Jeruslem.[QUOTE="mayceV"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] I sadly say that is a part of the bigger issue of people holding entire countries abroad totally responsible and for any and all military or harmful humanitarian efforts by default. I think in general the people without rockets or munitions are the ones who would really like for it all to stop from all sides. However I would also account that haman or hezbullah are equal to the IDF in goals. The effects from them all are not equal, but that does not mean that the lesser bloody hand is only covered in less blood due to lack of equal resources. Least that is my view. Which also leads me to the maybe biased assumption that none of this will ever stop. CreasianDevaili
[QUOTE="CannedWorms"][QUOTE="mayceV"]Sorry but uhhh if you support any military opperation like cast lead or what happened in Jenin simply due to the results, makes It hard to believe you dettest the killing of civilians jenin was a straigh up massacre nothing more nothing less, sure they killed 40 hamas officials however they killed so many civilains and destroyed the entire refugee camp and blew down houses knowing people were inside. don't believe the isreali hed count look at 3rd party ones such as.. the name escapes me but it was a british NGO that re affirmed that Jenin was indeed a massacre. So if you're against killing civilians then you should be horrified at isreal's responses to threats.mayceVI support the reasoning behind the operations but not the 'collateral damage'. Two different things. I always look at '3rd party" sources, in that the figures I posted was from a third party source (Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center). so you support the sentence" lets stop the terrorists."? good so do I and I'm pretty sure everyone in the world would. its the actions that are being argued and Isreal Isn't exactly a clean white lamb.Ok nice isreal wants to keep its state from being isolated overrun and what not, then hurry up and start the negotiation... the PLO stated if isreal was to halt settlement expansion then negotiations would be possible. but no it took half the world to pressure the PLO to go into negotiations ( currently overseen by tony blair I think) to negotiate with Isreal even if isreal is already helping themselves to what's being negotiated. these negotiations overseen by tony blair aren't even getting anywhere. After 20 years of failed negotiations I'm suprised the PLO didn't give up on ever comeing up with an agreement with isreal. Isreal is holding up everything and prolonging this occupation for God knows what reason. Not the PLO, Not hamas or extremists but isreal themselves, If they are willing to recognize that palestinians are indeed human beings then the problem is solved. Yes I do. And judging by your post I'm not sure you're aware that negotiations are DEFINITELY over. The PLO are going to the UN in September to get unilateral recognition of Palestine. And the only reason they are "prolonging the occupation" is because they don't want to give up East Jerusalem, Har Homa and a few other pieces of land (which I understand). They know there is no chance of the PLO willing to negotiate EJ and a few other stragetically important bits of land vital for Israel's security. If the PLO said they would be willing to give up EJ and strategic land I'm sure negotiations would be back on and they could reach a compromise.
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