[QUOTE="dirktu"]Never mind Truth_Hurts_U (Hi there T_H_U ! :P). We had a lot of fun discussing the 360 problems in the European Commission thread :D. He's always outnumbered, but never outgunned (although all his shots miss the mark).

MS has some clear problems with the 360, but that doesn't mean the games or the possible potential of the console is bad. So I totally agree with the PS2 comparison! If you own the system and have no problems whatsoever, you shouldn't be blind for problems others have. 

Truth_Hurts_U

I guess my realistic side, is stronger then my fanboy side.

ROFL :lol:

[QUOTE="Doomshine"][QUOTE="Kreean"]And how do you know that it's not true? They have all the same problem:

1. scratched disks

2. RLOD

I don't hear people complaining: it doesn't power on anymore/ I have a read error/ I cannot conect to the net ...

They complain always about the same 1. and 2. and that's enough indication for a major design flaw. Hell even some engineers have already found what causes 1. (missing distance spacer on the laser unit) and 2. (X clamps), but some guys still refuse that this is a problem. 3-5% is the common industry standard for defective electronics, I have to know because I work in the after sales service for a company that produces digital cameras. But even we had about 40 to 50% defects in one series after the bad CCD issue that Sony screwed up 4 years ago. They admitted the problem and we got to exchange the CCDs free of charge when the error occured. I don't see MS doing that.

Truth_Hurts_U

Exactly, and just because my PS2 and all my friends PS2's work fine doesn't mean I ignore the fact that people actually had problems with it.

There is a problem... A 3-5% problem. MS already said the launch batch was higher then normal. But they never said about an increased number since. Only people on the internet did, with speculation. I don't wanna hear... "But it's MS" thats no excuse!

Like I said you can agree or disagree. Still not going to change the fact that the failure rate is 3-5%.

Are you nuts? Of course they won't say it's more! Why should they? They would play into the hands of Sony and Nintendo and create bad PR. You think they were generous when they admitted 3-5% failure rate? It's the industry standard! No engineer or consumer affairs representative would doubt that number. If they had admitted 10% I would believe them more, but they said the industry standard, that's like saying "Hey everything is normal." I doubt that.

Out of all my consoles, (Sega Master System, Mega Drive, PS1, PS2) the only one I had problems with was...............................

the Sega Master System! It still works, but I have to put the cartridges into the machine in a very specific way to get it to read them.

Doomshine

my Master System died two years ago :cry: hell I miss Wonderboy in Monsterland :(

You people crack me up. There is going to be a flow of new broken 360's as they sell.

360 sells what 250,000 units or more around the world? You use the 5% failure rate on them and you get 12,500 that are bad.

You think 237,500 people are going to come on the net and let everyone know they have a working 360? No there not.

Now you know the 12,500 people with bad consoles are going to come on the net. Even if it was 500 that spam Youtube or forums... People all of a sudden think that makes the failure rate more then 5%.

The rate of failure is 3-5% whether you disagree or not.

 

Truth_Hurts_U

And how do you know that it's not true? They have all the same problem:

 1. scratched disks

 2. RLOD

I don't hear people complaining: it doesn't power on anymore/ I have a read error/ I cannot conect to the net ...

They complain always about the same 1. and 2. and that's enough indication for a major design flaw. Hell even some engineers have already found what causes 1. (missing distance spacer on the laser unit) and 2. (X clamps), but some guys still refuse that this is a problem. 3-5% is the common industry standard for defective electronics, I have to know because I work in the after sales service for a company that produces digital cameras. But even we had about 40 to 50% defects in one series after the bad CCD issue that Sony screwed up 4 years ago. They admitted the problem and we got to exchange the CCDs free of charge when the error occured. I don't see MS doing that.

I had a GameBoy, NES, Gamegear, Sega Master System, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, PS1, Dreamcast and a PS2.

Only the PS1 had problems. I was an early adopter and the Laser Unit was crap after one year (not only mine had that problem...).

Today? I don't know. From the 7gen consoles I would say X360...

A recall would be a catastrophe in PR. It would be an instant kill for future sales and market growth of the X360. Before they do this they will try to compensate, by giving extended warranty and free repair. But if I were MS I wouldn't continue to play this game, they play with the customers at the moment. If they do, the European Commission for customer affairs will be happy to kick their butt.

[QUOTE="Kreean"]

Greg... please check the European Amazon sites

Amazon UK

Amazon France

Amazon Germany

and tell me if you can find any X360 bundle in the Top 100. No, there is not a single one. Does that mean that X360 is dead in Europe? I doubt that!

greg_splicer

See now, PS3 outsells 360 in germany and france, and i can clearly see that in those amazon sites, it IS an indication, and in UK it IS an indication that 360 sells well, not that it sels better than PS3 as is the reality, but again it is an indication

Um, I understand what you mean, but I would never use Amazon Top 100 charts for analysing a consoles market growth.

Greg... please check the European Amazon sites

Amazon UK

Amazon France

Amazon Germany

and tell me if you can find any X360 bundle in the Top 100. No, there is not a single one. Does that mean that X360 is dead in Europe? I doubt that!