Liberalism and Irony

That's gotta be ~a century old, and I'm 100% sure it's been on Fox News. And it's not 1:1, you don't inherit grades, and there isn't some kid who just gets lucky and gets all A's and everyone else gets F's while working just as hard and knowing just as much.

But anyway, if you don't earn money, then you're not entitled to it...ish, making money is not black and white.

It is a fallacy to compare money to irony, and a bit of strawman to say that Liberals want a redistribution of wealth. To start your grade point average is capped at a maximum of 4.0, and even the slightest different in value is a huge difference when it comes to other colleges and some employers. The amount of money you have does not normally affect where you can seek or aquire employment, providing you have the credentials. This is not the case with a grade point average, as having a high and stable grade point average is need to help employers seperate those who are going to do their job and those who are going to do their job the fulliest ability and be reliable employees. On the other coin having a high grade point average is not a necessity to live. Yes having a high grade point average may and certianly will help you aquire a job, but money is esential to purchase a home, food, and clothes. The difference between having say ten million dollars and nine million dollars is not the same as the difference between ten dollars and nine dollars, both equate to a loss of 1/10 of someones wealth, but the person with nine million dollars can appropriately afford to live with nine million dollars, and the person with ten dollars needs every dollar they can get. Right now most Liberals I see are calling for tax reform which would essentially prevent people who make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars more than those in the middle class from paying the same tax rate that those who are in the middle class. Nothing in any major or mainstream Liberal Policy do I see someone actually systematically breaking down and fairly redistributing wealth, merely trying to make the icome tax more fair.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discusskingkong0124

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

I didn't read it.

All I will tell you is that if it has anything bad to say about liberals, the liberals in this forum will dismiss anything about it, then act like you are retarded for not being a washed up liberal hippie.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discussGuybrush_3

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

I didn't read it.

All I will tell you is that if it has anything bad to say about liberals, the liberals in this forum will dismiss anything about it, then act like you are retarded for not being a washed up liberal hippie.

ristactionjakso

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discussChampionoChumps

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

Wasn't aware that you could go to collage for free in the US, always thought I had to pay for it, wish they payed for that...

Jelly of Denmark

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discussChampionoChumps

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

I meant that you make your grades independently of other students trying to make grades at the same time as you.

[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

Inconsistancy

Wasn't aware that you could go to collage for free in the US, always thought I had to pay for it, wish they payed for that...

Jelly of Denmark

[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

Guybrush_3

I meant that you make your grades independently of other students trying to make grades at the same time as you.

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discussGuybrush_3

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

I dont get it. Grades aren't a zero-sum system. Earning my A isn't at the expense of some student getting an F. All students can earn an A or all students can earn an F. A zero-sum system, like money, requires one person's gain to be another's loss. Me being rich is at the expense of many other people being poor.

[QUOTE="ChampionoChumps"][QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

Inconsistancy

Wasn't aware that you could go to collage for free in the US, always thought I had to pay for it, wish they payed for that...

Jelly of Denmark

There are grants that the government gives that pays for a college education. Grants are not paid back. Free college. Scholorships also pay for college without having to be paid back.

More like Conservatism and Delusion.

Wealth is not grades. Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. fidosim

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Wealth is not grades. Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. paratheos

Reading comprehension failure for the win Alex.

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Wealth is not grades. Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. paratheos

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="fidosim"]Wealth is not grades. Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. WhiteKnight77

Reading comprehension failure for the win Alex.

You may have a 3.5 GPA from an Ivy league school because your parents were rich enough to enroll you in that school, or you may have the same GPA from a Public university. One is worth more than the other and it depends on your parents' wealth. Also, one student may have to do less work than another student to get the same GPA simply because one student is smarter than the other.

Now go back and read the original quote. fidosim said that GPAs are not accrued based on the circumstances of one's birth. I posit that your intelligence, your college, and your GPA are all linked to the circumstances of your birth.paratheos

Your tackling on the issue of social mobility (i.e. being able to go from poor to rich and back). Modernized countries have social mobility like never before seen.

Wealthier people are more likely to get into better schools, have better grades, and have higher paying jobs. Thats unfair. It would be nice to level the playing field without it coming at the wealthy people's expense - and it might even be feasible to do so! But the social mobility for a poor dumb person to become rich and intelligent, most certainly exists in a realistic fashion.

That has little do with the equivocation of grades being a zero-sum system like money.

That has little do with the equivocation of grades being a zero-sum system like money.XaosII

[QUOTE="XaosII"]That has little do with the equivocation of grades being a zero-sum system like money.paratheos

Imagine that a classroom full of 20 students is the entire world. You all have 10 dollars. There is a finite pool of 200 dollars. Someone having more than 10 dollars comes at the expense of someone having less than 10 dollars. One student having 50 dollars means some students have lost, collectively, 40 dollars. The student with 50 dollars is "rich" because other students have become poorer.

One person's gain is someone else's direct loss.

Grades are not zero-sum. EVERYONE cna earn an A or an F because those gettings A's are not doing so *because* others are getting F's. So the analogy is flawed.

Yes, an economy is far more complex with inflation, deflation, currency exchanges, interest, printing more money, etc. But the general principle of a zero-sum-like system still holds for any finite resources or currency.

I didn't read it.

All I will tell you is that if it has anything bad to say about liberals, the liberals in this forum will dismiss anything about it, then act like you are retarded for not being a washed up liberal hippie.

ristactionjakso

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="kingkong0124"]http://www.theblaze.com/stories/liberal-college-students-eager-to-redistribute-wealth-are-less-eager-to-redistribute-hard-earned-grades/ discussparatheos

False comparison. You make your grades on your own. You make money with and because of other people.

but the people that give you the grades don't have to work to get the grades to give you, and it's not zero sum.

[QUOTE="WhiteKnight77"]

[QUOTE="paratheos"]But a certain GPA from one college may be worth more or less than the same GPA from another college.paratheos

Reading comprehension failure for the win Alex.

Now go back and read the original quote. fidosim said that GPAs are not accrued based on the circumstances of one's birth. I posit that your intelligence, your college, and your GPA are all linked to the circumstances of your birth.

Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. fidosim

And GPA != money$.

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. coolbeans90

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Students don't enter college with different GPAs based on the circumstances of their birth. fidosim

Are you going to suggest that no correlation exists between circumstances of birth, including genetic and socioeconomic, factors and college GPA?

[QUOTE="fidosim"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"] Dunno 'bout that, bro.

coolbeans90

Are you going to suggest that no correlation exists between circumstances of birth, including genetic and socioeconomic, factors and college GPA?

[QUOTE="paratheos"][QUOTE="XaosII"]That has little do with the equivocation of grades being a zero-sum system like money.XaosII

Imagine that a classroom full of 20 students is the entire world. You all have 10 dollars. There is a finite pool of 200 dollars. Someone having more than 10 dollars comes at the expense of someone having less than 10 dollars. One student having 50 dollars means some students have lost, collectively, 40 dollars. The student with 50 dollars is "rich" because other students have become poorer.

One person's gain is someone else's direct loss.

Grades are not zero-sum. EVERYONE cna earn an A or an F because those gettings A's are not doing so *because* others are getting F's. So the analogy is flawed.

Thank you for explaining. Now I should explain to you that this is a hypothetical scenario. You are critiquing a purely hypothetical situation for not conforming with reality, which is absurd since that is the very definition of a "hypothetical situation." No one is actually saying that grades are a zero-sum system or that they may actually be redistributed in the future. In this theoretical question we are SUPPOSING that they are. Even still, the "GPA" calculation can be converted to a system in which it becomes a zero-sum system, where the gains of one student reflect the losses of another student.

You can choose whether or not to play according to the premises of this hypothetical situation. Some people fail to understand the meaning of a hypothetical question and get hung op on the premises. But if you choose not to, you forgo any insight that can be gleaned from this thought experiment. paratheos

Which is exactly why their anology doesn't work. Grades aren't zero-sum. The feasiblity of making them zero-sum was never questioned. It just doesn't make sense because grades arent finite and have no reason to be zero-sum. Equating a zero-sum grading system to a zero-sum money system is possible - it jsut dumb because grades don't need to be zero-sum.

At best, the creator of the video is skewing the hypothetical scenario to one where the basic premise is flawed.

He's purposely limiting the scope and asking in such a fashion to get the answer of "No, I worked hard for my grades; someone shouldn't take them away." When the reality is simply "No, theres no reason to redistribute grades because they aren't zero-sum."

I'm not even getting caught up in the details of their hypotheticla scenario. Its just simply flawed, oversimplifcation or not.

[QUOTE="paratheos"]Thank you for explaining. Now I should explain to you that this is a hypothetical scenario. You are critiquing a purely hypothetical situation for not conforming with reality, which is absurd since that is the very definition of a "hypothetical situation." No one is actually saying that grades are a zero-sum system or that they may actually be redistributed in the future. In this theoretical question we are SUPPOSING that they are. Even still, the "GPA" calculation can be converted to a system in which it becomes a zero-sum system, where the gains of one student reflect the losses of another student.

You can choose whether or not to play according to the premises of this hypothetical situation. Some people fail to understand the meaning of a hypothetical question and get hung op on the premises. But if you choose not to, you forgo any insight that can be gleaned from this thought experiment. XaosII

Which is exactly why their anology doesn't work. Grades aren't zero-sum. The feasiblity of making them zero-sum was never questioned. It just doesn't make sense because grades arent finite and have no reason to be zero-sum. Equating a zero-sum grading system to a zero-sum money system is possible - it jsut dumb because grades don't need to be zero-sum.

At best, the creator of the video is skewing the hypothetical scenario to one where the basic premise is flawed.

He's purposely limiting the scope and asking in such a fashion to get the answer of "No, I worked hard for my grades; someone shouldn't take them away." When the reality is simply "No, theres no reason to redistribute grades because they aren't zero-sum."

I'm not even getting caught up in the details of their hypotheticla scenario. Its just simply flawed, oversimplifcation or not.

[QUOTE="paratheos"]Thank you for explaining. Now I should explain to you that this is a hypothetical scenario. You are critiquing a purely hypothetical situation for not conforming with reality, which is absurd since that is the very definition of a "hypothetical situation." No one is actually saying that grades are a zero-sum system or that they may actually be redistributed in the future. In this theoretical question we are SUPPOSING that they are. Even still, the "GPA" calculation can be converted to a system in which it becomes a zero-sum system, where the gains of one student reflect the losses of another student.

You can choose whether or not to play according to the premises of this hypothetical situation. Some people fail to understand the meaning of a hypothetical question and get hung op on the premises. But if you choose not to, you forgo any insight that can be gleaned from this thought experiment. XaosII

Which is exactly why their anology doesn't work. Grades aren't zero-sum. The feasiblity of making them zero-sum was never questioned. It just doesn't make sense because grades arent finite and have no reason to be zero-sum. Equating a zero-sum grading system to a zero-sum money system is possible - it jsut dumb because grades don't need to be zero-sum.

At best, the creator of the video is skewing the hypothetical scenario to one where the basic premise is flawed.

He's purposely limiting the scope and asking in such a fashion to get the answer of "No, I worked hard for my grades; someone shouldn't take them away." When the reality is simply "No, theres no reason to redistribute grades because they aren't zero-sum."

I'm not even getting caught up in the details of their hypotheticla scenario. Its just simply flawed, oversimplifcation or not.

Okay SUPPOSE we converted the GPA system into a zero-sum system. We can examine the consequences of this hypothetically, or you can dismiss the assumption in order to escape the question. You are choosing to do the latter. paratheos

Okay. Then question holds little value since it doesn't make sense. But to entertain the question: Its pretty hard to say because of so many other factors but, if its treated like wealth where theres no practical limit and each successive grade point is of marginal value (i.e. a 75.0 GPA vs a 76.0 GPA means less than a 2.0 GPS vs a 3.0 GPA despite both just being a 1 point difference), then i dont see much of an issue with redistribution. I'm not sure i care to have a few grade points less because of the marginal value of grade points i had so many of.

If its not treated like wealth, and there is a limit of 4.0, but theres only X amount of finite points per classroom, then thats a pretty damn stupid system and not akin to the *value* of money, then redistribution would not be fair.

I seriously doubt the creator's intention was to the argue the subte points of redistribution mechanics.

And why is your name XaosII, I thought Xaos rage quit.paratheos

Coincidence. I never heard of him until recently. I almost only posted in the PC Gaming, PC Hardware, and System Wars forums. He seemed to have only posted in Off-Topic i think. He took the Xaos name a few months before i did. I just appended the II to make mine. It would be rather sad to be the same person considering our combined post count would be over 40,000 i think.

[QUOTE="paratheos"]And why is your name XaosII, I thought Xaos rage quit.XaosII

Coincidence. I never heard of him until recently. I almost only posted in the PC Gaming, PC Hardware, and System Wars forums. He seemed to have only posted in Off-Topic i think. He took the Xaos name a few months before i did. I just appended the II to make mine. It would be rather sad to be the same person considering our combined post count would be over 40,000 i think.

[QUOTE="paratheos"]And why is your name XaosII, I thought Xaos rage quit.XaosII

Coincidence. I never heard of him until recently. I almost only posted in the PC Gaming, PC Hardware, and System Wars forums. He seemed to have only posted in Off-Topic i think. He took the Xaos name a few months before i did. I just appended the II to make mine. It would be rather sad to be the same person considering our combined post count would be over 40,000 i think.

Of course genetic factors like general intelligence can affect one's performance in a college. But as I said to paratheos,everyone starts college with the same GPA, and one's GPA is a direct reflection of one's abilities. The same is not always true for wealth. Not everyone starts in the same position wealth-wise.fidosim

Intelligence is a circumstance of birth, which also correlates to wealth and is why I mentioned it. People who are of a better socioeconomic circumstances at birth are also more likely to succeed academically - in other words they are predisposed to a better GPA than those who are poorer, kinda like money finds its way to those of better socioeconomic, even barring inheritances.

Grades aren't zero-sum.

XaosII

And wealth is?

You can be like are xaos substitute. But better.Charazani

[QUOTE="fidosim"]Of course genetic factors like general intelligence can affect one's performance in a college. But as I said to paratheos,everyone starts college with the same GPA, and one's GPA is a direct reflection of one's abilities. The same is not always true for wealth. Not everyone starts in the same position wealth-wise.coolbeans90

Intelligence is a circumstance of birth, which also correlates to wealth and is why I mentioned it. People who are of a better socioeconomic circumstances at birth are also more likely to succeed academically - in other words they are predisposed to a better GPA than those who are poorer, kinda like money finds its way to those of better socioeconomic, even barring inheritances.