Graphics...is that all anyone cares about nowadays?!?!

Ok, as a gamer since the snes era, gameplay and graphics have been there for me, making the game a great experience.  Yet, if the gameplay was crap, what point was the graphics?

That brings me to the point that with the Nintedo Wii, ive noticed on a lot of review sites, including gamespot, that half of the reviews for wii games has to do about the graphics.  And im not talking about graphics within the game.  Im talking about the graphics compared to those of the xbox360 and ps3.  for over a year now, everyone has known that the wii's graphics engine insnt as powerful as the other two consoles, yet the games are great.  What i find very irritating, and unhelpful, is that every game that gamespot, ign, etc. reviews, in the review SOMEWHERE, there is a comparison of the wii game's graphics and how they are subpar to the ps3's and xbox360's.  WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! how about the reviews we get be just about the game and its graphics, and STOP comparing the graphics to systems we ALREADY KNOW have better graphics engines?  Maybe then, we wont get reviews with "The graphics are less then admirable compared to the ps3's and xbox360's" or "Not quite up to par with its other current gen bretheren."

I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:NWA_31

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:Lone_Wolf5860

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

Lone_Wolf, you're right. I think you're agreeing about my sig. Really, Xbox Live didn't make the Xbox wins the console wars last gen.

Ok, as a gamer since the snes era, gameplay and graphics have been there for me, making the game a great experience.  Yet, if the gameplay was crap, what point was the graphics?

That brings me to the point that with the Nintedo Wii, ive noticed on a lot of review sites, including gamespot, that half of the reviews for wii games has to do about the graphics.  And im not talking about graphics within the game.  Im talking about the graphics compared to those of the xbox360 and ps3.  for over a year now, everyone has known that the wii's graphics engine insnt as powerful as the other two consoles, yet the games are great.  What i find very irritating, and unhelpful, is that every game that gamespot, ign, etc. reviews, in the review SOMEWHERE, there is a comparison of the wii game's graphics and how they are subpar to the ps3's and xbox360's.  WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! how about the reviews we get be just about the game and its graphics, and STOP comparing the graphics to systems we ALREADY KNOW have better graphics engines?  Maybe then, we wont get reviews with "The graphics are less then admirable compared to the ps3's and xbox360's" or "Not quite up to par with its other current gen bretheren."

mrshock13

IGN is the worst for this.  My most recent favorite example is from the Spider Man 3 review (by Matt Casamassina): "...or blame the technical limitations of the Wii if you'd prefer" he says.   There's something I've read more than once.  Some of these revewers are taking the fact that the Wii doesn't have the POTENTIAL power of the other 2 systems and amplifying it to the point where I feel like accusing them of trying to scare people away.
Aren't these supposed to be open-minded professionals who are supposed to know that we're still on the first batch of Wii games here?  Most of these games (if not all) were developed with a very basic knowledge of what the Wii is capable of.  I just look at how people used to say the GC was weak compared to PS2 in terms of power and laugh, because its the same scenario right now.   Take a look how that turned out.  The GC was capable of some amazing graphics, in alot of cases putting the PS2 to shame.  Do reviewers and people in general really think Nintendo would release a console infinately inferior to the competition?  Well, if that's the case then I guess they'll be the one's who'll be the most impressed when devs really get a handle on things.  

yes i agree, 360 and ps3 are blindingly beautiful grfx powerhouses, and comparisons are just stupid, i mean okay the 360 has better grfx... now what? we know that already :| also look at the size of the wii... any measurement differences? if a wii game looked better than a 360 game i would cry, i mean just look at both of them, durr the 360 has better grfx. also i like gameplay better than grfx, i mean i dont buy sequels, and i would rent a game if it is very similar to others i have, factor in my frugalness as well.

anyways i totally agree that the wii' grfx are getting hit hard, barely out for 6 months now, totally new controller to work with as well and new console to work w/, ubisoft is feeding it cr4ppy ports, 360 had this same dilema and it is as powerful as the xbox, look at halo2 great looking game, the wii can do that eventually. 

[QUOTE="Lone_Wolf5860"]

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:chris3116

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

Lone_Wolf, you're right. I think you're agreeing about my sig. Really, Xbox Live didn't make the Xbox wins the console wars last gen.

Wow, you quoted yourself :P

[QUOTE="Lone_Wolf5860"]

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:chris3116

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

Lone_Wolf, you're right. I think you're agreeing about my sig. Really, Xbox Live didn't make the Xbox wins the console wars last gen.

Thanks, I do agree with the quote on your sig. That's why the Wii and DS are selling so madly in Japan- Nintendo consoles/handhelds may tack on online play as a sort of "extra," but the whole game doesn't rely on it. Basically, it's there if you want it. I, however, rarely use wifi- it just doesn't really appeal to me.

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?   

libthegod

No. I still play my SNES games and I still enjoy them more than some of the recent games...

right, so. We all know that the PS3 and 360 have better engines. But, what most people don't think about, is the fact that we haven't seen anywhere near the full power of the Wii. the GC was pretty damn powerful, right? Guess what: the Wii is about twice that strong! Twilight Princess and Sonic have pretty good graphics, but even they aren't using the Wii's full potential. Wait for Super Smash, Metroid, and Mario Galaxy. And of course, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles (Capcom always does well with graphics, as far as I know). Then, if the graphics still blow, you can complain a little. But honestly, GAMEPLAY is what makes a game. Not graphics, or online multiplayer, or anything else, really. Online's great and all, but Zelda won't ever need it. It's the best without it! And I've tried online games. From the hype, I thought I'd be in heaven while playing Halo. Nowhere close. It's plot was so boring and repetitive that even its fairly decent online didn't make up for it.

 In any case, I'd much rather play Zelda: A Link to the Past than any PS3 game out there!

[QUOTE="libthegod"]

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?

NWA_31

No. I still play my SNES games and I still enjoy them more than some of the recent games...

What I meant was that there wouldnt be a need for improvement from the SNES if graphics werent important. 

[QUOTE="NWA_31"][QUOTE="libthegod"]

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?

libthegod

No. I still play my SNES games and I still enjoy them more than some of the recent games...

What I meant was that there wouldnt be a need for improvement from the SNES if graphics werent important. 

Oh...but then again, nobody said they were not important. Just not as important as the gameplay.

Ok, as a gamer since the snes era, gameplay and graphics have been there for me, making the game a great experience. Yet, if the gameplay was crap, what point was the graphics?

That brings me to the point that with the Nintedo Wii, ive noticed on a lot of review sites, including gamespot, that half of the reviews for wii games has to do about the graphics. And im not talking about graphics within the game. Im talking about the graphics compared to those of the xbox360 and ps3. for over a year now, everyone has known that the wii's graphics engine insnt as powerful as the other two consoles, yet the games are great. What i find very irritating, and unhelpful, is that every game that gamespot, ign, etc. reviews, in the review SOMEWHERE, there is a comparison of the wii game's graphics and how they are subpar to the ps3's and xbox360's. WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! how about the reviews we get be just about the game and its graphics, and STOP comparing the graphics to systems we ALREADY KNOW have better graphics engines? Maybe then, we wont get reviews with "The graphics are less then admirable compared to the ps3's and xbox360's" or "Not quite up to par with its other current gen bretheren."

mrshock13

i agree with what you said.

but i have another point. wii's graphical capabilities are supposed to be roughly on par with xbox 1.

how come i don't see any games with not cartoon style graphics and besides twilight princess that live up to this?

example call of duty3. that looked WAY worse than on xbox1. 

I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:NWA_31

[QUOTE="libthegod"]

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?   

NWA_31

No. I still play my SNES games and I still enjoy them more than some of the recent games...

they may be true, but would you "libthegod" pay $60 for a SNES nowadays...

no....

 I think that gameplay is more important than graphics, but when you boast capabilities (like the wii being two times better than the gamecube) you have to prove it... swinging the wii remotes is cool, but now its what were used to.. its not as amazing anymore...

we have the realism with the remote now, but why cant we have the realism with graphics too..

good companies are just puking out piss poor to squeeze every last penny out of a faltering game series

[QUOTE="NWA_31"][QUOTE="libthegod"]

People with HDTVs want to enjoy HD picture in their games, graphics matter nowadays, we would still be playing SNES games if only gameplay were to be important, dont you people agree?

StephenBassford

No. I still play my SNES games and I still enjoy them more than some of the recent games...

they may be true, but would you "libthegod" pay $60 for a SNES nowadays...

no....

I think that gameplay is more important than graphics, but when you boast capabilities (like the wii being two times better than the gamecube) you have to prove it... swinging the wii remotes is cool, but now its what were used to.. its not as amazing anymore...

we have the realism with the remote now, but why cant we have the realism with graphics too..

good companies are just puking out piss poor to squeeze every last penny out of a faltering game series

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:Lone_Wolf5860

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

games are suppposed to be fun, they are not supposed to be looking realistic. a game is nothing without gameplay and a solid story. the game can have cr ap graphics but can still be a great game. like GTA SA. it didnt have great graphics and it still won game of the year. i think true gaming is dieing.

[QUOTE="Lone_Wolf5860"]

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:chris3116

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

Lone_Wolf, you're right. I think you're agreeing about my sig. Really, Xbox Live didn't make the Xbox wins the console wars last gen.

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:ShinkuDaisuken

Yeah, but what if the online component sucked. :P

(not to mention the fact that the term we're looking for here is "replay value", which can apply to all sorts of things, I'm pretty sure everyone who's played RE4 and beaten it, was tempted to run through it all again just to purchase that infinite Rocket Launcher...)

Anyhow, regarding graphics, if you ask me, the reason I'd say why the Wii is bashed so much for it is for the simple fact that there are seriously a lot of utterly bad looking Wii games out there, due to the developers, not the hardware mind you.

(I can excuse the launch-titles, but seriously, some of the recent stuff that came out makes me want to gouge my eyes out......some titles are not even sporting decent last-generation console graphics)

Why didnt they just make the wii with good graphics and good gameplay? Surely it couldnt be that hard!Jp_18

Ya know how much Sony and Microsoft lose on every console sale? And those systems are considerably more expensive!

Nintendo has made it clear that their strategy with HW is to make it both cheap to the consumer, and immediately profitable to them. 

Anyway... though comparing Wii games to 360 and PS3 might not be fair, many reviews point out that a lot of the games coming out now are graphically subpar even by Wii launch standards. 

games are suppposed to be fun, they are not supposed to be looking realistic. a game is nothing without gameplay and a solid story. the game can have cr ap graphics but can still be a great game. like GTA SA. it didnt have great graphics and it still won game of the year. i think true gaming is dieing.big_fat_bum

People are allowed to spend their money and buy video games the way they want to. Its not like they are taking your money and spending it on video games that you hate or something ridiculous. All of you fanboys need to get a grip. Yeah, I'm a Wii owner too, but it doesn't bother me in the least when someone says something negative about the console. The rest of you take an insult to the Wii like it was an insult directed to your very person or something. Its like the COALITION OF THE WII DEFENDERS. *red alert!* Someone has flamed the Wii on the forums! Sound the alarm! Wii defenders move out! Quickly destroy the credibility of the posters with the first insults that pop into your mind! Attack! This is madness!!....NO THIS IS NINTENDO WII!!!! Stop being so sensitive about what other people think or what their gaming preferences are. In real life, people are allowed to like what they want to like (unless its illegal). Get out of the basement sometime and you might learn this.TheLordMagnus

:lol:by the way people get affend cause they have just got a wii they happy as any one can be till some one says something negative about it tey get affend cuz they the wii was gangster an that some 1 to tll the it suck they get mad so they want 2 say somethin

Ok, as a gamer since the snes era, gameplay and graphics have been there for me, making the game a great experience. Yet, if the gameplay was crap, what point was the graphics?

That brings me to the point that with the Nintedo Wii, ive noticed on a lot of review sites, including gamespot, that half of the reviews for wii games has to do about the graphics. And im not talking about graphics within the game. Im talking about the graphics compared to those of the xbox360 and ps3. for over a year now, everyone has known that the wii's graphics engine insnt as powerful as the other two consoles, yet the games are great. What i find very irritating, and unhelpful, is that every game that gamespot, ign, etc. reviews, in the review SOMEWHERE, there is a comparison of the wii game's graphics and how they are subpar to the ps3's and xbox360's. WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! how about the reviews we get be just about the game and its graphics, and STOP comparing the graphics to systems we ALREADY KNOW have better graphics engines? Maybe then, we wont get reviews with "The graphics are less then admirable compared to the ps3's and xbox360's" or "Not quite up to par with its other current gen bretheren."

mrshock13

If a review downgrades a game because it doesn't compare to the 360 or PS3 then yes that is bad becuase it just can't do it. But what is certainly not acceptable is visuals and content within the games that is not up to what the system is capable of, that means *PS2 standards* mostly at the moment.

[QUOTE="Lone_Wolf5860"]

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:chris3116

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

Lone_Wolf, you're right. I think you're agreeing about my sig. Really, Xbox Live didn't make the Xbox wins the console wars last gen.

Online play is of HUGE importance to hardcore gamers unless you simply don't have a competitive edge.

well there is a reason half of the wii games r compared to other consoles, 1 of the reasons and its a good one, wii has alot of ports being thrown on it, so did 360 when it was only a year old, remember how all the 360 games had reviews at the 5.5-6.5 range, none of them were really good, even the great games got sub par reviews and at that point 360 had no competition at all.. anyway yes over half the games on wii have ps2/xbox/xbox360/ps3 versions and for some reason .. hell even the nintendo faithful critisze the system, not so much because the system but because devs r lazy and r feeding us bs... I gotta be honest the select wii titles that r beyond awesome have received pretty damn fair reviews.. one of the main gripes people have with even the best wii titles is that in some areas even those games got the short end of the stick.. wether it be gameplay  or even the almighty graphics punch.. spiderman, lets say for instance spiderman 3 was only released on the wii , what would you rate it, I would rate it a 6.5-7 at most.. why because the controls r not to awesome, they r doable but not polished enough, then of course the graphics suck ass even when not compared to another version, they flat out suck.. and although im personally enjoying the game in all its barely textured n64/ps2/dreamcast glory I cannot say it deserves more then what I said it deserves.. why is that.. because there r flaws in it.. the graphics do bring a rating down quite a bit.. yes you r right graphics do damage a rating greatly because what is the use of having more power in the wii if it barely achieves gamecube specifications/standards.. I too defend nintendo to its very core and love my wii and have convinced many that they and their families would love it... however the whole its only 6-7 months old and developers have not learned to use its potential doesnt work on this case, this is not a dual/triple/quad core processor here with 250 pipelines running through it matched with a 512 meg graphics card, this si a souped up gamecube and supposedly the differances for developing r for it diffre only slightly.. also we can argue that the wiimote is a defense, maybe the devs wanted to work harder on wiimote implementation so they slacked offf everywhere else and slapped a $50 price tag on the product to test the waters.. no fact is devs r lazy and if gamespot or anybody else gave the crap games we r being flooded with higher scores then they deserve then devs will continue to send us crap.. im glad websites give bad reviews or rate harshly because it makes you think about whether you should buy the game or not, it deters many from even thinking of the purchase and in the end the crap doesnt receive enough support to lose money making more crap..then developers start thinking about what they need to do to sell software..improve gameplay, improve graphics etc.. then 1year down the road we get a product that is passable or even better yet... if it keeps up this way much longer before we know it the best looking game on the wii is gonna be RE4.. and we can hardly use that as argument being as it is yet another gamecube game which looks superior to any and all wii titles at the moment..

so while to some graphics is all that matters, to others like myself I wanna see good titles come to the wii and have good looks as ell, at least tap into a fraction of the extra little bit of power the wii has and give us a little eye candy from time to time.. the best looking wii titles I have seen so far that r not cube ports r redsteel, and heven forbid im saying this but onepiece and of course bleach..the rest is completely gamecube crap and some r even worse then ps2, games like farcry r like psp on a bigscreen..im no graphics whore at all by any means, but if someone is gonna realease games that involve exploring a map at least use some decent texturing..prince of persia rival swords looks pretty good as well for wii,, oh but once again gamecube..now games like warioware r perfect because while not graphically complex they r colorful and cartoony and have no pixles..paper mario another gamecube title originally but instead became a wii release... metroid ,ssbb,and mario galaxy will be the first to go slightly higher then gamecube in the graphics dept...

[QUOTE="NWA_31"]I agree, but graphics, at least are enjoyable. What pisses me off is the kids saying how a game will fail just because its doesnt have "teh online" :roll:Lone_Wolf5860

I agree. The current consensus is that if a game doesn't have online multiplayer, it's a bad game. This is really pissing me off too. People have been loving games for decades, online play didn't enter the mix (for gaming consoles, not PCs) until Xbox Live showed up. We got along great all those years without online. In my opinion, tack it on if you must, but don't make the entire game based on online play.

I agree too... GAMEPLAY RULES!!! 

Game play has always been my basis for games.  If not, I wouldn't have ever played Starcraft on my PC.

But I think some of the frustration about online gaming is justified.  I mean come on, if the Wii is already designed to connect to the Internet, but not designed to game on it, then why give it online capabilities?  Updates?  Please.  To download VC games?  Come on...Nintendo was already in the process of selling these games before with the Collectors editions of Super Mario Brothers, LOZ, Excitebike, etc.; all for the Gameboy Advance so it can't be for VC games.

I think Nintendo knew what they were doing.  But let's face it, most gaming companies didn't think that the Wii wouldn't take off, so they didn't get onboard with the Wii at all.  Look at the lack of integration of the remote of all Wii games, especially third party games.

But I do agree, graphics are a bit overrated.  In fact, nearly all of the games I 'replay,' they have marginal graphics at best.

I've never been a big graphics fan. I don't even enjoy PS3's graphics! I think they're terrible!

I'll be satisfied with the graphics of a game when it looks BETTER than what I see through my eyes in the real world. 

I think the main 'issue' comes from the fact things should be up to a certain standard.  If others are doing it, why isn't X console. When youhave something to compare against, you DO notice how crap the graphics are.

This day and age, we shouldnt have to resort to 'paper' effects in games to cover up the fact there'es no graphical oomph.

And in the days before photo realism (not that we've reached it yet) the emphasis was on graphics because novelty comes from making zero's and ones into something lifelike, moving, and controllable. 

It's quite hard to buy something 'cutting edge' that shows no improvement on the experience from a graphical point of view, you may aswell have a new controller for your old console right?

Until we have 3d holographic playstation 5's, we aint gonna drop the graphics bug.... until then, we continually struggle to make games look as lifelike as possible. In the future, graphics wont be as much of an 'obstacle', except if we buy a Wii3 and it has gameboy graphics, that would p*ss you all off i'm certain.

 At the end of the day, its a power thing. Nintendo wouldnt have a graphics 'issue' if they had spent more on the insides of the console, EVERYONE would be buying a Wii - even Playstation fanboys. Remember, people will always ask the question "what's the best", and for that oyu need a tick in all boxes.

Until we hit that graphical development plateau, we have plenty of graphics considerations to make, and hell it could even help the retro games market, as they would have their own real category (not limited by hardware, but CHOSE to be low spec), opposed to being compared to the likes of new 3d games pushing the graphical boundaries of the hardware.

To me, before Wii arrived, games consoles had hit the gameplay plateau already, the market needed a kick up the arse and a different way of interacting, thats what commendable, even if it does kick off inspiration for other hardware manufacturers.

I don't see why Ninty should bother with the whole online multiplayer unless it's a MMORPG (where co-operation is important). I don't use Live anymore due the high amount of FPS ruined by Flaming, Rascist nine year olds or people exiting games before they lose. If you want to play multiplayer go out and invite some friends round. How many Xbox 360 games have spit screen multiplayer? Graphics doesn't make a game. i spent hours watching Final fantasy 'games' not fun!