The Fighting Game Community On Reputation & Mainstream Relevance
The top players from the fighting game community, alongside Mad Catz representative Mark Julio, talk to GameSpot on whether there's an image problem within the fighting game community and how it can reach within the same eSports level as LoL.
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Its cause alot of older people that didn't grow up around games don't understand them and they connect dots that have the slightest relevance. Like any time theres a shooting now, 50% of the time the newspapers will say "He played Call of Duty." It seems to be the same thing here. History has shown that some people are just more violent than others..... and now some of them happen to play video games.
As far as I knew I thought the fighting game community had a lot of great and friendly people. So what if that guy hit his girlfriend? Does the fact he played fighting games have anything to do with it? I think if he's willing to inflict battery on his loved ones then regardless of whether he plays fighting games or not he would have done it anyway. Hell, I've played fighting games since I was 6 years old and I've never once injured anyone or even considered it, much like I'm sure many others haven't!
Fighting are are much more technical then DotA games.
More combos, skills, countering and you have to study frame animation.
PC is missing fighting games, yeah.
Glad MK came to PC, shame it took 2 years.
Hope to see more, but I think loyalty to Sony might cause a few series to never come over. So sad.
FGs are great. The FGC? Sure, I guess it's ok too. Problem is investing in it is a pipe dream. Wake up people, too many of you are wasting your lives. Go get a real job, and play for fun. You'll remember these words when you wake up one day and realize FGs aren't paying the mortgage
Fuck that shit news about the fighting game player hit his GF. what the fuck is this? scientists hit their wives, doctors hit, and others also do stupid things, why is it surprising when a fighting game player hit his GF? bunch of dudes ruin their lives for online games every year, the problem is this.
Wow, Mark Judo is clearly not seeing straight. The FGC has embraced racists and sexists like few others. Remember Aris last year? He humiliated the FGC in a pre-release event for Street Figther x Tekken and drove a player out of a tournament, and a few months later, he was making the non-Capcom streams unwatchable at fucking EVO. Sorry, but when you can't bar the cancerous elements from the biggest event in your circuit, you have a problem. MLG would never put some XBL bastard in a hosting position at an MLG event for Call of Duty or Halo.
for me bigest problem with fighting games is that there arent many of them on pc most of the time i play the ones made with mugen D:
I love the fighting game community. I am awful at fighting games; I bought an arcade stick for $100 though just because I love the games so much. I never attended a tournament because there are none in my area (and because I'd get bodied) but I watch almost all the major tournaments. It is one of the most light-hearted, funny, friendly and hypest communities there is. I think the way it is now is almost perfect; sure it would be great to expand, but then all those positive things I just said might disappear. It should stay the way it is and let the thousands who truly love these games be the ones who define it.
Fighting games are something many I ask say are "intimidating". I don't see it, like many game genres they're as deep as you want to make them. You get as good as the time you invest and learn its mechanics.
Certainly nothing wrong with not being a genius combo linking machine, may I say... Why should that only reason turn you away, and get you wanting it going down a more casual root entirely?
Just because the average Joe can't be bothered learning advance tactics in the preparation stages of practice, shouldn't conclude with the genre holding hands, and dumb down. All so they feel on par with gamers who actually enjoy the complexity of fighters in a higher tournament level.
Reality is. If you're not a pro fighting gamer, or have the dedication to become one? Then accept the fact you're not! Move on. And you'll enjoy it much more.
However, if losing is really that big a deal for ones ego? Set up matches with people who play with your similar experience. & surprisingly you'll still have loads of fun. Fighters are multiplayer focused and can be enjoyed on any level of depth.
The idea of damaging such a hardcore genre to please the masses should never come to be in my opinion.
The FGC doees not need to become like LoL or whatever else eSports has to offer. The fans are there, the tournaments are great, great players emerge every other week. As long as game makers put out great fighting games, there is nothing to fear.
We don't need any perception. We are here and not going anywhere.
They cannot touch complexity its integral to what a fighting game is, a gradient of skill levels, and aptitude... like an onion with varying layers, its always a joy for me to up my game, to grow as a player. I definitely don't want this genre to be dumbed down, if anything dumbing down games has ruined them, broader appeal is always in conflict with depth. People want to be pros' right out of the box, its still one of the last genres where effort and strategic thinking is required and no surprise, people don't want to learn. I think eventually developers will either dumb down their products or create two different ones.... the MVC3 to your SSF4AE.
As long as human beings are involved in any sport, you will always find, rude, un-sportsmanship like behavior, I don't think the fighting genre is unique in that respect. It is a bit of a sausage fest but so was gaming in general for a long while, things will change, will be it be for the better or worse, is a point of perspective... dumbing a genre down so you can sell more copies is better for the developer... is it better for the genre... I personally don't think so, but I know people who do think its a good thing.
as an example gamers who are old enough to have played Baldur's gate wonder why there are no great rpg's like it anymore. You can look at mass effect 1 to mass effect 3, and notice how things have been homogenized and the whole game eventually turned into a FPS-like game with FPS-like duck and cover mechanics.
Is it better?, well depends on who you ask...
I agree with much of what these guys are saying. In particular, on Mark Ross' point about fighting games needing to become more accessible and free to play. Tekken Revolution is the only good example so far, but it's still nowhere near where the genre needs to be. The F2P DOA5 coming soon is another small step.
I want to see Tekken, DOA, Street Fighter and MK, reach the same heights as LoL and SCII. But to get there, they need free-to-play models, and they need to lower the bar for entry. Street Fighter needs to simplify their L/M/H control schemes (I personally know a lot of SF players who will hate me for saying that), and Tekken needs to tone down the bounds. If the game has a lower entry level, it becomes more inclusive, while still providing a learning curve with a very high top level.
Free-to-play is an equally, if not more important step. Tekken Revolution's model is decent, but hindered by the lack of a proper training/practice mode, and a short roster. The unlockable characters requiring absurd amounts of GP is also extremely frustrating. I'd be happier if they provided more characters at $2 to $4 each, but so far you cannot buy additional characters for Tekken Revolution with real money.
Namco Bandai could also do a lot more to encourage competition and drive the game forward. Sanctioned tournaments over PSN would be a good idea; extending Revolution to other platforms would be even better.
Expanding the World Tekken Federation to support Revolution would also be nice. And if Sony would stop requiring me to deposit minimum AU$10 when I want to purchase one thing at $2.95, that would also be a vast improvement.
Player behavior is and has never been exclusively a problem for the fighting game genre, nor is it just an esports problem. Most professional sports employ tough regulations on player behavior, and the media plays a big part too. If you are a professional footballer and you get an assault charge, it could end your career or at the very least cost you a lot of fans and money. (depending on which country you are in, I suppose).
Verbally abusing a player, a referee, or a crowd member at an NRL game, for example, is likely to result in a suspension, a fine, and a lot of negative media exposure. Even off-the-field behavior is taken into account. The NRL has strict rules about how their players act wherever they are, because when players are getting themselves in to trouble and creating negative attention, it looks for bad for them, for their team, for their fans, AND the sport. There's a lot that esports organizers can learn from that.
I'd also like to see some proper kind of independent, industry-funded, international organization (think something along the lines of the IOC, or FIFA) that is inclusive of all popular games, to set regulations on player behavior and ethics, as well as safety standards for events, and to represent esports globally. Not to actually manage events or run leagues, but to create standards and ethics for organizers to follow.
The only other complaint I have is the player names. I'd rather see more players use their own. A lot of the top LoL and SCII players are known by nicknames, which are, more often than not, simply embarrassing.
TL:DR, Blah, Tekken Revolution is pretty sweet, blah blah, esports ethics and player behavior needs regulation.
It's all in the people that make it to the top. Many of the westerners are the ones that are doing the trash talking. but as more humble players make it tot he top and don't encourage that stuff. The community will change as a whole. But as for being accepting as others? They'll respect anyone that's got the skills.
Reputation means 0 Too the FGC. They sell on pure skill alone, and no amount of PC BS could ever silence that.
I didn't know the FGC had any more or less of a bad reputation in comparison to all the other competitive gaming scenes out there. In general, tempers flair in ALL online games.
How do you play LoL? 123412341234123412341234, bitch at your teammates for being useless and not doing what you want, then some more1234123412341234. Never mind the fact that LoL is Pay2Win and you never have to look at the ppl your playing against. Oh, and Mike Ross is not a professional gamer.
Fighting games are very fast and complicated. There is a lot there you can't see when watching a tournament.
@Rafiky77 I don't think any game is best watched, over played.
@hassanem They think that's bad? Should've seen me after I had a 0/14 Ryze in my ranked team. They said I'm out of control... They said I needed to be contained... I showed them... I showed them ALL!!!!! XD XD XD
@YukoAsho Aris is the best.
@chipwithdip i think there was 1 kof online wasnt that free .. im not sure tho =p
@sagejonathan Problem is that it ISN'T perfect. The biggest issue is that they don't get any real pay. Not enough to sustain themselves on what the FGC provides. Other competitive communities make a good deal of dough. The FGC makes the least, even though it's been around for an extensive amount of time.
The FGC needs $$. Quickly. There needs to be something to get new players in as the current ones become older, cause eventually they'll retire from age or become employed and not have time to play anymore.
"Reality is. If you're not a pro fighting gamer, or have the dedication to become one? Then accept the fact you're not! Move on. And you'll enjoy it much more."
That's your reality flash game player and I'm proud of you for accepting your lack of talent and limitations (these exceed dedication by a mile) and heeding your own advice as a nobody.
@RSM-HQ great comment
@RSM-HQ Genius is an overstatement. God knows how many hours pros spent in front of a TV practicing the same combo over and over. That's probably why these pros think fighting tournaments isn't mainstream since casual players get chewed out in the first round and leave only the obsessed of the obsessed to fight it out.
@KuchikiSentou for the people playing in the FGC and winning tournaments im sure they would like to get paid real esports money and not the pennies they are getting compared to LoL SC2 and Dota2
@GSGuy321 Simplify the control scheme?! Hell no. Each game has it's own unique button scheme for a reason and simplifying it would destroy the complexity that makes them special.
@GSGuy321 no! go play smash brothers
@Lhomity I have to disagree with simplifying the games. That's the whole point of a good fighting game the complexity is what makes it fun to play and maybe even more important watch. Also SF is already in a pretty good spot learning curve wise. Its very easy to start playing a game like SF but extremely hard to master which is how it should be. If anybody can do it then why bother? Games with no depth are no fun to spectate which is a huge component of why SC2 and lol are so successful as esports.
As for the free 2 play thing sure why not but it has to have an actual f2p model which most f2p games don't. Look at lol you can enjoy that game in all its glory without spending a single dime. Yeah there's some grinding to get the champs you want but its a decent not never ending slave grind and its not p2w. Everone has access to the same runes, masteries and items in game. Look at dota 2 which makes everything free from the jump. Thats f2p and a fighting game would most likely need to go the dota 2 route to be successful because fighting game with characters locked away behind a pay wall would turn most people away. The part where they make their money needs to be purely on cosmetic items.
Think of it this way if i have to spend $60 or more of my real money to get the full roster why not just buy a full game and get everything included. Take tekken tag 2 for example. There's a boat load of characters in it I'm not even sure of he full count. Say each one in a f2p model costs $5 buks which is a typical dlc rate for fighters these days. 50 * 5 = 250 which would be absurd right when i can get TTT2 for like $30 now. So f2p would help if one of these game companies would actually be willing to do real f2p but i doubt it because they dont have the balls quite frankly.
Lastly, id just like to point out tekken revolution as a prime example of how not to do it.only 14 characters for tekken lmao. Then there are RPG aspects! WTF that's a huge no no for fighting games. Players need to be on an even playing field and that effectively makes it pay2win. Also you heave to earn / buy or wait for tokens to play online. DOTA2, LOL, TF2 let me play online as much as i want for free. They also screwed with some of the mechanics in a bad way. If this is the way f2p fighters are going then its not gonna help one bit.
@Lhomity Mike* Ross' a pretty cool, he knows what he is talking about. As for your complain (and probably everyone else who hates fighters) about the complexity of the genre... Those variation of attacks and long combos are strictly optional. Not everyone can pull off those difficult combos, not even the top players. Options are there to make the game unpredictable, thus making you think constantly. Strategies and techniques are essential to a fighting game, how much you can master it is really up to you.
I am not sure how anyone can fix the problem with player attitude though. But I realize players can get pretty personal when playing fighters online. Unlike other genre where you could be playing against multiple people at the same time, you are only fighting the other guy 1 on 1 and most of the time, you can recognized that person by the character he picks and the habits he uses. It's not like a shooter where the next guy is exactly a clone of the other, it's much more forgettable being one upped by the others. And this is where the size of the community comes into play, where the small AND dedicated group of people can actually hurt the genre.
The absolute biggest problem with the genre is definitely the size of the community. What happens when someone new to a fighting game goes online only to find themselves getting beat up by more experienced players? They quit and never come back. Being able to fight with players of similar skill is much more enjoyable.
Making fighters free to play and matching up players with similar class may possibly fix the genre.
@Busta its really lame watching Fchamp and Noel Brown pop off and detour sponsors from the community.
@Poinciana there's some grey area in there.
@AlwaysHumored Ha! "Flash game player" xD I'd love to hear what you based that on?..
My advice is a positive one. For people intimidated by these games to enjoy a good fighter without being an expert. Whether I'm a somebody 'I'm guessing in the fighting game genre scene?' or a nobody means little.
Be a good little fail n' troll some place else. Only people you humour is everyone around you xP
@00LiteYear You misunderstand the purpose of my comment.
You don't need to be tournament level to enjoy a fighting game, so long as you embrace what dedication you give :)
I work two jobs and enjoy my fighters. I'm not casual, but not really a pro either. I learn enough to enjoy it online regardless of the match setup.
Should platforming fans consider Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive) unfair, that they'll never match a Guinness world record level of clear time? I don't think so..
I don't see gaming as a sport either. But getting good, really good, requires dedication. Not something everyone can be bothered with.
I don't think fighters should mechanically suffer because mainstream don't feel like putting the time to learn is all ;)
@asmatsis @KuchikiSentou There are things that you have to sacrifice for more money. I don't know how the scene will be if these sacrifices are made. All I can say is that I love the scene the way it is. The players are happy just to win and compete and I see their efforts every time I watch them play. I see the passion and reaction of the fans who watch live. That is enough for me. The players like it, the fans like it. What is there to be envious of?
I've seen what the LoL events are like, and it just smacks of... I struggle to find the words... all I know is I don't want the FGC to be anything like that. Better to have your dignity and passion than to sacrifice that for financial gain.
@hoplayletsplay Fighting games will not evolve with simplified game play. They will only truly evolve with the advent of a highly accessible and intuitive control scheme.
@stan_hg @RSM-HQ For one thing, actual sports don't require a TV to stare at. Second, sports like basketball or soccer require teams that handpick players, so not just anyone can compete in a tournament. Third, video games are a hobby to most people with working jobs, so that limits the amount of capable Fighters to players who don't work.
Mainstream wise, watching people do combos isn't nearly as exciting as hearing about the super bowl, therefore the Pros are just a hardcore minority and the FGC is a general minority that plays casually, or plays so much but doesn't care about publicity, thus showing less interest.