Strategy RPGs/TBSs with Fire Emblem-style mechanics.

Hello again.

I'm a fan of the Fire Emblem series, and want to find other games with similar mechanics to play. I've tried a few times to play an SRPG with Tactics Ogre's battle system(Final Fantasy Tactics, FFTA and Knight of Lodis, to be exact), and the small amount of time I played those games has left me an impression of them feeling slow and sluggish. The problem is that it seems that most SRPGs made after FFT have followed in its footsteps and adopted similar mechanics. Does anyone know some games with faster, more streamlined mechanics with a battle system similar to FE's?

(P.S.: I know I haven't given Final Fantasy Tactics and its kin enough of a chance. If I actually invest time in them I'll probably like them more than now.)

Shining Force.

Which Fire Emblems have you played? If you have only played the English entries then you really need to look into getting Genealogy of the Holy War, Thracia, and Binding Blade. Binding Blade is part of the GBA trilogy, and features our boy Roy. Genealogy of the Holy War is more of a macro focused game, and is the one you probably want to play if you haven't. Thracia is a kind of side story to Genealogy of the Holy War, with an emphasis on good encounter design.

Shining Force like Maroxad is the closest series with more then one entry. Shining Force I is a bit primitive by today's standards, but still a solid experience. Shining Force II is a refinement of the first game in pretty much every way, and the easiest jumping in point. Shining Force CD is a remake of two handheld entries to be closer to Shining Force 1 + 2, well worth looking into if you want more of that style.

Shining Force III is actually a proto-Fire Emblem Fates. There are three campaigns, each one focuses on a side in the overall conflict. The difference is there is a set order, and instead of a unique story it just gives you a look into the motivations of the three factions. The most ambitious of the series, and generally considered the best overall entry next to Shining Force II.

Tear Ring Saga is literally Fire Emblem. I'm not kidding here. Fire Emblem creator wanted to make a new game, so he put this together for the Playstation. It was so close to Fire Emblem that Nintendo and his company exchanged a short legal battle before ultimately changing some things.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance is utter garbage and not worth the space it takes up. Final Fantasy Tactics on the other hand is one of the greatest games ever made. Is it slow? Yes. However the depth here is some of the best in the genre. The story is pretty good too.

Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together isn't bad, but both notable versions (Snes and PSP) are severely lacking compared to Final Fantasy Tactics. This is something I would recommend for the story mostly, the gameplay side just isn't as fun.

DIsgaea is another game with the grid format that started a new trend. I don't like it and consider every single game with this style garbage. You know how Fire Emblem rewards good attrition management and unit placement? These games toss all that out the window in favor of just grinding past any obstacle.

Sting has a few games on the PSP that are ultimately SRPGs. Yggdra Union is a weird SRPG/Card Battle hybrid. Knights in the Nightmare is an SRPG mixed with bullet hell mechanics. Gungnir is a straight up SRPG. All of these games have very steep learning curve, but offer some of the most unique experiences in the entire SRPG sub-genre. Look into these after exhausting most of your other options.

Growslanser: Wayfarer of Time on the PSP is technically an SRPG. You know the Infinity Engine games? Imagine the real time with pause on that, but with a much slower pace, and a difficulty that will grind you to dust if you are the least bit prepared. The mechanics in the game are so good that its worth braving that challenge. Just beware, the art is drawn by a hentai artist, so its going to be chock full of fetish garbage. Some people don't mind, but it bothered me a bit.

Advance Wars on the GBA is basically Fire Emblem, but instead of leveling up, each unit type has a very specific function and must be used to maximum efficiency. I'd say it's actually more satisfying than FE.

If you're looking for something a little more fast-paced, X-Com 1 and 2 might be great choices.

XCOM: Enemy Within and XCOM 2. Warning: you won't enjoy games like Fire Emblem after playing these. You won't enjoy any others in the genre at all because none of them even begin to compare.

Xcom, Valkyria Chronicles.

I disagree. NuXCOM had far too many issues. Especially NuXCOM 2 atm with poor optimization and programming (and who thought that Dodged: Grazed was a good idea?) And NuXCOM 2 has arguably some of the worst balancing I have seen in an sRPG. Grenadiers and psionics dominate that game so bad it isnt funny.

Sadly, no western sRPG can even compare to Jagged Alliance 2. The gap grows even larger with 1.13, to the point where no sRPG can compare itself to it period, western or japanese.

I'm pretty sure I played every strategic JRPG this and last gen. I'm not really sure what you mean by slow though. The better I know how to play a game, the faster I get and unless it has unskipable slow scenes (like Hyperdevotion neptunia) every SRPG can be played pretty fast. But I guess I didn't understand you correctly?

Either way, you can't go wrong with Disgaea, it's IMO the best SRPG series out there.

Grazing is a fine idea. Don't know what you mean by optimization, XCOM 2 runs superbly. Also, grenadiers and psionics? Sharpshooter is just as strong. Specialist with high hacking and the ability to MC mechanical enemies is also ridiculously strong. A good phantom ranger is absolutely key. All the classes have their place. Very fine balance. The best party has at least one of each of the 5 classes.

They aren't SRPGs though. They are TBS games. There's no RPG at all in the newer XCOM titles. NuXCOM is a really cringeworthy turn of phrase, I'd recommend avoiding it in the future.

nuXCOM 2 and FFT on the PSP are pretty slow games. regardless of skill. Both games waste your time in some very unnecessary ways.

Thankfully FFT can be played on other systems than the PSP and the nuXCOM 2 has mods to fix the time wasting.

Grazing adds an RNG that doesnt need to be there. And only served to tilt the balance greatly in favor of the psionic or grenadier. Who deal reliable damage, wreck cover and can potentially hit all enemies in sight.

Sharpshooter is not reliable enough for the highest difficulties where you can not afford to miss or even graze, they still work, but they are highly outperfromed by the grenadier. Likewise, the Combat hackers Mind Control is too unreliable. That said, I do agree that 1 phantom is almost a must.

And no, they are sRPGs, character abilities are much more heavily emphasized than the financial and economic capabilities of the organization. The fact is, I was able to come very far with ballistic weapons in NuXCOM 1 not because I was incredibly skilled, but rather because my troops had some of the best perks which would give them all sorts of redicilous, gamey and absurd abilities, like being able to shoot 3 times in a single turn. In the original game skilled players could go far with ballistic weapons as well, but that is because of strategy, not because their troops were able to shoot 3 times in a single turn because of reasons.

Just because you find NuXCOM cringeworthy doesnt change the fact that NuXCOM is the general term used to describe XCOM after the reboot.

Edit: as for optimzation, the game doenst run very well for its technical graphical quality and the loading times are dismal.

Grazing just adds an extra thing that can go wrong. Just adds a little more challenge. It's fine. It doesn't really tilt the balance that much, grenadier can graze on standard attacks and psionic guaranteed attacks are not why psionic is strong (mind control, stasis, and inspire are the reasons).

Sharpshooters can hit every enemy in sight, after attacking twice already. Sharpshooters rapidly hit a point where they have 100% chance to hit because of the higher aim stat than other classes. A colonel sharpshooter will basically never miss and abilities like killzone, lightning hands, and the pistol "hit everything" ability are ridiculously strong. A gunslinger sharpshooter can take down heavily armored units in one turn with three pistol attacks that will not miss because they will be 100% chance to hit combined with AP rounds meaning 5 points of armor get ignored.

Specialist hacking is only unreliable if you don't have a good hacker. Every successful hack gives you +5 to hacking. Many hacking nodes give +20 hacking which stacks. It's not uncommon to have a specialist with well over 200 hacking score which has basically 100% chance to hack everything.

They are not RPGs. They are strategy games. To be an SRPG it must be an RPG.

I have literally never seen anyone ever refer to these games as NuXCOM before your post and I post about these games constantly on the XCOM boards, on reddit, on steam, etc. Never seen NuXCOM before. It's not a general term at all.

XCOM 2 runs fantastically for me. Graphics are superb and the loading times are very quick. Don't have it on an SSD either. Sounds like you're having some hardware issues, personally. Try cleaning out your system and upgrading some malfunctioning bits. Definitely sounds like your hard drive is dying.

It adds an extra thing that can go wrong, but it is completely unnecessary. It doesnt add anything to the tactical depth to the game, and only causes 2 classes to dominate the game. The fact is, bringing 2 grenadiers is generally seen as a must.

Killzone has a habit of being unreliable. and the rest of the skills are limited by cooldowns and even there are too situational and unreliable. Not to mention, most of them are high level abilities. Whereas a grenadier might learn Null Lance or other redicilously overpowreed skills early on.

Good luck getting a hacker surviving that long though. Problem is, on higher difficulties, you need reliable ways to take the enemy down, and neither the sharpshooter or the specialist has reliable ways to disable the enemy. Ok, maybe the hacker can reliably shut down enemies, but Mind Controlling, will not be a reliable option for most specialists. The class is too situational and only really excells in problems specifically designed around that class. It is not very good game design.

But NuXCOM is an RPG. It is a game that greatly emphasises the abilities of your characters. More so over personal skill, the skill of a character shooting an enemy will largely depend on your characters ability to aim, not your strategy. There aren't that many ways to influence your characters Aim. Distance, and elevation help. But for most of hte part, i felt like my soldier's aim stat was more important.

Maybe you havent talked to any X-Com veterans then. Because on the other communities I visit. NuXCOM is the definition for the newer XCOM games. Heck, the term is even commonly used in System Wars by X-Com vets.

Its just you then, perhaps you should see the reasons the game is getting a large ammount of criticism (not to the point of being panned, but still highly criticized).

Top 10 Turn Based Strategy Games

This video was just released today. It may interest you. :)

Of course bringing a grenadier is a must. Bringing one of each class is pretty much a must. You are severely bloating the important of grazes. They aren't frequent. They don't cause 2 classes to dominate the game, if any class dominates the game it is Sharpshooter just like Sniper did in XCOM: EW.

Killzone is not unreliable. If Lightning Hands didn't have a cooldown, it would break the game. It would make it so bringing 6 sharpshooters was the ideal class combination. It is not situational, it is useful in nearly 100% of situations, especially if you've built that sharpshooter down the gunslinger tree. You are severely underrating how powerful the sharpshooter class is. I've killed entire pods at once with a single sharpshooter.

The specialist is good in all situations. Once you hit a certain point in the story, you're always going to see at least one mec per battle. Controlling a sectopod is a game changer. Specialist gets a great weapon that almost never misses. Combat protocol does a ton of guaranteed damage, particularly against mechanical units. A Mark 3 Gremlin will put a severe hurt on a mechanical enemy and doesn't use up both action points like firing a weapon does, so a specialist can use the combat protocol and then attack immediately after. Specialist is the only unit that can cure unconscious status caused by stun lancers, which is very important in mid game. Specialist is mandatory for any mission that involves hacking an object, because they can hack from so far away that it trivializes the timer. Specialist is one of the classes that I often bring two of, just because they are so useful and important. Double Scanning Protocols is a game changer.

There's no luck in getting a hacker to survive that long. Sharpshooter and specialist both do tons of guaranteed damage, making them great classes for finishing off enemies. Blow up the cover with a grenadier, finish them off with sharpshooters and specialists. The class design in XCOM 2 is absolutely perfect, you can tell they spent a ton of time on gameplay balance and made each class useful. Compare how useful the specialist and ranger are now compared to how bad the assault and support classes were in XCOM: EW.

XCOM 2 is not an RPG, it is a strategy game. Emphasizing abilities of the characters has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. Characters having stats doesn't make it an RPG. Strategy is the dominant factor in your success in this game which is why you don't seem to grasp how the different classes are useful. There are tons of things that affect aim, such as weapon mods, weapon type, debuffs, buffs, elevation, cover, line of sight, etc. You can actually see how they effect the shot chance when you mouse over an enemy.

Everything, even perfect things, get criticized by troglodytes. There's no reason to ever take that into account. XCOM 2 is a perfect game. If the DLC is as good as I hope, it will be the best game ever made.

Thing is, people are bringing 2-3 grenadiers. And when the number of team compositions is low, then there is a terrible balance around. Sharpshooters are too unreliable and dont really get any good until mid-late game when they get their better skills. They are really good once they do get their skills but before that, they are kinda meh. With grenadiers, you can do a guaranteed 6-10 damage to every single pod. And the thing about grenadiers is, they are great from day 1.

Killzone is extremely unrelibale. Sometimes not working at all despite the enemy running into the line of fire. This is probably just bad programming though. And the other skill is situational because of its cooldown (I will generally only be bale to do it once or twice per mission). It is also worth noting, that I am talking about Impossible Ironman here. Which is the only difficulty where the game does not cheat in your favor.

Do you even know what guaranteed dmaage is? The only guaranteed damage a specialist has is the combat protocol (2, 4, 6 damage) and the final ability. Gunslingers have no guaranteed damage. The fact that they dont have a 100% chance to hit and can graze does not make them do guaranteed damage. Again, doesnt change the fact that the specialist is designed for situations designed for the specialist. Terrible class design there. That is why THe demolitionist dominates the game along with the psionic. They dont have to worry about those two features grazing or missing. If you have a chance to miss, you have a chance to miss, and on Legendary Ironman, you cannot afford to miss. The class design in NuXCOM 2 is complete crap compared to the class design in XCOM: Long War. Not only are the choices when levelling up there much harder to make, but each class was designed around the game instead of having some enemies designed around some classes.

The fact is, people are running Ironman Legendary with a 3 Grenadier and 3 Psionic combo, and completing the entire mission without ever letting the enemy get their combat turn. Just by cheesing AoEs. And in the rare cases they do, they have one of those mimic beacons up making the enemy target the mimic instead of the player. This game is full of ways to break it.

This game has some serious overheating issues, just because they dont bother you (or me), but that doesnt mean they do not exist. I more or less stopped playing this game because it was too simplistic and shallow this game is. Not to mention unbalanced. Didnt bother me too much though, it was a solid 7/10 for the first run, and then when I played a bit on the second run for Ironman legendary, I got kinda bored. After learning the game in the first run, the second run, I was too easily capable of cheesing the broken eenemy and class design. Afterwards, I just went back to superior games like Long War, Jagged Alliance 2 (1.13) or even just Open X-Com.

Emphasizing the abiliteis of your character IS what an RPG is about. An RPG is about stats, not about C&C. Heck most early RPGs didnt even have C&C, nor does most jRPGs today. Jagged Alliance is considered an SRPG as well. And that game doesnt even have gamey perks you get after each level up. And so much more tactical depth than NuXCOM 2 it isnt funny.

Why dont you come back after you play on Legendary Ironman. Because by all means, it doesnt seem you like you are playing on that difficulty.

@Maroxad: If jagged alliance 2 is as good as you say, I will have to try it.

Also, I agree with your X-Com 2 critique and while I don't play on your difficulty level, we gave it the same score. I also think Snipers are weak until mid-late game. The just have too low of a chance to hit until then.

I thought assault was OP too, but maybe that's just in veteran early game. If combat stims weren't one time use, it would help them. I think hackers kinda suck due to low success chance, maybe that's just me.

When it comes down to combat. Jagged Alliance with the 1.13 mod is king.

For example, supression is a mechanic as opposed to a skill, the game also allows you to interact more seamlessly with the environment instead of the game telling you where you can interact and how. Then there is how units interact with eachother. As you progress through the campaign, your troops can start disliking or liking eachother, depending on a variety of factors such as race, and backgrounds and history, this also affects how well units work together. There are hundreds of guns all modelled (statwise) after real world guns. You also have much superior control over your troops. Your troops can always crouch, go prone, and you are capable of shooting multiple people in one turn, without any gamey abilities.

But if you do get JA2 do not start with the 1.13 mod. It has a habit of overwhelming people. Not to mention the massive difficulty spike. Beat the vanilla game first :)

Assaults can definately be really powerful, especially on lower difficulties where hitting enemies is easier and enemies have less health overall. The 15% chance to kill combined with the double shot ability is flat out amazing and has a 28.5% chance of instantly killing any enemy, assuming both shots connect. Of course, with amazing crit rate afforded by one of the weapon modifications, you might have a 80% crit chance as well. This means, that you are more than capable of one shotting nearly every alien in the game with one. Their weakness lies in how risky they are. The last thing you want to do is to risk pulling an extra pod. Especially not if members of the other pod are still alive. And with higher difficulties, those odds do increase quite a bit.

But on the final mission in the game I used 2 of them

to instagib all 3 avatars.

Hackers are great for stunning mechs, which I often had nearing or at 100%. But yeah, I agree with the hacker's success rate for mind control. Often times its just not worth the risk.