Arizona Supreme Court rules a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable.

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#1  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts

Arizona Supreme Court rules a near-total abortion ban from 1864 is enforceable (nbcnews.com)

The ruling allows an 1864 law in Arizona to stand that made abortion a felony punishable by two to five years in prison for anyone who performs one or helps a woman obtain one.

The law— which was codified in 1901, and again in 1913 — outlaws abortion from the moment of conception but includes an exception to save the woman’s life.

And they blocked a Democrat push to repeal it yesterday,

Arizona Republicans block quick push to repeal near-total abortion ban, which hasn’t taken effect yet - ABC News (go.com)

What are your thoughts on this? I find it absolutely crazy and draconian, this should be between a woman and her doctor. Looks very extreme. It also looks to be disastrous politically.

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#2 Elaisse
Member since 2012 • 648 Posts

nice!

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#3  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58322 Posts

This is horseshit and I hope the GOP is buried alive by legislation like this.

Seeing Trump flop around on the subject like a fish out of water has been entertaining, though. What a coward Trump and the party that kowtows to him are.

In other news, jerking off is now a felony as it is seen as mass genocide of potential life.

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pyro1245

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#4 pyro1245
Member since 2003 • 9399 Posts

A major step backwards.

Let's adopt a healthcare law that was made back when life expectancy was only 40 years

A decision that could only be made by, or supported by, idiots. No two ways about it.

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#5  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17660 Posts

Watching these laws and rulings, I'm not at all worried.

Were republicans smart, they'd find that it'd much better behoove their goals towards pro-life were they to take a more moderate approach and seek compromise. This extremist, draconian manner of seeking complete abortion bans, with no exceptions for rape or incest, is so laughably unreasonable, cruel and out of touch with what the majority of the American electorate wants that it will fail and will be met with equal extremism at the ballot box, especially now that the subject has been placed in the hands of the voters at the state level.

Overwhelmingly, Americans want rights to have an abortion, in some form or another. It's in the high 80s or even 90%+. So fine, these idiots can be as extremist and uncompromising as they want in their desire to regress centuries back, and they are going to continue to be absolutely hammered in every future election by people who wish to live in the modern age. Roe being mandated at the federal level predicated on a nebulous constitutional interpretation, secured by yet held at the mercy of partisan fluctuations of the court, was bound to eventually falter. When it will be enshrined in each state's constitution, not by judges, but by majority vote, it will be much much harder, if not impossible, to eradicate.

Republicans in their dismantling of Roe, they had better be careful what they wish for, because they're going to get it. Americans want access to abortion, and they are going to vote accordingly. Were I pro-life, I would not want to place it in the hands of the voters, it's a losing arena to play in.

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#6  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

This is double bad.

1. It's a draconian law that takes away a right that women should be warrantied to have.

2. Will increase the amount of women that pretend to be victims in society and will make feminism even more unbearable.

I blame religion.

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#7  Edited By firedrakes
Member since 2004 • 4368 Posts

so a sub section of the law...

condoms or birth control is also illegal .

bring any over state lines is also illegal.

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#8 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

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#9  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@Elaisse said:

nice!

Agreed, I hope next time they use laws from even before 1864! Nice and old school, chock full of eventual reduced healthcare outcomes and worse maternal mortality rates!

Maybe they will even employ their special spell casting again,

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#10 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3411 Posts

Disgusting, deplorable people. But not surprising.

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#11 Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

@firedrakes: really how are they going to enforce that?

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#12  Edited By Planeforger
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@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

Congrats! I had mine last year, same deal.

My wife had a few complications in the final weeks of her pregnancy, so we had to induce the birth earlier than planned. The alternative was to wait it out and risk my wife and child dying.

Thanks to modern medicine, everything turned out fine in the end for us, but that's not the case for everyone. Sometimes the choice is between aborting the baby or having the mother (or both) die. So as a new father, I'm sure you'd agree that medically-necessary abortions should be allowed, at the very least.

It's also worth pointing out that dying in childbirth was really super common back in the 1860s. It's absolutely barbaric and inhumane for Arizona to force modern women to relive those traumas. Everyone responsible for this decision has blood on their hands, as does everyone who voted for the people responsible for this decision.

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#13 lamprey263
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Republicans always have the worst legislative ideas.

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#14 mrbojangles25
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@MirkoS77 said:

Watching these laws and rulings, I'm not at all worried.

Were republicans smart, they'd find that it'd much better behoove their goals towards pro-life were they to take a more moderate approach and seek compromise. This extremist, draconian manner of seeking complete abortion bans, with no exceptions for rape or incest, is so laughably unreasonable, cruel and out of touch with what the majority of the American electorate wants that it will fail and will be met with equal extremism at the ballot box, especially now that the subject has been placed in the hands of the voters at the state level.

Overwhelmingly, Americans want rights to have an abortion, in some form or another. It's in the high 80s or even 90%+. So fine, these idiots can be as extremist and uncompromising as they want in their desire to regress centuries back, and they are going to continue to be absolutely hammered in every future election by people who wish to live in the modern age. Roe being mandated at the federal level predicated on a nebulous constitutional interpretation, secured by yet held at the mercy of partisan fluctuations of the court, was bound to eventually falter. When it will be enshrined in each state's constitution, not by judges, but by majority vote, it will be much much harder, if not impossible, to eradicate.

Republicans in their dismantling of Roe, they had better be careful what they wish for, because they're going to get it. Americans want access to abortion, and they are going to vote accordingly. Were I pro-life, I would not want to place it in the hands of the voters, it's a losing arena to play in.

We live in a time where a fringe, extremist minority exerts rule over the moderate majority, however.

These people are anti-democratic whackos and they have been appeased and have cheated their way toward essentially ruling over us, and frankly I don't know how we can remove them because their power is cemented and their placement supported by absolutely massive financial mechanisms and corporations.

I am very worried. Especially given the dissatisfaction people have with Biden and the appeal of third-part candidates spoilers. Vote for Biden, or vote for Trump. There is no viable third choice right now.

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#15 firedrakes
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@nirgal said:

@firedrakes: really how are they going to enforce that?

and that a issue to...

they really did not think this law thru.

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#16  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15569 Posts
@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

Would you have felt the same way if you were holding a red unformed and unresponsive fetus? Because abortion isn't for the smiling alive babies people hold in their arms, just fyi.

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#17 LJS9502_basic
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@Vaasman said:
@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

Would you have felt the same way if you were holding a red unformed and unresponsive fetus? Because abortion isn't for the smiling alive babies people hold in their arms, just fyi.

Wonder what his response would be if he was told his wife/girlfriend wouldn't survive.

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#18 SargentD
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@Planeforger said:
@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

Congrats! I had mine last year, same deal.

My wife had a few complications in the final weeks of her pregnancy, so we had to induce the birth earlier than planned. The alternative was to wait it out and risk my wife and child dying.

Thanks to modern medicine, everything turned out fine in the end for us, but that's not the case for everyone. Sometimes the choice is between aborting the baby or having the mother (or both) die. So as a new father, I'm sure you'd agree that medically-necessary abortions should be allowed, at the very least.

It's also worth pointing out that dying in childbirth was really super common back in the 1860s. It's absolutely barbaric and inhumane for Arizona to force modern women to relive those traumas. Everyone responsible for this decision has blood on their hands, as does everyone who voted for the people responsible for this decision.

Congrats dude!

I feel you, we almost induced, blood pressure spike but it went away and we were 41 weeks in and she ended up trying a sweep which jump started labor that day. Had our own complications during labor, baby's blood pressure dropped durring labor and doctor wasn't sure why, thought it might be umbilical chord so we ended up getting an emergency c section like 14 hours into labor. Ended up not being umbilical chord, was a narrow uterus and the contractions were squeezing the baby. C section was ruff because the baby was so far into labor and low they actually had to pull her out feet first.Scary stuff having all the doctors and nurses rushing in during complications, but everything worked out, baby and mom are healthy and good. I'm glad everything worked out for your family.

I don't have a strong opinion on abortion. I'm not in a position to help decide what's best for anyone else's family but my own. But from what I have read was roe vs wade was always a weak precedent legally. Even Ruth ginsberg talked about how she didn't think it would hold up and would need to be made law by the government, roe vs wade was not going to be enough.

The overturning has lead to states actually codifying abortion into state law. This was something politicians always promised to do but never actually did. Now after the overturning of roe vs wade.. they now are actually doing it! So now the states have the power to decide, some are allowing it up to 9 months some only up until a heartbeat. The people in thier states will now vote and decide where thier line is on this issue.

And yes I personally believe in exceptions to things like rape and the life of the mother. Personally don't have an issue with it in the first 3 months either. Not a fan of late term abortion if the mothers life isn't in danger for any reason tho. So that's my personal outlook on the topic. But I'll be real it's not a top 5 issue for me regardless politically.

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#19 comp_atkins
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@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

congrats! having 2 daughters myself, I can't imagine some bible-thumping state legislator celebrating them taking away my daughters' right to decide what is best for their bodies / families.

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#20  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts
@comp_atkins said:
@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

congrats! having 2 daughters myself, I can't imagine some bible-thumping state legislator celebrating them taking away my daughters' right to decide what is best for their bodies / families.

Don't have to be a Bible thumper to not like late term abortion and think it's wrong, especially when the woman's life isn't in danger. Believe it or not can be an athiest and come to that conclusion. Just saying.

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#21 MirkoS77
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@mrbojangles25 said:
@MirkoS77 said:

Watching these laws and rulings, I'm not at all worried.

Were republicans smart, they'd find that it'd much better behoove their goals towards pro-life were they to take a more moderate approach and seek compromise. This extremist, draconian manner of seeking complete abortion bans, with no exceptions for rape or incest, is so laughably unreasonable, cruel and out of touch with what the majority of the American electorate wants that it will fail and will be met with equal extremism at the ballot box, especially now that the subject has been placed in the hands of the voters at the state level.

Overwhelmingly, Americans want rights to have an abortion, in some form or another. It's in the high 80s or even 90%+. So fine, these idiots can be as extremist and uncompromising as they want in their desire to regress centuries back, and they are going to continue to be absolutely hammered in every future election by people who wish to live in the modern age. Roe being mandated at the federal level predicated on a nebulous constitutional interpretation, secured by yet held at the mercy of partisan fluctuations of the court, was bound to eventually falter. When it will be enshrined in each state's constitution, not by judges, but by majority vote, it will be much much harder, if not impossible, to eradicate.

Republicans in their dismantling of Roe, they had better be careful what they wish for, because they're going to get it. Americans want access to abortion, and they are going to vote accordingly. Were I pro-life, I would not want to place it in the hands of the voters, it's a losing arena to play in.

We live in a time where a fringe, extremist minority exerts rule over the moderate majority, however.

These people are anti-democratic whackos and they have been appeased and have cheated their way toward essentially ruling over us, and frankly I don't know how we can remove them because their power is cemented and their placement supported by absolutely massive financial mechanisms and corporations.

I am very worried. Especially given the dissatisfaction people have with Biden and the appeal of third-part candidates spoilers. Vote for Biden, or vote for Trump. There is no viable third choice right now.

Two different subjects.

If Trump manages to get re-elected, I throw up my hands and shake my head at the stupidity of the electorate at being so myopic to re-elect someone who demonstrates blatant contempt for their own voices as Americans because they simply want cheaper gas and cannot see past their nose and own selfish interests. This country will get exactly what it deserves, anti-democratic initiatives will be pushed and yes, we'll be in a fight. Abortion will be pushed to be outlawed entirely. But if people vote to put Trump and republicans in power who will take away those rights, they deserve it.

Should we retain a semblance of democracy in this nation and Biden is re-elected, I again, don't have any real concerns. Voices will be heard. People will speak. Abortion will, after some time, come back stronger than before.

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#22  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@sargentd said:
@comp_atkins said:
@sargentd said:

Had my first child recently and she's awesome. I can't help but smile everytime I look at her.

Once you hold em you can never imagine having them taken from the world.

congrats! having 2 daughters myself, I can't imagine some bible-thumping state legislator celebrating them taking away my daughters' right to decide what is best for their bodies / families.

Don't have to be a Bible thumper to not like late term abortion and think it's wrong,

This AZ is ruling is a near total ban, not just late term. You're bringing up a straw-man, likely intentionally.

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#23 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58322 Posts

@MirkoS77 said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@MirkoS77 said:

Watching these laws and rulings, I'm not at all worried.

Were republicans smart, they'd find that it'd much better behoove their goals towards pro-life were they to take a more moderate approach and seek compromise. This extremist, draconian manner of seeking complete abortion bans, with no exceptions for rape or incest, is so laughably unreasonable, cruel and out of touch with what the majority of the American electorate wants that it will fail and will be met with equal extremism at the ballot box, especially now that the subject has been placed in the hands of the voters at the state level.

Overwhelmingly, Americans want rights to have an abortion, in some form or another. It's in the high 80s or even 90%+. So fine, these idiots can be as extremist and uncompromising as they want in their desire to regress centuries back, and they are going to continue to be absolutely hammered in every future election by people who wish to live in the modern age. Roe being mandated at the federal level predicated on a nebulous constitutional interpretation, secured by yet held at the mercy of partisan fluctuations of the court, was bound to eventually falter. When it will be enshrined in each state's constitution, not by judges, but by majority vote, it will be much much harder, if not impossible, to eradicate.

Republicans in their dismantling of Roe, they had better be careful what they wish for, because they're going to get it. Americans want access to abortion, and they are going to vote accordingly. Were I pro-life, I would not want to place it in the hands of the voters, it's a losing arena to play in.

We live in a time where a fringe, extremist minority exerts rule over the moderate majority, however.

These people are anti-democratic whackos and they have been appeased and have cheated their way toward essentially ruling over us, and frankly I don't know how we can remove them because their power is cemented and their placement supported by absolutely massive financial mechanisms and corporations.

I am very worried. Especially given the dissatisfaction people have with Biden and the appeal of third-part candidates spoilers. Vote for Biden, or vote for Trump. There is no viable third choice right now.

Two different subjects.

If Trump manages to get re-elected, I throw up my hands and shake my head at the stupidity of the electorate at being so myopic to re-elect someone who demonstrates blatant contempt for their own voices as Americans because they simply want cheaper gas and cannot see past their nose and own selfish interests. This country will get exactly what it deserves, anti-democratic initiatives will be pushed and yes, we'll be in a fight. Abortion will be pushed to be outlawed entirely. But if people vote to put Trump and republicans in power who will take away those rights, they deserve it.

Should we retain a semblance of democracy in this nation and Biden is re-elected, I again, don't have any real concerns. Voices will be heard. People will speak. Abortion will, after some time, come back stronger than before.

I somewhat agree with that take if only for me to cope and move along with my life. My only hesitation with throwing up my hands is that it takes A LONG time and A LOT of effort to undo a law. Trump can do a lot of damage in four years that could arguably take decades to undo. We are still paying for the mistakes Reagan made to mental health, education, and how we treat drug offenders (to name a few things).

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#24  Edited By MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17660 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:

I somewhat agree with that take if only for me to cope and move along with my life. My only hesitation with throwing up my hands is that it takes A LONG time and A LOT of effort to undo a law. Trump can do a lot of damage in four years that could arguably take decades to undo. We are still paying for the mistakes Reagan made to mental health, education, and how we treat drug offenders (to name a few things).

I'm curious, what makes you grant Trump four years? We're not speaking of someone that abides, respects and operates in normative political frameworks and within the guardrails of a democratic system, we're talking about a man who has demonstrated utter contempt and disrespect for that system, and has proven it in his actions in trying to corrupt and dismantle it in his own ambitions to power.

He was thankfully defeated, but now he's poised and looking to potentially regain that power, with a party fully behind him, motivated by an overpowering sense of his unfair persecution. No longer will we be able to count on anyone he appoints in his administration as being ignorant or naïve as to how corrupt he is, he's shown his true colors, and any cabinet he forms will be filled with members operating in the understanding of who he is and what he expects. He further has 85+ indictments, felony charges, hanging over his head and is driven by a massive sense of grievance and vengeance, all of which will be the core driving impetuses behind his manner of "governance", to not only enact his vengeance through political power, but also with every reason never to concede it. He'll have four years, through appointments, to strip any semblance of integrity out of our institutions, with a cabinet, political party, and tens upon tens of millions of Americans cheering it along, blinded by toxic partisanship in their belief he's been so unfairly treated and that it's only just deserts. Christ, he'll have license to do ANYTHING. How in God's name are people wagering or worrying about policy considerations in light of this, or saying, as you are, that, "Well, yeah, he can do a lot of damage over four years", which is a statement that grants to him something that his past actions demonstrate he doesn't deserve? Him doing damage through policy within the constraints of our system will be the least of our worries, the real damage is going to be targeted at destroying and dismantling that very system, or severely compromising it to his advantage.

I've always held disagreements with candidates before, but a potential Trump presidency (at least in these circumstances) is the first time I've actually been genuinely frightened about the outcome of an election and for my country. He is going to be entirely unhinged should he be re-elected, with a party and administration given total license to try to justify anything he desires, borne and constantly excused from a underlying sense of persecution and partisan hatred he's managed to foment and nurture over years.

So when I say I'm throwing up my hands, I'm not talking about damages done in the normative that you suggest will take years to rectify.....I'm talking about our country being destroyed from within by a corrupt, vengeful demagogue who regained power and who has convinced his party and so many people that he has been so unfairly treated, which will enable him to leverage that potency in pursuit of his corruption and ambitions for power to thunderous applause at every turn.

The wisdom of Padme endures!

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#25  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts
@MirkoS77 said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I somewhat agree with that take if only for me to cope and move along with my life. My only hesitation with throwing up my hands is that it takes A LONG time and A LOT of effort to undo a law. Trump can do a lot of damage in four years that could arguably take decades to undo. We are still paying for the mistakes Reagan made to mental health, education, and how we treat drug offenders (to name a few things).

I'm curious, what makes you grant Trump four years? We're not speaking of someone that abides, respects and operates in normative political frameworks and within the guardrails of a democratic system, we're talking about a man who has demonstrated utter contempt and disrespect for that system, and has proven it in his actions in trying to corrupt and dismantle it in his own ambitions to power.

He was thankfully defeated, but now he's poised and looking to potentially regain that power, with a party fully behind him, motivated by an overpowering sense of his unfair persecution. No longer will we be able to count on anyone he appoints in his administration as being ignorant or naïve as to how corrupt he is, he's shown his true colors, and any cabinet he forms will be filled with members operating in the understanding of who he is and what he expects. He further has 85+ indictments, felony charges, hanging over his head and is driven by a massive sense of grievance and vengeance, all of which will be the core driving impetuses behind his manner of "governance", to not only enact his vengeance through political power, but also with every reason never to concede it. He'll have four years, through appointments, to strip any semblance of integrity out of our institutions, with a cabinet, political party, and tens upon tens of millions of Americans cheering it along, blinded by toxic partisanship in their belief he's been so unfairly treated and that it's only just deserts. Christ, he'll have license to do ANYTHING. How in God's name are people wagering or worrying about policy considerations in light of this, or saying, as you are, that, "Well, yeah, he can do a lot of damage over four years", which is a statement that grants to him something that his past actions demonstrate he doesn't deserve? Him doing damage through policy within the constraints of our system will be the least of our worries, the real damage is going to be targeted at destroying and dismantling that very system, or severely compromising it to his advantage.

I've always held disagreements with candidates before, but a potential Trump presidency (at least in these circumstances) is the first time I've actually been genuinely frightened about the outcome of an election and for my country. He is going to be entirely unhinged should he be re-elected, with a party and administration given total license to try to justify anything he desires, borne and constantly excused from a underlying sense of persecution and partisan hatred he's managed to foment and nurture over years.

So when I say I'm throwing up my hands, I'm not talking about damages done in the normative that you suggest will take years to rectify.....I'm talking about our country being destroyed from within by a corrupt, vengeful demagogue who regained power and who has convinced his party and so many people that he has been so unfairly treated, which will enable him to leverage that potency in pursuit of his corruption and ambitions for power to thunderous applause at every turn.

The wisdom of Padme endures!

Read this with the dragon ball narrator as the voice.

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

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#26 deactivated-661eae767772c
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@sargentd said:

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Were you better off under Trump than you are under Biden?

Republicans keep telling me that they are going to lower my taxes. Trump told me his new tax reform was going to lower my taxes.

Since Trump's "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" was signed into law, I've owed the IRS $5000+ every April.

He helped out the lower income earners and the super rich, both his faithful, and then forgot about me (barely upper class).

Trump sucks on social and fiscal issues.

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#27  Edited By mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23034 Posts

@statisticalpc: He's running on regressive tax increases again, so you have that to look forward to.

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Robertos

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#28  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@sargentd said:

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Well Trump was an unmitigated disaster for abortion (topic) and his economy was substantially worse than Biden's.

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MirkoS77

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#29 MirkoS77
Member since 2011 • 17660 Posts

@sargentd said:
@MirkoS77 said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

I somewhat agree with that take if only for me to cope and move along with my life. My only hesitation with throwing up my hands is that it takes A LONG time and A LOT of effort to undo a law. Trump can do a lot of damage in four years that could arguably take decades to undo. We are still paying for the mistakes Reagan made to mental health, education, and how we treat drug offenders (to name a few things).

I'm curious, what makes you grant Trump four years? We're not speaking of someone that abides, respects and operates in normative political frameworks and within the guardrails of a democratic system, we're talking about a man who has demonstrated utter contempt and disrespect for that system, and has proven it in his actions in trying to corrupt and dismantle it in his own ambitions to power.

He was thankfully defeated, but now he's poised and looking to potentially regain that power, with a party fully behind him, motivated by an overpowering sense of his unfair persecution. No longer will we be able to count on anyone he appoints in his administration as being ignorant or naïve as to how corrupt he is, he's shown his true colors, and any cabinet he forms will be filled with members operating in the understanding of who he is and what he expects. He further has 85+ indictments, felony charges, hanging over his head and is driven by a massive sense of grievance and vengeance, all of which will be the core driving impetuses behind his manner of "governance", to not only enact his vengeance through political power, but also with every reason never to concede it. He'll have four years, through appointments, to strip any semblance of integrity out of our institutions, with a cabinet, political party, and tens upon tens of millions of Americans cheering it along, blinded by toxic partisanship in their belief he's been so unfairly treated and that it's only just deserts. Christ, he'll have license to do ANYTHING. How in God's name are people wagering or worrying about policy considerations in light of this, or saying, as you are, that, "Well, yeah, he can do a lot of damage over four years", which is a statement that grants to him something that his past actions demonstrate he doesn't deserve? Him doing damage through policy within the constraints of our system will be the least of our worries, the real damage is going to be targeted at destroying and dismantling that very system, or severely compromising it to his advantage.

I've always held disagreements with candidates before, but a potential Trump presidency (at least in these circumstances) is the first time I've actually been genuinely frightened about the outcome of an election and for my country. He is going to be entirely unhinged should he be re-elected, with a party and administration given total license to try to justify anything he desires, borne and constantly excused from a underlying sense of persecution and partisan hatred he's managed to foment and nurture over years.

So when I say I'm throwing up my hands, I'm not talking about damages done in the normative that you suggest will take years to rectify.....I'm talking about our country being destroyed from within by a corrupt, vengeful demagogue who regained power and who has convinced his party and so many people that he has been so unfairly treated, which will enable him to leverage that potency in pursuit of his corruption and ambitions for power to thunderous applause at every turn.

The wisdom of Padme endures!

Read this with the dragon ball narrator as the voice.

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Re-read my post.

My concerns have absolutely nothing to do with policy or who is a "better" president (which, btw, he wasn't). Proves my point, people still speaking in a semblance of political normalcy. Clueless.

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#30 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@statisticalpc said:
@sargentd said:

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Were you better off under Trump than you are under Biden?

Yup 100% was better off

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#31  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@sargentd said:
@statisticalpc said:
@sargentd said:

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Were you better off under Trump than you are under Biden?

Yup 100% was better off

Infant Deaths Higher in States Where Abortion is Banned: Report (usnews.com)

Worse medical outcomes due to Trump's abortion mess.

Worse economy.

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#32 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8233 Posts

@robertos said:
@sargentd said:
@statisticalpc said:
@sargentd said:

To sum it up, Trump was a better president than Joe Biden and we going to put Trump back in dude.

Were you better off under Trump than you are under Biden?

Yup 100% was better off

Infant Deaths Higher in States Where Abortion is Banned: Report (usnews.com)

Worse medical outcomes due to Trump's abortion mess.

Worse economy.

Well if your not counting the abortion itself as "death" sure...

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#33  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@sargentd said:
@robertos said:
@sargentd said:
@statisticalpc said:

Were you better off under Trump than you are under Biden?

Yup 100% was better off

Infant Deaths Higher in States Where Abortion is Banned: Report (usnews.com)

Worse medical outcomes due to Trump's abortion mess.

Worse economy.

Well if your not counting the abortion itself as "death" sure...

Well abortion bans don't work, they just result in reduced health outcomes and maternal deaths. Since all you're really doing is restricting and reducing healthcare and health quality.

Your stance on this is extremely anti-science and anti-medicine, it's like something from centuries ago....oh shit wait....

The ruling allows an 1864 law in Arizona to stand that made abortion a felony punishable by two to five years in prison for anyone who performs one or helps a woman obtain one.

Also big yikes,

Let’s talk about the guy who helped pass Arizona’s 1864 abortion law - The Washington Post

His next wife was a girl whose name was believed to be Maria v. del Refugio, writes L. Boyd Finch, the author of the journal article. New Mexico’s delegate to Washington, Miguel Otero, was bothered by the union. He “declared that the bride was twelve years old,” Finch writes, “and that Jones had ‘abducted’ her.” Otero petitioned President James Buchanan to fire Jones for the moral failing, but Jones resigned instead.

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#34  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 687 Posts

The only positive thing that I see about this is that it will motivate the feminists to go vote against trump.

Though to be frank, most of them would have done that anyway.

Maybe it will be enough though to make the anti system young adults to go and vote for Biden which I am sure they don't like.

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#35 deactivated-661eae767772c
Member since 2022 • 245 Posts

@robertos: I am convinced that Republicans who support a total ban on abortion are secretly satiating their desire to rape young girls and force them to carry their offspring.

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#36 Elaisse
Member since 2012 • 648 Posts

@robertos: I'm just not for the murder of millions of humans.

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#37  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 972 Posts
@Elaisse said:

@robertos: I'm just not for the murder of millions of humans.

Abortion bans don't work, people get them one way or another. All you're "for" is an increase in third world conditions.

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#38 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178847 Posts

@Elaisse said:

@robertos: I'm just not for the murder of millions of humans.

But you're okay with women being a given a death sentence when the pregnancy is dangerous to their health?