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AAA game development can be 'soul-crushing,' says Warren Spector

Deus Ex, Epic Mickey designer says working on big-budget games is "a lot less fun than making games should be."

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The process of making big-budget, AAA games can be a challenging endeavor that breaks a person's spirits. That's according to Deus Ex and Epic Mickey designer Warren Spector, who told Games Industry International that developing such projects comes with many burdens.

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"As cool as triple-A games are, the time and money that go into them now is just soul-crushing, at least for me," Spector said. "There are so many voices you have to listen to, so many legitimate stakeholders; it's just a lot less fun than making games should be."

Spector is recently jobless, after Disney shuttered Junction Point Studios at the end of January. The industry veteran does not know what he plans to do next.

According to Just Cause developer Avalanche Studios creative director Stefan Ljungqvist, big-budget games are here to stay, though they may decrease in number.

"I don't think big-budget games are going away," Ljungqvist said this week. "There's going to be less of them. But that's a good thing, because maybe we don't need 40 first-person shooters. I don't want to play them all [laughs], but maybe we need one, two or three."

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TaintedMindz

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@macross61 Five years... that's nothing. Some people work 40-50 years in factories with much lower pay. So excuse me if I don't show that much sympathy toward these people.

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deactivated-5ef23bf87a5e1

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@TaintedMindz @macross61 lol stfu MARX

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Viper_J

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@TaintedMindz @macross61 You cannot compare working in a factory to Game/software development. The latter is not as easier. Working in a factory doesn't involve the brain too much. You just need to learn how to manipulate the machine or what to do. Now, compare that to a job where you are constantly thinking and putting yourself under mental stress. Add to that the fact that in software development you work more than 8 hours a day, until very very late hours and you don't get much sleep. Yes, you sleep little and think very much. Now imagine yourself trying to think when you are tired.

That is why software development pays higher salaries: working in a factory is easier as you don't have to use your brain that much.

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deactivated-5d4e6334bc1ce

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@TaintedMindz

Ha! Bland pragmatic activism.

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2bitSmOkEy

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Edited By 2bitSmOkEy

@queuing_for_PS4 @Sardinar have you played Deus Ex?

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Shinobi120

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He is right. Face it, AAA development nowadays is risky, due to higher development costs of making those games. If a certain AAA title doesn't sell enough copies to make back the investment (& I mean, a ton of copies), then the company either winds up losing a ton of money (like Square-Enix with Tomb Raider), or the studio risks going bankrupt (see the huge list below for that).

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514914

What they need to do is to cut down on AAA development (go make fun, quality titles that aren't AAA & all about graphics/cinematics), & cut down on the excessive spending for marketing/advertising the games.
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arc_salvo

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@Shinobi120 Yeah, I've always thought that the excessive focus on graphics was a bad trend that would end up pricing out a lot of good game companies out of the marketplace.

It's why I love Kickstarter and the Indie scene. They focus on quality, not big budget, and gameplay, not just useless eyecandy. Not to say the graphics are bad by any means, just that they're not overpriced and overdone for no reason. You can have good graphics without spending a ton of money nowadays, imho. Graphics had been in HD and high quality for a while now.

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ballermat982

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Edited By ballermat982

@Shinobi120 Thanks for that link. So sad what is happening in this industry. I hope devs and publishers start wising up.

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StonerDemon

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Don't you dare to touch Phineas & Ferb, Warren. I like that show and I still wanna like it.

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91210user

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That's why I don't watch the Disney Channel!

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SavoyPrime

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And putting out two lackluster games in a row isn't "soul-crushing" Warren? What happened to him? o_O

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StonerDemon

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Come on Mr. Spector, stop giving excuses... your Mickey game sucked!!! Deal with it!

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yboucher

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@StonerDemon they probably sucked because he had to listen to all these various stakeholders and in the end, had his hands tied as to what he was allowed to do. THAT'S HIS WHOLE POINT, you guys clearly can't read between the lines.

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thermalmotion

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@yboucher @StonerDemon Such as allowed to refine Mickey's jump mechanic?

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dzimm

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Edited By dzimm

Or fix the shitty 3rd person camera?

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Goyoshi12

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Edited By Goyoshi12

I realize that was the genius behind the original Deus Ex, a defining and inspirational piece of gaming that set the standards for generations to come, but...face facts. Warren is just losing it these days (I'm not 100% certain this is correct but) look at the games he's made after that: Invisible War? Epic Mickey? Epic Mickey 2? He's losing it.

It's sad to see, really, how big he got thanks to Deus Ex and now to see just how far he's fallen. He's got good intentions and knows well about the industry but I can just barely agree with him these days due to all the mediocrity that he's produced. He may have made Deus Ex but does one amazing game truly allow him to get away with such poor quality games? I hope you find work someday Warren and I also hope it ISN'T with Deus Ex. I want you to move onto something new, not like Epic Mickey but something really new like Deus Ex when it came out, something different. I don't want you end up as being known as JUST the guy who made Deus Ex.

If you decide to stay in the field, I wish you the best of luck.

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davidsworld3

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@Goyoshi12 He only has this view because hes not seeing the money after all the work but um...he has made several bad games after his one great game so he really has himself to blame. Epic mickey is not a triple A title hell I wouldn't even say Dues Ex is I mean it's a good game but it got boring for me, a little too complicated. I prefer exellent games like Halo Combat Evolved was simple looked great for it's time and was fun to play, didn't try too hard to make things harder on us by giving us several different buttons that do different thing. point and shoot and had a satisfying impact. Too many games try too hard to beat it but then thats why we have series like red vs blue that I still watch. All thanks to Halo bitches. Why am I talking about halo? sorry.

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Lost-to-Apathy

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Edited By Lost-to-Apathy

@davidsworld3 @Goyoshi12

You're talking about Halo because you're stupid.

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Kungfu_Kenobi

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@Goyoshi12

He's always wanted to do experimental titles. Deus Ex came from the same place as those others - Warren not wanting to execute well against well known problems, preferring to risk failing spectacularly trying something new. I don't disagree with his philosophy per se, but this is the very reason we got DX: Invisible War, and all that other stuff. That's how Warren operates.

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Thanatos2k

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The fact that you can't make a decent game anymore is also soul crushing Spector. What happened? Or were you not really behind Deus Ex?

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2bitSmOkEy

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Edited By 2bitSmOkEy

@queuing_for_PS4 gross. a high rated queuing for ps4 comment.

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Deadly_Nemesis

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Warren, don't make AAA games then. Go back to making A games which were spectacular.

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nephili232

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Edited By nephili232

Managing the competing interests and trying to come out with something enjoyable is the challenge... and it was your job! Stop whining. Plenty of tougher jobs out there.

He can always follow Tim Schafer's lead and just give up. Start making forgettable, disposable downloadable titles and waltz around like some sort of creative hero.

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brxricano

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Your ideas are soul crushing. For children.

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LoG-Sacrament

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If that's how he feels, I hope he is able to get involved in some smaller projects. Digital distribution is stronger than ever.

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grbolivar

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Another crybaby that earns 500k a year and still has his "soul crushed" for making a game. If you don´t like it drop out and let another more competent person take your place. Gosh.

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nutcrackr

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Know what? Only that the long night is over. The crown of government is tarnished, but that will fade in time. The riots, a fever dream; the plague, a horrible nightmare; and like everything else that's happened such things will only be dimly remembered upon waking to their normal lives. In the end, all sins are forgiven. Even yours.

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unreal_master

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@queuing_for_PS4 They had two chances. TWO!

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Sardinar

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If you're being controlled by a greedy publisher - then yes, it's not fun. As simple as that.

I bet CDProjekt Red enjoy their job to the last.

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GIXX3R

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Edited By GIXX3R

Hey Warren - enough of your boring talks. You've wasted enough time with Disney. It's time for you to return to your roots. Pack your bags and head to Montreal. I'd like to see you work on Deus Ex.

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91210user

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Edited By 91210user

@GIXX3R I can't wait to show him the mod I designed and I am currently making for Deus Ex :)

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gamebuyer22

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Well i hope Epic Mickey 1 or 2 were not considered AAA or had the budget of one. They were both pretty bad. It used probably the most famous cartoon character yet the games have horrible limited animations. Bad production values period. Paint/thinner was completely stupid for a Mickey game. Then he does co op\AI partner ugh. For months leading up to Epic Mickey 2 all he was doing was talking about these improvements. Blah blah blah game turned out shit and he disappeared.

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aovannor

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Edited By aovannor

Seems a lot of people like to bad mouth big developments once they arn't working on them anymore or when they can't land a job with them. Who'd have thought?

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Taegre

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Edited By Taegre

@aovannor Another way to say it: People tend to speak their mind about a company when they don't have to worry about being fired from it anymore.

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aovannor

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@Taegre @aovannor Or.. they change thier minds because they become bitter when they arn't good enough to play with the big boys anymore.

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Viper_J

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Edited By Viper_J

@russelloh @aovannor @Taegre Many people won't understand you because they don't know about software development. Look at some of the comments saying the guy shouldn't be crying when he was earning a good salary. It is not about the salary, hell, it even goes beyond what you say. Imagine those guys doing 90 hours a week for three years, they release the software, in some cases it sells, other it doesn't. They, then, just move on onto the next project. It is not even about how much you earn.

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96augment

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Edited By 96augment

@russelloh @aovannor Visceral Games isn't out of business.

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aovannor

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Edited By aovannor

@russelloh @aovannor And where did I say that's the 'only' reason they would make those claims? You've put words in my mouth. I'm open to all possibilities but the point is we'll never know which one is the truth. You're the one saying the 'only' reason they slag them off is because working for them is horrible. You're the one making bogus claims.

Stop passing off obviously false statements like "No one "becomes bitter" after they leave- the entire time they worked for a AAA publisher they hated it." as fact. It's not even debatable that that is true.

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russelloh

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@aovannor Your original post, yes. I disagree 100% with your claim that people only feel this way after they leave, and are no longer "good enough". It has nothing to do with being good enough- Dead Space 3 was great, went out of business a day later. Dragon Age 1 was loved, EA destroyed it. SimCity was once a great series- AAA DRM and always-on decisions made it unplayable. The list goes on and on. No one "becomes bitter" after they leave- the entire time they worked for a AAA publisher they hated it.

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aovannor

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Edited By aovannor

@russelloh @aovannor @Taegre You've kinda just proved the point I was tryig to make with that comment. Thanks!

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russelloh

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@aovannor @Taegre Nope. Try working 90 hour weeks for 3 years, releasing a critically acclaimed game, then get let go the day it releases so they don't have to pay your bonus. Which the CEO of the Publisher, who's never even set foot in your building, or even your city, collects. Then, come back and let me know what any of that had to do with "being good enough to play with the big boys".

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Taegre

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@aovannor Either is possible, but you can't dismiss all the claims of a pioneer of modern gaming as sour grapes.

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cjlebron

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Again, what is the point of this story? Is this what passes for journalism?

So and so says X which is related to but opposite of when so and so said Y just days before. End of story.

Really? I mean, really?

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finalkain

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@cjlebron The point is the industry is killing what made it good in the first place. Passion. Vision.

Now all everyone sees is Bottom Line and thats it. Every F'n day its a new article, "Didnt sell XMil copies, Didnt meet expectations"

Developer forced to shut down/Bought up by EA Activision Microsoft.


Thats all we see nowdays. Thats what hes talking about.

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kohle36

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Edited By kohle36

@finalkain @cjlebron If that's what he's talking about, why didn't he say it? Because he's just reposting tweets and interview snippets from other games journalists. I can see how these quotes can be seen as representative of a host of other issues, but none are actually alluded to in the article.

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Justin_G

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@kohle36 @finalkain @cjlebron Makuch, the insidious s*** stirrer!1

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cjlebron

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Edited By cjlebron

@finalkain @cjlebron Of course - I get that. But I mean as a piece of journalism this is about as empty as empty gets. It's basically reporting two sentiments and that's all. It's not as if the sentiment is paired with an interview to enlighten us about the vicissitudes of AAA publishing. This isn't journalism as there is nothing informative about this piece at all. This is one of a number of pieces i've now seen from Mr. Makuch that strike me as quite unnecessary.

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Starkzard

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Edited By Starkzard

Go back to Deus Ex if you can, you tried Mickey two times Warren, and that didn't work out too well.

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blackace

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Edited By blackace

Epic Mickey was far from epic. Trying to make a "AAA" game and not delivering is probably even more soul-crushing. I really think a lot of money gets wasted when developers make games. I can see why big investors aren't killing themselves to invest in games. The return is far from a guarantee.

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