Reality Check - Could we clone Big Boss? The Science of Metal Gear Solid

Cam puts his biology degree to use as he investigates the cloning of Big Boss and Metal Gear's Les Enfant Terrible project.

Discussion

93 comments
Wensea10
Wensea10

Honestly, I would not be surprised.

kevindm215
kevindm215

I want to see a mammoth in my life, that would be awesome!

solid_snake_48
solid_snake_48

Forget cloning Big Boss.  What about cloning kojima?  He always says he wants to hand over the reins of metal gear, but nobody on his staff seems up to the task, and he always has to go back to it and be the executive producer. 

PlatinumPaladin
PlatinumPaladin

That was a great episode, Cam. Very informative indeed.

The good thing about Metal Gear is that if you're ever stuck for ideas on what to do shows about, you could probably quite happily dine off MG for at least three months.

mbchfdh2
mbchfdh2

Cam, I love you dude, but please learn how to say "nuclear". It's breaking my heart…



Step 1). say "new"


Step 2). say "clear"


Step 3). say "new-clear"



Winner.


cantante80
cantante80

Another great episode Cam. Props on discussion of mitochondrial DNA. Two interesting thoughts about the whole cloning issue. One is that the mentioned mitochondrial DNA potentially has recognized effects on an individual, including a relatively new recognized disorder of mitochondrial myopathy (likely a group of disorders) which is still poorly understood, and thankfully rare. As a pediatrician in the States I'm seeing more of these kids as awareness increases and look forward to better understanding of the issue. Another issue is looking at the nature of identical twins-starting with identical DNA but then having spontaneous mutations occur during development, the role of other early developmental events whether environmental (lack of oxygen/nutrients in utero), or random malfunction of DNA replication/translation, and as you mentioned, the role of the environment has in nurturing the individual. Very interesting and complicated question. Keep it up man.

GrayFlare
GrayFlare

Also Snake's premature aging wasn't a side effect of his cloning, it was done on purpose by the scientists who created him.

GrayFlare
GrayFlare

Les Enfants Terrible actually made three clones: Solid/Liquid/Solidus

Ghost_Thumbs
Ghost_Thumbs

Love the episode Cam. I am a Jedi and eternal, just waiting for science to catch up to my clone wars.

rhenom
rhenom

So what if the donor egg was from Big Boss' actual mother? That might be weird, but makes you wonder if it would fix the whole mitochondrial dna part.

reza_razor
reza_razor

Its wonderfull to see these great ideas in this game series and how they came up with them a long time ago ... YOU kojima san !!!

GameYakuza
GameYakuza

the boys from brazil is a good movie on cloning.

GameYakuza
GameYakuza

Les enfants terribles. It's plural.

garysingh34
garysingh34

I mean if its been done animals its clearly possible on humans, but there are loads of ethical / legal issues surrounding this topic.

garysingh34
garysingh34

HI Cam, great show. I wondered whether  you could answer this - Liquid hated Solid in MGS1 for being given the dominant genes whilst He (Liquid) received all the recessive genes. Is that possible when making identical clones? How can you distinguish dominant and recessive genes?

Frencho9
Frencho9

I've got a haunch that human cloning has been attempted and is being attempted at the moment. 


We're sentient animals after all, if you can clone animals you can clone humans. Pretty sure there are human clones out there, but maybe not healthy ones. It's just not widespread information due to ethical issues and governments or scientist keep it secret.

TERMINATOR-SSD
TERMINATOR-SSD

meh forget human cloning. Lets just clone cows all the time. Then we all can have endless CLONED BEEF, mmmmmm beeeeeeeeef

BaDMantra
BaDMantra

Great show as always,  on a separate note please convince Johnny to stay on Feedbackula and also is there a specific reason to have the light in the background moving while you are talking?

blackwingzero
blackwingzero

If anything it makes the Metal Gear science of the game lore sound even more plausible and even somewhat grounded in reality as far as liquid and solid snake being clones go. Great episode cam.

GunEye
GunEye

Also btw -  I think the whole idea of cloning Big Boss is such a unique part of the Metal Gear plot and lore: the whole notion is ridiculous, even somewhat ignorant. But if I recall correctly it was Zero who initiated it - he loved and admired Big Boss so much, that when Big Boss left him, he had to make another "Naked Snake".

The whole idea of cloning him to make perfect soldiers - while somewhat possible - is still pretty naïve, absurd and desperate:

Big Boss had no super powers, nor perfect DNA - he was a great soldier because of the man he was. Because of the great person he was. There was nothing out of the ordinary in him. You can't clone that.

Just like that there is nothing extraordinary about Solid or Liquid.

People are special for who they are, what they become and their principles and beliefs.


Still.... the attempt is ambitious...

GunEye
GunEye

Hey Cam I loved the show. I think cloning humans, while being scary as hell and somewhat un-ethical is very possible. Who knows - we might have clones walking among us (or at least in the nursery).


Anyway Cam - I got a question - you forgot to specify one important thing: Why does cloning fails? why do we estimate that human cloning will fail frequently? Why did animal clones simply died off or age rapidly? and how is it that different from artificial born creatures? (I know the basic differences but still).

So human cell cloning have failed many times, and animals have died off early in life - but why? If our scientific process was precise and successful: is it the human body that self-destruct in order to prevent this "deformity" from happening?

Is it nature itself that fights off against these anomalies? I wonder..

Halloll
Halloll

Bonus comment: both Solid and Liquid are not identical twins nor identical clones of Big Boss, their DNA was altered to make them even better at soldiering than Big Boss, or at least Solid was. their DNA also had an accelerated aging gene to ensure they won't live long as a fail safe. the egg donor for Solid was a Japanese lap assistant thus Snake have Japanese mitochondria DNA.

faizanhd
faizanhd

Snake was designed to age faster though. Sort of like an obsolescence scheme.

obsequies
obsequies

those walkers that sound like cows lol. Metal gear solid 4 was great lol

Mrod1212
Mrod1212

Why is it all black past 6 minutes? Anyways, entertaining as always.

PrpleTrtleBuBum
PrpleTrtleBuBum

@ladies_man_xxx Me, my family, friends or pets aren't extra. You are...

That's what we all think. No one wants to backpedal for some numbers on the other side of the world

PlatinumPaladin
PlatinumPaladin

@garysingh34  I've always thought that dominant and recessive were bad terms. They make sense scientifically as the dominant will always override the effects of a recessive counterpart, but a dominant gene doesn't necessarily bring with it a superior result.

On a slightly separate note, just believing he was a product of recessive genes may have been a contributing environmental factor for Liquid not being quite the super-soldier that Solid was, even though he was still pretty shit-hot. 

jonny_dutch
jonny_dutch

@garysingh34  Thats not really a thing, at least not in normal cloning. It also wouldn't make one necessarily better than the other, dominant genes are not superior to recessive genes. I remember Liquid believed he was the inferior clone, but I'm not sure he associated that with recessive genes.

West123
West123

@garysingh34  DNA is a road map to every aspect of what you are and who you are...so if you can map DNA you can say that this will gene will cause him to be a murder and so on..but DNA is huge and scientist still need to figure out what gene does what 

West123
West123

@Frencho9  lol like governments can keep secrets!! you forget that most country's entire administration only last 8 years then new people get in...every secret that finds its way out just like the atom bomb it didnt take long before India and Pakistan had them...i wonder who told them lol

jonny_dutch
jonny_dutch

@GunEye  Big Boss does have some "superpowers" though, it's well cataloged that he has a genius level IQ and was the only person in an entire base with the constitution to survive intense radiation poisoning. Most of his skills come from training with the Boss, but his MG Database files do state that he's pretty extraordinary by nature.

West123
West123

@GunEye  "Big Boss had no super powers, nor perfect DNA - he was a great soldier because of the man he was. Because of the great person he was"


big boss is a monster not a hero he tried to burn the world and use force to defeat a single mans idea...thats madness...on the other hand soild snake never wanted to be a hero he just did what had to be done and never sort to implement his own ideals into the world like the monster that is big boss 

West123
West123

@Halloll  yes sir soldus is a 100% match and also an ex president of the USA lol that part i never understood 

xsonicchaos
xsonicchaos

@kitmeep  

It seems that you're in the minority, and speaking for other isn't helping your cause. You'd be amazed to know how many gamers are genuinely interested by science. I, for example, have a master degree in physics. Try watching Vsauce, it might spark some curiosity in you.

GameYakuza
GameYakuza

@West123 @garysingh34The environment is another variable on how the genes express themselves. some identical twins don't look like each other, there are even genetic defects that only appear in some carriers, for reasons not fully known.

Frencho9
Frencho9

@West123 @Frencho9  Other Nations knew the USA had the atomic bomb because it dropped two of them on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... Not because they wanted to hide it. Plus it took nearly 50 years for India and Pakistan to get their own nukes (First test in 1994 and 1996 for pakistan). Plus there no way for every administration to know everything thats going on, also not everyone has the clearance. You really think Obama knows everything DARPA is doing? And what about non democratic states that stay in power for decades. Every government has secrets, and the common citizen like you and I will never know them. Read your comments before posting, this one really did not make any sense.


As for cloning, unlike nuclear weapons, governments don't drop them on cities to say hey look what we got, admire the freaking massive nuclear mushroom. Could you really recognize a clone on the street from any other human, or even a natural twin?


Human cloning is easy to keep secret unlike weapon arsenals, they really don't stand out.


Humm, maybe there's some hidden knowledge about human cloning on the darknet, might be worth the risk.


Cheers.

Halloll
Halloll

@West123 @HallollSolidus is a younger clone than Solid and Liquid that was made later by the Patriots, he didn't receive any alterations to his DNA but the Patriots did add the accelerated aging gene and fast tracked him to the oval office.

faizanhd
faizanhd

@Kinguard73

It was later revealed by Naomi that FOXDIE had nothing to do with it.

Listen to Big Boss' explaination at the end of MGS 4

jonny_dutch
jonny_dutch

@West123 @Halloll  I also found it a strange part of the lore that he was an ex-president after he was a president. 
Also tentacles.

West123
West123

@Halloll  ya i know i was just saying hes 100% clone of big boss...but still its a strange part in the lore that he was a president and later an ex-president with tentacles  

xsonicchaos
xsonicchaos

@kitmeep

Well, it is rather subjective. To be honest, I really think this episode (and you probably meant episode instead of "show") is the most insightful and prepared. But that's just me. But what bothers me to come here and respond is that you like to speak in the name of everyone in this community. Who are you, anyway? Saying stuff like "this is junk nobody cares about" and "I has (?) no interest in this show" when you're kinda the only one disliking "THIS show"? And?... You speak your mind, and that's cool, but what do you want? More episodes on frame rates and resolution?

West123
West123

@kitmeep @xsonicchaos  so you dont care about cloning you care about frame rates?? so you would rather see the show only touch on game specific stuff? like hardware and software and so on?


Reality check - is it possible to run across a wall with a jet pack on you back


Reality check- it is possible to get better resolution if you buy a better graphic card


hmmm i dont know kitmeep seems like they need a new show then because this is about the science portrayed in games not the science we have currently...hence the name lol