When is an unfinished product justifiable for sale?

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

It's never justifiable. That's why I believe video game reviewers and critics need to put a bigger emphasis on addressing these buggy, glitched, unfinished video games in their reviews. And it would also help that they do not let popular developers get away with unfinished, unpolished, video games. If it's not "finished" it should not be released. Delay, postpone, spend more time ironing out the bugs. Take responsibility.

In the case of video games, developers and publishers alike, think they could get away with it because they have patches to save them. It's a lazy mentality, and a slap in the face to consumers, as well as, making a bad example of developers and making the gaming industry look bad.

It's never justifiable. That's why I believe video game reviewers and critics need to put a bigger emphasis on addressing these buggy, glitched, unfinished video games in their reviews. And it would also help that they do not let popular developers get away with unfinished, unpolished, video games. If it's not "finished" it should not be released. Delay, postpone, spend more time ironing out the bugs. Take responsibility.

In the case of video games, developers and publishers alike, think they could get away with it because they have patches to save them. It's a lazy mentality, and a slap in the face to consumers, as well as, making a bad example of developers and making the gaming industry look bad.

It's never justifiable. That's why I believe video game reviewers and critics need to put a bigger emphasis on addressing these buggy, glitched, unfinished video games in their reviews. And it would also help that they do not let popular developers get away with unfinished, unpolished, video games. If it's not "finished" it should not be released. Delay, postpone, spend more time ironing out the bugs. Take responsibility.

In the case of video games, developers and publishers alike, think they could get away with it because they have patches to save them. It's a lazy mentality, and a slap in the face to consumers, as well as, making a bad example of developers and making the gaming industry look bad.

Elann2008

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

It's never justifiable. That's why I believe video game reviewers and critics need to put a bigger emphasis on addressing these buggy, glitched, unfinished video games in their reviews. And it would also help that they do not let popular developers get away with unfinished, unpolished, video games. If it's not "finished" it should not be released. Delay, postpone, spend more time ironing out the bugs. Take responsibility.

In the case of video games, developers and publishers alike, think they could get away with it because they have patches to save them. It's a lazy mentality, and a slap in the face to consumers, as well as, making a bad example of developers and making the gaming industry look bad.

Ashley_wwe

With video games we want them to be played as they should be: and that's smoothly with as little glitches as possible. Bethesda just got lazy and threw this out on us, when (as everyone has already mentioned) they could of easily delayed the game and patched it up properly. ;)

With video games we want them to be played as they should be: and that's smoothly with as little glitches as possible. Bethesda just got lazy and threw this out on us, when (as everyone has already mentioned) they could of easily delayed the game and patched it up properly. ;)

BattleSpectre

[QUOTE="BattleSpectre"]

With video games we want them to be played as they should be: and that's smoothly with as little glitches as possible. Bethesda just got lazy and threw this out on us, when (as everyone has already mentioned) they could of easily delayed the game and patched it up properly. ;)

Ashley_wwe

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

DamianAlexander

it is never justifiable to roll out a product which is unfinished. Unfortunately, this is not how business works nowadays. And to change that mentality, one needs to try to change the whole philosophy of business - make profits within a deadline. This is never going to happen.

I still haven't run into any big, or even annoying, problems. I don't know why anyone expected this game wouldn't be full of bugs with Bethesda and Obsidian working on it.

These Fallout threads need to stop, why aren't mods locking all of these? I'm starting to thank God that everyone wasn't on the internet in the 80s and 90s.Every thread would be about why some game is glitchy or completely unplayable.

nope its not ok. I understand there will be bugs especially in a game of this scale but when there are multiple game ending glitches, thats a problem. Nobody wants to put in dozens of hours only to find out they cant finish the game. I refuse to believe that testers didnt run into any of these problems at anytime. They just ran of of dev time and decided to release it. Typical business move but that dosent mean its good business.

Now they have a mess on their hands and please believe its affecting sales. Taking the time to iron out the bugs would have been better for us and them.

and multiplayer (in this generation).Ashley_wwe

Never. Admitted;y there are some things in games which cant be tested thouroughly. but that is mostly down to multiplayer titles. A single player game should be next to perfect when shipped. NO EXCEPTIONS

just putting out patches is NOT acceptable to me. not everyone has an internet cable running where they play their games. not everyone even HAS internet, and some places only have dial-up still or they have a limited amount of bandwidtth that they can use. what's on the disc is what the game is. period. there's no excuse for them not to fix this stuff before the game comes out.

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

DamianAlexander

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

No, I haven't played it, but my very close friend has and can't continue to play because his Save file won't load. I've also read countless threads explaining different way the game has broken on them.

I'm glad you haven't ran into a game breaking glitch and I hope that you don't. But when you do, will you still defend a broken game as you blindly defend it now? You are one of a few who seem to not have ran into anything.

[QUOTE="ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

DamianAlexander

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

No, I haven't played it, but my very close friend has and can't continue to play because his Save file won't load. I've also read countless threads explaining different way the game has broken on them.

I'm glad you haven't ran into a game breaking glitch and I hope that you don't. But when you do, will you still defend a broken game as you blindly defend it now? You are one of a few who seem to not have ran into anything.

So because people have had problems you have the right to complain? No sorry you dont, 50 hours in and no problems wouldn't exactly be "blindly" defending something either. "Unfinished" is not correct either if it wasn't finished i wouldnt have beat the game? Unpolished perhaps would have been a better choice of words.

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ"]

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ

No, I haven't played it, but my very close friend has and can't continue to play because his Save file won't load. I've also read countless threads explaining different way the game has broken on them.

I'm glad you haven't ran into a game breaking glitch and I hope that you don't. But when you do, will you still defend a broken game as you blindly defend it now? You are one of a few who seem to not have ran into anything.

So because people have had problems you have the right to complain? No sorry you dont, 50 hours in and no problems wouldn't exactly be "blindly" defending something either.

I don't need to invest in this product the be outraged that they would still sell it in the condition it was sold in. Also, you're blindly defending a game that does indeed have glitches. If everywhere you go people are complaining that there are game breaking glitches then clearly there are. You're choosing to look away from what everybody else is saying and blindly defend a game that this very website has deemed glitched and half broken.

[QUOTE="ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

No, I haven't played it, but my very close friend has and can't continue to play because his Save file won't load. I've also read countless threads explaining different way the game has broken on them.

I'm glad you haven't ran into a game breaking glitch and I hope that you don't. But when you do, will you still defend a broken game as you blindly defend it now? You are one of a few who seem to not have ran into anything.

DamianAlexander

So because people have had problems you have the right to complain? No sorry you dont, 50 hours in and no problems wouldn't exactly be "blindly" defending something either.

I don't need to invest in this product the be outraged that they would still sell it in the condition it was sold in. Also, you're blindly defending a game that does indeed have glitches. If everywhere you go people are complaining that there are game breaking glitches then clearly there are. You're closing to look away from what everybody else is saying and blindly defend a game that this very website has deemed glitched and half broken.

Yeah im just "lucky" i have not had any glitches. Everwhere you go people are complaining about the game? Do you hang out in gamestop all day long or something? The only thing you do is go on video game forums? I dont see how "everywhere" you go people would only be talking about fallout new vegas glitches. There are people in various threads on this site alone that have not had an issue with the game. So go ahead and make threads blindly attacking a game that you have never played you are super awesome, be "outraged".

You should check out this: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/fallout-new-vegas

and another in case you thought that was rigged: http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/959557-fallout-new-vegas/index.html

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

[QUOTE="ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ"]

So because people have had problems you have the right to complain? No sorry you dont, 50 hours in and no problems wouldn't exactly be "blindly" defending something either.

ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ

I don't need to invest in this product the be outraged that they would still sell it in the condition it was sold in. Also, you're blindly defending a game that does indeed have glitches. If everywhere you go people are complaining that there are game breaking glitches then clearly there are. You're closing to look away from what everybody else is saying and blindly defend a game that this very website has deemed glitched and half broken.

Yeah im just "lucky" i have not had any glitches. Everwhere you go people are complaining about the game? Do you hang out in gamestop all day long or something? The only thing you do is go on video game forums? I dont see how "everywhere" you go people would only be talking about fallout new vegas glitches. There are people in various threads on this site alone that have not had an issue with the game. So go ahead and make threads blindly attacking a game that you have never played you are super awesome, be "outraged".

You should check out this: http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/fallout-new-vegas

and another in case you thought that was rigged: http://www.gamerankings.com/xbox360/959557-fallout-new-vegas/index.html

No, you're not lucky. You're just so good at this game. Aren't you the guy who said "If you run into any glitches in Fallout 3 then you must be bad at the game"? Or atleast you said that to some degree.

If you're trying to insult me by saying that I "hang out" at Gamestop all day then try again. I post quite a lot on these forums, and I read more threads than I post in. So yeah, I think I have a pretty general idea of percentage of people who seem to have had a game-breaking glitch to those "lucky" or "good" players who haven't.

And don't post a Metacritic, we all know this game ranked higher because of it's previous title and because of the company who created it. If this were a new video game company everybody would be outraged.

I haven't played this game, I think I have enough evidence on this forum, on this website's review, and on other website's reviews that state that this game has game breaking glitches.

If you want to stand by Fallout New Vegas and over look the countless amount of people who are just waiting for this patch to come out so they can play again then who's the blind one?

You're right. The opinion of one always outnumbers the opinion of many. I really do hope that you don't turn you system on to find that your file can't be loaded like my friend's, I really do. I wouldn't want to see your expression when the game turns it's back on you.

Edit: My age should have nothing to do with this argument. It's not part of the topic, and doesn't underrate, nor prove my point wrong.

it is never justifiable to roll out a product which is unfinished. Unfortunately, this is not how business works nowadays. And to change that mentality, one needs to try to change the whole philosophy of business - make profits within a deadline. This is never going to happen.

EvilSelf

I'd like to interject that Blizzard has, and will continue, to use a business model that is quite the oppisite of what your saying and they are arguably one of, if not the, biggest game developers out there. I mean Starcraft 2 took 12 years but it was the second fastest selling P.C. game of all time, second to WoW:WOTLK.

Back to the topic of Obsidian and New Vegas, I think Obsidian just couldn't stand on their own for the game. Alpha Protocol just came out and that game was reviewed as " tarnished by bugs" and rated very poorley across the board which is a shame because on paper that sounded like a very cool idea. In NV's case, I think Bethesda basically gave Obsidian the same exact tools, which were used by them, to try and construct a game but the problem is that FO3 had alot of bugs as well, and if we try to build with broken tools the results are never really satisfying. I'm not sure if Obsidian spread themselves too thin working on the 2 games around the same time or what, but I know I won't be picking up New Vegas anytime soon, probably a rent if anything.

When you guys are done fighting, would you kindly buy me a copy of the game? Still on my list of games I must play (Off-topic posting, I know).

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

Dude, we get it. You love this game and it works perfect for you. You dont have to be in every single thread about other peoples complaints.

With that, I agree with the OP. This seems like the only industry where unfinised, broken products are tolerated. It would be like buying a movie and having certain scenes skip out, or cut through without any warning.

[QUOTE="ZzZEVOLUTIONZzZ"]

[QUOTE="DamianAlexander"]

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

OneBadLT123

Funny you haven't played it according to your gamertag but your allowed to try and bash it.

To answer your topic when you spend 50 hours in it already and are still having loads of fun. The game doesn't have game breaking glitches at least for me anyways...

Dude, we get it. You love this game and it works perfect for you. You dont have to be in every single thread about other peoples complaints.

HIS COMPLAINT ISNT VALID HE HASN'T PLAYED THE GAME. Wow people seriously.... It would be one thing if he didn't single out new vegas and just said games in general, however he decided to troll and flame.

I think a company feels a game is good enough to sell after the pre-order becomes platinum.

I can't think of any industry that can justifiably sell a finished product in the condition in which New Vegas has been shipped. I can understand glitches. I understand that game testers don't always get every single tiny glitch but it's becoming ever so more clear that this game was obviously not completely out of it's bug testing stage.

You couldn't sell a car, toy, piece of furniture, or a food product in the same condition as New Vegas is in. Any other product would suffer a mass recall that would cost the company more that the product was worth and negative publicity.

So do you think it's justifiable for a video game company to sell and unfinished, bugged, and unplayable game simply because it can be patched in the future? Or do you think said company should have to pay back a sort of compensation for selling this unfinished work?

I still dont see what the big deal is with this topic. There are two simple conclusions:

1. Fallout New Vegas is a very playable game and in fact is the best game this year and better than Fallout 3.

How in the hell am i able to be on my 4th playthrough (which i just started this morning) if this game was broken?Play the game and then judge.

2.The main point is unfinished product, being sold to a crowd of people, is a daylight robery to me and should not be tolerated in any possible way. End of stroy.

Did i mention that FNV is an amazing game yet?:)

it's not just video games, it's software in general. however console game developers don't have as much of an excuse seeing as how all the hardware should behave the same.teknic1200

The hardware behaves the same but the developer's ability to "exploit" and maximize its capabilities is not. Obsidian's ability falls short as we can witness...

As the great Yes Man (you might not know who i am talking about) would say: "Did i mention "exploit"?...it is such an ugly word..."

But yeah, this inability to maximise performance while minimize the bugfest is even a worst problem for which there is not excuse providing that XBOX;s hardware is static when it comes to upgrades (harddrive space is out of context)

Fallout New Vegas is a very playable game and in fact is the best game this year and better than Fallout 3.

EvilSelf

[QUOTE="EvilSelf"]

Fallout New Vegas is a very playable game and in fact is the best game this year and better than Fallout 3.

StaticKornSlipX

FNV is the best game this year that i have played...Fixed!:D