Review

EVE Online Review

  • Game release: May 6, 2003
  • Reviewed: November 26, 2013
  • PC

Space-time continuum.

by

Tranquility. I've always puzzled at the name of EVE Online's single server. It's an ironic moniker to lend to a world where hundreds of thousands of players jockey for resources, scheme, spy, and blow each other up. On that one server, wars wage in perpetuity. Scammers ply their trade outside crowded space stations. Fortunes are made and lost amid the bustle of a full-fledged economy. None of it feels particularly tranquil.

And yet, Carl Sagan once noted that from space, Earth--for all its chaos--is nothing but a pale blue dot. So it goes with EVE: step far enough back from CCP's sci-fi massively multiplayer online game, and a picture of tranquility begins to emerge. Ten years of steady growth. The recent release of a 20th free expansion, Rubicon. Throughout all, consistency of vision, commitment, and support. It's no small achievement in the winter of the massively multiplayer online role-playing game, when young games are born, live, and die, all in World of Warcraft's shadow. In the face of such competition, EVE's languid pace would seem a detriment, and yet, like the universe, EVE is ever expanding outward.

EVE cultivates an appreciation for scales, vectors, and inertia, because it makes their mastery a matter of life and death. The game supports a healthy variety of pursuits, including nonviolent options like building, trading, or mining, but at some point almost all players must hazard a jaunt around EVE's tangled network of interconnected solar systems. Each system is a room of sorts connected by stargates that act as metaphorical doorways. They're spacious chambers, big enough to fit planets, asteroid belts, and space stations with a few trillion miles to spare, but danger always has a way of finding you in EVE. If you're lucky, it'll only come in the form of pirates or warring fleets that open fire on sight. If you're unlucky, it'll be a scammer, spy, or saboteur playing EVE's tacitly sanctioned metagame against you.

Conflict runs tangential to even the most pacifistic careers in EVE. After all, it's easier to maintain a lively spaceship market if players are always blowing each other up. But when things come to blows, it's actually a tidy affair. Ships can be piloted by clicking about in space, but most actions in EVE hinge on more mechanical commands like "maintain distance" or "warp to". It's a math-oriented system that hinges on numbers like distance, radii, and acceleration. Once the enemy has been targeted and the keys for weapons have been pressed, battles ebb and flow according to who can dictate range as their ships circle. Large-scale battles are as chaotic and complex as any sci-fi war scene, and skirmishes are thrillingly staccato. Victory in either is less a product of reflex than of strategy. The prelude to war--proper equipment, communication, teammwork, and patience--is usually the deciding factor. As often as a good fight seems to find the unwilling in EVE, it can prove elusive for those seeking it out. For every minute of battle or plunder, there are hours spent as prey eludes capture, as fleets circle and dance to the reports of their forward scouts.

Almost every player is an annalist of some sort, contributing anecdotes on forums, reporting from battle lines, issuing propaganda, or mapping political boundaries.

It takes some acclimating, but EVE's interface is packed with functionality.

Indeed, EVE's pace is glacial indeed...right until it isn't. A dominant alliance might hold a third of the world in an iron grip for ages, until a spot of corporate espionage dispels it into the digital ether overnight. An interstellar bank could compound every investment it's entrusted with for years, until it suddenly absconds with billions. The universe's first Titan-class ubership may be a world-beater, until it's destroyed because the pilot chooses an inopportune moment to log off. They're the kinds of stories that make headlines outside of gaming circles, the kind that EVE is uniquely equipped to tell. Whether you're speaking to the allure of exploring EVE's vast universe, the machinations of its political scene, or even the prospects of the game's next expansion, that capacity for upheaval is a draw unto itself.

What's refreshing about EVE is how much of that change is user-driven. Player characters in the game are canonically immortal, their consciousness tied to clones that are awakened whenever they find themselves on the wrong end of the metaphorical photon torpedo. So-called pod pilots are the movers and shakers of the EVE universe, and enjoy a privileged position as mercenary demigods (consider for a moment the level of desperation that would drive a non-player character to enlist under a commander who, by definition, never goes down with the ship, and you'll begin to grasp the morbidity of EVE's lore). What gets moved or shaken is a matter of taste. It might mean battle, as a soldier or pirate. It might mean cleaning up after said battles, and pawning the salvage. Or it might mean moving goods from one place to another, and shaking whenever outlaws start eyeing your loot. Each endeavor can be pursued in the name of EVE's four hawkish NPC empires, a smattering of lesser powers, or the great host of player corporations.

Picking what banner to fly is always an important decision in an MMORPG, but in EVE, the decision can make or break the experience entirely. Should you have no allies, the vast reaches of space can be brutally lonely and unforgiving. Sure, there are hundreds of space stations to rest in, nominal communities strewn about the network of solar systems that dot EVE's pointillistic map. But though the game now allows you to walk the interiors of these structures, there's little humanity to be found inside. NPCs are still just portraits in the interface that proffer textual missions. Other players are just smaller portraits in your chat feed. The resultant sense of disembodiment impinges on every interaction in EVE, and it helps to explain the popularity of extra-game forums and meet-ups. Absent a few friendly faces, it's just not that easy to make regions with names like The Bleak Lands or Stain feel like home. Go figure.

Forgot to bring any guns to this fight. Guess how that went.
The ability to step outside your ship is a welcome addition, if a bit aimless.

Actually, Stain seems like Shangri-la compared to 0FZ-2H. That's the naming convention of zero-security systems, which fall outside the protection of NPC guards, and where EVE's player alliances battle for control of the game's open territories. Zero security also sees CCP's most brilliant and nefarious contribution to player-versus-player gameplay: regions, and the distribution of resources therein, are asymmetrical. Zero-sec space tempts with its more lucrative opportunities, but making the trip means leaving the safety of the empires. Inequalities exist among the lawless regions, too. The imbalance creates further incentives for players to band together, if only for the express purpose of evicting those ahead of them at the table.

Asymmetry must be in CCP's mission statement somewhere. It's certainly visible in the designs of EVE's spaceships: intricate, inventive crafts that range in scale from small yacht to small state. Asymmetry colors the use of those ships as weapons, too. At first blush, the more expensive, upper-echelon crafts seem overpowered. That perception holds true, until you develop an appreciation for asymmetrical warfare. There are no restrictions--mechanical or moral--on the size of fleets corporations can bring to the field, and with enough cheap frigates and cruisers, most foes can be felled. Barring that, there's always sabotage, as legitimate a tactic in EVE as any.

Big, expensive ships are also big, expensive targets, either for rival corporations or pirates that operate on the fringes of high-security space. Being blown up might not mean as much if you just wake up in a distant clone vat, but it can take a serious toll on your supply of ISK, EVE's currency. Ships that get destroyed are gone for good, along with all the expensive and rare equipment they've been kitted out with. That can include PLEX, an in-game item that represents real playing time in EVE (and a viable alternative to the game's $9.99 a month cost for dedicated players), meaning some losses can hurt a player's real wallet, too. Like most aspects of EVE, death is harsh and unforgiving, but the risks magnify the highs and lows in kind. A venture into the borderlands is a tense, calculated gamble, where every jump to a new system might expose you to predation.

Day traders, rejoice.

Truth be told, it ought to be even riskier. To get a feel for what dangers lie in wait in the system you occupy, you need only glance at your local chat channel. Every present player is listed therein, from the most genteel miner to the scurviest pirate. After a decade of patches and fixes, it's strange that local chat has managed to avoid the axe. It has always felt like a temporary solution that has taken root, an anachronism so entangled in the rest of EVE's systems that it has become difficult to excise. The illusion that you're an interstellar explorer, or that there are unknown dangers around every corner, breaks a bit when every lowlife in the solar system is your Facebook friend.

Perhaps that's just CCP's vision of the future, some kind of acerbic commentary on our subservience to the computer. Considering the rest of EVE's interface, though, that's unlikely. The game, oft-labeled "spreadsheets in space," is still as impenetrable as ever, a technophile's fever dream of 3D overlays, extension lines, charts, and impossibly tiny fonts. It's clean and eminently customizable, and it leaves a lot of room for breathtaking views of nebulae and stars, but even 10 years in, I'm still unsure about some of its more esoteric functions. Yet with some practice, it's undeniably useful, even more so now that CCP has made improvements to wayfinding and interaction.

Player characters in the game are canonically immortal, their consciousness tied to clones that are awakened whenever they find themselves on the wrong end of the metaphorical photon torpedo.

All that considered, it's probably unsurprising that EVE seems to attract a, let's say, bookish sort of clientele. Almost every player is an annalist of some sort, contributing anecdotes on forums, reporting from battle lines, issuing propaganda, or mapping political boundaries. It all contributes to one of the most exhaustive and fascinating repositories of lore to be found in gaming, one that's created by developer and player alike. Heck, the game's most anarchic alliance--the aptly named Goonswarm--is also home to its most ardent archivists, members who log the minutiae of nearly every battle and political play. Even the most disengaged players sign their marks in EVE's ledgers, with purchase histories and entries on the "killed by" reports automatically generated when they die.

I've been on the wrong end of a fair number of those reports over the years. I remember the first time I quit EVE, so many expansions ago, before the arrival of opt-in high-security warfare that helped to fill the gaps between pirate raids and alliance battles. I was bored: in the wrong corporation, in the wrong part of space, and growing frustrated and restless. Unable to rouse a raiding party, I took my best ship and went looking for trouble alone. I found it in the form of two vigilantes. They locked me down and laid siege to my ship, whittling away my defenses while my guns struggled to track their speedier crafts. I pulled out every trick in my bag. I feinted, scrapped, and stalled desperately, but I was doomed.

It took a full hour and a half, but my vessel eventually succumbed. As klaxons blared and the hull of my prized ship rocked with the impact of missiles, I scrolled my mousewheel and zoomed out--zoomed out until it was just a pale dot, and tried not to think about all the ISK I'd just lost.

I was back within the month.

The Good
An ever-evolving, ever-expanding world that improves like clockwork
Complex combat and political systems that avoid symmetry, but are still fair
Balanced risk-versus-reward systems and harsh penalties create tension
Comprehensive player tools for defining your little corner of the universe
Attractive graphics and a cohesive aesthetic vision across art, music, and interface
The Bad
Steep learning curve and many esoteric features
Efforts to humanize the universe fall short
8
Great
About GameSpot's Reviews

About the Author

/ Staff

Nick Capozzoli has been a pirate, a carebear, a soldier, a scavenger, a miner, and a wanderer in the EVE universe since 2005. For this review, he leveraged those experiences and a brief refresher stint.

Other Takes on EVE Online

Discussion

197 comments
tar1901
tar1901

The game is as exciting as watching paint dry. This hole space combat is actually more of a Excel sheet combat because you don't fly your ship. You give orders like attack the 3rd line in the table, fly from line 2 to line 4. You don't shoot at anyone, you just look for attack orders in some menus like you look for copy and special paste in the Word menu. 


It even has a sim city minigame now. Except all building are cicles or some planet and of course more Excel pages.


Then you want to do something new and  realize you need 4 months of "Training". Training is something like the apointment calendar. From 3 feb to 9 feb you train this skill, from 9 to 17 feb the next skill and so on.


You can fly a battleship in 3 days. Small correction, you can take it out of hangar, correction again, you order it to get out, you don't actually fly it. And then you need 6 months of skill training to actually fight with that ship. Want to try another battleship? Another 6 months. Want to fly the biggest ship? 3-4 years....

VV1LL14M
VV1LL14M

Message me for a Free Extended 21 Day Trial for Eve Online. As a subsciber I can provide them without limit.

Micropixel
Micropixel

EVE is an amazing game. This is the one game I can never ever stop playing. It always pulls me right back. I'm happy to see the review was updated (since the game has come a very long way in 10 years).

0zen
0zen

 About time they updated the 2004 review, which was extremely negative on the whole and mostly irrelevant considering the state of the game now.

CiTizenMaSSaKre
CiTizenMaSSaKre

Wait, is this a new EvE or something? Sorry I just do not play this game, I was kind of interested but I just forgot about it. Did they release a new game otherwise I dont understand how this can get reviewed now after like 10 years.

richardfitzinya
richardfitzinya

man there are some devout Eve players out there....i'd love to figure out what this is all about one of htese days.  I've got too many games in action as it stands and my wife is about to leave me too so I dont have a whole lot of time on me hands ya!

flexy456
flexy456

I am not a fan of over-simplified games, this is also one reason we quit WoW after many years playing when it became too over-simplified. In theory, the idea of a "complex" space sim is alluring. EVE is a game which I heard about and read about for a decade now and I have always toyed with the idea of at least giving it a shot. (Yes, I am one of those guys who played "Elite" back on the C64 which kind-of gave me an epiphany that space sims are probably amongst the coolest game genre for me. Sadly, most of them are badly realized).


I read so many reviews about EVE and some things are mentioned repeatedly and I must admit those are a huge turn-off. A "spreadsheet" game is often mentioned, the slow peace how your skills grow "in real time" (say: months, years)...how you will never be able to "beat" those people who play the game for 10 years already...the extremely steep difficulty to learn the game and the fact that you "need" to join a guild/corp to get somewhere in the game. However, the fact that there are NO linear "quests" and it's basically a sandbox based game around PvP is actually appealing to me. I am still on the fence. It's just that the many negative reviews turn me off, and I am also talking about experiences of people on "nerd" hardware forums etc. who consider the game..well..simply too complex and too nerdy.


Maybe your review motivated me to take a second look at it. I still have high hopes for Star Citizen and "Elite Dangerous" tho..I really hope that either of those (or both) will finally bring a worthy game to this otherwise very cool and interesting genre. As said I don't mind complexity but playing a "spreadsheet game" just doesn't sound too appealing...


mariocerame
mariocerame

This doesn't feel like a review of a game so much as a colorful tribute or memoir.  Glancing at the comments, this write-up seems to be more accessible to those who have played the game, which I have not.

api_phoenix
api_phoenix

I would say that gamespot is some what misguided if they have not taken into account the developers of the game who sit behind the game. They may have designed a fantastic game, but ccp are still liars and thieves when it comes to the in-game players, and the fact that they break their own rules, and make players pay for it. Oddly enough, i am rather surprised at how many swallow the pathetic lies from CCP Games. When so many of you know that there is consistent evidence of CCP being involved with RMT vendors, and Blink and more coming to light now. Why would you continue to support CCP? They are nothing but common thieves. They will break their own rules, and yet if you do one small thing wrong, they make you pay dearly for it, even if you did a legit in-game job. CCP cannot be trusted no matter what. CCP DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU, they DO NOT have the players/capsuleers best interest at heart. As long as all the money, and all money is made by them, and you continue to pay them, you are safe. Now you would say, but they designed the game, is that not how it should work. I would say yes, however, They want to slow you down enormously to prevent you from making too much in-game currency, and they are themselves RMT traders. They spout rules about RMT trading, yet they are involved with vendors and make money from those vendors in quite large amounts, and have been found out, about it. Before hand they were banning account that were supposedly RMT's, yet they were behind the cloaked veil of secrecy supporting vendors, but specific vendors. They are RMT themselves. How can they spout rules about banning accounts due to known RMT trading, and yet they themselves not only supported it by making money off it, but kept it from the Eve Online community and banned any account they deemed had been involved in RMT when they themselves were part of it all and secretly backed it to make more money. CCP are nothing more than common thieves stealing players/capsuleers in-game currency to feed their own ego and hide that own bad mistakes and not repay those characters back the in-game currency they stole, after lying to the community via their rules for a start.

How can we as the people that play the game and pay for it, allow CCP to get away with this kind of attitude. This also means that CCP's secretly supporting RMT has been a big part of the in-game market trends. Therefore their rules and lies they spout about the capsuleers being the ones that control the market has all been lies as they has a hand in it all the time.

Do we continue to allow CCP to interfere, and DO we allow ccp to get away with consistently banning accounts, with no solid evidence, and also do we allow them to continually lie to us and take us for idiots? We all know they have been in bed with the largest alliance in Eve Online for some time. There is no hiding that either.

Arcturuss
Arcturuss

There is no MMO i've played for more than a month, ever.

Other than Eve online.  Going on four years now, never taking more than 1-2 month breaks.  (BTW people, if you think you've tried the game, and you've only ever lived in high sec, you havn't really tried the game)

sukee_tsayah
sukee_tsayah

Well written review! I'd like to add some content for those of you looking into the game.

Here's evidence of what Nick meant by "There are no restrictions--mechanical or moral--on the size of fleets corporations can bring to the field, and with enough cheap frigates and cruisers, most foes can be felled." : http://www.join-figl.info/t1-cruisers-vs-thanatos/

In that particular occasion we killed a Thanatos-class Carrier (worth billions of isk) with nothing more than 20 tech 1 Cruisers (each worth less than 10 million isk). We even had a new pilot who had been playing the game for less than 24 hours participate in that kill; he was flying a tech 1 frigate worth less than 3 million isk. In this game, with enough coordination, even the greatest giants can be killed by a bunch of midgets. 

Here is a different kind of experience: http://www.join-figl.info/logi-fun-in-pe-figl-sov/

In that occasion we were engaged in large scale battle for Sovereignty of a null sec system. The fight included over 250 pilots on each side. The footage you see is that of a Logistic pilot (in a Guardian-class Logistic Cruiser) who is in charge of repairing and keeping alive the damage dealing ships in our fleet (in this case Armageddon and Dominix class Battleships) long enough for them to kill the pilots on the other side. As you can see, damage is applied all over the place and keeps a Logistic pilot's heart pumping non-stop throughout the battle. If the Support ships don't do their job, the big bad Battleships can't do theirs. This is part of the beauty of this game. Teamwork or bust. 

Again, great review. Awesome work Nick!

kargion
kargion

Hands down EvE is one of the best MMO/Sandbox game's i have ever played.  That being said it sucks your life away lol

zfunk007
zfunk007

Glad to see EVE finally got a fair review from this site. I played this game from 2003-2005 and had a wonderful time. Haven't been back in years (mainly because I just don't have time for MMO's anymore like I did in college) but it's a great game that sounds like it's gotten even better with age.

f4rg0
f4rg0

I've been in the game for around 4 years now and I can say that it's amazing so far. As all games, it had it's ups and downs but once you beat it's learning curve, that's where the fun begins. It definately IS NOT for everyone, this is why its audience is small compared to other games but that's something that makes it even more unique.

I saw some people mentioned that skills train in real time and not the typical earning XP as you play, even EvE players do hate that but if you look at it from a different perspective you'll see that the reason it goes like that is because CCP is trying to immerse you in the game, make you feel that you live the experience as if you were there at all times. From another perspective of course, CCP did that to keep players playing in the long run. Don't get it wrong, behind the beautiful graphics and a well-written code, there is a business company trying to make profit and I doubt that anyone in here having one doesn't want to maximize their profit or customer number, as well as keeping old customers in it. There is a reason EvE is an award winning MMO that keeps growing 10 years after, that EvE has always been in the Top 10 or Top 5 MMOs out there for a decade now.

Now I also read some bitter comments here so what I have to say is this. Yes, I know, CCP interferes with the game, it's said it helps certain alliances at wars or whatsoever, I find that unprofessional too but it is their game, if it fails one day, we'll be there to witness it. It is something I hate too, so? I keep playing, I choose to. Even if I didn't, I wouldn't go out flaming around with baseless posts. Moreover, to the bitter people flaming and all, if you failed at EvE for whatever reason or simply hate it for whatever reason, there are more mature and smart ways to make your points of view heard or even accepted. After all, it's just a game, out of it we're still the same.

From my, the PVPer's, perspective, it is a game into which choices do have meaning, where mistakes do have impact and losses really really hurt most of the time, you even need to lose certain types of ships several times to understand why you lost so that you won't do it again. I do agree with someone that said CCP hasn't brought any drastic changes to mining and business portions of the game and that they encourage PVP more. I'm sure that in the years to come, New Eden will grow more and there will be more opportunities for whatever profession each one chooses to follow. As for the absence of PVE that someone mentioned, I can only laugh - PVE is one of the main sources of income in the game and there's nothing you can't do with it, really. The more you play - the more you learn - the more you learn the more risk you take - the more risk you take the more income you get. Not only in currency but in personal experience too.

I apologize for the long post. Overall I find the review amazing, great job Nick. Fly safe man o/

P.S: With all the above provided, if the idea of EvE appeals to you, give it a shot. If for any reason you have more doubt than motive, then simply run and stay away from the game.


Cheers, Van Diamond a.k.a F4rg0 a.k.a Aronnas



AjenoMerveilles
AjenoMerveilles

A curious relationship with this game do I have. Four different attempts to start up, four times I have slipped away from it. Last time though I made sure to keep my details written down, so should I ever go back to it I have a lovely fully kitted Noctis/Tempest waiting for me.

As for why I keep slipping away? No idea, really. It is a game that inspires awe and looks utterly gorgeous. Something about it though just seems to leave me a little cold. On two of those occasions I joined up with some other players and it was all good, yet... perhaps it is the learning of skills. I both like and dislike the lack of traditional grinding, but that falls into being a long term RPG player who is used to the old grind. Yet I often find myself willing to pay for 6 months and learning those skills regardless of how little time I actually spend on the game.

It is just a weird relationship I guess. Like an on call prostitute.

Tetranon
Tetranon

I applaud CCP for making a game that's different than just about everything else out there. I can see how it is really compelling for some people.

I have tried it a couple of times now and only lasted a few weeks each time. It feels like work. Imagine an MMO where there are only 3 types of quests - kill X, gather Y, and deliver Z. Now, imagine in that MMO that everywhere in the world looks the same. That's how EVE Online feels to me. Your mileage may vary.

nicolasetespqr
nicolasetespqr

Not a word on how clunky the actual gameplay is or how boring some features (such as mining) are.


I'm glad the game gets some appreciation, I have tried to get into it more than twice... but this review looks more like a poetical appraisal than an actual review.

psycros
psycros

EVE is a poorly coded collection of intentional exploits wrapped in an user-hating interface that makes Metro seem like telepathy.  Its only fit for sociopaths  or gluttons for punishment.  PvE content is almost non-existent and half of it is hopelessly broken.  Scamming and other "metagaming" BS is not only allowed but encouraged by the developers - so long as it doesn't negatively impact themselves or their sycophants, that is.  The developers play the game to win and whistleblowers have exposed their cheating on multiple occasions.  The game is also steadily transitioning to P2W thanks to the addition of PLEX and training boosters for new accounts.  The PVP is non-consensual and the intentional exploits allow endless griefing, even within so-called "safe" space (some would say especially in safe space).  To have any chance of getting ahead you have to subscribe to multiple accounts and learn to dual-box.  The true wonder of EVE Online is that it can survive with just a little over 200,000 active accounts..but then again, its not like the programmers are putting in a lot of overtime when "I was drunk" is a valid excuse for not showing up to work.

Xercodo
Xercodo

@CiTizenMaSSaKre Yeah they been continually updating and working on the same game this entire time.

fzzywarbles
fzzywarbles

@CiTizenMaSSaKre GS has been making up for reviews lost over the years it seems lately. I've seen a few in the past 6 months. They did just release a new expansion in November. They are also releasing a dog fighting game of some sort some time in Q1 or Q2 2014. That game has me excited since it was something used to show off Oculus Rift earlier this year :)

f4rg0
f4rg0

@flexy456 Well, it's not a ''rocket science'' game for sure, however it is really complicated, compared to the games out there at the moment of course. I think it just takes time to learn other than playing all day. If you give it some months, normal play time, you will realize how all the pieces will fall into place in due time and that it's not as complicated as you once thought it would be. I know, I make little sense saying that but that's how I felt after 3 months in the game when I learned how to run missions and play the market on an acceptable level. Then PVP came up and several other things that kept me away from my primary interests and living in non-secure space is my everyday life now. In the first months I wouldn't even jump in low security systems because of my fear of losing my ship. Really though, it's a sandbox, the idea that everything in there runs by players, even the whole unscripted events that occur on each corner make this game unique. Beat it's learning curve and you got it ;)

nick_capozzoli
nick_capozzoli

@mariocerame I'm sorry you didn't find it as accessible! 


As to the style, that's just how I write reviews, I'm afraid.

f4rg0
f4rg0

@api_phoenix Just play the game as it is man, it's a wonderful one. Do your thing without worrying your head about what CCP does within the game, do your thing, whoever does wrong in this life finds it somewhere ahead, 10 times heavier. I wouldn't go in public calling CCP thieves if I were you. Yes, RMTing by their side is unprofessional as well as interfering with the world of New Eden to favor certain alliances but it's up to them. Go with it or leave it. Don't bother, just do YOUR thing. If one day, whatever they might do, makes the game unplayable for you then make your move and claim your rights.

Now as the other guy said, if you were banned at some point for RMTing, I feel no sympathy for you either. Go PVP, do some PVE to gain ISK, have fun in general. Worrying about it won't change a thing, it is their game after all, we're just customers.

sukee_tsayah
sukee_tsayah

@api_phoenix Sounds like you should quit. Or go PVP. Spend less time worrying about RMT, more time actually playing the fantastic game they've developed. No one said CCP is perfect, but if one of your accounts got banned for RMT'ing....I feel no sympathy for you. No one should. 

1hsb
1hsb

@sukee_tsayah Whoever filmed this, can't FRAPS for shit, but apart from that, great post :)


Lotsa love - I-RED

Janpieterzun
Janpieterzun

@xuixien You people sound like you're trying to convert people to this waste of time and productivity. (All games are in truth.) Games like this i have no doubt are amazing, but i find insular communities like this to be full of depressed people and those trying to cope or escape shitty lives.

TheLamaKnows
TheLamaKnows

Absolutely agree. The foundation of loss being real in Eve has completely changed my perception of all games. It's why I can't stand CoD- which is an endless series of pointless battles that have no context and serve no strategic goal. It could be paintball or throwing snowballs and it would matter as much. In Eve, most battles are fought as part of a larger war- involving logistical support, resupply, intelligence analysis of the enemy. There is depth to PvP in Eve, and I have no interest in anything calling itself PvP that doesn't rise to this level. 

Loss is also not just a matter of win/lose in Eve. If you PvP, you WILL die, and often. However, you have not simply 'lost' because your ship was destroyed. You may have sacrificed yourself to trap an entire enemy fleet, or take out their command ship so the rest of your fleet can carry on to victory.

This is the single largest problem people seem to have. They get entirely too attached to internet spaceships and avatars, so that any loss becomes rage inducing. I die all the time, and specifically fly ships that tend to die first, and fast in a fight. I enjoy the game of Eve, not just 'winning' all the time. Even being blown into space dust is fun, and if it's not- then the fault is with the player, not the game.

nick_capozzoli
nick_capozzoli

@f4rg0 Thank you so much! : )

A bit of clarification on skill training: passive training of skills has never really struck me as a defining feature of EVE. The pros and cons sort of cancel each other out, for me. I can wrap my brain around frustrations waiting for long skill (say, one of the 19 day piloting ones), but as someone who sometimes has trouble devoting regular time to MMOs, I also sort of enjoyed that I could progress when not actively playing. And since you can have fun and do well in EVE with a bare minimum of skills, I've never felt it's of much consequence.

Comme ci comme ca.

dutchgamer83
dutchgamer83

@AjenoMerveilles I got the same thing as you. I returned a few times too this game. I like the whole idea and setting. But everytime it slips again. The first time it was because of the horrible beginning. I was at a huge lose so i gave up. Then they introduced a better tutorial for people like me. I actually began to understand what i was doing and why and finished the tutorial. But shorty after i cought myself playing less and less again. 


I returned another time, again things had changed in EVE and this time some friends of mine where playing so it was nice to know people there. But i never really liked the long travels and probably my lack of being efficient with them. Having to stare at my screen for 20 minutes as the auto pilot brough me from point a to b to deliver some goods for a mission. Still i love the whole idea with all the pvp and love reading the stories of player events that happened. I just don't think i have the patience for this game or the will to continue. Still a great game though.

Arcturuss
Arcturuss

@Tetranon EVE pve is shit.

Its really really shit.

Thats why for the last four years i've done only pvp.  Best, game, ever.

Xercodo
Xercodo

@nicolasetespqr  like Arcturuss said, mining can certainly enjoyable. You just dont do it by coming in and literally staring at the asteroid when you do it. Have some active social chats to hang out in, do some market research, maybe watch a movie and tab back every now and then, read a book or something. It's a great semi-passive activity that can be a fairly relaxing way to make money.


And now that proc and skiff are have some epic tanks you dont need to worry too much about suicide ganks either :P

Arcturuss
Arcturuss

@nicolasetespqr Some people like mining, amazingly enough.

But if you don't, the great thing is that you don't ever ever ever ever have to do it!

shayneoneill
shayneoneill

I dunno. I only ever had one account, and privately speaking, I'm pretty shit at the game mechanics. But I got ahead getting to a relatively senior position in a major alliance too, because i understood that at its core EVE is a *social* game.


And dude, fleet fights are damn fun. The first ones i was in where I was in an expensive ship I almost felt like my heart was tearing out of my chest, it was so nerve wracking and fun.

TheLamaKnows
TheLamaKnows

@psycros so... someone that's never actually played, or at least beyond a trial and reading rage-quit threads. I've played Eve for years, it's had it's ups and downs, but there is nothing else like it. It's a what you make of it. Playing alone, afraid of 2/3 of the map, staring at PvE endlessly- deserves to be as boring as the player behind the toon doing it. 

1hsb
1hsb

@f4rg0 All I can add to this is that you should never fly drunk and angry. I lost 6 Drakes (Battlecruisers') in the space of 2 hours to the same gate-camp. It still hurts 3 years later.


But it's still the most awesomely grown-up game you can play on-line :)

fireforge_basic
fireforge_basic

Two things that Eve does differently is the way it handles losing. In eve losing hurts. A bad night can be so painful... it follows you. However, that makes accomplishing something so much more rewarding. In Eve you don't want to lose. It's like comparing Lazer Tag to paintball. In lazer tag you don't want to get shot cause you don't want to get shot because you don't want to lose. In paintball you don't want to get shot cause it freaking hurts. Eve is like paintball.


Second they have a single server and they allow People carve their guilds name into space and they own it. They can say who lands their and who doesn't. You have to protect it with your blood, sweat and tears.


They actually have a political map you can pull up in Eve right now, and the guilds name shows up in their sections of space. If you let a group of people make up a clan name and actually own a piece of space all one one server. That's really cool!


One last thing.. They have so many cool player made mini games its insane. Right now, you can log in and play Texas hold'em for ingame credits. With an all automated bot system. How crazy is that?

sukee_tsayah
sukee_tsayah

@Janpieterzun " i find insular communities like this to be full of depressed people and those trying to cope or escape shitty lives" 

Unlike forum trolls right? *eye roll*

Truth is the vast majority of people I play this game with are successful at whatever they do and are way beyond the level of maturity of any other gaming community I've ever encountered. 

f4rg0
f4rg0

@nick_capozzoli @f4rg0 Well yeah, it all comes down to the skills that work best for you but as years go by, ships change, fittings change and eventually you wanna train all factions to level 5 in order to participate in fleets and fly with decent fittings which is really a pain. But if you ask me, find the role that suits your playstyle and stick with it for as long as you can ;)

TheLamaKnows
TheLamaKnows

@dutchgamer83 @AjenoMerveilles  @dutchgamer83 @AjenoMerveillesThat's really common in Eve, and demonstrates the beauty of real time training for skills- you can put the game down for a bit and come back and it's different. In too many games, getting stuck or frustrated ends any desire to try again- just to be stuck in the same place. In Eve, you can take a break, take a vacation or school semester- and be more powerful when you return. Personally, I adore that over XP grinding- which really only serves short term players who don't 'play' a game, but rather just 'powergame' their way thru to claim a victory.
Since the 'tiericide' initiative, Eve's accessibility to new players has exploded. For years, to do the niche (and more interesting) fleet roles required high SP and expensive ships- but now the focus is on EVERY fleet role being viable, even critical, from the lowest newb to the 50mil SP veteran.
Banging on about issues a ten year old game had 5 years ago is akin to just parroting the old 'Harleys leak oil' line that pre-dates most of the 'experts' that still trot it out, and have never actually ridden much less owned one.
Eve is not the game it was even when I began playing a few years ago. CCP has stumbled, but you get the feeling that they are more like game fans than faceless devs. Their screw ups come from being PART of the community rather than gods lording over it. Even the debacle of Incarna with the space-barbie move- was a mistake made by listening to the wrong group of players. At least they listened.
Lastly, CCP hires players. Many of the people driving the changes in the game are doing so because they were players last week. Literally a player one day, then moved to Iceland and run the game the next.

nicolasetespqr
nicolasetespqr

@Xercodo @nicolasetespqr  


So... since i can skype with my friends, drink beer, listen to music and watch movies while doing crochet work... does that mean croche is an amazingly fun game to play?



Mining itself IS boring (actually you defined it perfectly as endlessly staring at asteroids), so boring that you actually have to (and i quote you) "Have some active social chats to hang out in, do some market research, maybe watch a movie and tab back every now and then, read a book or something" in order to bypass the utter boredom you get while mining.


And no, you don't make money while doing it. You make isk. And while i imagine you can sell isk for actual money, i'm certain there are much more efficient (and definatelly way funnier) ways to earn it.



I love the concept of Eve Online, but the gameplay itself is boring as hell.

psycros
psycros

@TheLamaKnows @psycros LOL yes, baseless assumptions and personal attacks while ignoring my actual post grant you such legitimacy.  Keep on eating CCP's dogfood, I'm sure you'll be a shoe-in for CSM next year ;)

sukee_tsayah
sukee_tsayah

 @Janpieterzun As I said, the vast majority of folks I play Eve Online with are very successful in real life and are not "depressed, with mental health issues" as you said. Feel free to try to spread whatever kind of negative mojo you're infected with, but when you state such absurdity, it should be called out. Pretty simple. 

Janpieterzun
Janpieterzun

@sukee_tsayah 

Oh if you didn't get that, those SAME players were on EvE very active there and used to try to convert people to join their looney bin during the raids.

Janpieterzun
Janpieterzun

@sukee_tsayah @Janpieterzun 

So let me get this straight. I'm a troll when I talk about something I've experienced first hand from MMO gaming? Reality bites doesn't it? Well I'm a successful business owner, meaning my business has a high profit margin and no debt. When  building said business there were plenty of lull's during the years. During which I played plenty of MMO's I was tempted by EvE but members in my WoW guild, quite a few of them made me steer clear of it. More than a handful were depressed, wanted to end their lives, I experienced the drama first hand in WoW. It made me no longer want to play MMO's and I truly enjoy the genre. I preferred only grouping with real life friends that didn't take the game seriously. If those same players were in EvE I didn't want to be part of it. It's that simple. Sorry to burst your little bubble of bullshit. Continue to try and convert people to this, I am sick and tired of players with mental health issues burdening other people with their nonsense.

Xercodo
Xercodo

Well I didn't say mining was the most fun thing ever, just that it can be enjoyable assuming you have the right mind set about it. It's great for hanging out, relaxing, and making a bit of money for your next battleship.

When I say money I DO mean ISK, as in eve currency as money. You can't make any IRL money from eve...legally.

And like we've also said, they're a nothing that requires you to mine for your ISK. Doing something like making money from running FW complexes is much more exciting when the enemy militia players could jump you heh.

Do what you find exciting.

TheLamaKnows
TheLamaKnows

@rowsdour @TheLamaKnows @psycros I'm no CCP fan, but I am a fan of their game. More, I've been around it to see the same parroting of years old BS despite the fact that the game is radically different than it was just a couple years ago.
I am one of those bittervets, been there when CCP wanted to play space barbie with WiS, when it was Nano-Drakes as far as the eye could see, and a single Blackbird in a fleet meant no one engaged. You talk as if to educate me, forgetting that I am the one that actually plays the game. And for that, your opinion is as worthless as the non-descript accusations. The OP said nothing useful, truthful or even specific enough to warrant the bandwidth he wasted.
Is it for everyone? No. Is it nothing but 4 year old, 14th hand dismissals from people that have no idea what they're talking about? Not that either. 

But it's a good thing, the bad reputation. It keeps the theme park kiddies away. Look, it's working already.

rowsdour
rowsdour

@TheLamaKnows @psycros YOU sound like the one whos never played or you would know everything OP said was based in WELL KNOWN fact and/or opinions shared by hundreds if not thousands of bittervets. Sure the games still worth playing for most of us but saying "anyone who disagrees with me has never played" or that hundreds of threadnaughts about bugs/imbalance/etc just dont matter because YOU SAY SO makes you sound retarded or insane. Dont be a fandouche, CCP's shit aint made of gold.

TheLamaKnows
TheLamaKnows

@psycros @TheLamaKnows Your post is worth ignoring. It's patently incorrect, and is nothing more than the same parroting of that which you clearly, clearly have no idea about. Try actually knowing what you're talking about before regurgitating other people's opinions.
As I said, I've played the game for years. So I leave the reader to judge the usefulness of our posts- one by someone who doesn't actually have any experience and just apes whatever negative opinions they hear....or....someone that actually plays said game, has for years, and just maybe has an insight that tourists and twelve year olds don't.
Eve is a sandbox, and is what you make of it. It's not the game's failing if you are incapable of that. Stick with children's titles.

EVE Online

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