Are woman really the problem?

Hello. In the last year or so, we have had this well known spatter with woman and games.

As soon as the name "Anita Sarkeesian" or the word "feminism" comes up, the reaction is like a gag response to sulfur.

What brings up this topic is a movie I'm sure many of you have seen, it's a few years old now, "District 9".

This movie is conmanly compared to avatar, with District 9 winning. For a number of reasons.

Avatar is seen as somewhat obvious and exploitative. With a GI Joe American hero, beautiful aliens living in a wondrous land against the oppressive regime that sips a cup of coffee while decimating it all.

On the other hand, District 9 starts with a African character who looks average and acts like a weasel. He becomes our hero. The aliens, essentially live in a shithole and look like dirty cockroaches.

Both plot lines end up with the character becoming a "native" the difference being District 9 remains unresolved.

Looking at video games (for example) "The Witcher" which people praise. The main characters, the important people, all have American accents. The lesser peon characters (literally side NPC's) British.

You can cite many other examples but that's just what came to mind the most, since it was recent and very off-putting.

This happens in most video games, even if the game isn't set in America or has no reason to be American, the characters will sound American. It probably is part in due to video games attempting to mimic Hollywood. Almost by default, the hero must be American by design.

Isn't this more of a problem than woman in metal bikini's? It certainly seems to directly effect video games far more.

No, bad trolls like Uninspiredcup are the problem.

Wat kind of a thread is this?

You my favorite troll!

I can't say welcome on boards because you have 7000 posts and you must be familiar with the views of the majority in this website. While Cnet is based in California, the views of those who work for it and frequent the site is just as any red state sadly. Any attempt to address offensive content in games, stereotypes, representation and portrayal of minorities and other problems with mainstream video games or films is not tolerated.

This topic sir and your post is too confusing to understand. I will try to salvage what I can from it.

First the creator was trying to talk about women and then branched off in a rant about what he does not like in video games.

To salvage your post I will say I played the somewhat new Tomb Raider from Square and Crystal Dynamics. It features a female protagonist with other characters. The voice acting and game play are excellent. More developers should adopt the female protagonist options.

I give Tomb Raider a 9 out of 10.

I've taken a long hiatus from the GS forums so I don't know if the dudes claiming uninspired cup is a troll are serious or whatever.

Back on topic however, Uninspired cup does have some validity in his post - mainly the stuff to do with the prevailing Americentrism present in the majority (personal observation) of video games today.

Basically (if I'm interpreting his post correctly), Uninspiredcup is proposing the notion that gender issues, e.g. sexism, pro and anti-feminism and misogyny etc. isn't exactly the biggest problem facing the games industry today; he's highlighting the fact that something like the pervasiveness of Americentrism in games largely goes unnoticed - something he's hoping to change.

Whether you folks agree with his views are entirely up to you, but assuming he's a troll just because you find his post somewhat ambiguous is totes annoying y'all - it happens way to much on the internet and you guys think you're being humorous and witty by calling someone out but really...it's you guys who are the real trolls.

But 'whatevs', I guess I just got a chip on my shoulder tonight or something.

"Are woman really the problem?"

No, grammar and basic language skills are the problem.

-Byshop

Man and I thought Sniper had it bad when it comes to bad threads.

Although it may not be the most well-written post ever, the OP is relatively coherent.

I'm not trying to "white knight" uninspiredcup but dang it, at least he's attempting to initiate a topical and relevant thread hoping to garner intelligent conversations and what does he get? A bunch of smart-asses who like to point out (with ironically non-witty comments) how much more superior they are to someone who actually tries.

The OP has a long history of troll posts on this board which is why so many people aren't taking him seriously.

-Byshop

#@ Troll or not (I tend to find Inunspired to make posts that try to provoke discusion more tehn an actual troll, take that distinction or leave it).

He/She does have a fairly good point, but sadly the post was somewhat hard to read. There have indeed been alot of conflict within gaming and the views the industry have of women, and while Uninspired finds the americanisation to be a bigger issue, I will chalk both off as symptoms of something slightly different. In the AAA industry I think the following might be true.

Namely how characters in games seem to be nothing more then stereotypes, and bad generalizations of people. I find it odd that in the earlier years of gaming had way more women, diffrent coloured main protagonists, and way more diversity in nationalities. Then it all went away, and the straight White American mal emerged, a blockhead with an iq of 2 and his cast of helpless woman nr. 38 and arch nemesis British old fart nr. 22.

Basicly I think alot of the issues within the industry reguarding the characters comes Down to an industry driven by checkboxes and lack of innovation. bankrupt of ideas, not only in mechanics and gameplay but also in characters (characters do take Work to create).

But what we get are often faceless games, with that stereotype protagonist, and same throwaway cast of characters, which have begun to make the community groan.

I really think that is the reason for most of the agitatrions we see. And certain Groups of people to use this creative rut for own agendas. Even not making a statement (if that is the reason why they make those kinds of characters) is making a statement.

@Maddie_Larkin,

True statements Maddie, and I won't dispute them; however, I believe we're in a period of transition (heh, I guess we have been for sometime), we (as a collective) have hopefully realised that our industry has grown redundant and predictable; churning out clones of the same titles year in and year out.

Though the stereotypical paradigms you have described above were very much prevalent in the beginning of the 7th generation console cycle, I'm inclined to think the industry has noticed (actually they probably knew all along) and has decided to be more imaginative and original, hence why we are witnessing the boom of the independent developer and more new IPs developed by notable AAA developers, whilst being embraced by publishers and the industry at large.

I'll try to stay on topic which I think is the pervasiveness of americentric mentality in the gaming industry. I'm no expert but the main reason I believe this to be happening is due to the fact that the United States is the largest market for the gaming industry in the western hemisphere as well as being home to the majority of development studios, publishers, conventions, conferences and the gaming press.

This "monopolisation" (if you will) perhaps creates a sense of arrogance that permeates and bleeds through the development process; most notably the localisation process of titles made internationally. When you consider this, it's quite evident (in my opinion) that the main purveyor of this monopolised American-centric mentality are the large publishers who perhaps have the highest financial stake at play; to keep their investments financially sound, they "request" developers to pander to the largest market without considering whether certain accents/regional dialects and cultural quirks are at all relevant to a particular setting, backdrop, location or time; not to mention logistics in fluency and cultural background germane to an individual (in a video game) or lore.

The same can also be said about the film industry but that's for another topic.

P.S. I'm Australian so this is from a non-US resident's point-of-view; I'm trying to see things from a neutral perspective but it isn't always easy. Regardless, I find this to be an interesting topic for sure.

No, we haven't. We've had internet feminists picking on gaming to get other feminists to donate to their kickstarters.

Women at large have nothing to do with this.

America is the biggest market for games and is home to many of the largest game developers so it should come as no surprise that there is an American centered focus on the games. Americans are making games for Americans why would they not cater to their biggest market?

People just need to learn some basic economics and threads like this just need to stop.

Im a bit offended about the topic. Im a woman too. Haha. But actually, we just need to have something. I mean I myself I want more attention. I dont know with other women. Just sharing.

...What? Why exactly is everyone focusing on apparent "sexism" and "racism" in video games when we should be focusing on the actual gameplay itself and what we can improve on? This makes no sense to me, do you people even play video games? Why are you worrying about something so small and irrelevant?

@thatnordicguy: Gender issues, racial identity and the prevailing Americanisation of video games (and mass media) are far from being small and irrelevant topics in regards to the gaming industry and the fact that you mention: "Why exactly is everyone focusing on apparent "sexism" and "racism" in video games..." proves my point - that these are important subjects to discuss.

Another thing, just because people (and I guess the industry at large) are openly conversing about these topics doesn't mean it's neglecting the staples of what games are about i.e. graphical fidelity and gameplay mechanics; people in games will forever and always talk about, discuss and highlight graphics and gameplay matters but you have to admit that if all games are just about graphics and gameplay that'd be pretty dang boring. It's the worlds we craft and the stories we tell in a unique way that makes gaming so special.

With that in mind, it's what lends credence to the notion of video games as art - and what is art? Art is a synecdoche; it's the special as a representation of the whole and the whole as a representation of the special, and this is where things are going wrong. The parties that create AAA titles are - for many and various reasons - failing to use the special (i.e. games) to represent the whole (i.e. us) as the industry is inundated with titles that mainly represent straight Caucasian American men as the primary choice for protagonists; therein lies the problem - there are more people on this planet than just straight caucasian American males but many games have chosen to ignore this in favour of financial security and monetary gains.

@uninspiredcup: How the hell have you been a GS member for a year & 4 months with 7772 post? Do you even leave the computer man?

He is my best friend and i know long before we were member here. i mean VERY VERY long and he always talk logic.

Dont offend cutie. i know you are simple animu girl who cant play real manly games like Stalker. but its ok.

If you consider video games as art then you would not be trying to falsely assert that video games are rascist, sexist or too Americanized. Art reflects the artist, his culture and the time period that he creates his art. The reason you see so many American white males as protagonists is because the vast majority of game developers are white American males. Trying to say that art is a representation as a whole is factually inaccurate, if you go back 600 years and look at the art of France, Italy, Africa, and South America, you would see 4 very different art styles, representing 4 very different cultures. Art has always been a reflection of the artist in some way shape or form, video games are no different in this regard.

Asking people to censor their art for your politically charged notions of what is prejudiced is the same as going back in time and telling Michealangelo that he should include a more diverse array of people in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

I'm not sure relying on certain accents for characters is a trope, rather it's cultural cachet. Everything fantasy based does something similar to The Witcher with accents be it Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. People expect a villager to sound like they're from the English countryside of old(e), and if they don't it simply isn't convincing. It's completely different from reductive, malicious depictions of people or pro-hate depictions. I wish people would just grow up and figure this out already. Trope =! Problem.

No one is adversely affected by the accents in The Witcher - they just have what feels like a cohesive, believable game experience as a result. That us unless you're picking everything apart and ruining it for yourself. But hey, that's your problem.

The above problem is why so many people have just stopped caring everytime someone raises an issue like the kind above. They are generally ill-informed opinions pushed by a western-centric viewpoint of cultural diversity with no regard for what a game is trying to achieve (did it occur to the critic that diverse racial depiction might be secondary to having recognisable character archetypes or simply attractive characters?).

inspiredcup?

lulz.

Everyone speaks english because it's translated to that language anyway. That's a bad attempt at looking it differently. All women also speak english aswell