I don't get Americans

They always go on about 'freedom', and how they are more 'free' than any other country in the world.

But some freedoms are so unimportant to most people's lives that it really isn't a massive statement. For example, in America, you have the right to carry a gun. In the UK, gun laws are much stricter.

Yeah, we don't get to go around shooting animals and tresspassers and stuff. But big deal. We aren't going to get shot by a random mugger, we aren't going to get massacred in school.

Freedom is great, but some freedoms risk safety and it's more important to find a balance between freedom and security.

For example, the freedom of speech is great. You can shout ANYTHING you want at or about someone. Your words are not going to directly harm them.

discuss.

We have our limits, but it isn't just about guns. And it would be disturbing the peace if we just randomly yelled for no reason.CRS98

They always go on about 'freedom', and how they are more 'free' than any other country in the world.

But some freedoms are so unimportant to most people's lives that it really isn't a massive statement. For example, in America, you have the right to carry a gun. In the UK, gun laws are much stricter.

Yeah, we don't get to go around shooting animals and tresspassers and stuff. But big deal. We aren't going to get shot by a random mugger, we aren't going to get massacred in school.

Freedom is great, but some freedoms risk safety and it's more important to find a balance between freedom and security.

For example, the freedom of speech is great. You can shout ANYTHING you want at or about someone. Your words are not going to directly harm them.

discuss.

Stumpt25

Good for you.

We live here because we like the way it is here.

If you don't want that go somewhere else.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin.

The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.The_Mac_Daddy

And I like my guns.

Just thought I'd add to the conversation.

I really like my guns, and no one here is going to take them from me so they can feel safe.

I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.Brainkiller05

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.The_Mac_Daddy

Do you have any evidence to substanciate your claim that it's 'easier' to move up classes if you live in America. or even, that it's 'hard' to in Europe. And regardless, how is that 'freedom'?

You said that 'anyone can come here and make something of themselves'. Have you actually seen the number of immigrants in the UK and around Europe? They all come here to 'make something of themselves'.

I'm sorry, but you just threw out a whole lot of comments with nothing to support them with.

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.mfacek

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.mfacek

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 4 countries out of 200 plus.

Its a big deal because when the constitution was written "freedom" was just an imagination in most countries. You do realize that Bush didn't win the popular vote in America right? Ever since him the American name and what it stands for has been soiled. Stoned_gamer

Even though I am a diehard conservative, I agree with this.

The current election system is balls.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.Stumpt25

Do you have any evidence to substanciate your claim that it's 'easier' to move up classes if you live in America. or even, that it's 'hard' to in Europe. And regardless, how is that 'freedom'?

You said that 'anyone can come here and make something of themselves'. Have you actually seen the number of immigrants in the UK and around Europe? They all come here to 'make something of themselves'.

I'm sorry, but you just threw out a whole lot of comments with nothing to support them with.

Hold on, let me dig up some support.

Oh, and America has TONS of immmigrants. And it's not just the amount of them, it's the opportunities they are presented with here that they probably would not have in other places..

The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.The_Mac_Daddy

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05133/504149.stm

"Despite the widespread belief that the U.S. remains a more mobile society than Europe, economists and sociologists say that in recent decades the typical child starting out in poverty in continental Europe (or in Canada) has had a better chance at prosperity. Miles Corak, an economist for Canada's national statistical agency who edited a recent Cambridge University Press book on mobility in Europe and North America, tweaked dozens of studies of the U.S., Canada and European countries to make them comparable. "The U.S. and Britain appear to stand out as the least mobile societies among the rich countries studied," he finds. France and Germany are somewhat more mobile than the U.S.; Canada and the Nordic countries are much more so."

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.Stumpt25

Do you have any evidence to substanciate your claim that it's 'easier' to move up classes if you live in America. or even, that it's 'hard' to in Europe. And regardless, how is that 'freedom'?

You said that 'anyone can come here and make something of themselves'. Have you actually seen the number of immigrants in the UK and around Europe? They all come here to 'make something of themselves'.

I'm sorry, but you just threw out a whole lot of comments with nothing to support them with.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.loco145

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 3 countries out of 200 plus.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.loco145

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 4 countries out of 200 plus.

I didn't know Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, and North Korea were three countries.

And if you go do some research, you'd find a suprising number of countries that have the same situation as those.

Man, I actually did a report on gun control and all and here my result's

After 1920, when the UK have strict gun control, the crime rate have gone up by 400% since

In all the US states when guns control is not very strict, the crime rate is normally lower

In a situation, when a trepasser or intruder enter someone house, there is only 8% or 0.8% or someone get shot

Criminals are goin 2 stop buyin guns juz, there's a new law. Dat' why thy're criminals.

Hell, I even remember somewhere, I not certain but for every life loss to guns there are 250 or 2500 saved

999realthings

Your first fact is hugely misleading. In the 1920's there was hardly any access to any guns. People had more conservative values too, so less drugs, less teenage pregnancies, less everything... these things all contribute to crime.

You also discount the fact that the % of gun crime in the US is substancially higher than UK

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.Stumpt25

Do you have any evidence to substanciate your claim that it's 'easier' to move up classes if you live in America. or even, that it's 'hard' to in Europe. And regardless, how is that 'freedom'?

You said that 'anyone can come here and make something of themselves'. Have you actually seen the number of immigrants in the UK and around Europe? They all come here to 'make something of themselves'.

I'm sorry, but you just threw out a whole lot of comments with nothing to support them with.

My mom moved to England, last time I visited her in '06, she made like 10000 Pounds a month managing people.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.CommanderShiro

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 3 countries out of 200 plus.

[QUOTE="Stumpt25"]

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]The American entrepreneuer is more free. Businesses are more free. Many more people in America can move up classes.. It's relatively hard to move up classes in Europe, I believe. We have the freedoms to remove those from office that we do not like. It happened in California before Arnold was the gov. They voted to remove the gov., and they did it. The "freedom" that we have here means anybody from anywhere in the world can come here and make something of themselves.The_Mac_Daddy

Do you have any evidence to substanciate your claim that it's 'easier' to move up classes if you live in America. or even, that it's 'hard' to in Europe. And regardless, how is that 'freedom'?

You said that 'anyone can come here and make something of themselves'. Have you actually seen the number of immigrants in the UK and around Europe? They all come here to 'make something of themselves'.

I'm sorry, but you just threw out a whole lot of comments with nothing to support them with.

Hold on, let me dig up some support.

Oh, and America has TONS of immmigrants. And it's not just the amount of them, it's the opportunities they are presented with here that they probably would not have in other places..

You've misunderstood my point completely. There are no 'opportunities' available to immigrants in the US that aren't available in the UK... Otherwise we wouldn't have immigrants...

By the way you haven't thought about our right to free healthcare (you guys don't have that freedom)

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic. mfacek

[QUOTE="CommanderShiro"][QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.loco145

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 3 countries out of 200 plus.

So you're just going to trust the police and authority to protect you all the time?londoxleed

Yes. It certainly makes our society safter :)

[QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.loco145

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 4 countries out of 200 plus.

Do I really have to list every country that has harsh totalitarian regimes? Face it, while we enjoy many freedoms, claiming "everyone" is free is completely ignorant.

China alone counts for 1.4 billion people in the world with literally no freedom.

Let us Americans live our lives while you live yours. It's strange that I never see Americans post threads on how they "don't get" other countries.stevenk4k5

Americans don't usually concern themselves with other countries. That is why you don't see them making threads like this.

[QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.mfacek

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 4 countries out of 200 plus.

Do I really have to list every country that has harsh totalitarian regimes? Face it, while we enjoy many freedoms, claiming "everyone" is free is completely ignorant.

China alone counts for 1.4 billion people in the world with literally no freedom.

[QUOTE="mfacek"]Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic. Vandalvideo

Even though your point is good, you haven't thought about the potential rebuttal of:

1 child policy

you are only allowed to drive on alternating days

(Even though these are very necessary policies)

Even though your point is good, you haven't thought about the potential rebuttal of:1 child policyyou are only allowed to drive on alternating days Even though these are very necessary policies) Stumpt25

[QUOTE="mfacek"]Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic. Vandalvideo

Give me a break. Chinese people have no freedom of press, no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no voting rights, virtually no women's rights, families can only have 1 child, no free market, and no habeas corpus.

You're right, democracy isn't freedom, but gaurenteeing the basic rights of your people is. The fact that you claim a Chinese women is as free as an American, French,or English women is laughable.

And yes, the rights the people have ARE freedom.

Do you even know what the definition of freedom is? Here are a few-

1. the power to determine action without restraint.

2. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.

3. the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like.

4. the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination.

[QUOTE="mfacek"][QUOTE="loco145"][QUOTE="mfacek"]

[QUOTE="Brainkiller05"]I agree, they should stop boasting about freedom... they often act as if every other country is in shackles and are slaves. Breaking news America: everybody is free, if "we are free" is the only bullet point on your box then things can't be going too well.loco145

Breaking news: Not everyone is free. Ever hear of Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, or North Korea? You're free, I'm free, but to claim everyone in the world enjoys the freedoms we do is idiotic.

Thats just 4 countries out of 200 plus.

Do I really have to list every country that has harsh totalitarian regimes? Face it, while we enjoy many freedoms, claiming "everyone" is free is completely ignorant.

China alone counts for 1.4 billion people in the world with literally no freedom.

O, maybe Brainkiller's "Breaking News: Everyone is free" comment threw me off.

/facepalm

over-patriotic americans is one of my pet peeves. if you can't critisize your country how will it improve? i'm american btw, in ny.darkIink

Agreed, dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

I loved how ironic it was when the Republicans chanted USA to drown out protesters at the convention. :lol:

Give me a break. Chinese people have no freedom of press, no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no voting rights, virtually no women's rights, families can only have 1 child, no free market, and no habeas corpus.mfacek

You're right, democracy isn't freedom, but gaurenteeing the basic rights of your people is. The fact that you claim a Chinese women is as free as an American, French,or English women is laughable.

And yes, the rights the people have ARE freedom.

Do you even know what the definition of freedom is? Here are a few-1. the power to determine action without restraint. 2. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.

Nevermind them mate, they have no idea what they're talking about.jointed

Good for you.

We live here because we like the way it is here.

If you don't want that go somewhere else.

-TheSecondSign-

Oh come on, that could apply to anything. North Korea, or China, for example.

[QUOTE="jointed"]Nevermind them mate, they have no idea what they're talking about.Jandurin

Yeah, I'm convinced :o