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BioShock Infinite's religious themes led dev to consider quitting

Irrational Games developer so offended by scene in upcoming action game he wrote resignation letter (but did not quit); situation was a breakthrough for Ken Levine.

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One Irrational Games developer was so offended by the religious themes of a certain scene in BioShock Infinite that he sought to quit the company immediately after completing his playthrough of the level.

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"There was a scene in the game at the end where there's a gentleman here--one of our artists--who got to a point in the game, played it, turned off BioShock, opened up his computer, opened Microsoft Word, and wrote a resignation letter; it had offended him so much," Levine told GameSpot in a new video interview.

After it was brought to his attention, Levine spoke with this developer. His discussion with this "extremely religious guy" helped Levine better understand how to write the game's Comstock character, something he had struggled with for a long time.

"And I ended up having a conversation with him; my first impulse was I don't want this guy to go because he was a good guy and a talented guy," Levine said. "And we actually ended up having a long talk; he was an extremely religious guy and when we started talking, I realized that something I could connect to was a notion of forgiveness and what an important part that is of the New Testament and why Christ was such a revolutionary figure."

"I realized that something I could connect to was a notion of forgiveness and what an important part that is of the New Testament and why Christ was such a revolutionary figure."

"And thinking about how I would incorporate the power of that notion to Comstock into his world was, to me, the key. Because who hasn't done things that they don't want to be forgiven for?"

This developer did not end up quitting Irrational Games.

This was a breakthrough for Levine. He explained that writing Comstock, the religious, ultranationalist antagonist of BioShock Infinite, had been a long and difficult struggle due to his lack of personal religious knowledge.

"[Comstock] was one of the toughest characters for me to write because I don't have a religious background, let alone the darker side of his beliefs; the racist side of his beliefs. So I really had a lot of trouble writing him for a long time," Levine explained.

"And it occurred to me I had to figure out why do people follow him? That was the key to his character. Why do people follow him? What does he provide to them? And I struggled with that for a long time because obviously an ecstatic religious experience is something that a religious leader provides but I don't have a connection to as a writer," he added. "And it's always hard when you're trying to write something that you have never felt. And that would feel dishonest to me."

BioShock Infinite is due out on the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, and PC on March 26. For more, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.

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TTDog

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Edited By TTDog

Much as I despise religion and the fact that regardless of which branch of idiocy you follow the words are always distorted to mean whatever the protagonist wants them to mean... it's an easy way of creating conflict for a game.


More lives have been lost through religious wars than any other over the course of history, and even though there is not one hint of evidence to prove the existence of any God it will continue to do so.

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AyatollaofRnR

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@TTDog Ever heard of Stalin of Mao? The body count is in the 10's of millions.

Also were WWI and 2 religious nope.

Fun with facts!

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TTDog

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Edited By TTDog

@AyatollaofRnR: And I suppose the Jews were persecuted because of the way they looked?

History extends 1,000's of years and there have been hundreds of wars or conflicts because of religion, there are religious conflicts going on now where people are being killed... in some cases between two different branches of the same religion where "interpretation" of the same religious text is different.

Even the English Civil War in the 1640's had elements of religious conflict between protestant and catholics and that is a minor matter compared to other wars... nobody was counting people killed as the Roman Empire was built or during the Crusades.

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TTDog

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@Zerabp: Yet it was still only Jews who were rounded up... not Catholics... not Methodists... not Protestants... just Jews. Coincidence? Unlikely considering his hatred of the perceived "Jewish Race" by the protagonist.

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Zerabp

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@TTDog The Jews were persecuted by Nazis because of Eugenics, it had nothing to do with their faith as they killed non-practicing Jews as well...

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larsinii

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Edited By larsinii

@TTDog Shut the hell up and stop spreading your worthless lies. Where are your numbers to back up your moronic claim that more lives have been lost in religious wars than any other in history? I bet all the religious wars were on the scale of WW II yeah? Moron

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Atragon

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@TTDog Atheists have never caused wars or countless lives to be lost, right? If you really believe that, then your beliefs are about as narrow as it gets.

There is not one shred of evidence to show exactly how the universe was created, either. The answer is probably something unbelievable either way, so why rule something out without knowing? Such is true idiocy.

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TTDog

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@Atragon Never said they hadn't... and my beliefs were never brought into it... but I've more trust in Science than any religious text.

I'm more inclinded to believe the big bang theory than the religious one where everything just "popped" into existence because an omnipotent being willed it... especially when this same being has been remarkably absent ever since.

Add into this that Science has debunked many religious beliefs and I'll just ignore anything with "God" in the title... archaeologists have found items thousands of years older than some religious zealots claim the Earth to be, and the "these were placed there to test our faith" argument is just sad.

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TTDog

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@AyatollaofRnR: The only connection to religion is the scientists working on it have named what they're looking for The God Particle.

Probably because its existence effectively proves his non existence.

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AyatollaofRnR

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@TTDog @Atragon big bang theory is actually not incompatible with belief in God or a creation event at all.

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xXNutcrackerXx

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@Atragon

In his defense he said "more lives" not "all lives" or "all conflicts". There was definitely a condescending tone in the comment, but be sure not to add words between the lines of what somebody is saying.

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TTDog

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@xXNutcrackerXx Don't try using logic... it confuses them.

There's also a saying "never argument with an idiot... they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" which is rather apt when you consider most of the posts on Gamespot.

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Femto513

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But then the developer said "wait a second, I've got bills to pay." Then he closed Microsoft Word and got back to work.

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petez34

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Edited By petez34

@Femto513 lol...probably true!

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ZOD777

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Edited By ZOD777

@fireandcarnage "erm it's kinda a given that if a religion would tell you the other religion is wrong because if it wasn't wrong they why would you follow said religion, you'd follow ther other instead, it's kinda like science you can't agree on two contradicting hypotheses and if they don't contradict there isn't a point in having two"

First of all, bravo on getting through almost 1400 comments before getting to me. Second, religion is nothing like science, and in fact, they are practically diametrically opposed to one another. Third, I said nothing about following a religion, but was only pointing out that if there are 100 religions all believing that they are the only true religion, the other 99 are dead wrong (assuming one of them is in fact spot on). Chances are stacked in favor of a religion being false. That is the point I was making, not whether or not religions should denounce, or discredit the other.

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Kal-El-

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I think they are just rising a hype for the game. Otherwise, the guy is just freaking moron and there is nothing more further we could comment about it. Just a waste of the fresh air and space......

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Thanatos2k

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Edited By Thanatos2k

Offends the extremely religious? Sounds like my kind of game then.

Lame that this guy threatening to quit caused the writer to cave though.

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xXNutcrackerXx

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@Thanatos2k

I actually think Levine handled it very well. It's not caving in to realize weaknesses in your characters. He used a situation that could have been a person quitting and turned it into making his product better. I don't think the dev was trying to make a statement. He may just have not felt comfortable working on something he didn't agree with. Everyone has the right to quit if they choose. We don't know all the details, but Levine seemed pretty classy.

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Mamamf

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Without more details about the scene and why it offended him, i think it's wrong to make any kind of judgements. The interview got me more curious about the game I hope the themes are deeply explored in the game and not just a paintjob.

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IJONOI

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@Mamamf 'The interview got me curious about the game'... I can't help but think that was the purpose of this B$ article.

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Mamamf

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@IJONOI @Mamamf yeah the article is a bit meh but i was referring to the video interview, i never was a great fan of the art style of bioshock series (big colour contrast in underwater city seemed wrong to me.) but i think it might have the opposite effect in this one. And the themes are pretty cool, just hope it's more to it then just shooting things

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IJONOI

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@Mamamf @IJONOI agreed, and i never thought about the colour scheme before. vry valid point!

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philMcCrevis

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what a freaking loser. i cannot stand people that take offense at every conceivable opportunity. be religios but respect others more casual inclinations and perspectives towards religion. if you cannot find humor and appreciate others views on your religion, go find a cave to live in.


Personally, i believe religion is a very valuable tool as a crutch for week people to lean on as they stumble through life with no idea how to be a good person. and I've spent 40 years listening patiently while these fools tell me i'm going to hell for not believing the same things as them. But as soon as I share my personal feelings about religion and god, they get offended.


If Levine were not such a public, high profile leader in the gaming world, i assure you - hed tell this moron to take a hike. but he has to take a different road as he cannot afford someone to make a PR mess out of it.

$50 says the employee is muslim. They have no problem stoning women to death in the streets for having the audacity to be a rape victim... but god forbid a game offend them.

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whalesex

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@philMcCrevis I'm not sure you should be calling people morons when you clearly have issues with spelling and grammar.

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Lambentodo

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@philMcCrevis

No, he was a Christian.

Christians take offense almost as often as Muslims do, albeit with less violent reactions.

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D0UBLEJUMP

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@philMcCrevis *mostly less violent reactions...just incredibly, incredibly annoying ones...

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twentymooseman

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Edited By twentymooseman

@philMcCrevis He specifically references Jesus Christ in one of the quotes so my guess is that the guy was Christian. And if this little incident gave him a clearer perspective on the character and added deeper characterization to someone who may have otherwise been a lame caricature, then I'm all for it. Games need to start taking on more difficult themes and religion is probably one of the least explored themes in gaming. If Bioshock Infinite can break some new ground there and discuss why people follow religious leaders and the effects of something as powerful as religion, then I'm perfectly ok with this dude's whining if it brings us closer to that.

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clockworkengine

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Edited By clockworkengine

I can imagine Levine having an introverted epiphany, nodding and oblivious as he stared into the eyes of his venting employee. "You're not fired because I'm a genius."

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frylock616

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Im not trying to sound like that guy but...I would have just let him quit. I can bring anyone else in to take that guys place. He has no problem creating a game where you just kill a bunch of people but something religious offended him? I don't care if people worship whatever or choose to be hypocritical CHristians, Catholics Atheist or whatever. Just dont bring that shit into the workplace or onto other people who usually don't talk about that shit socially anyway. Its dumb and it pretty much messes up the vibe of the whole team.

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thepyrethatburn

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@frylock616 It's easy to make a game that offends.


It's hard to try to understand another person's view and, by doing so, create a game that challenges.

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benelori

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Edited By benelori

@thepyrethatburn @frylock616

Yeah...and I love it that he actually went that way and sat down with the guy and took the challenge.

But even without knowing what was the offending scene, frylock616's point on hypocrisy still stands IMO.

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darkvaper

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The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about ...

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Lambentodo

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@darkvaper

It is equally ignorant to assume that non-believers are ignorant about religion. That they just haven't "hear the good news" yet.

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Bfnll86

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Thanks for sharing the story Eddie Makuch. It just goes to show that when two people sit and sensibly reason, that they can create understanding and tear down the emotional and irrational prejudices that litter our world today. (see discussion, on any comment thread anywhere)

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Atombomb1981

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The developer was part of the team because of his programming skills, not his religious beliefs.

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Sepewrath

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I wonder if the scene was changed.

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Lord_OfThe_Sith

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@Sepewrath From everything I have seen and read, yes Levine sold out.

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Centurion95

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So Mr. Levine, upon hearing that one of his team was offended by a moment in the game, because he was a religious person, went up to him and had a long, thoughtful talk with him, seeking to find in a civil matter the cause for the issue and both men walked out with a better understanding of each other, the Christian decided to stay and Levine got to understand the importance of the notion of forgiveness for Christians and religious people in general, a notion he admits not having prior experiance understanding and may just end up make the end of the game even more powerful.

Screw that! We all know the proper way to deal with a religous person is to call them primitive/stupid and cast them out! How dare Levine treat them like a person!

Seriously though Levine showed more understanding and open-mindedness then I'd say 90% of the internet right there.

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@Centurion95

Some of my best friends are religious. I treat them like people (what does that even mean?) but I still critizise their thoughts. Even the nicest people can have stupid thoughts. And even people who are not dumb can be religious. Some people are just christians because they never learned not to be ones. They just took over what they knew from their parents without ever questioning it.

If religion was something people would choose consciously and without prejudice, you could not draw a map of religions. But you can. Which proves that people, even smart ones, have a blind spot for religion. May that be out of respect for their parents or out of nostalgia or because they are part of a community (peer pressure).

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Darth_Ultima

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@Centurion95 I think there is more to religion then that. We live in a cruel unforgiving world. It is comforting to some to think that there is a higher purpose to all this. I have never been able to make that leap of faith but I do not begrudge those who can nor do I call there beliefs stupid or criticize them for wanting to believe in something that makes sense to them. Is not criticizing someones beliefs a form of prejudice?

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bannermanner

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@Gandaleon You can criticize certain beliefs without being condescending and insensitive about it. If phrases like "face the truth" and "childish make-believe" aren't indicative of some sort of pretentious prejudice, it's something else -- and definitely not a good thing.

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Gandaleon

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@Darth_Ultima @Centurion95

No. People want religion to be more then that. And the comforting part is exactly my point. The truth is often uncomfortable and most people rather choose to believe in the most absurd things then to face the truth.
It's convienient to think you'll be reborn because we all think we are so unique and important that there is no way we could just disappear. But that's just childish make-believe.
And the answer to that question is "no". Was Martin Luther King critizising racism because of "prejudice"? Was Martin Luther critizising the catholic church out of "prejudice"? Saying critizising something is the same as having a prejudice against someone is just nonsense.

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banana23man

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@Centurion95 To ridicule a person who believes in Santa is of no importance. To ridicule a person who believes in imaginary friends (despite having no scientific evidence) is a crime, sometimes deserving of a death sentence. Hmm... nothing wrong there.

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Nikz1

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To the person (or people) who said religious people are not intelligent. A few religious people: Gerhard Ertl (who won the Nobel Prize in chemistry; he is still living)) Charles Townes (who won the Nobel Prize in physics) he is still living; Robert Bakker (who discovered that some dinosaurs were warm blooded, not cold blooded) he is still living; William Phillips (who won the Nobel Prize in physics) he is still living. And historically, Pascal, Copernicus (who discovered the sun, not the Earth, is at the center of the solar system); Kepler (discovered the laws of plantary motion), Isaac Newton (of gravity fame); Max Planck (Nobel prize in physics); and Heisenberg (of uncertainty principle fame).

The list goes on and on, of both living and dead intellectuals and scientists.

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Lord_OfThe_Sith

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@Nikz1

The Polish astronomer Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543) never liked the Earth-based view of the universe, yet he never publicly announced his views until he was old. This was due to the Church -- anyone who opposed Church doctrine was branded a heretic, and that would destroy your reputation, put you in prison, or even sentence you to death.

Copernicus did not invent the idea of a heliocentric - sun-centered - system, but he was the first modern person to advance it. The heliocentric model was able to easily explain things that the geocentric system had a hard time doing, most notably the seemingly retrograde motion of the planets. The planets usually follow an eastward direction in the sky, but sometimes they mysteriously flip and travel westward. The geocentric model attempted to solve this by adding extra orbits upon orbits that the planets would follow. However, the heliocentric model explains this with the Earth simply reversing direction of movement relative to the planet being observed.

Copernicus' publication On the Revolution of the Celestial Spheres was not published until after he died in order for him to avoid being persecuted by the Church. Often called the Copernican Revolution, this actually was not much of a revolution. The book was published in Latin, so the general public was not able to read it. Academics could, but few learned people were willing to face the Church and risk death. It wasn't even until 73 years after it was published, 1616, did the Church consider it important enough to place on its Index of Prohibited Books.

However, it did put heliocentric views out in the restricted open, and it was useful to people such as Galileo to help revolutionize astronomy in Europe.

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Nikz1

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Edited By Nikz1

@Lord_OfThe_Sith @Nikz1 Thanks actually writing something intelligent in this forum that's mostly been dedicated to knee-jerk comments.

I thought Copernicus had invented that theory, so thanks for that. How did he end up getting all the credit?

I don't dispute that he was afraid of being punished for his theory -- I was just making the point that he was religious.

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Nikz1

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@Lord_OfThe_Sith @Nikz1 I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

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Lord_OfThe_Sith

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@Nikz1 @Lord_OfThe_Sith You are correct he was religious. He was also and rightly so extremely afraid of the church and what it might do. As mentioned his book was the first one the church was willing to publicly admit to. If memory serves Aristarchus, a Greek philosopher wrote about a heliocentric universe first.

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banana23man

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Edited By banana23man

@Nikz1 A study in 1998 by the journal Nature showed 72% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences are atheists and 21% are agnostic which leaves 7% religious. According to Mensa Magazine in 2002, of the 43 studies regarding relationship between religiosity and level of education, 39 studies shows an inverse relationship between level of education and religiosity, ie the higher the level of education, the less religious a person.

As to why some great scientists in the past were religious, it could have been because of lack of scientific discoveries that refute the existence of god, the stigma that comes with being a non believer or even the fact that you could not get an education if you're not religious (which is something still prevalent today. In the UK, 1/3 of the schools are faith school and it's really hard to secure a place for your children in those schools if the parents and/or children are not religious)

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Nikz1

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Edited By Nikz1

@banana23man It was a letter published in the journal discussing a poll, not a scientific study. Many of those people I listed are alive today. But your point is taken. Those who value logic above all else, and only believe what is proven to them scientifically, are not going to be religious. But not all intelligent people - and not even most intelligent people (according to an MIT poll) - circumscribe valuable experience that narrowly. Even Einstein, who did not believe in a personal god, did believe in something divine about the universe, and shunned the label atheist. No one but Einstein will ever know what the contours of his beliefs were, but he did not subscribe to a world of logic and only logic. Religious experience is not about cold logic; it is not something you can conjure with a calculator. If you believe that logic is all, the beginning and the end of everything, then you will not be religious. Period. And that's fine for you. Heck I love Sherlock Holmes! But if you believe that there is something of value outside of the realm of pure logic, you may be spiritual, you may be religious. I was simply taking exception to the statement - not made by you - that religious people by definition must not be intelligent.

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Gandaleon

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@Nikz1

I can understand why Einstein would say such a thing. If you study the universe and all the things that go on around you you can't help but be amazed. We see divine beauty in the universe. But this divinity is not actually part of it - it is in ourselves. Without a sentient mind to appreciate it - the universe is ... just there.

Besides - the way Einstein describes his spirituality - I have no problem with that. If that was all that religion about I would not critizise it like that.

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Darth_Ultima

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@banana23man When I worked doing IT support for neuroscience research I had plenty of experience working with "educated" people. Scientists are some of the most closed minded dogmatic people I have ever met and would give the religious zealots of the world a run for their money as to who are the most closed minded.

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GeorgeSyll

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Every single time religion gets mixed up in something, things get so ridiculously funny......xD

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SavoyPrime

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Edited By SavoyPrime

Really looking forward to this. I'm expecting a lot from the story-side of things.

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InFI_Chronos

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Glad they delayed the game as much as they did. Gives them more time to polish it. Irrational Games seems to care about what they give their consumers.

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somebody337

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Edited By somebody337

Wow a lot of hate around these parts :P

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augmira

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@somebody337 Not just these parts...

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