Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings II was probably the best unknown RPG of the last decade and now PDX really upping their game with implementing deeper RPG mechanics within the sequel.

Considering all that, its ironic that the CK games have become better RPGs compared to the mainstream RPGs like the Witcher 3 or Chrono Trigger lmao

Is this rpg style really even comparable to a game like the witcher 3?

@drsoe08: Looks like a Strategy game, and after searching up the genre is commonly dubbed Grand Strategy. Heavily focused on diplomacy, conflict and conquest. Games people compare it to- Sid Meier's Civilisation, Hearts of Iron, or to a less extent Age of Empires (not sure why with this latter).

GS games are inspired by a very old board game called Axis & Allies. Almost every RPG in some-form-or-way is based on the Tabletop classic Dungeons and Dragons_

So on that note it's not an RPG. Comparing it to a turn-base RPG like Chrono Trigger, or an Action RPG like The Witcher III (two very different kinds of RPGs) is nonsensical. And odd from a brief search I already have a better idea about the game than someone hyping it.

What is next; Dark Souls the best Platformer since Super Mario Bros/ Fortnite the best Puzzle game since Tetris?

@RSM-HQ: lol

@RSM-HQ: to quote @Maroxad

"As far as RPGs go, this one absolutely destroys your favorite RPG in the actual ROLEPLAYING aspect. Unless your favorite RPG is a tabletop one. Then you win!"

The video you linked also called it a Grand Strategy Game by the way. Your points also had little context of reasoning the subject, just a 'nuh-uh' response.

Frankly don't really care if you prefer it over RPG games I like, that's more than fine, wasn't even my point. Though on that note Divinity: Original Sin II is probably my favorite traditional RPG of recent years (excited for BGIII) and for Action RPG it is easily Monster Hunter because the depth, creature A.I. and flexibility is second to none!

That doesn't make CKIII an RPG though in any respect. Role playing as a term with Role Playing Game is different. You could 'role play' being your playable solider in a Call of Duty game, that doesn't make it any less a FPS.

Perhaps Pong is your favorite Fighting game as well, because it is competitive, but that doesn't make it a Fighting game.

Enjoy your game, looks solid for a Grand Strategy game. I do like Strategy games so may look into it further. It's not the next Chrono Trigger though, has zero resemblance.

There's a difference between a brief search and actually playing the game lmao

For sure! However my sources come both from your given review, and the official Steam page/ Community Hub from people playing the game, and whom have extensive experience in the genre, along with creator quotations. I think that is valuable information regardless if I've played it or no.

On that note maybe worth playing The Wither III and Chrono Trigger before spitting on them, solely to hype a game you enjoy. It's easy to dismiss games because they're popular I get that, however found your reason to do so had a lot to be desired.

I think CK3 is nice, but lacks some features in CK2 like call all your allies to war button. But i suspect that will probably come in future DLC packs or updates.

Ck3 is probably a great game for some, but most will find it unplayable. I put around 10 hours into it, and still had no idea what was going on even after the lengthy but useless tutorials. The battle aspect is awful....and if the Devs had put half as much effort into the battlefield experience as they did into other aspects, it might have been a more accessible experience. As it is I played it on gamepass, and moved on.

It's also bug ridden which makes me wonder how it got a perfect score here.

@RSM-HQ: Why are you being so pedantic? It is absolutely an RPG. I think you're annoyed that he made a claim it's better than TW3 (which is just his opinion obviously) and so are trying to tear it apart left and right - but without having played the game you can't pull it off. CK3 is an RPG. It's not a "typical cRPG", no, but it is absolutely a role playing game, and has all the core components of one. The fact that it is ALSO a grand strategy game is irrelevant - or, perhaps more accurately is something that adds to its uniqueness. It is an RPG.

You can find plenty of support for this argument on the web from those who have played this game and its predecessors

IMO the TC's biggest error is comparing it to TW3 and Chrono Trigger in the first place, rather than just talking it up on its own merits (deep emergent story telling and RPG mechanics) - which are completely different from each other, and from CK3, and are both POOR examples of deep RPG mechanics, actually. Rather, their strengths are on branching pre-defined storytelling and adventuring.

Just went on what I looked up. And nothing really made it seem like a RPG game in all respects, gave the reason behind my interpretation of what the genre(s) actually mean furthermore.

Whether you want to disagree or agree is entirely up to you, and am fine with either.

I think you're annoyed that he made a claim it's better than TW3

I've not exactly been kind to The Witcher III on this forum so find your suspicions invalid. Also don't think I've stomped down the quality of Crusader Kings III; even showed interest in the game as I've never tried a Grand Strategy game before. Strategy? sure, SRPG, sure. But a GS game? never. So I'm interested.

but without having played the game you can't pull it off.

Made no claim I did play Crusader Kings (any of them), which is frankly more honest than ninety percent of this forum would give on any given game/ series (I've seen so many contradictions in users and games that it's not even funny)

'back on subject' Went entirely on searching the series, genre, and fandom.

CK3 is an RPG. It's not a "typical cRPG", no. but it is absolutely a role playing game

Fair enough. I don't really see it, but at this point don't see a strong counter argument to someone with extensive experience and passion on the subject. Seems we have different interpretations on what an RPG is at anycase. Am very by the books on the subject of genres_

Will I retract my claims? Probably not, and don't see why it being called a Grand Strategy is a horrible gesture. Throwing lite-RPG elements doesn't make a full fledged RPG game for me. It has a template of sorts. Just as I don't count those Stealth Horror games (Outlast, Alien Isolation) Survival Horror, because it doesn't follow a single aspect of the genre outside being spooky.

Sure CKIII has a stress meter, so did Metal Gear Solid, and that's a Stealth Action game. That's my stance on the matter. Enjoy your game. I have no quarrel.

@RSM-HQ: I didn't say you claimed to have played it - I was noting that since you were open that you hadn't, your pushback on it not being an RPG was going to be a tough sell. It was obvious that you were unaware of a lot of important details. It's still obvious this is an issue - you're talking about the stress meter, but that's the tip of the iceberg and also not the same thing at all as MGS.... it's more like... IDK, a representation of trying to go against your character affinity in Arcanum. Sort of. You can do it, but there are consequences.

Your character has many statistics, skills, and personality traits, just like any other cRPG. You actively contribute to the development of these and they affect all aspects of the game in deep ways. It has many more stats and character development options than most RPGs, actually. Like I said above, I find the comparison to TW3 and Chrono Trigger poor, because that's really not what they do well (it's not a failing - they aren't designed to do it with much depth in the first place). These stats in CK affect your marriages, your children, your lackeys, your superiors, your efforts in war and your efforts in love and diplomacy and economy. An interesting aspect of it is that your character ages and dies (or gets killed because you pissed too many people off or didn't play your spy game right or...); so the game continues through your heir('s heir's heir's heir... potentially; hopefully you birthed one or looped one in) and your heritable traits and lifestyle you gave to your heir will therefore be inherited into your new role. It's pretty crazy - imagine leveling your favorite character from a normal RPG and add generations to it.

I'm trying to think what the best analog for traditional RPGs is. Obviously the biggest difference is that your "quests" are typically more macro-scale; you aren't clearing a cave of monsters, but a region of step-siblings who you can't get along with. You aren't exploring an enchanted forest but a region of the world. So the grand strategy component changes the experience in some substantial ways. It's very "open world' in that you can do whatever you want and be whoever you want - you just need to be prepared to deal with the consequences of those choices...

Anyway - honestly I think a cRPG fan should check it out. I won't promise they'd like it; it's very different - and of course if one doesn't like strategy games then one should pass. But if you like D&D RPGs, for example, there are a lot of stats and deep character embodiment to appeal to you. It has very little in common with Chrono Trigger - I would never make that comparison unprompted, personally.

@xantufrog: Remarkably detailed response, much appreciated, and has really shown the areas that didn't surface on a search. I will have to look into Crusader Kings III further sometime, and perhaps buy/ give it a play.

Looks like a large time investment though, so maybe a while before I can give it the proper respect a big game such as that deserves, RPG or no.

That's pretty much how i felt about 2. I could never get into it, which is really a bummer, because i love games Like Civilization.

Maybe 3 will do better.

I'll wait for the inevitable bundle or sale.

So, another game from them that was super complex was Stellaris....is this more complex, or less, than Stellaris?

This Stellaris you mention_

complex in a 'thinking on the fly' kind of way, or would you say over-cumbersome and time consuming?

Both? I wouldn't say cumbersome, though, but definitely time consuming in a good way.

It's a 4X game that plays out in "real-time" so you have to think on your feet. With that said, there is:

• a huge tech tree that you actually need to plan around because it is randomized, but your selections sort of dictate the direction your research goes in.
• Very involved planetary management, from the buildings you want to build to the kinds of people you want on it.
• Very involved colonization feature; want a perfect "Gaia" planet? Good luck. Small but efficient space habitats? Ring worlds? Tomb worlds?
• Species management is crazy in-depth as well. You can make all kinds of robots, from "custodian" robots (think robots from Wall-E) that essentially run everything while humans are more or less pets, to genocidal terminators. You can make peaceful insects or hive-minded humanoids that consume the planets they invade.
  • There's immigration to worry about.
  • I don't think there is religion, but each species has it's own beliefs in government/economy/etc.
  • You can research into bionics (androids and such) or psionics (evolution of your species)
• Diplomacy is pretty crazy, but kind of whack because it doesn't always work out. They are working on it, though, and it has gotten pretty awesome.
• A couple expansions ago they introduced Corporations, and also crime stuff...so you can play as Weyland-Yutani (of Aliens and Predator fame, a massive multi-stellar corporation) or you can play as a Hutt-like crime cartel that practices slavery.
• The military aspect is pretty cool. I remember the first time I played I was all stoked because I had unlocked battleships and had this really cool looking fleet then all of a sudden war is declared on me and some jerk with a fleet literally 100x my size comes in and just ruins me.

I mean, they more or less covered just about everything you could ask for, more or less. Think of all the sci-fi tropes and stuff you've seen in your life, and you can probably do it in Stellaris. Unity from Rick and Morty? You can make a race that plays like her. Hutt cartel? Yup, you can make a faction like them. Star Fleet from Star Trek? Sure, you can do that. Peaceful nature-loving whatevers? Sure.

If 4X, strategy, management, and sci-fi are things you like, I highly highly recommend it. It is a little daunting at first but I thought it was relatively accessible from the start. You can spend a few hours just designing your species and government before even getting into the actual game.

I think this game had around 6 years of DLC and I finally got all the significant DLC during Humble Bundle Strategy bundle sale for like $15

I played this game significantly already. If you take this game as face value RPG currently then this is probably gonna disappoint ya because probably one can't relate to most character unless you wanna re-enact Braveheart in Scotland, kill the Pope, or be someone you recognize in history. I would wait for someone to create a mod that someone can relate like the Elder Scrolls Mod or Game of Thrones mod that they had in CK2.

As far as gameplay goes, I would really suggest ironman mode so you can't restart if ya eff up as that really makes your decision to be ever important. I would also suggest starting small instead of a large empire so you get to understand the game better. There's still a few AI problems in the game such as AI will always go for your capital wherever you are or AI will keep fighting you even if they are flat broke in keep deep debt as their country is in turmoil, bedridden in civil war. This game is definitely not hard. I personally think Hearts of Iron franchise is way more difficult.

@RSM-HQ: Crusader Kings is a series that has grand strategy elements, and in fact looks the part of a grand strategy game. That said, you aren't actually required to use the grand strategy elements of the game as you play, but you cannot escape the RPG elements. You control a character in charge of a realm, but not the realm itself. The goal of the game is to further the interests of your dynasty. Expansion of the realm comes second, because you can lose your realm to all sorts of internal factors. Other realms are also controlled by characters with similar motives. Every character in the game has a set of stats, similar to any other RPG. The game is littered with events, which are basically side quests, that take place as you go about management of your realm. Managing your realm basically boils down to interacting with a set of characters who are working for you and keeping them happy. I have never played a more immersive RPG than CK2. The fact that it is also a somewhat decent grand strategy game, if you wish to play it that way, is just icing on the cake.

No, it's really not helpful to make that comparison.

You could argue CK3 is an excellent RPG with grand strategy-styled gameplay, or a grand strategy game with strong RPG elements. Either way, it's completely different to a story-driven RPG like TW3.