Why Link should talk

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00Joseph00

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#1 00Joseph00
Member since 2004 • 1578 Posts
Why Link Should Talk
in Addition to Audible Dialogue


This is my personal opinion, so that doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. Discussion is all I’m looking for…

I love what Nintendo does. They have a vision, and their vision is to make video games the way they like it and the way they think is right. But there is always room for progress, no one is perfect.

Judging from the title of this thread, you have surmised that I obviously want Link to speak out in the following “The Legend of Zelda” title. I will explain why I think it would be the right way to go.

Nintendo and the people in charge of the direction of Zelda state that the character commonly known as “Link” is kept silent and you can choose your name as his so you can project yourself as him, or immerse yourself into the game more closely. But I believe the direction they are going at the moment contradicts those statements.

My first argument is a simple one; simply that when we see a character, or witness the events of a character from the third-person perspective, we expect to see them show personality. Especially when there are cut scenes or FMV’s, we aren’t necessarily controlling the character anymore and therefore expect them to do their own thing, since they are already doing most of their own thing anyway.

Obviously we are controlling the character most of the time, but the only thing we control are their movements and physical actions. We can’t speak to other characters in the game for them. There is no way for us to truly project one’s self as that on-screen character interacting with others.

A few games actually are closer to taking Nintendo’s philosophy for Zelda more closely. Namely, The Elder Scrolls series, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series, and Fable all give you a bigger voice and choice in the matter when playing the game. Projecting yourself as that on-screen character means making their choices as well. Link makes all his own choices ultimately; sure, we decide how and what to cut with his sword, but his greater goal isn’t for us to choose. We can choose whether to play the game or not, and that’s about all the choice we get.

My second argument branches off from the first one; we obviously have a character who makes his own decisions in the game, whether it be completing temples to gain items to advance or saving Zelda by defeating Ganon, but then we don’t understand why he does it. Are we expected to come up with a reason “as Link” for doing all this from nothing? In other words, do we have to make up a reason for why Link does the things he does? It is more of a distraction really, and not very immersive.

Being a unique character, Link has no real personality, besides being that of a [assumedly] good guy. We aren’t given any choices on how or why he is a good guy. He decides to do the things on his own, but no explanation is given why, mainly because Link doesn’t voice his own opinion. The player can’t be expected to relate with a character making his own decisions for no apparent reason. I am sure most of us find ourselves relating more closely to supportive characters in the series. We can say we relate to Link since he is the strong, courageous good guy, but how else do we relate to him? That’s just about it, he is a shallow character, we can’t be him since he does make his own choices, but we are “expected” to come up with our own inner feelings as to why Link makes his choices, which is more of guess work than relation.

My final argument is that Nintendo should grow with the times. They talk of innovation and growth, but sticking to old formulas won’t get you far with that philosophy. Adding dialogue to a game (and not just audible dialogue in “The Legend of Zelda” series, but having Link speak as well OR making it more Knights of the Old Republic based, where Link has a reason to be silent since we simply talk for him) could essentially be catching up with the times and technology.

Back when the first The Legend of Zelda was released, there was the same format of choosing your character’s name and not seeing/hearing Link speak. That is understandable since it simply was not possible to put lots of personality into a character with the limited technology. A decade later, Ocarina of Time is released and there is no audible dialogue or FMV’s at all, which is understandable since sound and movie files still were fairly large compared to the space the more primitive graphics took. But now that there is a huge amount of space for dialogue and plenty of tricks to fool our minds into believing a character on-screen is a breathing, living person, why not take advantage of that?

My conclusion: Nintendo can and will do what they like, but taking advice from the consumer is important since we know what we want and like. The Legend of Zelda is a franchise that we expect things from. The expectations should definitely be met, but exceeded as well. Twilight Princess came about because we all wanted to see Link as he was in Ocarina of Time, and we all expected - or wanted - it to be perfect. Perfect means whole, and Twilight Princess was missing fundamental things that we expect in this day and age. There is not any reason for avoiding our expectations unless they purposely want to disappoint.

The greatest goal is to do something the way you think is the best for it, and if Nintendo continues to do that, then I’m pleased. But most of us like to see those around us succeed, and we ourselves definitely want to succeed as well. I have one request. I would like Nintendo to experiment at least, and put audible dialogue into “The Legend of Zelda” and to even take it up a notch; give Link spoken dialogue, and his first ever dialogue ever in any of Nintendo’s Zelda games.

So please, voice your opinion and criticize any fault you find in my reasoning or reasons. I'm not looking for "You're stupid", I'm looking for explanations on what you think is wrong. Thanks.
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reggie186

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#2 reggie186
Member since 2004 • 3910 Posts
That's one heck of a post :o
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Kikouken

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#3 Kikouken
Member since 2006 • 15913 Posts
Aahh wall of text. point please!
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00Joseph00

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#4 00Joseph00
Member since 2004 • 1578 Posts
That's one heck of a post :oreggie186


LoL!  Yeah, it was quite a lot and I'm probably going to save it since I put a lot of thought into it.

It's going to my blog, heh.
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schwagnah

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#5 schwagnah
Member since 2004 • 771 Posts
sorry dude, i'd read it.. but im lazy
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baseballboy1989

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#6 baseballboy1989
Member since 2004 • 836 Posts
That has got to be one of the better rational posts I have ever read. Congrats on making it.
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blueteeth

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#7 blueteeth
Member since 2006 • 1158 Posts

not reading that its too long

you can call me lazy

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deathxxshark

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#8 deathxxshark
Member since 2006 • 541 Posts
omg...... *stares at wall of text...
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Linkthedueler

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#9 Linkthedueler
Member since 2003 • 4389 Posts
Posting b4 i read. WHOA!!! WALL o TEXT!!!!! I'ma read it but DAMN! It seems like something you'd put in a magizine or newspaper for an "Ideas" column or something...
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Staccat0

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#10 Staccat0
Member since 2006 • 566 Posts
I pretty much agree. If done WELL voice acting could add depth to the story that is just plain absent from Zelda games. I love Zelda, but the story and characters are pretty shallow when compared with many of the games you mentioned.
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Linkthedueler

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#11 Linkthedueler
Member since 2003 • 4389 Posts
Okay i read it all. You can't really "assume" that the guy thats saving the world is good...you save the world and you ARE the good guy...there's nothing to assume. And i agree with the rest of what you said tho...mostly. I never felt like i didn't connect with link. I felt like he had his own personality even w/o talking (espcieally in WW) but making him talk would emmerge the player into the game better, thats for sure. I'm sure w/ the new zelda we will most likely see voice acting...now if we'll see it with Link idk cuz after being mute for so long it'll be hard to figure out how Link should actually sound b/c placing some genric anime guy voice on him just wouldn't cut it...it'd have to be original...new...okay...i think thats about it...good points:D
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00Joseph00

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#12 00Joseph00
Member since 2004 • 1578 Posts
~ You can't really "assume" that the guy thats saving the world is good...you save the world and you ARE the good guy...there's nothing to assume. ~ Linkthedueler


That's actually my point.  Nintendo wants you to put yourself into Link's shoes, but he IS a good guy.  What if we aren't exactly as "good" as Link is?  We aren't deciding the choices of his character.  We are forced to be Link, Link isn't being us.
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Crucifix_Angel

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#13 Crucifix_Angel
Member since 2006 • 251 Posts
Wow, you posted all that for no reason.
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linkhero1

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#14 linkhero1
Member since 2004 • 16489 Posts

Why he shouldn't

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Linkthedueler

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#15 Linkthedueler
Member since 2003 • 4389 Posts

[QUOTE="Linkthedueler"] ~ You can't really "assume" that the guy thats saving the world is good...you save the world and you ARE the good guy...there's nothing to assume. ~ 00Joseph00


That's actually my point.  Nintendo wants you to put yourself into Link's shoes, but he IS a good guy.  What if we aren't exactly as "good" as Link is?  We aren't deciding the choices of his character.  We are forced to be Link, Link isn't being us.

Ah i gotcha. It's not like Tidus where he's forcing, i guess, his personality on ppl and saying he believes in this and that and its kinda like link has no point of view...that makes sense...you make sense...A LOT in fact:D

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Linkthedueler

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#16 Linkthedueler
Member since 2003 • 4389 Posts

Why he shouldn't

linkhero1

okay...i can promise you that no one will EVER make that mistake again...just...just HORRIBLE...ew...:lol:

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ChesdermanStip

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#17 ChesdermanStip
Member since 2005 • 217 Posts
Link shouldn't talk.
From the perspective of a player you can think of link like Gordan Freeman from HL. He doesn't need to talk, but you understand his opinion and the story progresses wonderfully.

If they can write a whole script without even a text-based dialogue from Link, then it should be as simple a task to voice the dialogue with Links own words absent.

Every other character should speak. Link shouldn't.
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SlysApprentice

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#19 SlysApprentice
Member since 2005 • 2193 Posts
You make some great points, but to me, I think Nintendo could change the hell out of its Zelda series, innovate like crazy, but Link will never get a voice. Nintendo created link with the hoeps of him and the person playing sharing some kind of connection higher than "real world person" to "pixels and data". They wanted how Link felt and his expierences to relfect onto the person wo was playing, to evoke strong emotions deep within.

Take for example A game healvily focused around it's main character's voice, opinions, and personality. A game like GoW. Don't get me wrong, God of War was a great game. However, Kratos goes through all kinds of hell in the game, and to be truthfull I couldn't care the least. Because I am ripping a minatours head of in a fun and innovative way. In Zelda however, everything has a sense of being there, a connection if you will. "Oh no, my friends were kidnapped by some Moblins, I HAVE to save them!" Now, expierence may differ from player to player. Maybe you didn't like those characters very much, you just don't feel much for them. This also goes to show that with the Zelda series your personal feelings towards characters and situations relect from your own personality and prefrences, once again going to show that Nintendo's link works!


Thats just how I feel though.
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hiho24

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#20 hiho24
Member since 2005 • 4052 Posts
Making Link talk would ruin the series.
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Zerox4567

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#21 Zerox4567
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts

I personaly think that link doesnt need to talk. But I do think that the rest of the characters in the game should talk especialy for the cut scenes and the important stuff.

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Eggshnyne

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#22 Eggshnyne
Member since 2006 • 613 Posts

Why he shouldn't

linkhero1

That was just mean...:( Lol.

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FPSjohn

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#23 FPSjohn
Member since 2005 • 993 Posts
If link were to talk then the coolness of him would somewhat vanish. People are going to make fun of his voice no matter what. It's just human nature.
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Kakua_Omari

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#25 Kakua_Omari
Member since 2005 • 939 Posts
You make a good point, but at the same time I can see why he doesn't speak. Think about it. If they do make him talk, you'll expect that voice for every single game, but theres the dilema, for the most part each zelda game has a different link and so you would have some continuity problems. Sides, when has reading ever killed anyone? I'd be willing to read if it meant the game was longer and more challenging rather than have a full voice cast, short and easy.
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Truewiseblade

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#26 Truewiseblade
Member since 2005 • 2607 Posts
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the whole 'everyone in Zelda should talk' idea. After using text based communication for as long as they have, Nintendo have learned how to use the medium effectively to portry every concieveable emotion, well. TP was filled with a lot more character than most games with VA. Second, If Pokemon's recent VA cast is anything to go by, then Nintendo would most probably pick the cheapest actors they can find. It'll be the CDi games all over again.
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The_T66

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#27 The_T66
Member since 2004 • 391 Posts
I have allways been and will probably allways be one of those who yould hate it if Link talked, i don't want some lame actors voice spoiling my imagination about how his voice sounds and what kind of answers he tells, it would totally ruin it for me even if made serious and probably for alot of other ppl too.

And about deciding what he is supposed to say and be like..... when i play Zelda i get the feeling we are beeing told a story about a hero and not actually deciding the story since we can't choose not to save hyrule and so forth and that's the way i like it.

We are part of a story beeing told and not making our own, and that's why Link should not have a voice or be able to choose what to say.

And on a side note: (Plz watch the old cartoon Zelda before you say you want him to talk and you will be discurraged :P)


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renagadez187

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#28 renagadez187
Member since 2005 • 2088 Posts
I don't know about him talking. I mean, what would he sound like? And will anyone like the voice? And if they don't like it, are they going to hate the future installments of Zelda because of the voice overs? I think they should keep the text for a bit longer and then see what happens.
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deactivated-5f6dd6241fdcc

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#29 deactivated-5f6dd6241fdcc
Member since 2003 • 6249 Posts
That's pretty well written and well thought out. Some nice ideas there. I wouldn't mind Link talking. But only time will tell. Nice read.
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woodsa23

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#30 woodsa23
Member since 2005 • 270 Posts

I'm not sure I agree with your second point, namely that a character needs to articulate their motivations for them to make sense. I don't need Link to soliloquise to the camera to know that he's fated to be the hero of time, or that Hyrule needs saving. "I must make haste to the Goron mines, lest evil triumph!" His reason for going is obvious. 

For me, Link's silence is an important part of the series: the kid is mysterious, and we're not supposed to know much about him. That's especially true when you consider the fact that we're not entirely sure about the time line: would WW Link have the same voice as TP Link?

Having said all that, I do think it's important that the plot of the next game does something to differentiate itself from what's come before. But I think that can be achieved without squashing the Link mystery. I'm all for the rest of the characters being voiced, too, providing that it's done well. I take text any day over lousy voice acting, Shenmue II being the perfect example.

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deactivated-5f6dd6241fdcc

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#31 deactivated-5f6dd6241fdcc
Member since 2003 • 6249 Posts
But the problem is... They would probably do something terrible with his voice. You know japanese people... they allways like to "go over the top". *looks at Zelda cartoon*... yeah.
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MasterAsh42

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#32 MasterAsh42
Member since 2005 • 312 Posts
Different strokes for different folks. . .

I know I'm not Link, and he's not me, but that doesn't stop my mind or voice from rambling at the sight of the things he experiences in his titles. Granted, spoken dialog wouldn't stop me either, but any commentary on my part would then likely shift from "in the moment" to "spectator," from "That fiend!" to "He's angry now."

Ultimately, neither perspective carries more worth than the other if the game's design or narritive maximizes their respective strengths. But one of those two certainly makes Hyrule and its legends all the more enchanting. . .

. . .for me, anyway.
 
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Litchie

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#33 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34770 Posts
Why Link shouldn't talk:

  • He doesn't have to.
  • I doubt it would make the series better.
  • It would just feel awkward.
  • I like mute heroes.


I welcome voices to everyone else in the game, though.
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andrewkozis

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#34 andrewkozis
Member since 2005 • 3336 Posts
lol im not gnna read that either but great effort anyway lol!
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tengen23

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#35 tengen23
Member since 2004 • 438 Posts
This is my personal opinion, so that doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong. 00Joseph00
This is just a general point because sometimes it drived me crazy the way people talk. It has nothing to do with Zelda. While it may be true that "X is my personal opinion" does not imply "X is either right or wrong" you seem to be saying something much stronger than this. You are claiming that since "X is my personal opinion" it follows that "X is neither right nor wrong". It is clearly quite different to say (1) that opinions are not necessarily right or wrong to saying (2) that opinions are neither right nor wrong. The first one is just a way of being humble and recognizing our fallibility as humans. The second one implicitly assumes a controversial thesis, one that I consider to be false. For example, lots of people have opinions about whether the Earth is flat or round, but it would not follow from "It is just my opinion that the Earth is flat" to the conclusion "it is neither true nor false that the Earth is flat". In this case, we can all see that, as a matter of fact, the person's opinion happens to be false and we can prove it with modern technology by taking photos of the Earth from space. Just to reiterate, opinions can and often are either true or false. In other words, you don't get to simply remove yourself from the scrutiny of others by saying "its my opinion, so you can't argue against it." Droppin' knowledge...
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SakuraNinja

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#36 SakuraNinja
Member since 2006 • 170 Posts
Seriously, I doubt that Nintendo could find someone whose voice would be PERFECT for Link. And that's what it would have to be--perfect. For such a well-known and beloved hero, the voice would need to be flawless. Who can pull that off? All in all, I'd rather have him stay silent. 
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Lub1

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#37 Lub1
Member since 2005 • 517 Posts
Link is mute, I like it like he is right now. It's like someone in this forum said before. Gordon Freeman from HL didn't say a single word, but yet we can relate to him and feel his world, his understanding of the world? Why? Trough the other characters. The other characters in the game fill up the void of Link's being mute. A voice is something that can be done very wrong. For example if translated it's another voice, another interpretation of Links's words. And if Link speaks, all the other characters should speak too all the time. Which would be very time-consuming and very costly for the makers of zelda...
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Cesar_Barba

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#38 Cesar_Barba
Member since 2003 • 3665 Posts
[QUOTE="00Joseph00"]I love what Nintendo does. They have a vision, and their vision is to make video games the way they like it and the way they think is right. But there is always room for progress, no one is perfect.


Seriously, I doubt that Nintendo could find someone whose voice would be PERFECT for Link. And that's what it would have to be--perfect. For such a well-known and beloved hero, the voice would need to be flawless. Who can pull that off? All in all, I'd rather have him stay silent. SakuraNinja

That is what I was thinking my self, there could never be a perfect VA for Link, not to my liking anyway. Like may people have mentioned before, I like Link to be mute. I prefer reading over listening to voice acting on such a series. Though to be honest, my girlfriend, while watching me play Kingdom Hearts 2, mentioned that she liked games with voice acting, more than those with only text (She only plays puzzle games, go figure). Many people would like to have Link talk, not I, I think all we need are those great facial expressions he has, one of the many reasons why I loved Wind Waker so much.
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Wintry_Flutist

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#39 Wintry_Flutist
Member since 2005 • 14834 Posts

Sorry, I'd read that, but I just don't want Link to say something I wouldn't or in a way I wouldn't.

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merch

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#40 merch
Member since 2005 • 4235 Posts
link cant talk its a action adventure rpg he will never talk icould see zelda talking though
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Crisis_Eye

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#41 Crisis_Eye
Member since 2006 • 1554 Posts
Nintendo would have to make his voice perfect if they wanted to add a voice for him and other characters. If not it would just be a train wreck. I feel that the characters have no emotion without voices. It still is an amazing game but it can be improved if done correctly. I don't see why they always tell you to add your name, we all know it's Link, so they should just stick with the story and keep it Link.
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armytaco

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#42 armytaco
Member since 2007 • 298 Posts
I completley agree, but nintendo has went with the " no talking thing" for so long that it's just too late...
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Nick_Blackdar

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#43 Nick_Blackdar
Member since 2006 • 165 Posts

I do see your point.  But I would rather him stay a mute for the most part. It just wouldn't feel quite the same if he suddenly talked.  But I do think they should give a better explanation of the time line for the Zelda series, as well as other things (characters and such).  It would give the series the more depth that it needs.

  Eggshnyne

I know what you mean about the time line for the Zelda series, some time ago I found a video in youtube in which they present their own theory of how each game connects, after seeing it, even it being just a theory, it added some depth for me.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXN1BF65WjI

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potatoman23

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#44 potatoman23
Member since 2007 • 85 Posts
i agree with this post link needs more personality and you should be the one making most of the desicions. it seems like every new game coming out has voiceovers and legend of zelda should at the very least make the other computers talk if not link. but i also think if they dont do a 100% perfect job on links voice its possible they could ruin the series
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nintendo-4life

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#45 nintendo-4life
Member since 2004 • 18281 Posts
i believe my biggest, and many's at that, is that voice acting will ruin a certain kind of magic of the zelda series, if the series gets voice acting skills like say an anime then i would KILL myself, the series is one of the most non-cliche'd games around BECAUSE of the fact of the excellent dialogue and no voice acting, if they PERFECT IT like everything in the game then yes, it's a welcome feature, if not, then sorry i would rather read. BTW i know this thread is about link talking but i just wanted to get that off of my chest:P , now on to link, should he talk? yes, but if he does that then .... i dunno, i guess i don't want him to say anything out of place, i guess if he used more facial expressions and he keeps being silent is the best of both worlds.
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urine72

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#46 urine72
Member since 2003 • 1043 Posts

First off, for all the kids in the room..... please dont waste our time, or this guys time with stupid comments about "walls of text" or "im not reading this". The adults here would like to have a civilised conversation, if you want somthing to read that is more at your speed i can give you my copy of Clifford the big red dog.

allright, while i agree with you on some aspects i have to disagree on others. I would love to see all the characters other than link have full audio dialoge, much like fable or Star wars kotor.

Nintendo will never give there main characters voices imho.

and there was dialoge in a zelda game befor........ Navi " hey " and " listen " haha

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yellonet

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#47 yellonet
Member since 2004 • 7768 Posts
Zelda games is all about you, the player, being Link.
If he were to talk that would ruin that illusion.
That's why I never ever want to hear a word out of the dude in greens mouth.
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rusty_13

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#48 rusty_13
Member since 2005 • 84 Posts

Zelda games is all about you, the player, being Link.
If he were to talk that would ruin that illusion.
That's why I never ever want to hear a word out of the dude in greens mouth.yellonet

i agree with you... it would feel wrong

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KJAX90

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#49 KJAX90
Member since 2006 • 8809 Posts
LMAO....the first 20 posts are all like "Teh Wallzorz of Tects"
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remblade

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#50 remblade
Member since 2003 • 537 Posts
Link should absolutely talk but when I imagine him speaking all I can think about is Jak from Jak II for the PS2 and the first words he says, "I'm going to Kill Praxis". Where he never spoke before and the first words you hear are of him wanting to kill someone. Of course I don't think people would want to hear good 'ol Link with killing intent in his voice. But I'd like to hear him get pissed off. It would make me want to play and get to ganon that much more.