Latest Snowden Poll Results: 55% Say Whistleblower; 34% Say Traitor

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]i don't trust people that play with the lives of others for ideals.Laihendi

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"][QUOTE="wis3boi"]

the only person in danger is hismelf

mrbojangles25

who did he put in danger?

Not like he leaked CIA secrets about specific agents in critical areas *coughScooterLibbycoughcough*

yet, he could anytime he wants.

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

who did he put in danger?

Not like he leaked CIA secrets about specific agents in critical areas *coughScooterLibbycoughcough*

BossPerson

federal agents and their families.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"] Uh, no. Say what you will about the government in general, but the people working with them are still people. Just like anyone else.frannkzappa

who did he put in danger?

Not like he leaked CIA secrets about specific agents in critical areas *coughScooterLibbycoughcough*

yet, he could anytime he wants.

[QUOTE="SwagSurf"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] When did I keep telling myself that the government isn't watching me?DroidPhysX

"You don't know that they looked at your specific data. It's just pure speculation."

"neato, with no proof you have no standing."

This is not speculation too 

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]With the amount of information he has, likely a lot of people. I especially don't trust him after he said he joined the NSA ONLY for that reason.

frannkzappa

federal agents and their families.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

who did he put in danger?

Not like he leaked CIA secrets about specific agents in critical areas *coughScooterLibbycoughcough*

BossPerson

yet, he could anytime he wants.

nice to see you don't care about the safety of others as long as you get a little "freedom".

if this man really cared about the whole prism thing why did he steal laptops of unrelated government data.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]List some specific dangers that some people could be in because of his leaks. BossPerson

federal agents and their families.

i've linked it several times.

snowden himself has said he has knowledge of the location of federal agents, their missions, their families and their safe houses.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="SwagSurf"] You kept telling yourself that with the previous comments. SwagSurf

"You don't know that they looked at your specific data. It's just pure speculation."

"neato, with no proof you have no standing."

This is not speculation too 

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

federal agents and their families.

frannkzappa

i've linked it several times.

snowden himself has said he has knowledge of the location of federal agents, their missions, their families and their safe houses.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]proof? BossPerson

i've linked it several times.

snowden himself has said he has knowledge of the location of federal agents, their missions, their families and their safe houses.

who says he hasn't?

by your logic he could be carrying around nukes, but nobody should be worried because he hasn't blown anything up yet. keep living in your "it will never happen to me" universe.

[QUOTE="SwagSurf"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Show me where I used the exact wording.DroidPhysX

"You don't know that they looked at your specific data. It's just pure speculation."

"neato, with no proof you have no standing."

This is not speculation too 

I'll bold it for you.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="SwagSurf"]

"You don't know that they looked at your specific data. It's just pure speculation."

"neato, with no proof you have no standing."

This is not speculation too

SwagSurf

I'll bold it for you.

your reading comprehension is terrible.

[QUOTE="SwagSurf"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] I don't see anything that says "I keep telling myself that the government isn't watching".frannkzappa

I'll bold it for you.

your reading comprehension is terrible.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

i've linked it several times.

 

 

snowden himself has said he has knowledge of the location of federal agents, their missions, their families and their safe houses.

frannkzappa

who says he hasn't?

by your logic he could be carrying around nukes, but nobody should be worried because he hasn't blown anything up yet. keep living in your "it will never happen to me" universe.

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]did he leak that info? I'm not sure why he would take laptops of allegedly "unrelated info" but he hasnt leaked any of that info BossPerson

who says he hasn't?

by your logic he could be carrying around nukes, but nobody should be worried because he hasn't blown anything up yet. keep living in your "it will never happen to me" universe.

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

who says he hasn't?

by your logic he could be carrying around nukes, but nobody should be worried because he hasn't blown anything up yet. keep living in your "it will never happen to me" universe.

frannkzappa

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]well he either has or hasnt leaked them. you cant seem to link anything saying he has

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

BossPerson

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

Yes, if he doen't have the courage to do the right thing than i can not call him a hero. what he did was illegal he should face charges. either way he already got the information out. what happened to him should have been irrelevant.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

who says he hasn't?

by your logic he could be carrying around nukes, but nobody should be worried because he hasn't blown anything up yet. keep living in your "it will never happen to me" universe.

frannkzappa

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]well he either has or hasnt leaked them. you cant seem to link anything saying he has

I remember your initial objection to this guy was simply the fact that he outed the NSA (then again, most already knew what they were doing). But now, it seems your objection has shifted to his imaginary and hypothetical leaking of the locations of federal agents.

thebest31406

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

Why steal several laptops of unrelated sensitive data?

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

no, i simply view it as illegal. i did not support the actions of the NSA as of now, as their program doesn't seem to have even been successfull in any meaningful way.

my problem with snowden is the other information he stole, which points to the fact that he did this for his own gain. if all he did was reveal the NSA program and then let himself face charges after doing goo, i would view the man much differently.

Do you really not see the risk of him holding this sensitive data? why would he steal it if he wasn't going to blackmail the government or sell it?

frannkzappa

Why steal several laptops of unrelated sensitive data?

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] Then why didn't he do that from the beginning? Why appear on news shows and explain his rationale? Why not sell the info he has from jump?thebest31406

Why steal several laptops of unrelated sensitive data?

probably because he isn't the hero everyone wants him to be, just an average selfish idiot.

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

Why steal several laptops of unrelated sensitive data?

frannkzappa

probably because he isn't the hero everyone wants him to be, just an average selfish idiot.

it will be a good movie, i think ill go see it

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] hmm...why did he do that?thebest31406

probably because he isn't the hero everyone wants him to be, just an average selfish idiot.

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

but that is speculation.

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

probably because he isn't the hero everyone wants him to be, just an average selfish idiot.

frannkzappa

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

but that is speculation.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] Well whatever his intentions were, the people know how they're being monitored and that's a good thing. I don't imagine a greedy, selfish person would show his face on Guardian and Democracy Now knowing the kind of trouble he would be in. But if the info he has doesn't pertain to the privacy violation of Americans, then he should submit back to the USBossPerson

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

but that is speculation.

he hasn't given anything to the guardian besides the NSA stuff...

he has multiple laptops of information he could be selling right now.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="thebest31406"] Well whatever his intentions were, the people know how they're being monitored and that's a good thing. I don't imagine a greedy, selfish person would show his face on Guardian and Democracy Now knowing the kind of trouble he would be in. But if the info he has doesn't pertain to the privacy violation of Americans, then he should submit back to the USBossPerson

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

but that is speculation.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

but that is speculation.

thebest31406

he didn't give all his information to the guardian just the NSA stuff.

Again he has several laptops of unrelated data.

Hope he ends up dead after this. He f*cked us over in our relations with China. China has been hacking us for a while, and they were starting to back off, but now after snowden they're just right back at it, and won't back off. If anything this means our intelligence agencies now have to have more resources. 

On top of that, he doesn't give a shit about human rights. He seeks asylum in countries with the worst human rights records in the world. What a f*cking hypocrite.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"][QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

For all we know the NSA leak was just a PR boost to get him public support so he can do what he wants with the other info he stole.

 

 

but that is speculation.

thebest31406

In a way it makes sense. Due to the NSA leaks Snowden is so popular he could probably run for president and win at this point (assuming a warrant for his arrest wasn't active).

If it later came out that he sold the names and locations of undercover agents to al Qaeda most people would dismiss it as a smear campaign to discredit him, just like every other negative piece of news that has came out about him in the past month. All people will concentrate on is that he outed the NSA's surveillance programs.

But then again, maybe he underestimated how popular he would become from the leaks. If he came on the net today and asked for all of his supporters to donate ten bucks for his defense and incidental expenses most would comply and he would be rich without selling a single piece of information.

Regardless of Mr. Snowden's overall intentions just possessing the information is bad. Even if his only intention is to use it as insurance against the government that doesn't mean he can't be kidnapped and forced to hand it over. It's not like he is an anonymous courier like most government officials transporting Top Secret information; his face is all over the planet.

Even if he doesn't have any other classified information on his person his knowledge of classified government networks could possibly be exploited with hackers trying to find a way to break into them. At that point, if they are successful in breaking into a government network it's not just about embarrassing US policies, it's about vital intelligence or military information being put at risk.

[QUOTE="thebest31406"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]logic would dictate that if he was out to get rich or wanting to "better himself" then he would sell the information discreetly, not give it to the guardian ad1x2

In a way it makes sense. Due to the NSA leaks Snowden is so popular he could probably run for president and win at this point (assuming a warrant for his arrest wasn't active).

If it later came out that he sold the names and locations of undercover agents to al Qaeda most people would dismiss it as a smear campaign to discredit him, just like every other negative piece of news that has came out about him in the past month. All people will concentrate on is that he outed the NSA's surveillance programs.

But then again, maybe he underestimated how popular he would become from the leaks. If he came on the net today and asked for all of his supporters to donate ten bucks for his defense and incidental expenses most would comply and he would be rich without selling a single piece of information.

Regardless of Mr. Snowden's overall intentions just possessing the information is bad. Even if his only intention is to use it as insurance against the government that doesn't mean he can't be kidnapped and forced to hand it over. It's not like he is an anonymous courier like most government officials transporting Top Secret information; his face is all over the planet.

Even if he doesn't have any other classified information on his person his knowledge of classified government networks could possibly be exploited with hackers trying to find a way to break into them. At that point, if they are successful in breaking into a government network it's not just about embarrassing US policies, it's about vital intelligence or military information being put at risk.

Hope he ends up dead after this. He f*cked us over in our relations with China. China has been hacking us for a while, and they were starting to back off, but now after snowden they're just right back at it, and won't back off. If anything this means our intelligence agencies now have to have more resources. 

On top of that, he doesn't give a shit about human rights. He seeks asylum in countries with the worst human rights records in the world. What a f*cking hypocrite.

MakeMeaSammitch

Well, anything's possible but regardless of the dozens of possibilities, we shouldn't jump to conclusions out of fear of what could happen. That said, if he has info which isn't related to violations from governments then he should hand it over. Although, we don't know what he has; he could have evidence regarding certain crimes. But if so, why hasn't he revealed them? *sigh* so many questions...thebest31406

It still isn't safe for him and that isn't something that can be dismissed. Most of Mr. Snowden's supporters are scared the government will find him so they can make an "accident" happen. I'll give them more credit than that, Snowden is so popular people may riot if they even suspect the US government assassinated him. The terrorists on the other hand are only concerned with the information they can extract from him if captured. Taking asylum in a country hostile to the US is more risky than if he came back here.

If he worked for the CIA for a few years he probably knows other Top Secret information he could give up under torture; it isn't like they can give you the Men in Black treatment before you leave so you can't talk. The last time I was read off of a sensitive assignment I signed a piece of paper stating I wouldn't talk about unauthorized subjects and was sent on my merry way. It wasn't anything that big of a deal but the point was pretty much made that the first rule of Fight Club applies in that situation.

[QUOTE="thebest31406"]Well, anything's possible but regardless of the dozens of possibilities, we shouldn't jump to conclusions out of fear of what could happen. That said, if he has info which isn't related to violations from governments then he should hand it over. Although, we don't know what he has; he could have evidence regarding certain crimes. But if so, why hasn't he revealed them? *sigh* so many questions...ad1x2

It still isn't safe for him and that isn't something that can be dismissed. Most of Mr. Snowden's supporters are scared the government will find him so they can make an "accident" happen. I'll give them more credit than that, Snowden is so popular people may riot if they even suspect the US government assassinated him. The terrorists on the other hand are only concerned with the information they can extract from him if captured. Taking asylum in a country hostile to the US is more risky than if he came back here.

If he worked for the CIA for a few years he probably knows other Top Secret information he could give up under torture; it isn't like they can give you the Men in Black treatment before you leave so you can't talk. The last time I was read off of a sensitive assignment I signed a piece of paper stating I wouldn't talk about unauthorized subjects and was sent on my merry way. It wasn't anything that big of a deal but the point was pretty much made that the first rule of Fight Club applies in that situation.

Hope he ends up dead after this. He f*cked us over in our relations with China. China has been hacking us for a while, and they were starting to back off, but now after snowden they're just right back at it, and won't back off. If anything this means our intelligence agencies now have to have more resources. 

On top of that, he doesn't give a shit about human rights. He seeks asylum in countries with the worst human rights records in the world. What a f*cking hypocrite.

MakeMeaSammitch

[QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

Hope he ends up dead after this. He f*cked us over in our relations with China. China has been hacking us for a while, and they were starting to back off, but now after snowden they're just right back at it, and won't back off. If anything this means our intelligence agencies now have to have more resources.

On top of that, he doesn't give a shit about human rights. He seeks asylum in countries with the worst human rights records in the world. What a f*cking hypocrite.

Person0

well he should be handed over to the US.

he already released the appropriate information. now he should face the consequences before someone innocent is hurt.

[QUOTE="Person0"][QUOTE="MakeMeaSammitch"]

Hope he ends up dead after this. He f*cked us over in our relations with China. China has been hacking us for a while, and they were starting to back off, but now after snowden they're just right back at it, and won't back off. If anything this means our intelligence agencies now have to have more resources.

On top of that, he doesn't give a shit about human rights. He seeks asylum in countries with the worst human rights records in the world. What a f*cking hypocrite.

frannkzappa

well he should be handed over to the US.

he already released the appropriate information. now he should face the consequences before someone innocent is hurt.

[QUOTE="frannkzappa"]

[QUOTE="Person0"] Yeah go to those countries with good human rights records that would hand him off to the U.S instantlyPerson0

well he should be handed over to the US.

he already released the appropriate information. now he should face the consequences before someone innocent is hurt.

say's who.

he does not deserve to do what he wants with sensitive information that can endanger innocents.