Is Brett Favre losing it?

Ok, thinking long term here.  What weapons does Aaron Rodgers have when Farve retires?  Bubba Franks, Donnie Driver, Ahman "I hold the ball like a loaf of bread, Green?!?  They drafted Hawk because their Run defense was so bad last year.  They ranked 27th against the run and 22nd total.  They could have filled that need later on in the draft, good linebackers are always easy to find.  At least serviceable ones.  Vernon Davis was a rare talent, he's what you call a "franchise TE".  He could play a short yardage back, or he could play  a slot receiver, and he would have been a deadly TE.  He would have been the safer pick, and the better pick.  1st round QB's are expected to produce within two years regardless of talent.  With two years behind Farve, and no improvement on offense, his time just got cut even shorter.  Vernon Davis could have been like Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates for that team, even like a young Shannon Sharpe.  He's special, and on a poor offensive team with an aging QB and a bench warming 1st rounder, you have to take Davis.  Long term, he would have been the better pick.  Otherwise you wasted a high first round pick on a quarterback of the future.  Once Farve retires, who else is going to mentor the quarterback.  Some journeyman veteran who wasn't good enough to stick with any one team for too long.  Everyone knows, that with no help Rodgers could very well become a huge bust!  You have to protect your investments.  muffdiver1982

I believe Espurs was wrong in saying that AJ Hawk is the better pick in the long run.  But the Packers weren't picking for the future.  In truth, they took Hawk because rookie LBs can come in and make an immediate impact, and with their draft spot, why not get the best available? 

As for Favre's comments, I agree, what do you expect him to say?  "Well this team totally blows and it's going to take a miracle from God to pull us out of the gutter."  That's what they call "conduct detrimental to the team", I'm sure Owens can tell you all about it.  Favre may have been stretching the truth a bit, but every NFL player in history has to do that in an interview to put a positive spin on things.

Has Favre lost a step?  Yeah, you can't grow older and not expect to lose a little bit of skill.  But he is still an effective QB, hopefully.  My biggest worry is that last year has seriously messed with Favre's head enough to do damage.  He's never been scared to throw into coverage, but he may have knocked off of his winning pedestal.

[QUOTE="muffdiver1982"]Ok, thinking long term here.  What weapons does Aaron Rodgers have when Farve retires?  Bubba Franks, Donnie Driver, Ahman "I hold the ball like a loaf of bread, Green?!?  They drafted Hawk because their Run defense was so bad last year.  They ranked 27th against the run and 22nd total.  They could have filled that need later on in the draft, good linebackers are always easy to find.  At least serviceable ones.  Vernon Davis was a rare talent, he's what you call a "franchise TE".  He could play a short yardage back, or he could play  a slot receiver, and he would have been a deadly TE.  He would have been the safer pick, and the better pick.  1st round QB's are expected to produce within two years regardless of talent.  With two years behind Farve, and no improvement on offense, his time just got cut even shorter.  Vernon Davis could have been like Tony Gonzalez or Antonio Gates for that team, even like a young Shannon Sharpe.  He's special, and on a poor offensive team with an aging QB and a bench warming 1st rounder, you have to take Davis.  Long term, he would have been the better pick.  Otherwise you wasted a high first round pick on a quarterback of the future.  Once Farve retires, who else is going to mentor the quarterback.  Some journeyman veteran who wasn't good enough to stick with any one team for too long.  Everyone knows, that with no help Rodgers could very well become a huge bust!  You have to protect your investments.  wallymartin

I believe Espurs was wrong in saying that AJ Hawk is the better pick in the long run.  But the Packers weren't picking for the future.  In truth, they took Hawk because rookie LBs can come in and make an immediate impact, and with their draft spot, why not get the best available? 

As for Favre's comments, I agree, what do you expect him to say?  "Well this team totally blows and it's going to take a miracle from God to pull us out of the gutter."  That's what they call "conduct detrimental to the team", I'm sure Owens can tell you all about it.  Favre may have been stretching the truth a bit, but every NFL player in history has to do that in an interview to put a positive spin on things.

Has Favre lost a step?  Yeah, you can't grow older and not expect to lose a little bit of skill.  But he is still an effective QB, hopefully.  My biggest worry is that last year has seriously messed with Favre's head enough to do damage.  He's never been scared to throw into coverage, but he may have knocked off of his winning pedestal.

That is the best argument I heard to date.  Bravo!  People should take a lesson from this post because it was all true and looked at differnet angles.  Drafting A.J. Hawk wasn't the smartest thing to do in the long run, but he could be used immediately like most rookie linebackers are.  So touché.

Other than Nick Barnett that Linebacker core was pathetic. They needed Hawk more than they needed Davis. Franks isn't horrible, ill agree he aint great but he isn't bad. Also stop comparing this guy to all time greats like Shannon Sharpe. Kellen Winslow Jr. came into the NFL as the "best TE coming out of college ever" and he hasn't done a thing. Servicable linebackers? what about tight ends...Alge Crumpler 2nd round, Jason Witten 3rd round, Randy McMichael 4th round, Chris Cooley 3rd round, Antonio Gates was undrafted. They could of gotten a serviceable Tight end later in the round like Lenard Pope or David Thomas....No way they find anyone close to A.J. Hawk after pick 5.Espurs117

First of all, the one game Kellen Winslow played in, the Browns won.  The other game he got hurt early and they lost.  He's been injured the rest of the time, so that argument is complete ca-ca.  If you are looking toward the future, you have to grab Davis.  He has superman strength, runs good routes, is faster than most WR's.  With him and Franks the could run a really good 2TE set, they could use Davis in spread formations, they could even use him as a situational short yardage running back.  He offers  so many different options that he could be compared as the Reggie Bush of TE's.  He is a special and rare talent, and he is a can't miss prospect if he stays healthy.  Also, some scouts think Bobby Carpenter, is more NFL ready than Hawk.  Everyone who thought they needed to draft certain types of linebackers overlooked Zach Thomas in his draft, and he had one of the best rookie seasons at linebacker, and look at how good he is now.  He fell to what the 5th round or something like that.  They needed to improve that offense especially after trading Javon Walker, and they didn't.  It's like why does the Saints draft Bush, when they have Deuce, Aaron Stecker, and the recently acquired Michael Bennett (who was just traded away, don't point out the obvious to me again).  Because Bush adds a different dimension to the game.  Just like Davis.  I don't think that Bush should have been drafted by the Saints and I thought his best fit was the Jets, being Curtis Martin is coming close to retiring.  Packers have a young 1st round QB who has Jim Drunkenmiller written all over him, unless they bring in some good offensive players.   Long term, Davis was the better pick.  A.J. Hawk is just a band-aid on poor run defense.  If they were serious about winning they would've  re-signed Na'il Diggs, who isn't that bad IMO.  He was also a later round find.  Now he's getting paid big money.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Other than Nick Barnett that Linebacker core was pathetic. They needed Hawk more than they needed Davis. Franks isn't horrible, ill agree he aint great but he isn't bad. Also stop comparing this guy to all time greats like Shannon Sharpe. Kellen Winslow Jr. came into the NFL as the "best TE coming out of college ever" and he hasn't done a thing. Servicable linebackers? what about tight ends...Alge Crumpler 2nd round, Jason Witten 3rd round, Randy McMichael 4th round, Chris Cooley 3rd round, Antonio Gates was undrafted. They could of gotten a serviceable Tight end later in the round like Lenard Pope or David Thomas....No way they find anyone close to A.J. Hawk after pick 5.muffdiver1982

First of all, the one game Kellen Winslow played in, the Browns won. The other game he got hurt early and they lost. He's been injured the rest of the time, so that argument is complete ca-ca. If you are looking toward the future, you have to grab Davis. He has superman strength, runs good routes, is faster than most WR's. With him and Franks the could run a really good 2TE set, they could use Davis in spread formations, they could even use him as a situational short yardage running back. He offers so many different options that he could be compared as the Reggie Bush of TE's. He is a special and rare talent, and he is a can't miss prospect if he stays healthy. Also, some scouts think Bobby Carpenter, is more NFL ready than Hawk. Everyone who thought they needed to draft certain types of linebackers overlooked Zach Thomas in his draft, and he had one of the best rookie seasons at linebacker, and look at how good he is now. He fell to what the 5th round or something like that. They needed to improve that offense especially after trading Javon Walker, and they didn't. It's like why does the Saints draft Bush, when they have Deuce, Aaron Stecker, and the recently acquired Michael Bennett (who was just traded away, don't point out the obvious to me again). Because Bush adds a different dimension to the game. Just like Davis. I don't think that Bush should have been drafted by the Saints and I thought his best fit was the Jets, being Curtis Martin is coming close to retiring. 1.Packers have a young 1st round QB who has Jim Drunkenmiller written all over him, unless they bring in some good offensive players. Long term, Davis was the better pick. A.J. Hawk is just a band-aid on poor run defense. 2.If they were serious about winning they would've re-signed Na'il Diggs,who isn't that bad IMO. He was also a later round find. Now he's getting paid big money.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Other than Nick Barnett that Linebacker core was pathetic. They needed Hawk more than they needed Davis. Franks isn't horrible, ill agree he aint great but he isn't bad. Also stop comparing this guy to all time greats like Shannon Sharpe. Kellen Winslow Jr. came into the NFL as the "best TE coming out of college ever" and he hasn't done a thing. Servicable linebackers? what about tight ends...Alge Crumpler 2nd round, Jason Witten 3rd round, Randy McMichael 4th round, Chris Cooley 3rd round, Antonio Gates was undrafted. They could of gotten a serviceable Tight end later in the round like Lenard Pope or David Thomas....No way they find anyone close to A.J. Hawk after pick 5.muffdiver1982

First of all, the one game Kellen Winslow played in, the Browns won.  The other game he got hurt early and they lost.  He's been injured the rest of the time, so that argument is complete ca-ca.  If you are looking toward the future, you have to grab Davis.  He has superman strength, runs good routes, is faster than most WR's.  With him and Franks the could run a really good 2TE set, they could use Davis in spread formations, they could even use him as a situational short yardage running back.  He offers  so many different options that he could be compared as the Reggie Bush of TE's.  He is a special and rare talent, and he is a can't miss prospect if he stays healthy.  Also, some scouts think Bobby Carpenter, is more NFL ready than Hawk.  Everyone who thought they needed to draft certain types of linebackers overlooked Zach Thomas in his draft, and he had one of the best rookie seasons at linebacker, and look at how good he is now.  He fell to what the 5th round or something like that.  They needed to improve that offense especially after trading Javon Walker, and they didn't.  It's like why does the Saints draft Bush, when they have Deuce, Aaron Stecker, and the recently acquired Michael Bennett (who was just traded away, don't point out the obvious to me again).  Because Bush adds a different dimension to the game.  Just like Davis.  I don't think that Bush should have been drafted by the Saints and I thought his best fit was the Jets, being Curtis Martin is coming close to retiring.  Packers have a young 1st round QB who has Jim Drunkenmiller written all over him, unless they bring in some good offensive players.   Long term, Davis was the better pick.  A.J. Hawk is just a band-aid on poor run defense.  If they were serious about winning they would've  re-signed Na'il Diggs, who isn't that bad IMO.  He was also a later round find.  Now he's getting paid big money.

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Other than Nick Barnett that Linebacker core was pathetic. They needed Hawk more than they needed Davis. Franks isn't horrible, ill agree he aint great but he isn't bad. Also stop comparing this guy to all time greats like Shannon Sharpe. Kellen Winslow Jr. came into the NFL as the "best TE coming out of college ever" and he hasn't done a thing. Servicable linebackers? what about tight ends...Alge Crumpler 2nd round, Jason Witten 3rd round, Randy McMichael 4th round, Chris Cooley 3rd round, Antonio Gates was undrafted. They could of gotten a serviceable Tight end later in the round like Lenard Pope or David Thomas....No way they find anyone close to A.J. Hawk after pick 5.muffdiver1982

First of all, the one game Kellen Winslow played in, the Browns won. The other game he got hurt early and they lost. He's been injured the rest of the time, so that argument is complete ca-ca. If you are looking toward the future, you have to grab Davis. He has superman strength, runs good routes, is faster than most WR's. With him and Franks the could run a really good 2TE set, they could use Davis in spread formations, they could even use him as a situational short yardage running back. He offers so many different options that he could be compared as the Reggie Bush of TE's. He is a special and rare talent, and he is a can't miss prospect if he stays healthy. Also, some scouts think Bobby Carpenter, is more NFL ready than Hawk. Everyone who thought they needed to draft certain types of linebackers overlooked Zach Thomas in his draft, and he had one of the best rookie seasons at linebacker, and look at how good he is now. He fell to what the 5th round or something like that. They needed to improve that offense especially after trading Javon Walker, and they didn't. It's like why does the Saints draft Bush, when they have Deuce, Aaron Stecker, and the recently acquired Michael Bennett (who was just traded away, don't point out the obvious to me again). Because Bush adds a different dimension to the game. Just like Davis. I don't think that Bush should have been drafted by the Saints and I thought his best fit was the Jets, being Curtis Martin is coming close to retiring. 1.Packers have a young 1st round QB who has Jim Drunkenmiller written all over him, unless they bring in some good offensive players. Long term, Davis was the better pick. A.J. Hawk is just a band-aid on poor run defense. 2.If they were serious about winning they would've re-signed Na'il Diggs,who isn't that bad IMO. He was also a later round find. Now he's getting paid big money.

So your saying because some "scouts" say Bobby was more NFL better than Hawk, if the packers should of taken any linebacker they should of taken Carpenter?...well in that case hey dallas send em a trade they cant refuse it, ill be happy....anyways dont compare the saints and bush to the packers and davis. Hey the saints dont have anyone at Tight end either, why didnt the take Davis?....because bush was the best player in the draft, and no one was gonna pass up on him even if you dont need him, unless your GM is an idiot (texans). The only ppl taking Vernon Davis were the ppl who needed him, unlike bush who you would just take because he had so much value. Vernon Davis is gonna be good, and might get ROTY but AJ Hawk will turn out to be better. The Packers needed help at defense and they got the best defensive player in the draft IMO, yeah even better than Mario. Oh and btw Vernon Davis was a 1st rounder but he skyrocketed up there because of his combine, which is the most overhyped thing ever. Hell anyone can impress wearing nothing but gym shorts running around on turf. AJ Hawk had done it for years and he did it on the playing field not the combine. Dont blame the Packers for taking the needed and most obvious pick.Espurs117

Ok God!  I forgot you're an officer on this board so might makes right!  Davis was considered the best athlete in this draft.  You can compare him to Bush, the only difference is teams don't usually put that kind of importance on TE's.  No one has seen a TE of this caliber come out of college since Winslow, and Winslow isn't as talented as Davis.  You compare needs and say that because of needs you don't take Davis.  The Saints should have taken Davis over Bush, so should the Texans.  That's why those teams will always be drafting at the top.  The Saints also didn't address any needs in the later rounds.  And BTW, check news reel again, Davis was projected as the best TE before the combine.  A.J. Hawk wasn't the most needed and obvious pick.  Are you on Meth or shrooms or what?  Packers defense wasn't as bad as people let on.  Their offense was so bad that their defense spent more time than they should have.  Do you understand how the trading system works.  Dallas would have had to give up more than the pick for Carpenter to be picking at #5.  Carpenter just didn't have as great of a combine or the publicity Hawk was getting.  Hawk also jumped above Chad Greenway in the combine.  So you can take the arguement about the combine and shove it where the sun don't shine because it doesn't strengthen your argument at all.  No other TE in history has had the physical abilities as Davis, none!  A.J. Hawk is no Lawerence Taylor, he's not a freak of nature, and he won't change how defenses are played.  Davis and Bush both have the talent to revolutionize how their positions are played.  Davis could play every down, if the 49ers choose to do so. 

Who the hell are you to tell people how they can and can't argue?  Your argument is coming back and forth over itself.  All I see is contradiction after contradiction.  Follow your leaders example, his argument made the most sense.  You sound like a GM defending his pick.  Fact is linebacker could have been addressed later, and Davis is a special talent whether you like it or not.  A.J. Hawk is nothing but a band-aid, and will probably wind up on another team once his contract expires. 

Also, why was Antonio Gates not drafted, maybe because he never played college football.  The rest that you point out are good TE's but none have Davis' abilities.  Also, Mario was only picked first because of his size.  He underachieved against small schools and he was joined by 2 other 1st rounders on NC States DL, one which I think was actually better than Mario Williams and that's Manny Lawson.  You can't compare a TE to a LB just like you can't compare Cy Young to Babe Ruth.  Hawk is always going to be a better linebacker than Davis and Davis is always going to be a better TE.  Duh!  Just like Ruth was a better hitter and Young was a better pitcher.  You also said that because some scouts said that Cedric Benson looked like Ricky Williams that getting a hair cut would change his draft position.  Everyone knows that every teams lies pre-draft and leak out bad info.  A hair cut doesn't turn a boy into a man.  Oh my, I feel like I'm on the amateur hour.  Seriously, what is your point?  If you think Hawk was a better pick, then good for you.  But don't down play a rookies abilities before he steps up on a field and exalt another like you did with Bush or Hawk.  The Saints had a two Pro Bowl running backs and a 3rd good back up.  Michael Bennett fell off a little last year and was injury pron, that was his only fault.  They had to get rid of him after drafting Bush, which they did.  The Saints made a publicity pick, not a need pick.  Davis would have been a safer pick if you are looking at getting some talent and investing in your young quarterback.  Most of Green Bay's problems came from injuries on offense Davis would have added depth, and because of his natural abilities could have been moved into playing different positions had the need a rised.  If their offense is just as bad this year, than their defense is still gonna be statistically horrible.  Because they'll lose the T.O.P. battle and teams will run the ball to secure their lead.  Cause and Effect.  Your best defense is sometimes your best offense?  Any of that ring a bell?  Offense wins games but defense wins championships, but you need to win games in order to make the playoffs.  Open you eyes and actually see what is being said instead of blinded by your own opinions.  Wally was the only one that had a decent argument on why A.J. Hawk was decent pick. 

[QUOTE="muffdiver1982"]

[QUOTE="Espurs117"]Other than Nick Barnett that Linebacker core was pathetic. They needed Hawk more than they needed Davis. Franks isn't horrible, ill agree he aint great but he isn't bad. Also stop comparing this guy to all time greats like Shannon Sharpe. Kellen Winslow Jr. came into the NFL as the "best TE coming out of college ever" and he hasn't done a thing. Servicable linebackers? what about tight ends...Alge Crumpler 2nd round, Jason Witten 3rd round, Randy McMichael 4th round, Chris Cooley 3rd round, Antonio Gates was undrafted. They could of gotten a serviceable Tight end later in the round like Lenard Pope or David Thomas....No way they find anyone close to A.J. Hawk after pick 5.bgres077

First of all, the one game Kellen Winslow played in, the Browns won. The other game he got hurt early and they lost. He's been injured the rest of the time, so that argument is complete ca-ca. If you are looking toward the future, you have to grab Davis. He has superman strength, runs good routes, is faster than most WR's. With him and Franks the could run a really good 2TE set, they could use Davis in spread formations, they could even use him as a situational short yardage running back. He offers so many different options that he could be compared as the Reggie Bush of TE's. He is a special and rare talent, and he is a can't miss prospect if he stays healthy. Also, some scouts think Bobby Carpenter, is more NFL ready than Hawk. Everyone who thought they needed to draft certain types of linebackers overlooked Zach Thomas in his draft, and he had one of the best rookie seasons at linebacker, and look at how good he is now. He fell to what the 5th round or something like that. They needed to improve that offense especially after trading Javon Walker, and they didn't. It's like why does the Saints draft Bush, when they have Deuce, Aaron Stecker, and the recently acquired Michael Bennett (who was just traded away, don't point out the obvious to me again). Because Bush adds a different dimension to the game. Just like Davis. I don't think that Bush should have been drafted by the Saints and I thought his best fit was the Jets, being Curtis Martin is coming close to retiring. 1.Packers have a young 1st round QB who has Jim Drunkenmiller written all over him, unless they bring in some good offensive players. Long term, Davis was the better pick. A.J. Hawk is just a band-aid on poor run defense. 2.If they were serious about winning they would've re-signed Na'il Diggs,who isn't that bad IMO. He was also a later round find. Now he's getting paid big money.

Read the whole sentence. 

#1 Aaron Rodgers would become a bust if the Packers don't get him offensive help.  QB's are judged on stats and mostly wins vs. losses.  He will not win or have great stats if the offense isn't improved.

#2 Na'il Diggs may not be an elite player, but he is good and better than most.  If they were that worried about their defense, they should have made a serious offer to re-sign him, being they drafted 1 LB to fill a hole and now they they have to find a replacement for Diggs.

"The Saints should have taken Davis over Bush, so should the Texans."  Wow, you really have no idea what your saying now.  

First of all I never said Davis wasent the top tight end before the combine, I said he exploded into the top 10 and got the name "freak" after the combine. Which latey has been the most hyped up thing since the XFL. No one said the Defense wasent as bad, I think they had the number 1 pass defense, but they coudnt stop the run and yeah Tight Ends dont stop the run buddy Big Linebackers do. "Do you understand how the trading system works.  Dallas would have had to give up more than the pick for Carpenter to be picking at #5" I said trade him now, not during the draft. "A.J. Hawk is no Lawerence Taylor, he's not a freak of nature, and he won't change how defenses are played"....Im sorry, I guess since you think that then yeah it must be true right. No one is comparing him to Lawrence Taylor...I dont know why you compare rookies to all time greats, they havent done a thing yet here you are saying his Lawrence taylor so he shuldnt of been picked that high...thats just retarted. But yeah your right Davis is gonna revolutionize the way defenses play, heck his too fast for linebackers, now everytime a team plays the niners thres gonna be nothing but DBs out there cuz his sooo good and fast for those big slow linebackers:roll:. "Fact is linebacker could have been addressed later, and Davis is a special talent whether you like it or not" lol now your stating facts? how is that a fact....5 linebackers were taking alone in the 1st round, and the first 3 picks of the 2nd round were linebackers all picks were made before the packers made their pick. Only 2 TEs where taken in the 1st round and 3 TEs in the 2rd round...all after Green Bays pick, so you tell me what position they could of gotten later...i think its obvious its Tight End not Linebacker, oh and that commment about Hawk being a band-aid and him winding up on another team after his contract expires...yeah theres this thing called Free Agency, Remember Takeo Spikes? yeah he was in free agency not because they let him go but because he wanted a winning team/more money. Oh and yeah you can actually compare Cy Young to Babe ruth btw...Ruth was a pitcher also if you didnt know. "Hawk is always going to be a better linebacker than Davis and Davis is always going to be a better TE.  Duh!"...okay umm I never said they would be better at each others positions. Bottom line is you think your so much better than everyone and you know alot more than everyone, dude go apply at your schools newspaper becuase all you write is very long uninteresting crap. Dont question my officer rank, theres a reason why i am one, you just come in here judging everyone and saying everyone knows nothing about football, cept for Wally because he agreed with you on one point. Nice job on sucking up to the leader. Seriously as I said on my other post, not everyoen is gona agree with you Deal with it.