German group sues Valve

If you read closely Steam rules on game purchase, you dont actualy buy a game, you just borrow it. You have only access to them. Thats about it.

I do believe alot of people are getting mixed up on what "owning a game" is all about. If the lisense agreement that you agree to (by buying the game) is one of "you own the right to game and the disc itself. The game disc is now yours, so you may do whatever you wish with the disc", then fair enough you may sell the disc to someone else. However for games nowadays, the consumer is paying for the ability to play the game. Think of it as a TV lisense, or an Internet connection. You don't own the internets, you don't own the TV channels, you can't sell your TV signal to someone else, because you are subscribing to the service and nothing more.

In real lamens terms; When you buy a game its like an arcade machine. You put your money in to have the experience. Thats it. You don't own the arcade machine, you can not resell the arcade machine. You just pay for the experience it gives you.

I personally have no problem with that sort of service, but I can understand why some people would wish to resell their games to their friends, or to part exchange it.

reselling games will be a huge loss for steam and gaming companies, and why they're suing steam for not letting them sell they're games, if it's like that they should sue gamestop and other shops for not buying their used pc games first!, and i think steam is currently working on a trading system, i don't know if it's true, but that will be a very good option, trading a game with friends and others will not affect steam or gaming companies.

I really dont understand this..... if they win surely the potential of obliviating digital sales industry in Germany is a bad thing? Also as previously mentioned, alot of features offered through steam/valve surely makes it more of a service (eg steam cloud, workshop etc)

What if they implement a system allowing used games sales but they take a small cut as a compensation?

@Pro-Aktivity has a point. Me, being no fanboy of any company, being in retail or digital distribution. I can say that it feels curious, watching this debate.

In every market businesses operate by some rules. If online distributors, instead of competing on the same terms like other businesses, want to adjust the rules to their liking. What else is it than a distortion of the free market?

Isn't it in the terms and conditions that you can't sue Valve about this

I thought it was against the law to sue Valve.

A am not a fan of digital games, or digital distribution- I feel if you pay full price for a game, say Borderlands 2, then you should own it, be able to download it, play it and later on receive a hard copy retail box of it by mail if so desired with s/h charges.

BUT, in regards to the story above, when you buy digital games off steam or anywhere you are also agreeing to and basically signing a contract in there terms and services - that you are giving up your legal consumer rights, an agreeing to buying a digital copy that can only be used by one person, and at the sellers discretion. Therefore those guys in germany are SOL.

I do wish that new digital games cost alot less then box retail ones. Because, basically, once you purchase that digital game, dlc, etc it has ZERO value. You cannot trade it, give it to a family member, let a friend borrow it, or sell it used. And a lot of times have no recourse in regards to better business bureau - no way to complain if it does not work with your system, crashes your system, and no way to recoup your money- because you agreed to whatever you get. Now a retail copy at a brick and mortar store is protected by laws in each state, you can also legally resell it (like a used car, book, lawnmower, etc), share it with a friend (if able), trade it, and yes even pc editions of games even with their restrictions.

But digital games are easy, do not have to wait, do not have to worry about someone sitting on a disc, supposedly will always be there. And steam and valve really do a great job of optimizing and distributing games so damn well. I myself usually only buy old games dlc for the convenience and try to buy console games directly from a store or pc games if they allow it on more then one cpu, that way I can give it to my cousins and nephews when I am done with it. Germany's supreme court had to side with steam because digital versions of games are essentially a contract that makes the game more of a service and less of a product. As bandwidth allows more of the world to be opened up to digital content it will be up to each consumer to decide if the conveniences and services, balance out the value and restrictions of a new era where digital copies will be more prevalent then retail boxes.

I will miss the good ole days of legally taking the best songs from cassettes dubbing them to a blank, and cutting the tape down and giving them to chicks at the drive in.

Even though it would be great to be able to resell our digital games, think what it does to a company financially. Valve is a company that runs on a low price: high sales model. This is extremely beneficial for both consumer and producer.

Imagine if reselling of these very discounted games were possible. Valve would not be able to price these games as low due to the second-hand trading. This would, in the long run, cut Valve's overall sales tremendously. In business, an increase in quantity means a decrease in price. This is the idea that Valve has used for years, and us PC gamers have grabbed many games for a small fraction of the price that a console user would pay.

In conclusion, Valve is a business that operates for profit, like any business. However, unlike many of the huge producers such as EA, Activision, and Ubisoft, Valve prices games to benefit all parties. The other companies have price points that benefit them and only them.

Is there something wrong with that grey kitty?

VZBV successfully wins court case. German gamers rejoice.

Valve ceases all operations in Germany. German gamers QQ.

you can trade games for other games and in game items, which is more than any other digital distributor, what about xbox live games then?

digital distributors only need to put a sentence with something like this:

"you are not buying this game but only a authorisation to play it. The game is and will remain the property of company XYZ"

I hope I'm wrong though

The Resale of Digital games could destroy the entire concept of digital distribution since digital games dont age and cannot really be considered as used. This would mean disaster for any digital distributor since gamers could simply resell effectively new games to other gamers and destroy a large part of the income of Steam and other Digital distributors.

Start allowing resale, and prices will have to go up on steam... It's a total loss for both sides of the trade. Valve will lose money because less people will buy from them, and we will have to pay more to get games. It just complicates things. Gabe Newell is my hero, and Steam is already a gamer's utopia. Why the hell would we want to break the current market?

You can't have "used" digital copies of games if they are the same exact as "new". "Used" is for things that are physical/tangible and are vulnerable to wear and tear. It just doesn't make sense for digital copies. If this was possible why ever buy "new" if you get 100% of the same item for a lower price without having any sort of decrease in its actual value. You are paying for a license to play games on steam.

This is going to be an important battle in a lot of countries in the coming years. I don't see consumers winning out over these greedy publishers though. They are trying to re-define the very concept of ownership. Not just Valve, mind you. Book publishers are the worst. If they had their way there would be no book stores left in the next ten years.

When I buy something I like to think I own it. If I read a good book or play a good game, it should be my right to loan it to my friends so they can share in it, or I should be able to sell it if I want to. It's mine. I paid for it. It belongs to me. I am not a luddite when it comes to technology and I do see a lot of advantages to digital distribution, but sometimes I think the world is embracing it too quickly, and not giving very much thought over the consequences. So I support this group in their endeavours to preserve people's rights to own their own property.

It's bad enough consumers don't even get a discount in most cases when buying a digital version of a piece of media.

I'd love to be able to resell it. Even if it meant reselling back to Valve for just 10% (Better than nothing.)

What people don't understand is that it actually can work. Look at Green Man Gaming.

in other news, Germans still love David Hasselhoff

Sorry, but VZBV will lose this one. In Case C-128/11, UsedSoft GmbH v Oracle International Corp., states that the copyright holder (don't know where Gamespot got "content creator" because that term is never stated in the judgement and their is a difference) gives up his right on his hold on a computer program once a sale has been made. It also states that the new rightholder has the right to resell those rights to a different person on condition that he makes that computer program inoperable on his own computer. Also states that the new license holder may download that computer program from the copyright owner's website. Here's how Steam will get out of this. Steam is not the copyright owner of these games or, in Gamespot's words, the content creator. If a person wants to sell his games, then the new owner would have to download it from the developer/publisher's website. Steam does not have to provide this service, especially when they are not benefiting from it. Because a whole new infrastructure would have to be developed to monitor the transferring of license, what Steam may end up doing is providing this service for a percentage of the sale (maybe like 15%). Will people be outraged? Of course they would, but their choice is to download from Steam with it's more reliable servers for a fee, or download it from the developers/publisher's website, which many don't have that option other than EA's Origin. Another concern is what's to stop me from making a backup of my hard drive, selling my game and having the company deactivate the license on my computer, restore my hard drive and play that game in offline mode. I just got a free game.