WR Michael Crabtree might sit out the 2009 season

If the 49ers do not meet this demands, he could re-enter the 2010 draft

I know, why don't the 49ers just give him what he wants?

Getting an agent who isn't your cousin (who has never been an agent before) would be a good start

Rookies are getting too greedy and it's taking away from the gameRyder004

i completely agree

they dont deserve that kidn of money yet

ask mark willaims from usc how sitting out a year helpkalabo10688

Who?

Anyways, blah blah blah. This is all talk, who cares? So many players havent signed yet either. Crabtree probaly wants out after rookie camp with the Niners QB's. 

And all the writers wondered why Oakland passed on him.themyrmidon

 Yeah, cuz oakland never puts up with holdouts and character issues.  LOOL

[QUOTE="kalabo10688"]ask mark willaims from usc how sitting out a year helpEspurs117

Who?

Anyways, blah blah blah. This is all talk, who cares? So many players havent signed yet either. Crabtree probaly wants out after rookie camp with the Niners QB's. 

Apparently Crabtree wants the same money Bay got from Oakland, believed he was to be drafted that high as well.

Looks like somebody was paying too much attention to mock drafts.

Sitting out makes him virtually useless for the first half of the season.  At this point the SF might as well take their sweet time to sign him.  He can be a rookie next year.  I say threaten him to let him go back in the draft.  He is not going to get drafted higher. He might even become a 2nd round pick.

 LoL @ him for letting his cousin be his agent.  Dumb, dumb, dumb. 

If the 49ers do not meet this demands, he could re-enter the 2010 draft

I know, why don't the 49ers just give him what he wants?

Ngamer05

Because he isn't worth it. And if he sits out the year he will drop like a rock in next years draft since teams have seen what a diva Crabtree is. He thinks the money the 9ers have offered is low? Wait till the draft next year if it gets that far.

1. From everything that has been said, he seems like the type of person that WOULD sit out the entire year on principle.
-it is starting to look like he just does not want to be in SanFran and asked for the impossible to make sure that he has an excuse.

2. He is worth the money...beast at Texas Tech
Even Trent Dilpher (who went and threw with him for a couple days) said he is awesome:
-as good as a 5 year vet running routes
-never let a ball touch his body
-in great shape

3. It is a stupid financial move on his part.
He will not go higher next year = lose money from this year and less $$$ in contract
-but, like I said, seems more about SanFran than $$$

4. There needs to be a Rookie Salary Cap = $X for top pick, every pick after drop by Y%, increase every year by Z% for inflation/higher league revenue
-no more money holdouts, only holdout if you do not want to be there (Eli, Elway, and probably Crabtree)

5. I have no problem with players holding out WHEN THEY ARE NOT UNDER CONTRACT.
This is the only time they have any leverage...look at Richard Seymour (traded across country and from best to worst)
If you are under contract, you should live up to it though...you signed it

So when does Mike Leach make his official apology to Eric Mangini for saying Crabtree was a "diva"?2tontom

I don't think this makes him a Diva...IMO
As I said this is THE ONLY TIME he controls his destiny...even when you are a free agent they can franchise you.

As I posted, I think this is more about SanFran than money.
-same as Eli and San Diego
-just like all of us want some say in where/whom we work for

Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.Espurs117

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.rawsavon

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it. 

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.Espurs117

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it.

I just think we let the huge contracts cloud our thoughts on this.
Would we feel the same about a 30,000 a year teacher refusing to go to Alaska and wanting tio stay in Texas.
Or a Business Major refusing to go to a company in Nebraska while hoping a company in California offers him a job for less money...

This is the same as the draft:
go as a top pick = big $$$
or refuse, get drafted lower, take less $$$

[QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.rawsavon

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it.

I just think we let the huge contracts cloud our thoughts on this.
Would we feel the same about a 30,000 a year teacher refusing to go to Alaska and wanting tio stay in Texas.
Or a Business Major refusing to go to a company in Nebraska while hoping a company in California offers him a job for less money...

This is the same as the draft:
go as a top pick = big $$$
or refuse, get drafted lower, take less $$$

The NFL is a privelege. Why should Eli and Elway be special? Hundreds of kids come out of college and are grateful when they get drafted period. Im leaving the money out of this. When you tell an NFL team hey don't take me Im too good for your city, im sorry but your a douche and I would not want you on my team.  

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.Espurs117

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it.

I just think we let the huge contracts cloud our thoughts on this.
Would we feel the same about a 30,000 a year teacher refusing to go to Alaska and wanting tio stay in Texas.
Or a Business Major refusing to go to a company in Nebraska while hoping a company in California offers him a job for less money...

This is the same as the draft:
go as a top pick = big $$$
or refuse, get drafted lower, take less $$$

The NFL is a privelege. Why should Eli and Elway be special? Hundreds of kids come out of college and are grateful when they get drafted period. Im leaving the money out of this. When you tell an NFL team hey don't take me Im too good for your city, im sorry but your a douche and I would not want you on my team.

But my point is:

How is that different than turning down job offers coming out of college.
Getting a good job and playing in the NFL are both privileges.
Just like in the NFL, the best and brightest can turn down jobs and take the ones they want.
The 7th round pick...aka 2.0 GPA guy...is just happy to get an offer.

But in the real world, you can quit and take a new job if yours sucks and you are in demand.
After the draft, players have 0 power. With the franchise tag, there is no real free agency.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.rawsavon

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it.

I just think we let the huge contracts cloud our thoughts on this.
Would we feel the same about a 30,000 a year teacher refusing to go to Alaska and wanting tio stay in Texas.
Or a Business Major refusing to go to a company in Nebraska while hoping a company in California offers him a job for less money...

This is the same as the draft:
go as a top pick = big $$$
or refuse, get drafted lower, take less $$$

The NFL is a privelege. Why should Eli and Elway be special? Hundreds of kids come out of college and are grateful when they get drafted period. Im leaving the money out of this. When you tell an NFL team hey don't take me Im too good for your city, im sorry but your a douche and I would not want you on my team.

But my point is:

How is that different than turning down job offers coming out of college.
Getting a good job and playing in the NFL are both privileges.
Just like in the NFL, the best and brightest can turn down jobs and take the ones they want.
The 7th round pick...aka 2.0 GPA guy...is just happy to get an offer.

But in the real world, you can quit and take a new job if yours sucks and you are in demand.
After the draft, players have 0 power. With the franchise tag, there is no real free agency.

Have you seen the job market lately? No one is turning down jobs if they need them.  A few months ago I was fighting with ppl with 10 years experience for entry level work.  Its the NFL, its a multi-million dollar job that isn't based on experience.  He has the right to sit out, but its not going to help his cause.  Didn't Andre Ware do the same thing?  I know heath Shuler did and that obvisouly went well. I would be happy with a 7 figure salary, and San Fran is a cool place to live.  He should be estatic, he gets to move out of Texas;)

 Its not like playing for a bad team is a new concept for him, he choose to go to TT?!  Its not like he went to USC, OSU or at the very least UT.    

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espurs117"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Eli is a lil b**** for that move. He told them don't pick me im too good for you, way worse than what Crabtree is doing.favre4thewin

I hate Eli (not for that though)...but do you also hate on Elway (did the exact same thing)
I don't blame players for using their one chance at leverage

It was a b**** move yes. By both of them. I don't hate him for that, I just think hes a punk for it.

I just think we let the huge contracts cloud our thoughts on this.
Would we feel the same about a 30,000 a year teacher refusing to go to Alaska and wanting tio stay in Texas.
Or a Business Major refusing to go to a company in Nebraska while hoping a company in California offers him a job for less money...

This is the same as the draft:
go as a top pick = big $$$
or refuse, get drafted lower, take less $$$

The NFL is a privelege. Why should Eli and Elway be special? Hundreds of kids come out of college and are grateful when they get drafted period. Im leaving the money out of this. When you tell an NFL team hey don't take me Im too good for your city, im sorry but your a douche and I would not want you on my team.

But my point is:

How is that different than turning down job offers coming out of college.
Getting a good job and playing in the NFL are both privileges.
Just like in the NFL, the best and brightest can turn down jobs and take the ones they want.
The 7th round pick...aka 2.0 GPA guy...is just happy to get an offer.

But in the real world, you can quit and take a new job if yours sucks and you are in demand.
After the draft, players have 0 power. With the franchise tag, there is no real free agency.

Have you seen the job market lately? No one is turning down jobs if they need them.  A few months ago I was fighting with ppl with 10 years experience for entry level work.  Its the NFL, its a multi-million dollar job that isn't based on experience.  He has the right to sit out, but its not going to help his cause.  Didn't Andre Ware do the same thing?  I know heath Shuler did and that obvisouly went well. I would be happy with a 7 figure salary, and San Fran is a cool place to live.  He should be estatic, he gets to move out of Texas;)

 Its not like playing for a bad team is a new concept for him, he choose to go to TT?!  Its not like he went to USC, OSU or at the very least UT.    

Unless you are a top level CEO (like of a fortune 500 company) your situation does not compare to his.
Most professionals are more comparable to AFL or CFL athletes...so ya we will take anything.
But these are the best players in the world.
They should have the same right to influence their employment that a Top CEO would.

Now I totally agree that it is a bad move financially...read my earliest posts...he will not get drafted higher next year = lose $ this year and worse contract next.
But I also said IMO it is not about money.
And all I said was that wanting to use his ONE chance with control over his own destiny does not make him a diva.

BTW What is wrong with Texas Tech?
We got to number 2 last year...better than almost any other team.
We have the second best college coach in the nation (behind Urban).
Leach wins with the 5th best talent in the Big 12 (behind OU, UT, Ok ST and T. Boone Pickens Money, A/M (don't know why they get such good recruits), Nebraska)
Plus we have the TOP graduation rate in the Big 12.
Tech is a damn good school...we just don't have the same resources as the ones you mentioned.

SF, lmao. I'd much rather live in Texas where the state isn't a complete P.O.S economically.Bobbles

Whoa, whoa, pump your brakes there son. We're handing out I.O.U.'s now, don't ya know?

Did you just rank Leach number 2 in the nation? :lol: Please stop.Espurs117

I did.
He does the most with the least...do you know how hard it is to convince kids to come to Lubbock...seriously

Let me guess you will put Mack Brown and his 1 championship ahead
or Pete Carroll with only 2 championships.
Or Stoops who can no longer win a BSC game.

All these big schools have all the resources and all the players and little to show for it.
USC sent all 3 starting LB's to the NFL (in the first 2 rounds)
USC has 3 NFL QB's...and all three could be starting by years end...and they probably have a 4th in the freshman right now.

So lets see your big time coaches.
Winning with the best is not that hard...winning with subpar talent is

Here are my top 5 College coaches (in no particular order)

1. Urban Meyer Florida...does it all...recruits and wins
2. Mike Leach Texas Tech...made program out of nothing...top graduation rate in Big 12 (#8 in the country)...does most with least
3. Chris Peterson Boise State...most wins in last several years behind only OU...from the small time
4. Gary Patterson TCU...see below
5. Utah head coach (name escapes me at the moment)...all of these last 3 guys accomplish a ton in crappy conferences, get no respect and just win

What excatly has Leach won again? So he wins 8 games yeah? That makes him the 2nd best? How many Big 12 titles does he have? BCS games? National Championship games? He recruits for his system and it helps him win games. What is your point? I don't get it. He does more with less I guess is what you are saying. What is more tho? Because it isn't winning anything meaningless. How is his trophy room looking?

It's simple. Brown, Stoops, Caroll are all better recruiters. So idk why you think the programs  past success alone is the major thing they have that TT doesn't have. You act like Texas was in great shape when Brown got there.

There is a reason why Leach is still at Tech you know. Leach is good, but 2nd? lol.

What excatly has Leach won again? So he wins 8 games yeah? That makes him the 2nd best? How many Big 12 titles does he have? BCS games? National Championship games? He recruits for his system and it helps him win games. What is your point? I don't get it. He does more with less I guess is what you are saying. What is more tho? Because it isn't winning anything meaningless. How is his trophy room looking?

It's simple. Brown, Stoops, Caroll are all better recruiters. So idk why you think the programs  past success alone is the major thing they have that TT doesn't have. You act like Texas was in great shape when Brown got there.

There is a reason why Leach is still at Tech you know. Leach is good, but 2nd? lol.

Espurs117

Let me ask you a question that I want you to answer honestly:

1. If I gave a HS coaching job and you had a top 5 program in the state...and you win state 1 time in 10 years
OR
I give you a program that is near dead last in the state, you never win state, but you make the playoffs almost every year.
Which Coach did a better job? 

2. Recruiting is not totally based on the coach (part is)
but recruits also look at city (lubbock loses by a mile to Austin, Calif, Florida)
they look at facilities...this comes down to funding...once again we lose by 10 miles
they look at pedigree (past wins)...we lose again

3. I am not a Texas hater...i will root for them because I root for the big 12 and my state.
But Mack Brown is a terrible coach...good recruiter yes...but terrible coach.
Yall should have 3 championships at least with all that talent.

Mack is a better coach than Stoops though...once again great recruiter...but horrible in BSC games

Caroll is the worst of the bunch. They basically field an NFL team every week.  Only 2 championships...are you kidding me

4. Please tell me that you went to UT or are going...and not like most of the annoying UT fans that never even got close to the campus

EDIT:

My definition of a great coach is one that maxes out the potential/ability of his players and program.
The Coaches I listed have done this.

IMO Stoops, Caroll, Brown have not...not even close

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]

What excatly has Leach won again? So he wins 8 games yeah? That makes him the 2nd best? How many Big 12 titles does he have? BCS games? National Championship games? He recruits for his system and it helps him win games. What is your point? I don't get it. He does more with less I guess is what you are saying. What is more tho? Because it isn't winning anything meaningless. How is his trophy room looking?

It's simple. Brown, Stoops, Caroll are all better recruiters. So idk why you think the programs  past success alone is the major thing they have that TT doesn't have. You act like Texas was in great shape when Brown got there.

There is a reason why Leach is still at Tech you know. Leach is good, but 2nd? lol.

rawsavon

Let me ask you a question that I want you to answer honestly:

1. If I gave a HS coaching job and you had a top 5 program in the state...and you win state 1 time in 10 years
OR
I give you a program that is near dead last in the state, you never win state, but you make the playoffs almost every year.
Which Coach did a better job? 

2. Recruiting is not totally based on the coach (part is)
but recruits also look at city (lubbock loses by a mile to Austin, Calif, Florida)
they look at facilities...this comes down to funding...once again we lose by 10 miles
they look at pedigree (past wins)...we lose again

3. I am not a Texas hater...i will root for them because I root for the big 12 and my state.
But Mack Brown is a terrible coach...good recruiter yes...but terrible coach.
Yall should have 3 championships at least with all that talent.

Mack is a better coach than Stoops though...once again great recruiter...but horrible in BSC games

Caroll is the worst of the bunch. They basically field an NFL team every week.  Only 2 championships...are you kidding me

4. Please tell me that you went to UT or are going...and not like most of the annoying UT fans that never even got close to the campus

Isn't the whole point to win? We aren't talking about only championships here. Seriously tho answer me this. What has Leach won? He has nothing. NOTHING. Brown, Stoops, Caroll especially have more than Leach.

I would rather win 1 title in 10 years because it means one thing. I felt what it was like to be at the top. That season didn't end like your other seasons, in disappointment. You play to win the game right?

Your argument is flawed. You give props to Myer and Peterson. Yet they both inherited already good stable programs. Boise, TCU? Please. Ryan leaf the QB coach could win 8 games in the Mountain West. Look what happened when TCU played Texas afew years ago. Yeah both those teams have beaten OU, but that's because Stoops is a waste. I agree, however I would prolly still want him as my head coach over Leach for reasons like recruiting, and a better chance to win a title. Altho I realize titles don't matter in Lubbock because they aren't known as realistic dreams.

Mike Leach has only won double digits games once. It was last year. (Mack Brown has 8 straight seasons of double digit wins.)
Mike Leach has never been to a Big 12 title game.
Mike Leach has never won any title game.
Mike Leach is undefeated in BCS games, he also has zero wins.
Mike Leach coaches in Texas, the best recruiting state in the nation. Get it together.
Mike Leach has been at Tech 10 years now, how long does it take you to win something meaningful? 

Oh and nope, don't go to UT. I didn't have the money to get in after I graduated. If it makes you feel better tho my girl is transferring there this fall and we plan on living there soon. Also ive been to Austin several times and been to the campus to visit friends. Also have games under my belt that ive been too, not like it should matter tho but like I said...if it makes you feel better. 

Anyways if you wanna talk college join the proper union 

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="Espurs117"]

What excatly has Leach won again? So he wins 8 games yeah? That makes him the 2nd best? How many Big 12 titles does he have? BCS games? National Championship games? He recruits for his system and it helps him win games. What is your point? I don't get it. He does more with less I guess is what you are saying. What is more tho? Because it isn't winning anything meaningless. How is his trophy room looking?

It's simple. Brown, Stoops, Caroll are all better recruiters. So idk why you think the programs  past success alone is the major thing they have that TT doesn't have. You act like Texas was in great shape when Brown got there.

There is a reason why Leach is still at Tech you know. Leach is good, but 2nd? lol.

Espurs117

Let me ask you a question that I want you to answer honestly:

1. If I gave a HS coaching job and you had a top 5 program in the state...and you win state 1 time in 10 years
OR
I give you a program that is near dead last in the state, you never win state, but you make the playoffs almost every year.
Which Coach did a better job? 

2. Recruiting is not totally based on the coach (part is)
but recruits also look at city (lubbock loses by a mile to Austin, Calif, Florida)
they look at facilities...this comes down to funding...once again we lose by 10 miles
they look at pedigree (past wins)...we lose again

3. I am not a Texas hater...i will root for them because I root for the big 12 and my state.
But Mack Brown is a terrible coach...good recruiter yes...but terrible coach.
Yall should have 3 championships at least with all that talent.

Mack is a better coach than Stoops though...once again great recruiter...but horrible in BSC games

Caroll is the worst of the bunch. They basically field an NFL team every week.  Only 2 championships...are you kidding me

4. Please tell me that you went to UT or are going...and not like most of the annoying UT fans that never even got close to the campus

Isn't the whole point to win? We aren't talking about only championships here. Seriously tho answer me this. What has Leach won? He has nothing. NOTHING. Brown, Stoops, Caroll especially have more than Leach.

So you are saying that if the Lions and Pats both make the super bowl...each coach did just as good of a job...HELL NO
The Lions coach did a way better job in that case.
Even if the Lions make the playoffs and the Pats win the Super Bowl...the Lions coach will win Coach of the year...You and I know it...why?...because he did a better job....did more with less. 

I would rather win 1 title in 10 years because it means one thing. I felt what it was like to be at the top. That season didn't end like your other seasons, in disappointment. You play to win the game right?

I am not saying what I would rather have. I would gladly take 1 championship and 10 crappy years over 11 ok years.
I am talking about quality of coaching...see above

Your argument is flawed. You give props to Myer and Peterson. Yet they both inherited already good stable programs. Boise, TCU? Please. Ryan leaf the QB coach could win 8 games in the Mountain West. Look what happened when TCU played Texas afew years ago. Yeah both those teams have beaten OU, but that's because Stoops is a waste. I agree, however I would prolly still want him as my head coach over Leach for reasons like recruiting, and a better chance to win a title. Altho I realize titles don't matter in Lubbock because they aren't known as realistic dreams.

Mike Leach has only won double digits games once. It was last year. (Mack Brown has 8 straight seasons of double digit wins.)easy to do with the best college city in texas, most funds, and best prestige
Mike Leach has never been to a Big 12 title game.we were just as deserving as either UT or OU last year...all in the same boat. Leach had a good point: should have been decided on graduation rate...the whole point of college...we are #1 at that...OU and UT at the bottom
Mike Leach has never won any title game.not realistic that Lubbock can get there, see above
Mike Leach is undefeated in BCS games, he also has zero wins.see above
Mike Leach coaches in Texas, the best recruiting state in the nation. Get it together.Yes and we get the leftovers for reasons already stated ($$$, prestige, facilities, city)
Mike Leach has been at Tech 10 years now, how long does it take you to win something meaningful? not realistic in Lubbock

Oh and nope, don't go to UT. I didn't have the money to get in after I graduated. If it makes you feel better tho my girl is transferring there this fall and we plan on living there soon. Also ive been to Austin several times and been to the campus to visit friends. Also have games under my belt that ive been too, not like it should matter tho but like I said...if it makes you feel better. 
NO but, usually the most arrogant UT fans are ones that never went there...see right now...most STUDENTS there are very easy to talk football with and admit their schools short comings (especially the coach)...just like I admitted Tech's

Anyways if you wanna talk college join the proper unionTakes 2 to debate

This was not a debate about what you would rather have as a student...even though you are not one at UT...I would much rather have a championship.
The debate was quality of coaching.  This does not always center around wins and losses...as evidenced by my Pats/Lions example.

Isn't the whole point to win?

Espurs117

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]

Isn't the whole point to win?

themyrmidon

I knew that was coming... :)

Basically what im hearing is "leach doesn't win like Brown or Caroll because he is in Lubbock with a crappier school, facilities, tradition and less money". Did I get all those "excuses" right? If Leach was so good then he would of been at a more suitable school for him by now don't you think? Don't you think Miami (ha), Florida, LSU, Alabama, Nebraska, Michigan, Notre Dame, etc would of called him by now? I mean they all needed coaches in recent years. I mean how could they not pursue Leach? The number 2 coach in the nation? Crazy fools.

Anyway that NCAA union was more of an invitation to come join my union to keep these kind of things going. 

By the way, nice sig. Im a Rise Against fan as well. 

Basically what im hearing is "leach doesn't win like Brown or Caroll because he is in Lubbock with a crappier school, facilities, tradition and less money". Did I get all those "excuses" right? Excuses and facts...they are all both If Leach was so good then he would of been at a more suitable school for him by now don't you think?He is not big time school material...not because of his coaching ability...but because of his personality...have you heard him talk...he off the charts intelligent (law degree from Pepperdine)...but he is out there = would not be embraced by big time/traditional schools Don't you think Miami (ha)no longer big time (has to competewith Florida) and they did not want him , Florida good luck getting that job, LSU maybe,, Alabama the worst human being ever (joke..sort of) occupies that job, Nebraska hard for Northern states and Big 10 in particular to compete now...kids do not want to go there...everyone is on tv, might as well go someplace warm...why go to Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State when you can go to TX, Florida, Calif. , Michigan, Notre Dame near impossioble to win it all with their academic stds., etc would of called him by now? I mean they all needed coaches in recent years. I mean how could they not pursue Leach? The number 2 coach in the nation? Crazy fools. he is really good...but it takes a special school to tolerate him, the crazy things he says, and his drinking, lots of schools just don't like his offense...good for me though...tech was crap before he got here (at least since the 1930's)

Anyway that NCAA union was more of an invitation to come join my union to keep these kind of things going. Will do...took it as you were saying GTFO...so I got a little hostile...glad that we are being more civil...thanks fort extending the olive bracnch
-Going to bed
-But we can always talk more in the college forum

By the way, nice sig. Im a Rise Against fan as well. 
Thanks.

But the unions always screw with my sig...it looks fine in the regular forums (uniform, single spaced, looks nice), but it is spaced all weird here and cuts off the last part...hmm???

Espurs117

Here are my top 5 College coaches (in no particular order)

1. Urban Meyer Florida...does it all...recruits and wins
2. Mike Leach Texas Tech...made program out of nothing...top graduation rate in Big 12 (#8 in the country)...does most with least
3. Chris Peterson Boise State...most wins in last several years behind only OU...from the small time
4. Gary Patterson TCU...see below
5. Utah head coach (name escapes me at the moment)...all of these last 3 guys accomplish a ton in crappy conferences, get no respect and just win

rawsavon

You might want to squeeze in Jim Tressel and Pete Carrol somewhere in that list.  Yes, USC is talented, but Carrol made them that way.  They were dog Sh** before he was there. 

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

Here are my top 5 College coaches (in no particular order)

1. Urban Meyer Florida...does it all...recruits and wins
2. Mike Leach Texas Tech...made program out of nothing...top graduation rate in Big 12 (#8 in the country)...does most with least
3. Chris Peterson Boise State...most wins in last several years behind only OU...from the small time
4. Gary Patterson TCU...see below
5. Utah head coach (name escapes me at the moment)...all of these last 3 guys accomplish a ton in crappy conferences, get no respect and just win

favre4thewin

You might want to squeeze in Jim Tressel and Pete Carrol somewhere in that list.  Yes, USC is talented, but Carrol made them that way.  They were dog Sh** before he was there. 

IMO Pete is not a good COACH...maybe best recruiter though.
He basically fields an NFL team every week and has only won it all twice.
-3 NFL QB's...another in the freshman probably
-almost every starter off their defense goes pro
-RB's always go
-only WR's really don't make it in the NFL

As for the Big 10, I think it is the most overrated conference in the country.
Ohio ST and Oklahoma (Big 12) have the same results every year...win, then get killed in the big game.
The Big 10 is in trouble.
No one wants to go play in the cold...now that you can play on TV anywhere and live in a nice place (TX, Calif, Florida)

[QUOTE="favre4thewin"][QUOTE="rawsavon"]

Here are my top 5 College coaches (in no particular order)

1. Urban Meyer Florida...does it all...recruits and wins
2. Mike Leach Texas Tech...made program out of nothing...top graduation rate in Big 12 (#8 in the country)...does most with least
3. Chris Peterson Boise State...most wins in last several years behind only OU...from the small time
4. Gary Patterson TCU...see below
5. Utah head coach (name escapes me at the moment)...all of these last 3 guys accomplish a ton in crappy conferences, get no respect and just win

rawsavon

You might want to squeeze in Jim Tressel and Pete Carrol somewhere in that list.  Yes, USC is talented, but Carrol made them that way.  They were dog Sh** before he was there. 

IMO Pete is not a good COACH...maybe best recruiter though.
He basically fields an NFL team every week and has only won it all twice.
-3 NFL QB's...another in the freshman probably
-almost every starter off their defense goes pro
-RB's always go
-only WR's really don't make it in the NFL

As for the Big 10, I think it is the most overrated conference in the country.
Ohio ST and Oklahoma (Big 12) have the same results every year...win, then get killed in the big game.
The Big 10 is in trouble.
No one wants to go play in the cold...now that you can play on TV anywhere and live in a nice place (TX, Calif, Florida)

Being a good recruiter is a large part of being a college coach.  It doesn't matter how good you are, if your fielding D2 talent at the D1 level, your going to lose.  Shame on Carrol for ONLY winning it all twice.  Miami was just as talented in the 90's and how many times did they win it?  The fact is that Carrol has USC in a position to win it every year.  Though I don't like Tressel, I give him credit for building OSU's program.  He did get an impressive win with a less talented team vs Miami.  

 Who wants to play in the cold?  Its not cold in big 10 country, not if your born there.  The Big 10 might not be the best conference in the country, but it is certainly not a push over.  The Big 12 has 2 elite teams, Texas and Oklahoma.  The Big 10 can match that.  The Big 12 has some ok teams, but by no means are TT, KST, CO, NEB, and anyone else an elite program in that conference.  TT can't even match Wisc in terms of sucess in the past decade.

Enough of getting off topic.  This is still an incredibly dumb move by crabtree.  I think he ends up being a bust, or at best a pre-madona like TO. 

You are right...waaaaay off topic.
And I could debate it all day.

The only thing I will say is that Big 10 dominance is over IMO for the reasons I stated (the top recruits statistically come from TX, Calif, Florida)
Why go play in the cold, when you can live on the beach?

Back on topic:
As I said, this is not about $$$ IMO
-he has to know he will never get this year's $$$ back
-probably get drafted lower next year.

I think he does not want to be in SanFran.
IF that is the case (big if)...more power to him or Eli or Elway
this is their one time with SOME control over their destination (no true free agency with the franchise tag)
All of us want some control where we go for our jobs.

The top HS talent has all ways came from Cali, FL, and TX.  That is nothing new.  NJ has had some great players in recent years.  Why would someone choose the Big 10 over some of the other schools, because its still a lot better than being at UCF, or UTEP.  Prior was a big name recruit.  It goes in cycles, Miami & FSU used to get more talent than they do know.  Eventually USC, LSU, and UF will drop some and someone else will take up some of the slack.

 I still think this is terrible for Crabtree.  It adds a huge question mark for who drafts him next year.  I can even see teams passing on him in the 2nd round.  Its just dumb, SF is in a weak division, and I think Singletary is going to be a good coach.  I haven't seen enough of their games to comment on his X's and O's, but he has the right attitude.  When he came in, SF had a losing attitude, and he started cleaning house.  If this is Crabtree's attitude, then let him sit.  Millions of $'s to play a kids game is a priveledge.  SF isn't even that bad of a place to be, it could be Buffalo, or Cleveland.  The way the NFL is, he only has to be there 9 months out of the year.  That isn't that bad.