Why do we complain about grinding?

After looking at forum to forum,

It seems that the newer generation of gamers seem to always complain about some games that involve grinding or alot of grinding. I can understand the frustration of doing a quest or mission and not getting the item you wanted/needed in the end, so you have to do it again and again or in some peoples case 100 times +. Still, I don't know why most complain about that.

Ok so would people prefer to always get everything you want after every single mission/quest? Ok so let's say that happens, you get everything you need after doing something one time, there is 0 sense of achievement and your done with the game after a week. Lame.

Yes, sometimes a grind is a bit annoying, but it's also apart of the game, don't you remember the feeling when you finally get the item you always wanted. After doing something over and over and bam you finally get it. That's the sense of achievement and joy im talking about. If you always get what you want, there is about no point to play that game almost. If i knew i was guaranteed something from doing a quest or mission ,there's no effort, no work, no challenge and no point, it would get boring in a instant. People like everything handed to them now and day's, which is also why so many games are so dumbed down for noobz. (minus a few exceptions)

Overall I'm just saying yea grinding is annoying and can be quite a frustration and can induce alot of rage, but it's also a big part of playing the game also. Most of you that play MMORG, or RPG's know what I'm talking about,lol.

:D

Thank's for Reading, feel free to comment on what you think :)

True alot of it depends on the game, but when you finally get to what your working for, wont it besuch a big joy/relief,lol. Almost like a burden is lifted from you, haha

Because it's like mowing the lawn with scissors.Gammit10

True alot of it depends on the game, but when you finally get to what your working for, wont it besuch a big joy/relief,lol. Almost like a burden is lifted from you, haha

i_have_skills

Games are extremely repetitive in order to extend a game's lifespan. A good game well never or rarely ever actually *feel* repetitive or grindy. A bad game will. A player's perception of a game feeling like a grind is more important than whether or not the game is actually a grind or not.

In short: Only bad games are and feel grindy. People dont want to play bad games.

Games are extremely repetitive in order to extend a game's lifespan. A good game well never or rarely ever actually *feel* repetitive or grindy. A bad game will. A player's perception of a game feeling like a grind is more important than whether or not the game is actually a grind or not.

In short: Only bad games are and feel grindy. People dont want to play bad games.

Games are extremely repetitive in order to extend a game's lifespan. A good game well never or rarely ever actually *feel* repetitive or grindy. A bad game will. A player's perception of a game feeling like a grind is more important than whether or not the game is actually a grind or not.

In short: Only bad games are and feel grindy. People dont want to play bad games.

XaosII

My first real experience with Grinding was on Wizardry for the x86 a long time ago. Slowly you would grind your way to the bottom of the dungeon. Each time getting a little further... It wasn't really grinding. I was making progress at beating the boss at the bottom. Eventually I beat him... then I did it again, and again... I realized I was just hoping to get a better drop in one of the chests. I already could beat it though I didn't see the reason at all to keep doing it. Then came my next major grind, Dragon Warrior. I would comb hills for hours to level up and get more gold. This was pointless grinding. It wasn't fun to do, but required to keep playing. RPG's took this as the norm and we have been in the rut ever since. Diablo 2 was the next huge grinding game of note for me. It was really fun, until I beat it once. Then I realized to keep playing I had to do Boss runs over and over hoping for a good random drop to keep going. I could play any other part of the game, but my chances of getting some good was improved by this Boss run grinding. At this point I realized grinding really sucks. Any time I have to repeat something I have already mastered for a random chance of getting something worthwhile, that is a pointless waste of time. I don't have the time in life anymore for what grinding requires. As such any game with a grinding requirement isn't even bought...raahsnavj

Games are extremely repetitive in order to extend a game's lifespan. A good game well never or rarely ever actually *feel* repetitive or grindy. A bad game will. A player's perception of a game feeling like a grind is more important than whether or not the game is actually a grind or not.

In short: Only bad games are and feel grindy. People dont want to play bad games.

Games are extremely repetitive in order to extend a game's lifespan. A good game well never or rarely ever actually *feel* repetitive or grindy. A bad game will. A player's perception of a game feeling like a grind is more important than whether or not the game is actually a grind or not.

In short: Only bad games are and feel grindy.

I don't know why but I always enjoy the aspect of grinding for something in the game, be it a level or an item. There is just such a huge sense of accomplishment when you're done because you can see that your time and effort has paid off.

Call me weird, but I quite enjoy grinding from time to time. Pop on the music on my PC or whack in a CD, turn the game volume down and i'm well away. Admittedly, it can get tedious and dull, but as others have said it does sometimes depend on the game.

I agree. I also believe that needing to grind in role-playing games also increases the use of strategy. It requires you to think "should I do a bit of leveling before moving ahead?" or "well I just got my ass kicked, I better go grind for a while to level up before I attempt that again" this is an amazing aspect in RPG games because it prevents them from being linear. It requires that you level up the skills/attributes/squad members that you deem necessary before moving on to the next area/dungeon/boss.

Yeah I see the complaining coming from non-rpg enthusiasts and newer gen gamers. I like the grinding in most games, and not having things given out too easily.

Call me weird, but I quite enjoy grinding from time to time. Pop on the music on my PC or whack in a CD, turn the game volume down and i'm well away. Admittedly, it can get tedious and dull, but as others have said it does sometimes depend on the game.

Debus42

I don't know why but I always enjoy the aspect of grinding for something in the game, be it a level or an item. There is just such a huge sense of accomplishment when you're done because you can see that your time and effort has paid off.

Sloan360

Yeah I see the complaining coming from non-rpg enthusiasts and newer gen gamers. I like the grinding in most games, and not having things given out too easily.

Bigboi500

I agree. I also believe that needing to grind in role-playing games also increases the use of strategy. It requires you to think "should I do a bit of leveling before moving ahead?" or "well I just got my ass kicked, I better go grind for a while to level up before I attempt that again" this is an amazing aspect in RPG games because it prevents them from being linear. It requires that you level up the skills/attributes/squad members that you deem necessary before moving on to the next area/dungeon/boss.

cprmauldin

I disagree. I also find your example to be entirely opposing to your belief of "strategy." To fail a fight because you didn't use your abilities, items, or characters to full potential is perfectly fine and a use of strategy - poorly used, but still strategy. To fail a fight because you simply werent strong enough stastically, while following proper progression, has no element of strategy. It sounds more to me like the game has bad pacing.

This is pretty much why grinding is only found in A) MMO's as an artifical means to extend player subscription length (while paradoxically lowering player retention from excessive grinding) and B) JRPG's which are often stuck on antiquated design.

I think i can point to Dragon Age to show you an RPG that is very non-linear without having to rely on any moment of perceived grind.

I disagree. I also find your example to be entirely opposing to your belief of "strategy." To fail a fight because you didn't use your abilities, items, or characters to full potential is perfectly fine and a use of strategy - poorly used, but still strategy. To fail a fight because you simply werent strong enough stastically, while following proper progression, has no element of strategy. It sounds more to me like the game has bad pacing.

This is pretty much why grinding pretty much only found in A) MMO's as an artifical means to extend player subscription length (while paradoxically lowering player retention from excessive grinding) and B) JRPG's which are often stuck on antiquated design.

I think i can point to Dragon Age to show you an RPG that is very non-linear without having to rely on any moment of perceived grind.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]

Yeah I see the complaining coming from non-rpg enthusiasts and newer gen gamers. I like the grinding in most games, and not having things given out too easily.

smerlus

Nope. That's like saying fps fans are tired of shooting things, and want new ways to be rid of their enemies. Level grinding is part of playing RPGs. Traditional RPG fans like myself actually like it, go figure.Bigboi500

Nope. That's like saying fps fans are tired of shooting things, and want new ways to be rid of their enemies. Level grinding is part of playing RPGs. Traditional RPG fans like myself actually like it, go figure.

Bigboi500

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]Nope. That's like saying fps fans are tired of shooting things, and want new ways to be rid of their enemies. Level grinding is part of playing RPGs. Traditional RPG fans like myself actually like it, go figure.

smerlus

all I'm saying is some of us don't mind grinding. Those that don't like it will go play another genre.

Bigboi500

Buuuuuut when people say it is an antiquated feature, that's not a lie. So there was really no need to generalize and say that only new gamers or people that don't like RPG's are the people that don't like grinding. Pretty much anyone that would prefer a WRPG vs. a JRPG are people that enjoy RPG's and probably don't see a need for grinding when there are newer ways to reward the player through balanced difficulty and side quests with stories and purpose outside of said feeling of accomplishment.

When you like something. As long as people aren't calling you names for liking that thing, there shouldn't be a need to try to undermine someone else's opinion by calling them noobs or haters. I enjoyed my play through of Alpha Protocol, you won't see me call anyone who plays it and doesn't like it a person that doesn't play RPG's or a person that just started gaming yesterday.

It's boring. There's no fun to butchering the same set of enemies for the hundredth time to gain the needed gold or exp.

[QUOTE="Bigboi500"]all I'm saying is some of us don't mind grinding. Those that don't like it will go play another genre.

smerlus

Buuuuuut when people say it is an antiquated feature, that's not a lie. So there was really no need to generalize and say that only new gamers or people that don't like RPG's are the people that don't like grinding. Pretty much anyone that would prefer a WRPG vs. a JRPG are people that enjoy RPG's and probably don't see a need for grinding when there are newer ways to reward the player through balanced difficulty and side quests with stories and purpose outside of said feeling of accomplishment.

When you like something. As long as people aren't calling you names for liking that thing, there shouldn't be a need to try to undermine someone else's opinion by calling them noobs or haters. I enjoyed my play through of Alpha Protocol, you won't see me call anyone who plays it and doesn't like it a person that doesn't play RPG's or a person that just started gaming yesterday.

I know some long-time vet gamers think traditional rpg actions are "boring" as well, but like I said before, they're not generally rpg fans in the first place. I for instance, find most fps games boring, and get tired of the antiquated "shoot enemy, hide behind wall, run, jump, strafe, shoot, formula. Different strokes for different folks.

I like seeing other people's point of view on this subject.

Grinding to a point is basicly old fashion, or as some say it a way to streach a game out to play it longer, r make it seem like the game last longer when really you spend 3/4th the time leveling just to fight one boss, wash,rinse and repeat. This is the only type of grininding myself i dont like. The type i enjoy is more the MMO/JRPG format, as in really stupid drop rates for a (usally you need just 1)item you need as example,lol. I like the reward feeling when i finally get it. I dont mind having to run something 10+ times, im looking at the end result.

Another example would be Demon Souls. To do everything you have to play the game 2-3 times. (Every time crushing your own soul for the little mistake you would make causing you to die...again,lol) This though, was an enjoyable grind. Which i had no problem doing.

In the end, I prefer more of the JRPG over the WRPG, WRPG's are just way to easy, no challange and most of everything is laid out for you (I know this isnt true for all WRPG, but for most yes).

also.....

There is even grinding in FPS (Prestiegeing sound familiar? :p )

It's boring. There's no fun to butchering the same set of enemies for the hundredth time to gain the needed gold or exp.

shinian

Because it's an antiquated bit of gaming design (or lack of design). Proper planning on the developer's part could easily scale enemy encounters and your level in an RPG without forcing you to resort to grinding battles all the time. Hell, Chrono Cross did that years ago.DJ_Lae

I like seeing other people's point of view on this subject.

Grinding to a point is basicly old fashion, or as some say it a way to streach a game out to play it longer, r make it seem like the game last longer when really you spend 3/4th the time leveling just to fight one boss, wash,rinse and repeat. This is the only type of grininding myself i dont like. The type i enjoy is more the MMO/JRPG format, as in really stupid drop rates for a (usally you need just 1)item you need as example,lol. I like the reward feeling when i finally get it. I dont mind having to run something 10+ times, im looking at the end result.

Another example would be Demon Souls. To do everything you have to play the game 2-3 times. (Every time crushing your own soul for the little mistake you would make causing you to die...again,lol) This though, was an enjoyable grind. Which i had no problem doing.

In the end, I prefer more of the JRPG over the WRPG, WRPG's are just way to easy, no challange and most of everything is laid out for you (I know this isnt true for all WRPG, but for most yes).

also.....

There is even grinding in FPS (Prestiegeing sound familiar? :p )

i_have_skills

Games really play on the concept of time and effort versus reward. Something that takes more time and effort should yield greater rewards. Poor game design creates a poor balance of these elements. Great rewards for little time and effort cheapens the reward. Too much time and effort for a low reward makes the player feel cheated and often frustrated.

Old school games, especially platformers inflated their difficulties with trial-and-error style design. many of these games are quite short if you land every platform and enemy perfectly - which takes great effort. But small mistakes will cause you to start a level all over again or worse, significantly increasing the time it takes to get through a level or the game. These games took alot of time and effort to beat.

The general trend in recent gaming (last 8 years or so) has been heading towards rewarding more for effort rather than time. Quests or objectives tend to be shorter and yield equal or better rewards than they used to. This leads to some people perceiving newer games as easier. But they aren't really. They are just balanced and designed better.

What you are experiencing is the nostalgia of old school gaming where a greater expenditure of time was required for *any* kind of reward. You've equated the two and have come to accept that as normal and feel that the rewards feel less if less time was given, even if the reward was actually the same.

There isn't anything wrong with that. Its simply flawed design in my opinion and harkens back to the type of time/effort/reward design of much older games. Thats why i call it antiquated.

I wouldn't necessarily call prestiege in CoD as grinding, but some players can think of it that way - which makes prestiege flawed in my book if players perceive it to be so. FPS typically tip the scales to reward effort much, much more than time. The nature of its design promotes that style of design. its why alot of FPS games are so short. The leveling system was added as a way to reward time invested as well as the effort you'd normally put in. No matter how bad you are in CoD, you can reach level 70.

But anyways, im getting a bit off topic. But i think thats the main reason some people enjoy certain types of really grindy games. I tend to analyze heavily games i play which tends to make me enjoy some games, but really dislike others.

it sucks the fun out for me

Grinding is usually tedious. The bad part is, while some RPGs have had smart ways of reducing grinding or eliminating it completely, they're few and far between.

One game that comes to mind is Valkyrie Profile 1. In that game, you had a pool of EXP that you could use to distribute among your party. Basically, you could level up your party without worrying about grinding.

9 times out of 10 I don't even know the item exists and when I do get it I'd be like "I didn't know this was here!"

Pretty much anyone that would prefer a WRPG vs. a JRPG are people that enjoy RPG's and probably don't see a need for grinding when there are newer ways to reward the player through balanced difficulty and side quests with stories and purpose outside of said feeling of accomplishment.

smerlus

Exactly the case with me. I don't play many RPGs, but Morrowind, Oblivion, and The Witcher are excellent. It's not necessary in those games to grind at all, though you may choose to do so. Experience is gained through just plain using your skills in the case of the two Elder Scrolls games, whereas in The Witcher, experience is gained mostly through quest completion. But in no case is it necessary to go out and keep killing and killing and killing enemies over and over and over just to progress in the game.

I usually don't mind grinding. Sometimes it can be rather enjoyable.Archangel3371