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TKandPBC

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#1 TKandPBC
Member since 2005 • 1431 Posts
Well guys, I don't post often. This isn't meant to be an attack on the 3DS at all, and I'm unsure whether or not this kind of stuff belongs in system wars, but here goes... The idea of the 3DS doesn't make much sense to me. If we look back at the evolution of console hardware in the past, we see that hardware has generally been dictated by the software. The business portion aside, new hardware is brought about to fill developer need. It's been that way for years, with deviations usually resulting in failure (I'm looking at you Virtual Boy). The DS was one to successfully break the mold, but it relied on a very sound, albeit slightly gimmicky concept that was more accessible than innovative. Not to make light of it at all, the accessibility provided was incredible, and sales reflected that. However, I wouldn't liken the 3DS to the DS. The DS was a powerful enough piece of tech to allow us to ignore the often misused touch controls. We didn't need overkill for a handheld, and it was a good enough package with decent enough touch support. On the other hand, I think the 3DS is incredibly similar to the Wii. Both deviate from the "hardware dictated by software" trend, as I'm sure there wasn't a crowd of devs scratching and clawing for motion controls or 3D. But what I see in both are consoles that rely on that gimmick to get by. The DS didn't rely on touch controls as much as the Wii and 3DS relied on their respective gimmicks. One can argue that the Wii`s gimmick was a commercial success, and I`d agree with that 100%. Like the DS, the Wii brought an incredible amount of accessibility to video games. However, due to the reliance on motion controls, and hardware not brought about by developer need, we saw a significant drop in third party quality. I see the 3DS in a very similar light, minus one big thing - 3D doesn't add accessibility in any way. Not only that, but in what way can 3D meaningfully enhance the experience? I mean, sure, some games look prettier in 3D. But Nintendo has made it a requirement for games to be completely playable in 2D. So now what? This means that the 3DS's most significant feature can never be made to be an integral part of any game. At least for the Wii and DS, the potential was there for the respective gimmicks to be taken advantage of. Some of the Madden games on the Wii, and Metroid on the DS are just a few examples of successful implementation. But how can 3D be the central feature of a console, on which the games are not allowed to be the central feature? So what's left? Well unlike the Wii, I can see developers saying "screw it" to the 3D and just trying to put out a typical multiplatform game on the 3DS and NGP. I can see a lot of potential in the AR feature. Otherwise, I'm just confused as to how 3rd party devs will take advantage of the hardware. Sure, Nintendo will release a good amount of quality content on it. And, while I'd usually never question Nintendo on handheld design, isn't a handheld that you have to hold and look at in a rigid fashion, generally defeating the purpose of handheld gaming? Iunno guys, just thoughts.
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TankZorz

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#2 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts

I don't see where you are getting this "hardware dictated by software trend." It may be true with PCs because devs can write games that require the newest, fastest _____ card. With gaming consoles it has always been the other way around. Once a console is released, developers have to conform to its specifications or the game won't run.

How was the DS not innovative? Sure, at first I thought it looked stupid, but once franchises that I was interested in started coming out for it, I jumped on the bandwagon. There have been many games that effectively use both the screen and take advantage of the touch screen.

As far as the 3DS goes, there is more to it than just the 3D. It has received a major upgrade in terms of its graphical capabilities, connectivity, etc. So, yeah, maybe some developers will say "screw the 3D" but I don't really see the problem. IF they release a quality game, good for them, otherwise, I don't care because I won't buy it and hopefully they will learn from their experience and make a better game next time.

NOT requiring 3D is a good move on Nintendo's part. Many people simply cannot see 3D for whatever reason and others can't handle this type of 3D without side-effects.

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TKandPBC

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#3 TKandPBC
Member since 2005 • 1431 Posts
Let me clarify, the DS was innovative, but what it brought to the table was more for accessibility over innovation. I was hoping not to go in depth on the "hardware dictated by software" because I thought it would be long. If you look at the past generations, and what ushered in new generations, it was generally because there were things developers wanted to do that they simply couldn't. What you're describing is post-release. After a console is released, devs have to use what's given to them, but up until recently, consoles were designed with the idea of removing technical hurdles the previous gen had. Capacity, graphical capabilities, processing power, etc. It's the entire reason why this gen is slated to last for much longer than previous generations. There isn't a need for new hardware. While there's no doubt the PS4 and Xbox 10805 are in development, they will sit there until there's a call for new hardware from the devs. In this sense, Nintendo has been the only company to break the mold by making developers conform to certain ideas (i.e. motion controls). "As far as the 3DS goes, there is more to it than just the 3D" That's my biggest point. Is there really? If you were to remove the 3D from the console, is it still a competent piece of tech compared to the NGP (or whatever else)? More importantly, a lot of people will buy the 3DS because of the 3D. Of course it's more than that, but the focus of the console is on the 3D. It's the defining feature. While I agree it's good the games don't have to be in 3D, but the requirement of having every game being playable in 2D means that a dev cannot base a game around the console's central feature. I don't know how that game would be like, but if the idea is to allow innovation, why cap it in such a way?
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TankZorz

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#4 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts
From what I've heard and seen, yes it's a competent piece of hardware. Many people can't use the 3D and they are still enjoying it. I frequently play without the 3D and I'm still impressed with the tech. Comparing it to unreleased consoles is pointless. Have you played one yet?
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TKandPBC

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#5 TKandPBC
Member since 2005 • 1431 Posts
I've spent some time with Street Fighter and i enjoyed it. I played the submarine game and thought it was a missed opportunity by the devs. Maybe the marketing has gotten to me. The push by nintendo seems to be the 3D. Playing it without the 3D seems comparable to people whipping out their NGC controllers to play Wii games.
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TankZorz

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#6 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts
Nintendo is pushing the 3D in marketing but they aren't forcing it on the devs because they understand that 3D is not available to everyone. The 3DS has only been out for 2 weeks. Give developers some time to get used to the hardware. We will undoubtedly see some clever developers take advantage of the new capabilities.
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F0urTwenty

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#7 F0urTwenty
Member since 2010 • 1842 Posts
*facepalm*
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JustPlainLucas

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#8 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts
The machine can still be enjoyed by people who don't want to play it in 3D, just as every PS3 owner doesn't play games in 3D. The upside is that those who want to dabble in 3D gaming can without having to pay two grand for a 3D TV and a hundred to hundred and fifty for glasses. This "gimmick", as you call it, is actually an invitation for consumers to check out the 3DS. "Come for the 3D, stay for the 3DS." Once the software kicks off (and the DS by no means hit the ground running), gamers who have no interest in continuing to play 3D will still have a terrific system to enjoy like they did with the DS. And make no mistake... the 3DS is no Virtual Boy, but that's a whole nother thread.
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DustinTheWind

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#9 DustinTheWind
Member since 2002 • 4392 Posts

Playing it without the 3D seems comparable to people whipping out their NGC controllers to play Wii games. TKandPBC

How's that? The 3DS has graphics far superior to the DS. The 3DS has the analog stick and the widescreen display. Better connectivity, will soon have Netflix, ect. Yes, the 3D is the main 'draw' or 'marketable feature' of the system, but I think people have taken it too seriously and let it overshadow the sheer graphical upgrade that the 3DS brings.

I also think that developers can still take full advantage of the 3D graphics while still having a 2D mode. Just look at Pilotwings, where the 3D effect can help you judge distances better. You can turn the 3D off, and you'll lose that slight edge, but the developers were still able to use the 3D in a way that helps with gameplay a little, while maintaining a 2D mode. This will be true of future games as well, and we probably won't see all of the ways the 3D can be implemented for the first year or so, because developers are still figuring the console out (this is true of any console's features and graphics). Some devs may make games without the 3D, but as someone else mentioned, who cares as long as the game's good. I'm sure plenty of 3rd parties (like Capcom) will continue to develop 3D games.

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KBFloYd

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#10 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

*facepalm*F0urTwenty

*facepalm* for me too

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DustinTheWind

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#11 DustinTheWind
Member since 2002 • 4392 Posts

Don't you love it when a bunch of people give counterpoints to someone's thread and then that person just disappears without commenting further

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SRTtoZ

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#12 SRTtoZ
Member since 2009 • 4800 Posts

Short answer: Its because the 3d fad was growing and growing and nintendo wanted to cash in on it...People can beleive it or not but its true.

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DustinTheWind

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#13 DustinTheWind
Member since 2002 • 4392 Posts

Short answer: Its because the 3d fad was growing and growing and nintendo wanted to cash in on it...People can beleive it or not but its true.

SRTtoZ

Nintendo's been working on 3D for nearly 20 years, so no, that's not the "reason" for 3D. You can read about all the different attempts and experiments they've made with 3D on the 3DS's developer section.

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dzimm

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#14 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 6615 Posts

Short answer: Its because the 3d fad was growing and growing and nintendo wanted to cash in on it...People can beleive it or not but its true.

SRTtoZ
Nintendo added the 3D feature to the 3DS (which, of course, wasn't called the 3DS at the time) about a year before the 3D "fad" had really kicked in. In one of the "Iwata Asks" articles at the official Nintendo website, Miyamoto marveled at the timing of the 3DS release because they hadn't anticipated that 3D would be so popular right now.
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TankZorz

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#15 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts
[QUOTE="SRTtoZ"]

Short answer: Its because the 3d fad was growing and growing and nintendo wanted to cash in on it...People can beleive it or not but its true.

dzimm
Nintendo added the 3D feature to the 3DS (which, of course, wasn't called the 3DS at the time) about a year before the 3D "fad" had really kicked in. In one of the "Iwata Asks" articles at the official Nintendo website, Miyamoto marveled at the timing of the 3DS release because they hadn't anticipated that 3D would be so popular right now.

Nobody pays attention to when companies start working on projects; they only care when the product was released.
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TKandPBC

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#16 TKandPBC
Member since 2005 • 1431 Posts
I appreciate all the responses guys. I figure I focused too much on the 3D aspect of the console without regard for its other capabilities. I'd compare it to Homefront. A lot of marketing went into showing off the game's single player, when in reality the single player experience was tepid at best and the multiplayer is generally thought to be very good. It offered something different than what it claimed to be offering, but it's not a *bad* thing as much as it is slightly confusing. I mean, here I am playing it again, but this time without the preconceived idea that I'm going to have a 3D experience. I'm having a much better time. Go figure xD I still have doubts as to whether the 3D will be utilized properly though. Just think about it for a second. What game cannot be done without the use of 3D? Halo wouldn't be Halo without Xbox Live. Uncharted could only be done on the PS3. Other M would be a clunky mess if done without the Wiimote (or rather, a clunkier mess =P). How has this technology increased our capabilities?
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TankZorz

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#17 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts
Only time will tell... A lot of developers won't try very hard and it will show but when a company really puts in the time to make a great game we will be blown away.
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KBFloYd

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#18 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

How has this technology increased our capabilities? TKandPBC

it makes the games more immersive.. it gives sense of depth not found in even 1080p plasmas...
its so cool to look at ..its more than a gimmick imo..too bad not everybody likes it because of eye strain.

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TankZorz

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#19 TankZorz
Member since 2004 • 1836 Posts
If those people were more patient, and slowly adjusted their eyes to the new tech, they would be just as impressed as everyone else. I realize this isn't an option for some but I see too many people writing off the 3D after 5 minutes because it strained their eyes.
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dzimm

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#20 dzimm
Member since 2006 • 6615 Posts

I still have doubts as to whether the 3D will be utilized properly though. Just think about it for a second. What game cannot be done without the use of 3D? Halo wouldn't be Halo without Xbox Live. Uncharted could only be done on the PS3. Other M would be a clunky mess if done without the Wiimote (or rather, a clunkier mess =P). How has this technology increased our capabilities? TKandPBC

Was the 3D ever supposed to be for anything other than eye candy?

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MonkeySpot

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#21 MonkeySpot
Member since 2010 • 6070 Posts

I've spent some time with a 3DS, and while it's impressive on a tech level (3D without glasses IS very cool), I have ended up playing everything in 2D. I hope they make some games with a reason for the 3D past the "Oh Neet-O" factor, but at this point games like "MonkeyBall" are simply better using the 2D and the stick as apposed to using the motion control and the 3D. It's an interseting accomplishment to be sure, but at present there's nothing in the software which makes the 3DS any more functional (for ME, perhaps not YOU) than my Lite.

Sweet gizmo, but I really need some software to make it fly. Games like "PilotWing Resort" are tech demos on steroids. I think for anyone to make a call on the thing as a success or a failure at this time is far too premature.

I remain hopeful that the devs will come up with an actual USE for the 3D part of it.

:)

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riariases

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#22 riariases
Member since 2007 • 2335 Posts

Go ahead and try the 3DS before judging. The 3D effect isn't just "nice looking", it's giving you depth perception. I don't know why console designers have never thought about depth perception in video games since now. What activities do you do in real life with one eye opened? Don't make assumptions. I could assume things pretty much like you're doing. I could assume that since you don't think depth perception is important, you don't play sports or do much anything active which means I could assume you're obese, which I could then assume you hate you're country because obese people in the US alone are costing their government up to $400 billion dollars a year in costs. Haha, nah i'm just elaborating some crazy sh**. But serious, you don't know. Go actually try the 3DS.

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spike6958

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#23 spike6958
Member since 2005 • 6701 Posts
I think we need to wait for the big games to start hitting before we really start judging the console.The games out now are OK, and give you a small taste but there is nothing out that's really able to show just what the 3D can truly do, but that will change once the big titles start to hit, personally I am waiting for Paper Mario, that is going to be amazing in 3D.