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yes we all need more action 52's and simon's quests.. thats exactly what we need :roll:
theres a lovely simple flash set over at the escapist that covers whats changed from old games and new games
whats changed is that game developers have lost the ability to impress by mechanics alone or make profound statements with the gameplay itself
they have learned to focus on the other parts of the game and tossed this concept out the window as its wayyy too much work and too many duds result from it
and that is what has changed beyond that games have gotten MUCH better.
so its a case of them not trying to re-invent the wheel.. and i think thats a good thing.. the last thing we need is people trying to raise the dead and ruining them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA770wpLX-Q
well, imo i would take a gameboy& games over ANY next gen console or games. because they are more fun and i dont call the gamea noob every 5 minutes
I must say that was a great vid.http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2545-Narrative-Mechanics
ionusX
I think it has really been kind of hit and miss this generation.
For the 3rd through 6th gens it was fairly easy to buy games at random play and enjoy the unique experiences.
I think this generation of home consoles has had some excellent games, a lot of mediocre games, and a TON of shovel-ware. At first people were still willing to buy a large variety of games, but as they got burned by shovel ware, higher base prices, and misleading over-hype, they got more risk adverse and cynical.
Now days, when people buy games its guided pretty strictly by consumer research rather than impulse buys. So people tend to buy a lot of sequels, etc. and get burnt out on those games.
...and, devs have often (but not always) been cutting corners this generation on game content and gameplay depth; they do this in hopes of increasing profits through cutting costs by removing content entirely or selling it as DLC and increasing the game's "accessibility". (I would prefer they would instead reduce the game's graphics to reduces costs)
Not necessarily. There have always been lousy games. However, what has changed is that they have gotten far easier (ignoring shoddy controls) in order to cater to the masses. I think what makes it seem like games have gotten worse is because there is very little imagination any more. It's all about the bottom line. And you can't blame them for it, but you can certainly be upset about it.
Gameplay mechanics have gotten far more complicated over time but just because that happens doesn't mean it's harder. Way back when losing was often brutal and resulted in a lot of hard work gone to waste. Now games constantly spoon feed you stuff without any real punishment for failure which was one thing that made games feel like a huge accomplishment. However, newer gamers who got into gaming when the PS2, xbox, and Gamecube came out never really had a chance to experience this. So this leads to a lack of feeling as rewarded as it was in the past because you get constantly rewarded for playing without much effort. I think that is a factor for why older gamers feel like games have gotten worse, if that is actually worse, I think is pretty much subjective.
Another reason would be sequels. Rather than risk a new IP developers would rather milk a franchise for all it's worth. I'm sure you will all start to think of Activision but every company does this. Even the oh so loved Valve will milk it's franchises to death. Even if it is at a slower pace. Froth at the mouth about it all you want but that doesn't change the truth. Now milking a franchise isn't always bad. If people like something, why not release a sequel and make improvements. However, many companies don't actual make any improvements at all. The best example, though I hate to use it, is Call of Duty. The numerous issues like too much aim assist, dodgy matchmaking, hit markers, and weird lag that behaves entirely different from lag found in other shooters were never addressed. Where as in Mass Effect 2, I don't like the simplification of the inventory, and the lack of armour pieces was disappointing, did make improvements. They got rid of the Mako business which was tedious and no one liked it. That's not to say the new method is any better but they removed what people didn't like.
Graphics have improved significantly which can be seen as both a plus and a minus. It can really help you get immersed in a game but too many companies don't want to put the effort in to make the gameplay good as well. It is often one or the other which is far more prevalent now than it has been in the past. Quality graphics have become expected, which was not as much of an issue in the past. So now companies are harder pressed and as I said earlier, many companies don't want to put in the effort, and would rather just make a quick buck.
The advent of online gaming like pretty much everything else, has it's ups and downs. It is now far easier to fix a glitch in a game than it has been in the past. It also encourages designing quality multiplayer. Once again though, many developers aren't willing to have both a quality single player and multiplayer experience due to sheer laziness. Defend them all you want, but you know it's true. That's not to say it's the the average programmer's fault. Rather, it is the fact that companies are unwilling to hire the amount of staff needed because that would hurt there big fat pay checks. So rather than greatly increasing the amount of staff so that the workers aren't over-worked, they try to hire as few as possible. This puts strain on them and thus results in a shoddy experience. I'll get more into the financial stuff later. For now, back to online. This has also lead to developers releasing content that was once free when online gaming first came around for a price. The most notable would definitely be maps. Where once they are free, they no longer are. And once again, newer gamers won't have experienced that free content so they see nothing wrong with what happens now. So that may be a factor as to why games today may seem of lower quality. Not necessarily because they are worse, but because there isn't as much being given to people for free. This also leads to actually paying more because a series of small fees may make it seem like you are spending less money, when in actuality you are spending more. Then you add in that when/if they do release an expansion pack, and the fact that they have always been hit and miss, the misses now have a significant larger impact because of the negative feeling already due to feeling ripped off by DLC. Hence why that may add to games feeling like they have gotten worse.
Next up financing and marketing. As games get more popular, the more money there is to be made obviously. Doesn't take very many brain cells to be able to figure that out. However, this also brings in big businesses. And as we all know, they only care about profit. Period. So the games they release will cut as many corners as possible and play on the psychology of buyers to earn money. What is very important though, is the increase in marketing for these games. Seeing them everywhere increases the impact they have when they are released. And because marketing has increased vastly over the years it means that when these games are released they have a significant impact towards your views of games today based on whether you like them or not.
Another thing to remember is that there are more games being released these days than there were in the past. Meaning there are significantly more stinkers and shovelware. But also more quality games. However, we humans are very good at pointing out the negatives of something, and they often overshadow the positives. (I won't go into detail about that and the studies because that will lead to an entirely different discussion). So combine the fact that humans will point out the negatives far more than the positives, with the increased number of games and you may have the most significant reason for people thinking games have gotten worse.
On a final note, these increases also bring out significantly more fanboys whom can be quite agitating for some people. That strengthens that feeling that games have gotten worse despite the game not being the cause, it's the fanboys defending a game you don't like. nostalgia also plays a large role too but that's very obvious. It can of course mean that modern sequels to very old games may seem far better than they actually are due to name, having visual and audio similarities, and basic gameplay similarities. At the same time it can also make older gamers feel "betrayed" if the game has changed quite a bit and may seem like they are using the name only to get a few more sales.
That's all that really comes to mind right now. Sorry if some of that doesn't make sense, not exactly the most articulate person. :P
TL;DR
Games probably haven't gotten worse, it may seem that way due to various psychological factors. And obviously, it's highly subjective.
They're not getting worse but single player is becoming shorter and less a priority, I love multiplayer just as much as the next guy but games even seven years ago were much longer than games today. I remember playing the single player for a game and when I beat it I felt satisfied, like I have finally reached the end and got all the answers and I had a lot of fun doing it and not only that but it took a while to reach the end.
Video games today are just as good as ever. Don't let nostalgia blind you from that fact.Cube_of_MooN
I highly agree, I mean don't get me wrong theres a lot of great games from the snes, ps1 and n64 era but this gen just has so many games that I've enjoyed.
Yeah, they're not as good... they're better. Production values have gone up, tons of hardware and programming innovations have lead to new ideas being quickly integrated into many games, and new distribution services have allowed people who normally couldn't afford to distribute their ideas to get them out there.
Only people looking back on the 1990's with nostalgic fondness cannot admit that games are "better" now than they were. Either in terms of design or technology.
ofc they are better people just get tired of everything and they like to complain, a lot. I take for example bulletstorm, a game that focused solely on the purporse of having fun but some people just concentrate on stuff like "it didn't reinvent fps" or "another shooter did x or y first"
WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
wiouds
Mass Effect pretty much put WRPGs in a good position. JRPGs on the other hand have been going down the hill every year this gen.
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
Ballroompirate
Mass Effect pretty much put WRPGs in a good position. JRPGs on the other hand have been going down the hill every year this gen.
That is funny. I found that WRPG have not improved and even went back.
I found FF13 to be a very good story with all the character a part of the story. They felt more real to me and were good characters.
Mass Effect characters feel like they are just reskined old characters.
@Ballroompirate
I hope you do not think I am attacking what you think.
I dont think thats the case. But, we have all seen the monumental disasters that bad sequels can do. For example: back in the day the Sonic series were the sh1t while now it IS sh1t.
And in most cases bad choices: like games that shouldnt be online at all are ruined by cooperative gameplay like FEAR 2. We have all seen the case also with Bisochock 2.
Its not the games, its our time. And times are changing so fast that some games are caught up in between and end up being utter crap.
I'd agree that role playing games havent been as fun for me for the past couple generations.Allicrombie
ha! with the huge bag of rpgs ive played so far, i could agree that this generation has yet to surprise me. Im still waiting for the next Vagrant Story for example.
I think that Video Games changed overtime. I'm pretty sure that people who grew up in the 80's thought that video games weren't what they used to be in the 90's. Its just more of a genertaional thing. But I always love to go back to play the classics .
I think that Video Games changed overtime. I'm pretty sure that people who grew up in the 80's thought that video games weren't what they used to be in the 90's. Its just more of a genertaional thing. But I always love to go back to play the classics .
HaloPimp978
Allow me to dissent, but i dont think its a generational matter. A good game is a good game regardless of its time. Like i said, if they at least try to make a good Sonic game, it could be the new Sonic of this generation, instead all we see is that they are going to release Sonic 2 in HD again haha.
Sometimes its incredible the lack of imagination some companies have. Thats just an example. Look at Katamary Damacy, thats a game that could have had huge success back in the 32 bit consoles aswell.
I'd agree that role playing games havent been as fun for me for the past couple generations.Allicrombie
This. I am currently playing through the legend of dragoon again and I have 40+ hours put in and im only halfway through it. Older games are a lot more fun and much better than some games these days.
WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
You began with a sweeping generalization then just listed one company as an example while ignoring the fact that they created a series that checks the decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next...something that no other game/company has done before. so instead of proving that games are devolving, you proved that they are evolving.[QUOTE="wiouds"]You began with a sweeping generalization then just listed one company as an example while ignoring the fact that they created a series that checks the decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next...something that no other game/company has done before. so instead of proving that games are devolving, you proved that they are evolving.WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
smerlus
So you saying they are evolving because of one small change. Yet JRPG have change more than one small change and many says they are not evolving? What about Digital Devil Saga? You make a few choices in the first game and that had an affect on the second game.
[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
WRPG stories have not improve that much and even went down.
Most of BioWare's games use the Zelda plot. Something bad is going on and the play need to gather (triforce pieces/starmap piece/clues/teammate/loyalty) to stop (ganondorf/sith/saren/collectors/blight).
You began with a sweeping generalization then just listed one company as an example while ignoring the fact that they created a series that checks the decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next...something that no other game/company has done before. so instead of proving that games are devolving, you proved that they are evolving.So you saying they are evolving because of one small change. Yet JRPG have change more than one small change and many says they are not evolving? What about Digital Devil Saga? You make a few choices in the first game and that had an affect on the second game.
What about DDS? I hope you're not comparing importing a saved character for small bonuses to a game that changes according to the decisions you make. WRPG's have had character imports since the days of Ultima and Bioware even let you import characters saves across the Baldur's Gate games into Neverwinter Nights.[QUOTE="wiouds"][QUOTE="smerlus"] You began with a sweeping generalization then just listed one company as an example while ignoring the fact that they created a series that checks the decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next...something that no other game/company has done before. so instead of proving that games are devolving, you proved that they are evolving.smerlus
So you saying they are evolving because of one small change. Yet JRPG have change more than one small change and many says they are not evolving? What about Digital Devil Saga? You make a few choices in the first game and that had an affect on the second game.
What about DDS? I hope you're not comparing importing a saved character for small bonuses to a game that changes according to the decisions you make. WRPG's have had character imports since the days of Ultima and Bioware even let you import characters saves across the Baldur's Gate games into Neverwinter Nights.In Digital Devil Saga decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next.
False. The story doesn't change you only unlock abilities/character.In Digital Devil Saga decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next.
wiouds
[QUOTE="wiouds"]False. The story doesn't change you only unlock abilities/character.In Digital Devil Saga decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next.
smerlus
So now you are adding details to it after the fact and saying that as why I am wrong. Not once did I see you talk about story. I have yet too see any of BioWare's stories really change because of the choices I have made in early games. If they only thing that change is at the very end then I would not be impress.
I think the commercialization of the games industry has alot to do with the marked decline in quality of games we've seen. Developers were of course always trying to make a living by making games, but as publishers have gotten bigger and greedier, they've realized that they can get away with so much more BS. Unfinished products, sloppy ports, derivative gameplay, rip off DLC, increases in overall price, and franchise milking all stem directly from this.
[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
In Digital Devil Saga decisions made in previous games and carries those decisions to the next.
False. The story doesn't change you only unlock abilities/character.So now you are adding details to it after the fact and saying that as why I am wrong. Not once did I see you talk about story. I have yet too see any of BioWare's stories really change because of the choices I have made in early games. If they only thing that change is at the very end then I would not be impress.
I just assumed we were talking about story because your post mentioned same plot, then i quoted that and mentioned that BioWare added something that no other company has done before, then you mention DDS which wasn't original because WRPG's were letting me import character roughly a decade before that game did that.[QUOTE="wiouds"][QUOTE="smerlus"] False. The story doesn't change you only unlock abilities/character.smerlus
So now you are adding details to it after the fact and saying that as why I am wrong. Not once did I see you talk about story. I have yet too see any of BioWare's stories really change because of the choices I have made in early games. If they only thing that change is at the very end then I would not be impress.
I just assumed we were talking about story because your post mentioned same plot, then i quoted that and mentioned that BioWare added something that no other company has done before, then you mention DDS which wasn't original because WRPG's were letting me import character roughly a decade before that game did that.Alright, I have not see the change to the plot from the choices from BioWare games.
THere have been other games like Gothica 4, Risen, Two World, Two World 2 which have not done much that is new.
wioudsand there are Dragon Quest games that have remained almost unchanged for 3 decades the difference in the comparison is that Gothic 4, Risen, and Two Worlds aren't that popular while Dragon Quest games are extremely popular in Japan. Also since JRPG fans take gameplay portions like Espers > Materia > whatever they call them these days even though they function in similar ways, as leaps in innovation then I think Two Worlds 2's crafting and spell system could be considered innovation along with Divinity 2's Dragon Form and Mindreading, Fallout 3's VATS and things such as that. it's too bad none of those things are really genre changing.
[QUOTE="wiouds"]smerlusand there are Dragon Quest games that have remained almost unchanged for 3 decades the difference in the comparison is that Gothic 4, Risen, and Two Worlds aren't that popular while Dragon Quest games are extremely popular in Japan. Also since JRPG fans take gameplay portions like Espers > Materia > whatever they call them these days even though they function in similar ways, as leaps in innovation then I think Two Worlds 2's crafting and spell system could be considered innovation along with Divinity 2's Dragon Form and Mindreading, Fallout 3's VATS and things such as that. it's too bad none of those things are really genre changing.
I have been impress with some JRPG gameplay changes. FF13 was a fun real time gameplay and the enemies are some of the richest I see then gen. Resonance of Fate game play is very different.
I think WRPG and JRPG have been about the same innovation done to them. I just have not been impress by the stories that are coming from WRPG.
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