Link's run on Wii has been less than kind.

If I were Link, I'd be pissed. Both Zelda releases on Wii are poorly timed, IMO.

Twilight Princess was essentially just a Gamecube game, so it hardly even counts as a Wii release.

This leaves Skyward Sword, the only full Zelda game on Wii, will be out when rumors and newsabout "Project Cafe" are buzzing around. While this will certainly not hold back Zelda fans from the game, it sure seems like it could cast a shadow over the release.

Iknow Skyward Sword will still do very well, it just seems that Link got shafted this generation of consoles.

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

TP was great, and SS seems to be shaping up quite nice.

TP was great, and SS seems to be shaping up quite nice.

LaytonsCat

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

SuperFlakeman

I loved TP, and since OoT is coming in June, expect SS in August... or holiday season included in a awesome bundle.

Keyword: If

nothing is certain yet

To me Twilight Princess was a Wii game. It feels just as much a Wii game as almost any other game out there. Sure it's an enhanced port of a Gamecube game, but it was the definitive version of it and even came out first. If people didn't know the game's history they would never know the difference. I guess timing could have been better for Zelda this gen, but it wasn't that bad and we still got 2 great games (well probably as we have't seen SS yet).

I want to know what the hell takes them so long to make Zelda games. They have shallow stories, similar mechanics and items every game, and no voice acting. What is taking so long to do?

I want to know what the hell takes them so long to make Zelda games. They have shallow stories, similar mechanics and items every game, and no voice acting. What is taking so long to do?

WreckEm711

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

I want to know what the hell takes them so long to make Zelda games. They have shallow stories, similar mechanics and items every game, and no voice acting. What is taking so long to do?

Sepewrath

Thats the thing though, Zelda games are in no way super intricate with level design, it's been how long now since TP came out? There has been beyond more than enough time to finish what is a lot of recycled content anyways.

The level design in every Zelda game is incredibly intricate, have you ever tried to make something? Or even seen something created? Here's an example, take LBP, here's a game where they did all the work for you, all you have to do is put the puzzle pieces together. The more meticulous levels, take weeks, maybe even months to make and your asking what's the hold up from something that is being made from scratch? You grossly underestimate the amount of work it takes to do these things. I would recommend you try to make a game and see how fast you can do it. Sepewrath

Oh lord spare me the "Well if you dont like it you try making it!" crap. I'll give you the same bs next time I see you complain about anything on here :P

Compared to other GAMES, no, Zelda isn't that intricate, it's one of those where the game is better than the sum of it's parts, and none of the parts are particularly deep.

Yes,i agree there weren't many TLoZ games for the Wii.

Just one actually.

No,TP does NOT really count as a Wii game.

It's just a port of a Gamecube game,a MIRRORED port at that(ill never get over right handed Link...esp. now that he will be right handed at SS!).

So yes,but other games like Star Fox,F-Zero and Yoshi haven't had a chance at all/

So be glad that we'll have Skyward Sword.

Well you can believe that if you want, there's no truth to it, but knock yourself out. And I didn't say anything about not liking it, I said, you simply speak from blissful ignorance(don't take that as an insult) you talk like its making a LBP level, that's ridiculous. You could try to develop a game that is a total clone of another one and I bet you would change your tune. Sepewrath

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

*sigh* Well I tried, your clearly not going to get it and are going to make no effort to figure it out, you can believe what you want, its not going to change what the reality is. I mean if you just actually read you own post, you would figure it out, but whatever. Sepewrath

Shocking that you would reply with no argument at all, again. But I mean if you have ANY solid reasons as to why games twice as complicated as Zelda come out in half the time, I'd love to hear it, because a lazy gamecube port in 2006 being all we have on the Wii in 2011 is pretty sad on the developers part.

Better question: Who thinkss that SS will be delayed to be a launch title on project cafe? :P

I want to know what the hell takes them so long to make Zelda games. They have shallow stories, similar mechanics and items every game, and no voice acting. What is taking so long to do?

WreckEm711

Took them 2.5 years, even with the engine built, to make SMG2 and it does exactly what you described.

Yeah they where working on 2x full DS Zelda games in the meantime so it's not like they've spent 5 years on SS :)

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]Well you can believe that if you want, there's no truth to it, but knock yourself out. And I didn't say anything about not liking it, I said, you simply speak from blissful ignorance(don't take that as an insult) you talk like its making a LBP level, that's ridiculous. You could try to develop a game that is a total clone of another one and I bet you would change your tune. WreckEm711

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

First of all, i'm pretty sure the Zelda team was also working on Spirit Tracks during the development of Skyward Sword. Secondly, i don't think they started development on it straight away after Twilight Princess, and thirdly theres a reason why no game like Zelda has come close to capturing the audience Zelda has. They don't just rush the games out to the market, they take their time and make masterpieces. There's not one bad zelda game, and that's saying something for a series that's spanned 25 years now.

Zelda doesn't need to change the gameplay, there's nothing out there that really matches Zelda so why would you get rid of that when there's no replacement? I'm not exactly sure that you was suggesting the gameplay should change, but it sure sounded like you was not happy with how the game is "simplistic" or whatever else you implyed.

Yes i would have liked the Zelda game to be out by now, and i think maybe they should have focused more on the Wii version and got it out late last year instead. However they haven't, and as with any Zelda game it'll be worth the wait because they put years of love into the games. It's not like their sitting around doing nothing, they want the game out as soon as possible as much as we do.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]Well you can believe that if you want, there's no truth to it, but knock yourself out. And I didn't say anything about not liking it, I said, you simply speak from blissful ignorance(don't take that as an insult) you talk like its making a LBP level, that's ridiculous. You could try to develop a game that is a total clone of another one and I bet you would change your tune. Kusimeka

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

First of all, i'm pretty sure the Zelda team was also working on Spirit Tracks during the development of Skyward Sword. Secondly, i don't think they started development on it straight away after Twilight Princess, and thirdly theres a reason why no game like Zelda has come close to capturing the audience Zelda has. They don't just rush the games out to the market, they take their time and make masterpieces. There's not one bad zelda game, and that's saying something for a series that's spanned 25 years now.

Zelda doesn't need to change the gameplay, there's nothing out there that really matches Zelda so why would you get rid of that when there's no replacement? I'm not exactly sure that you was suggesting the gameplay should change, but it sure sounded like you was not happy with how the game is "simplistic" or whatever else you implyed.

Yes i would have liked the Zelda game to be out by now, and i think maybe they should have focused more on the Wii version and got it out late last year instead. However they haven't, and as with any Zelda game it'll be worth the wait because they put years of love into the games. It's not like their sitting around doing nothing, they want the game out as soon as possible as much as we do.

I never said I wanted them to change anything about it :? Zelda is a simple action adventure game thats better than the sum of its parts, and thats worked for years. Bottom line is that infinitely more intricate games like Bioshock, Assassins Creed, Fallout 3, etc, are all developed in less time and they have way more to worry about than the Zelda team does. I don't think there is anything wrong with Zelda, I'm just realistic about the fact that Zelda is and always has been an action adventure game with simplistic components, and there is absolutely no reason for the games to take as long to make as they do, it's just poor developing.

If I were Link, I'd be pissed. Both Zelda releases on Wii are poorly timed, IMO.

Twilight Princess was essentially just a Gamecube game, so it hardly even counts as a Wii release.

This leaves Skyward Sword, the only full Zelda game on Wii, will be out when rumors and newsabout "Project Cafe" are buzzing around. While this will certainly not hold back Zelda fans from the game, it sure seems like it could cast a shadow over the release.

Iknow Skyward Sword will still do very well, it just seems that Link got shafted this generation of consoles.

fool_man_dude

well at least it's better then his DS run
can't say I am fan of em.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]Well you can believe that if you want, there's no truth to it, but knock yourself out. And I didn't say anything about not liking it, I said, you simply speak from blissful ignorance(don't take that as an insult) you talk like its making a LBP level, that's ridiculous. You could try to develop a game that is a total clone of another one and I bet you would change your tune. WreckEm711

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

It doesn't happen.

Those dungeons take a TON of planning and testing to make sure that it's impossible to get stuck, no matter what kind of crap the unpredictable player will try. That takes a lot of time, especially since each "mistake" that can be made by the player in a tentative dungeon design requires adjustments, maybe even to the design of the whole dungeon. Think about the Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask, for example. I can't even imagine designing that thing.

And if you're still not convinced, read the Iwata Asks about Twilight Princess. Midna wasn't even in the game until well into the development process. So just think about all of the gameplay and story adjustments that needed to be made in order to incorporate Midna.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]Well you can believe that if you want, there's no truth to it, but knock yourself out. And I didn't say anything about not liking it, I said, you simply speak from blissful ignorance(don't take that as an insult) you talk like its making a LBP level, that's ridiculous. You could try to develop a game that is a total clone of another one and I bet you would change your tune. JordanElek

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

It doesn't happen.

Those dungeons take a TON of planning and testing to make sure that it's impossible to get stuck, no matter what kind of crap the unpredictable player will try. That takes a lot of time, especially since each "mistake" that can be made by the player in a tentative dungeon design requires adjustments, maybe even to the design of the whole dungeon. Think about the Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask, for example. I can't even imagine designing that thing.

And if you're still not convinced, read the Iwata Asks about Twilight Princess. Midna wasn't even in the game until well into the development process. So just think about all of the gameplay and story adjustments that needed to be made in order to incorporate Midna.

The thing is, these are development hurdles that EVERY development team faces in ANY game, it's not particular to Zelda. I absolutely adore Nintendo's attention to polishing their games, but it's getting ridiculous, TP was finished well before it was released they just delayed it to launch on the Wii, so by the time SS launches it will be closer to five years. Even Red Dead Redemption barely touched that and it was scrapped twice during development.

The thing is, these are development hurdles that EVERY development team faces in ANY gameWreckEm711

Also, Skyward Sword has motion controls to perfect. Majora's Mask only took two years to complete, but it only had four dungeons and reused pretty much all of the assets from OoT. Plus, we haven't really seen how SS will turn out. Much of their time might have been spent experimenting with how to change up the structure until they found something that worked. Most games don't have the pedigree or level of expectations or tradition of a Zelda game, so that process probably isn't as gigantic in other games.

I never said I wanted them to change anything about it :? Zelda is a simple action adventure game thats better than the sum of its parts, and thats worked for years. Bottom line is that infinitely more intricate games like Bioshock, Assassins Creed, Fallout 3, etc, are all developed in less time and they have way more to worry about than the Zelda team does. I don't think there is anything wrong with Zelda, I'm just realistic about the fact that Zelda is and always has been an action adventure game with simplistic components, and there is absolutely no reason for the games to take as long to make as they do, it's just poor developing.

WreckEm711

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]The thing is, these are development hurdles that EVERY development team faces in ANY gameJordanElek

Also, Skyward Sword has motion controls to perfect. Majora's Mask only took two years to complete, but it only had four dungeons and reused pretty much all of the assets from OoT. Plus, we haven't really seen how SS will turn out. Much of their time might have been spent experimenting with how to change up the structure until they found something that worked. Most games don't have the pedigree or level of expectations or tradition of a Zelda game, so that process probably isn't as gigantic in other games.

I'll agree to disagree, bottom line is that there are much more detailed and intricate games coming out with more to deal with and still releasing in a decent timeframe.

I'll agree to disagree, bottom line is that there are much more detailed and intricate games coming out with more to deal with and still releasing in a decent timeframe.WreckEm711

[QUOTE="Kusimeka"]

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

It's been four years since twilight princess, im not speaking of it as if its anything like a LBP level. You speak of ignorance and yet claim ZELDA of all franchises is intricate enough to warrant us not having another game since 2006??? It's 2011 bud, even GT5 released eventually. Confined game world, simplistic combat, simplistic puzzles, same basic items and functionality with a few variations, and a simplistic story. There's no excuse for the time they take on that stuff. Once again, lol at the whiney "if you dont like it try making it!!" crap, it's a really poor excuse for an argument.

WreckEm711

First of all, i'm pretty sure the Zelda team was also working on Spirit Tracks during the development of Skyward Sword. Secondly, i don't think they started development on it straight away after Twilight Princess, and thirdly theres a reason why no game like Zelda has come close to capturing the audience Zelda has. They don't just rush the games out to the market, they take their time and make masterpieces. There's not one bad zelda game, and that's saying something for a series that's spanned 25 years now.

Zelda doesn't need to change the gameplay, there's nothing out there that really matches Zelda so why would you get rid of that when there's no replacement? I'm not exactly sure that you was suggesting the gameplay should change, but it sure sounded like you was not happy with how the game is "simplistic" or whatever else you implyed.

Yes i would have liked the Zelda game to be out by now, and i think maybe they should have focused more on the Wii version and got it out late last year instead. However they haven't, and as with any Zelda game it'll be worth the wait because they put years of love into the games. It's not like their sitting around doing nothing, they want the game out as soon as possible as much as we do.

I never said I wanted them to change anything about it :? Zelda is a simple action adventure game thats better than the sum of its parts, and thats worked for years. Bottom line is that infinitely more intricate games like Bioshock, Assassins Creed, Fallout 3, etc, are all developed in less time and they have way more to worry about than the Zelda team does. I don't think there is anything wrong with Zelda, I'm just realistic about the fact that Zelda is and always has been an action adventure game with simplistic components, and there is absolutely no reason for the games to take as long to make as they do, it's just poor developing.

Look i know what your saying, but you really can't compare it to them games. Assassins Creed had many many flaws, you can't disagree with me that the game is one of the most repetitive games around, reusing the same missions over and over again. Fallout 3, yes it's amazing and one of my favourite games but it was filled with bugs, and constantly crashes on consoles even to this day. Also Fallout 3 development began in 2004 and ended late 2008 thats almost 5 years. For a game that could have done with some extra development time too.

They have also remade (or changed) the engine for Skyward Sword, where as Fallout 3 used a slightly enhanced engine of the Oblivion engine. I'm happy to agree that the gameplay mechanics of Zelda are not all that deep, however i cannot possibly agree that is poor developing. Zelda is not one of my, but is my favourite game series, even over the Elder Scrolls series. If the Zelda Team is poor at developing, what on earth is good developing? You're making claims based on guesses, not facts.

You're saying that the Zelda game should have been out by now, but how can you when you don't even know how long/deep Skyward Sword is going to be? Do you even know how big the team is? Or what other projects they are working on? The simple fact is they produce amazing games, which sell well. That is good developing is it not?

I'll agree to disagree, bottom line is that there are much more detailed and intricate games coming out with more to deal with and still releasing in a decent timeframe.

WreckEm711

Got damn it's like you didn't read my post. The very same team did 2x full DS Zelda games.

Another reason is the development team size. Ubisoft has the ability to crap out 1 AC game every year because they've got like 500+ people working on it. EXTREME Budget. That's not the Nintendo way to do things. It's like you want every franchise to become annualized.

There is a reason why Nintendo franchises have lasted for 25 years. They know what they're doing. As for the lack of features such as VA, that's another debate that has nothing to do with their skill or capability, rather it's a matter of decision making.

Less can most definitely be more.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

I'll agree to disagree, bottom line is that there are much more detailed and intricate games coming out with more to deal with and still releasing in a decent timeframe.

SuperFlakeman

Got damn it's like you didn't read my post. The very same team did 2x full DS Zelda games.

Another reason is the development team size. Ubisoft has the ability to crap out 1 AC game every year because they've got like 500+ people working on it. EXTREME Budget. That's not the Nintendo way to do things. It's like you want every franchise to become annualized.

There is a reason why Nintendo franchises have lasted for 25 years. They know what they're doing. As for the lack of features such as VA, that's another debate that has nothing to do with their skill or capability, rather it's a matter of decision making.

Less can most definitely be more.

lol I'm not arguing with assumptions. It's already been assumed that I don't like Zelda, think they should change the mechanics, and that I want it to be annualized. Can't argue with people putting words in my mouth :P I also never said anything about the voice acting having anything to do with their skills as developers.

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

I'll agree to disagree, bottom line is that there are much more detailed and intricate games coming out with more to deal with and still releasing in a decent timeframe.

WreckEm711

Got damn it's like you didn't read my post. The very same team did 2x full DS Zelda games.

Another reason is the development team size. Ubisoft has the ability to crap out 1 AC game every year because they've got like 500+ people working on it. EXTREME Budget. That's not the Nintendo way to do things. It's like you want every franchise to become annualized.

There is a reason why Nintendo franchises have lasted for 25 years. They know what they're doing. As for the lack of features such as VA, that's another debate that has nothing to do with their skill or capability, rather it's a matter of decision making.

Less can most definitely be more.

lol I'm not arguing with assumptions. It's already been assumed that I don't like Zelda, think they should change the mechanics, and that I want it to be annualized. Can't argue with people putting words in my mouth :P I also never said anything about the voice acting having anything to do with their skills as developers.

What exactly are you arguing then? Yes you are basically asking for Zelda to become annualized because in 5 years we've had 4 main Zelda entries, given that SS releases this year.

You want to see more frequent releases of home console Zelda games? Then the bigest part of the answer lies within these reasons: budget and team size.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

Got damn it's like you didn't read my post. The very same team did 2x full DS Zelda games.

Another reason is the development team size. Ubisoft has the ability to crap out 1 AC game every year because they've got like 500+ people working on it. EXTREME Budget. That's not the Nintendo way to do things. It's like you want every franchise to become annualized.

There is a reason why Nintendo franchises have lasted for 25 years. They know what they're doing. As for the lack of features such as VA, that's another debate that has nothing to do with their skill or capability, rather it's a matter of decision making.

Less can most definitely be more.

SuperFlakeman

lol I'm not arguing with assumptions. It's already been assumed that I don't like Zelda, think they should change the mechanics, and that I want it to be annualized. Can't argue with people putting words in my mouth :P I also never said anything about the voice acting having anything to do with their skills as developers.

What exactly are you arguing then? Yes you are basically asking for Zelda to become annualized because in 5 years we've had 4 main Zelda entries, given that SS releases this year.

You want to see more frequent releases of home console Zelda games? Then the bigest part of the answer lies within these reasons: budget and team size.

Again with the assumptions? I've already said I agree to disagree, and that I'm not arguing with assumptions and putting words in my mouth. Defend it if you want, Zelda is on a pathetic development time considering the simplicity

Zelda is on a pathetic development time considering the simplicity

WreckEm711

That's where budget and team size comes into play. There's your answer. No assumptions. They're working on limited resources relative to your CoD and AC franchises, but the money and positive reviews pour in nonetheless.

They're experts at finding the optimal effort/income ratio. They understand that adding VA is both something they don't want to do AND it wouldn't increase the sales of the franchise hence no VA.

You could play the card that considering Nintendo's earnings, they could at least put in some more effort in making more, or what you consider, deeper Zelda games. That's valid but unnecessary.

[QUOTE="WreckEm711"]

Zelda is on a pathetic development time considering the simplicity

SuperFlakeman

That's where budget and team size comes into play. There's your answer. No assumptions. They're working on limited resources relative to your CoD and AC franchises, but the money and positive reviews pour in nonetheless.

They're experts at finding the optimal effort/income ratio. They understand that adding VA is both something they don't want to do AND it wouldn't increase the sales of the franchise hence no VA.

You could play the card that considering Nintendo's earnings, they could at least put in some more effort in making more, or what you consider, deeper Zelda games. That's valid but unnecessary.

I've never once said that I want them to make them deeper or add voice acting :P I mention those in development time because if they had those things, a long development time would make more sense, but this is ZELDA. With as much money as Nintendo has, I highly doubt budget is a problem for Shiggys baby, and if they just aren't staffing them enough then that goes back to what I said about lazy development, not on the developers working on it, but the project heads who aren't allocating resources well. When games with large worlds, full voice acting, online capabilities, and dynamic storylines are being made in less time, you know something is not right behind the closed doors.

Zelda is on a pathetic development time considering the simplicity

WreckEm711

They're not though. Each main Zelda game has a long development life cycle because most [apart from Twilight Princess to some extent] is different than the last. Also this is generally the good thing about Nintendo games. They're made in long development life cycles where the teams take their time. They add new aspects of a game so the experience feels familiar but also feels fresh due to the release gap.

I've never once said that I want them to make them deeper or add voice acting :P I mention those in development time because if they had those things, a long development time would make more sense, but this is ZELDA. With as much money as Nintendo has, I highly doubt budget is a problem for Shiggys baby, and if they just aren't staffing them enough then that goes back to what I said about lazy development, not on the developers working on it, but the project heads who aren't allocating resources well. When games with large worlds, full voice acting, online capabilities, and dynamic storylines are being made in less time, you know something is not right behind the closed doors.

WreckEm711

There is no point in trying to explain it, they think game development is just copy and paste and that bigger means more work. They don't seem to grasp that designing the interior of a single building takes more effort than making 10 blocks of varying shapes and sizes and sticking them on a map. Until they can grasp that simple concept, its like trying to teach a fish to breathe on land, your wasting everybody's time. Sepewrath

lmao, nice false assumptions there, but thanks for the laugh

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

SuperFlakeman

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

meetroid8

Solid meaning not OoT/TP/ALttP quality, but .. solid :P

Legitimate complaints are the Ocean temple revisists and the messy train part of ST. Other than that it's just personal preference, not bad quality.

They're far from the Castlevania/Zelda 2 category because those games are bad in quality besides the changes. ST/PH are different, but not bad.

I guess in a sense it falls into the same category as Sunshine. Great game, but not a great Mario game.

I'd score both games around the 90% mark, prefering ST slightly more. Amazing showcases of the hardware capabilities.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

SuperFlakeman

Solid meaning not OoT/TP/ALttP quality, but .. solid :P

Legitimate complaints are the Ocean temple revisists and the messy train part of ST. Other than that it's just personal preference, not bad quality.

They're far from the Castlevania/Zelda 2 category because those games are bad in quality besides the changes. ST/PH are different, but not bad.

I guess in a sense it falls into the same category as Sunshine. Great game, but not a great Mario game.

I'd score both games around the 90% mark, prefering ST slightly more. Amazing showcases of the hardware capabilities.

Yeah, I really don't like the timing either. When we get Skyward Sword this late, I can't help but wonder if they're pulling a TP on us again and decides to release it for Project Cafe. That would suck hugely, in my opinion. But if that doesn't happen, we'll probably still have to wait really long for a Project Cafe Zelda game. Which also sucks.

That's why you need to own DS/3DS to get the full Nintendo experience.

2 solid DS Zelda games that fit the platform perfectly well.

SuperFlakeman