Dark Souls may have crossed the line into cheap territory

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

I understand the reason people like these games, and I am holding out hope for Dark Souls, but I doubt I'll buy it for the same reason I regreted buying Demon Souls...because I don't have the time to play games that require me to replay every level in the game over and over because I don't what is coming next. That's what I mostly hated about Demon Souls: You had to die multiple times on the same level until you could memorize every hazard and enemy. It is like playing the original Ninja Gaiden on the NES.

Demon Souls was boring and the approach is the same as every other generic dungeon crawler type game. Early on I was interested in Demon Souls but I'm losing that over time.

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

Essian

[QUOTE="Essian"]

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

AWolfoftheCalla

[QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"][QUOTE="Essian"]

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

Essian

honestly, with how hard demons souls was and dark souls supposedly being harder, i would not have put it past the devs to have had a boss that in rare cases used a special attack that caused perma death of your character if caught in it. Im a LITTLE shocked there isnt something like this in the game.

yeah, i mean, if i end up being that one player in maybe 1000 that ends up getting cursed to oblivion and has to restart, i will probably yell and scream, gnash my teeth and swear off the game... i agree it will TOTALLY SUCK for that one player. meanwhile thousands of others will be playing the game and it will not happen to them, and they will complete it as normal.

i really feel sorry for the one player out there who will inevitably get cursed to hell and back, finally get cured after tens of hours of trying to get to the witch, and then get all of their best gear destroyed by the bile spitting dragon shortly after. we all know it is going to happen to a handful of us, and i preemptively apologize and give my deepest sympathies. then again, it is hard to feel sympathy for someone who ALLOWED these things to happen to them. let us not forget that the frogs can be dodged and/or killed... and the bile can be avoided. The game is brutally fair. if it happens to you, it is your fault, not the games.

If you died in demon's souls, didn't use the ring and assuming you didn't level out health alot of stuff could kill you in one hit....Really don't see how a curse would be any worse. You should be dodging or blocking the stuff anyways.

As for the armor you can repair it even when it breaks. Don't know what the reviewer was going on about...

If you died in demon's souls, didn't use the ring and assuming you didn't level out health alot of stuff could kill you in one hit....Really don't see how a curse would be any worse. You should be dodging or blocking the stuff anyways.

As for the armor you can repair it even when it breaks. Don't know what the reviewer was going on about...

Ilikemyname420

The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlHilbillyRokstar

The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlHilbillyRokstar

[QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlEssian

[QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"]

If you died in demon's souls, didn't use the ring and assuming you didn't level out health alot of stuff could kill you in one hit....Really don't see how a curse would be any worse. You should be dodging or blocking the stuff anyways.

As for the armor you can repair it even when it breaks. Don't know what the reviewer was going on about...

Essian

[QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlAWolfoftheCalla

[QUOTE="Essian"][QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"]

If you died in demon's souls, didn't use the ring and assuming you didn't level out health alot of stuff could kill you in one hit....Really don't see how a curse would be any worse. You should be dodging or blocking the stuff anyways.

As for the armor you can repair it even when it breaks. Don't know what the reviewer was going on about...

Ilikemyname420

[QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"][QUOTE="Essian"] blocking doesn't stop the curse, and I don't believe any game should be SO unforgiving as to not give you another chance. Once your health gets nerfed to hell, its game over basically, and I think that's wrong. If the curse was TIMED, Cured by a miracle, lost upon death, or any number of other more amicable game mechanics, it would make it more reasonable and FAIR. I don't think that having to restart your whole game just for making a mistake in dodging is fair. The whole point of Demon's Souls was learning for your mistakes, not being ungodly punished for them.Essian

"Curse is a nasty effect that halves your life everytime you die, and it stacks on deaths meaning you could end up playing at 1/8 of your real lifebar. To recover from this status, you must purchase a book from (Name?) at the Bell Tower of Undead Parish for 4000 souls, or you must talk to the priestess (Name?) at New Londo." From: http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/FAQ

Wouldn't doubt there were creatures that could cast it though....

[QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"][QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlHilbillyRokstar

[QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]

[QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"] nothing about rage is "smokin". it looks boring, generic, and caught up in 90's gameplay. oooh a corridor... shoot some folks... oooh another corridor... shoot some more folks.AWolfoftheCalla

[QUOTE="Essian"][QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"] I don't mean blocking the curse (you get it when you die), I'm just meaning it shouldn't affect you a whole lot because pretty much everything would be killing you in 1-2 hits anyways.....leveling health was never a good tactic in demon's souls and hell there were even builds using the cleaver rat's ring where you'd purposely keep your health below 30% at all times. Even in demon's souls it was quite possible to get semi stuck by breaking all your armor and losing all your souls but it had to have been pretty rare (never heard of it happening to anyone) seems about the same in this. Demon's souls punished you for making mistakes and it forced you to learn from them, this game seems to be doing the same thing it just makes the punishments a tad more severe but it's still nothing hugely debilitating. Ilikemyname420

"Curse is a nasty effect that halves your life everytime you die, and it stacks on deaths meaning you could end up playing at 1/8 of your real lifebar. To recover from this status, you must purchase a book from (Name?) at the Bell Tower of Undead Parish for 4000 souls, or you must talk to the priestess (Name?) at New Londo." From: http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/FAQ

Wouldn't doubt there were creatures that could cast it though....

buying neither game rage or dark souls, rage because it looks meh and Dark souls because I don't think punishing players is all that fun, If I am buying a 60 dollar game it better be for entertainment, not the devs being entertained that I wont ever beat the game.

buying neither game rage or dark souls, rage because it looks meh and Dark souls because I don't think punishing players is all that fun, If I am buying a 60 dollar game it better be for entertainment, not the devs being entertained that I wont ever beat the game.

Santesyu

Yeah, I read about the frog curse, but I didn't know that it stacked. That sounds really cheap. The armor one is kind of lame too, but the frog curse is the really cheap one.

Regardless, I'll still end up playing it anyway because it looks really cool.

These games are not 'for everyone' nor were they meant to be. ...I fail to see the issue. Glad to see some people are getting the experience they want.rawsavon

[QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlEssian

[QUOTE="Essian"][QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]The more I learn about this game, the less I wanna play it. And the last Rage video was SMOKIN'! . . .link . . .http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/id-tech-5-project/1197484p1.htmlwizdom

If I am not mistaken people like this game and its predecessor precisely for its difficulty. I thought the first game was cheap as &*$# but apparently others didn't and still enjoyed it. It will be the same way for Dark Souls. Ghost_702

nothing about rage is "smokin". it looks boring, generic, and caught up in 90's gameplay. oooh a corridor... shoot some folks... oooh another corridor... shoot some more folks.AWolfoftheCalla

[QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"][QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]Well, you know what opinions are like . . .everybody has one.

firefox59

oh dear.... please elaborate on what rage is doing that is new and ground breaking.....

nothing? oh ok, so we will just it together with every other shooter.

fyi, battlefield doesnt come out every year.... or every 3 years.... it has been 6 years since a proper battlefield game (BF2) came out.

dark souls does everything new, there is no other game like it except demons souls. your argument fails on all fronts....

[QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"][QUOTE="HilbillyRokstar"]Well, you know what opinions are like . . .everybody has one.

firefox59

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"] yeah unfortunately my opinion is backed up by several boring, generic gameplay videos... which are pretty solid proof.Ilikemyname420

[QUOTE="firefox59"][QUOTE="AWolfoftheCalla"] yeah unfortunately my opinion is backed up by several boring, generic gameplay videos... which are pretty solid proof.AWolfoftheCalla

oh dear.... please elaborate on what rage is doing that is new and ground breaking.....

nothing? oh ok, so we will just it together with every other shooter.

fyi, battlefield doesnt come out every year.... or every 3 years.... it has been 6 years since a proper battlefield game (BF2) came out.

dark souls does everything new, there is no other game like it except demons souls. your argument fails on all fronts....

The game seems so unfair. I just watched the 20+ ways to die thing and I would be so frusturated. I hardly got into Demon Souls because of the punishing difficulty so I certainly will not buy Dark Souls.

[QUOTE="Ilikemyname420"]

[QUOTE="firefox59"] This is precisely the problem. Devs try something new and you all go "oh its the same generic shooter" and no one buys it. Great games like Singularity, Wolfenstein, Crysis 2 and others get passed over but then you guys go buy COD and Battlefield every year and those other games get no credit and don't get sequels. Then RPGs like this come out where the devs purposely do things that make players play the same parts of games over and over again and no one sees it or calls them on it. And once again great RPGs like Resonance of Fate, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey etc get passed over because Dark Souls is the new cool shiny game that everyone bandwagons and buys. It has to suck being a dev seeing your game **** on while these other games inexplicably make bank. *End rant*firefox59

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

Essian

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

Essian

[QUOTE="Essian"]

Sigh... it breaks my heart to see this. I've been watching the 24 hour Dark Souls livestream with IGN.com, and just read their review of the game, and it saddens me to say that the devs have finally broken the golden rule of tough games, and made their adventure cheap. Now to be fair, it's not ALWAYS cheap. There are just two specific instances where I feel the game is just plain broken.

1. Curses - in the game, a frog enemy can curse you, cutting your overall HP by HALF. This is familiar to demon's souls players, as it was the same consequence of dying in the first game. But the debuff stacks. So you can actually be so far limited by your max health that EVERY enemy can kill you in just 1 hit. And the curse does not fade upon dying, and can only be healed by an NPC in a few specific areas of the world. This can effectively break your game save, and one of the IGN editors says that he must not restart his character because of this game mechanic.

2. One of the boss fights features an enemy that shoots a corrosive bile that can degrade armor quickly. The problem is that once armor has been broken, it's gone forever, and you can't repair it or get it back. This means that the one boss can destroy your entire arsenal of weapons. That's not fair, and that is NOT fun.

I think we all knew in our hearts that in order to make a game harder than Demon's Souls, they were going to cross the line into cheap land, but it's just really sad that they've done it. Not sure I'm even going to be picking up the game anymore. Having to retry a boss 17 times for 4 hours because he's hard, I can handle. Having to restart my entire game save because of a game breaking mechanic. That is just NOT fair.

dragonps

This game is awesome but I just don't have time to waste anymore just to keep dying and dying all over again. hehehehe

I like games which are more fun than brutally hard. Portal for example strikes the pefect balance in my opinion. Games that punish you by making you learn stuff over and over again just arent fun in my opinion.V4LENT1NE

Why do so many people feel that the difficulty of this game is some poor gimic?? The difficulty was meant to appeal to a hardcore niche of gamers, this isn't some wii motion control crap gimic.

Firefox, you seem to love continuously bashing on this game. This definitely is not some bandwagon game XD I mean cmon, are you kidding me? The appeal it has to masses is pretty damn low. The games you mentioned probably sold as many copies as Demon Souls rofl....

[QUOTE="V4LENT1NE"]I like games which are more fun than brutally hard. Portal for example strikes the pefect balance in my opinion. Games that punish you by making you learn stuff over and over again just arent fun in my opinion.Essian

Why do so many people feel that the difficulty of this game is some poor gimic?? The difficulty was meant to appeal to a hardcore niche of gamers, this isn't some wii motion control crap gimic.

Firefox, you seem to love continuously bashing on this game. This definitely is not some bandwagon game XD I mean cmon, are you kidding me? The appeal it has to masses is pretty damn low. The games you mentioned probably sold as many copies as Demon Souls rofl....