Here are some things that changed my views: the rife violence and enmity against non-Muslims; the fact that homosexuality is not actually a "choice"; the principle of abrogation; the verse about wife beating (4:34); Muhammad's divorcing his wife Sawdah bint Zam'ah because she was old and fat; and the permissibility of child marriage in Islam (see 65:4).
However, the thing that I find the most reprehensible in Islam is the clear gynophobia and hence the strong misogyny and sexism in the religion. I have much to say about how I think Islam treats women, but the most concise way of expressing my thoughts is that I think women are treated as property akin to wealth. If you don't believe me, go read the ahadith on sex slaves and the Farewell Sermon, in which Muhammad likens women to domestic animals that have no possessions. I know Islam is also known for its violence and intolerance, but the things I've read about women have offended me the most.Â
Greetings, TAU. I used to post here as a kid who constantly defended Islam. Now, I'm quite skeptical and critical of the religion for ethical and philosophical reasons.
Another hadith that demeans women: Narrated AbuHurayrah Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "A woman may not give a woman in marriage, nor may she give herself in marriage, for the immoral woman is the one who gives herself in marriage." Ibn Majah transmitted it. (Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 935; ALIM CD-ROM Version) Also take a look at this verse: What! has He taken daughters to Himself of what He Himself creates and chosen you to have sons? And when one of them is given news of that of which he sets up as a likeness for the Beneficent God, his face becomes black and he is full of rage. What! that which is made in ornaments and which in contention is unable to make plain speech! S. 43:16-18 Shakir With Ibn Kathir's commentary (http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=43&tid=47533), it's hard to see how this verse is not misogynistic. Also, according to Tafsir al-Jalalayn: What! (a-wa contains both the hamza of denial and the conjunctive waw, 'and', in other words, 'do they ascribe to God ...') one that is brought up amid trinkets, ornaments, and is incoherent in a dispute?, [unable] to argue clearly because of an [inherent] inability [in this respect] as a result of [that person belonging to] the female sex. (Tafsir al-Jalalayn)
[QUOTE="anasbouzid"][QUOTE="Mishmash94"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I will admit my knowledge of the Quran is limited to basically nothing.....I will however say it's not good to take any text out of context and form a conclusion. What is the entirety of the text? Ibn Kathir's commentary says this: Allah says: "There is no compulsion in religion", meaning: do not force anyone to embrace Islam, because it is clear and its proofs and evidences are manifest. Whoever Allah guides and opens his heart to Islam has indeed embraced it with clear evidence. Whoever Allah misguides blinds his heart and has set a seal on his hearing and a covering on his eyes cannot embrace Islam by force...hence Allah revealed this verse. But, this verse is abrogated by the verse of fighting (Qur'an 9:5)...Therefore, all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizya they should be fought till they are killed. This is the meaning of compulsion. In the Sahih, the Prophet said: "Allah wonders at those people who will enter Paradise in chains", meaning prisoners brought in chains to the Islamic state, then they embrace Islam sincerely and become righteous, and are entered among the people of Paradise Actually, this is not correctly but I dont have the evidence with me know (I am not on my home computer). In fact, one really doesnt need much to see what is wrong here. First off if I remember correctly, the context and situation in which the latter verse you mention applies is not as you are assuming. Second, what you say contradicts what the prophet did when the muslims won back mecca. Indeed the "there is no compulsion in religion" is a verse supported by other verses such that nothing short of a clear renounciation of it would suffice as evidence of an abrogation (like in the case of drinking alcohol). Moreover, this kind of narrowminded thinking is characteristic of extremist thought. Ill get back to you with evidence though if this doesnt satisfy. No, you aren't convincing me ATM. Some proof would be nice.
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Mishmash94"][QUOTE="ZEYAAM898"] They claim to be extremists. But in reality they have violated all vital rules of Islam. Qur'an 9:5 suggests otherwise. I will admit my knowledge of the Quran is limited to basically nothing.....I will however say it's not good to take any text out of context and form a conclusion. What is the entirety of the text? Ibn Kathir's commentary says this: Allah says: "There is no compulsion in religion", meaning: do not force anyone to embrace Islam, because it is clear and its proofs and evidences are manifest. Whoever Allah guides and opens his heart to Islam has indeed embraced it with clear evidence. Whoever Allah misguides blinds his heart and has set a seal on his hearing and a covering on his eyes cannot embrace Islam by force...hence Allah revealed this verse. But, this verse is abrogated by the verse of fighting (Qur'an 9:5)...Therefore, all people of the world should be called to Islam. If anyone of them refuses to do so, or refuses to pay the Jizya they should be fought till they are killed. This is the meaning of compulsion. In the Sahih, the Prophet said: "Allah wonders at those people who will enter Paradise in chains", meaning prisoners brought in chains to the Islamic state, then they embrace Islam sincerely and become righteous, and are entered among the people of Paradise
[QUOTE="m25105"][QUOTE="Mishmash94"][QUOTE="m25105"] Prayers are based on body motions, that's easy to learn and remember. Especially if you do it every day. Karate is the best example for it. Yeah, but you get those body motions from the ahadith about performing salah. The point I'm trying to make here is that you can't simply throw out the ahadith. The Qur'an explicitly commands Muslims to follow the Sunnah, which is found in authentic ahadith. I can and I will, there is no such thing as authentic hadith when its all based on hearsay. We should use our own mind, the greatest blessing Allah has given us and live according to the Quran and treat others as we wish to be treated. The moment we start following Sheikh X, who tells us we're all too stupid to understand the Quran and we should listen to him instead, we become sheeps again. I agree with you, but I don't think there's much evidence in Islam to support that claim. You should PM me for further discussion. I'll talk more tomorrow. It's getting late here.
[QUOTE="m25105"] Prayers are based on body motions, that's easy to learn and remember. Especially if you do it every day. Karate is the best example for it. Yeah, but you get those body motions from the ahadith about performing salah. The point I'm trying to make here is that you can't simply throw out the ahadith. The Qur'an explicitly commands Muslims to follow the Sunnah, which is found in authentic ahadith.
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