Why Zant is a Success *Spoilers*

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Happy_Cloud

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#1 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts

[spoiler]

I'm finding it dicouraging how many people seem to hate Zant after he takes his mask off, and it upsets me to hear people saying Nintendo ruined his character. Of course, there is no right or wrong opinion, but I'd like you to see it from my point of view.
1. I highly doubt that Nintendo just made up the story as they went along. Zant's character would have always been intended to be the way it is. Everybody loved how much Midna changed, and I'm sure these changes were all planed beforehand. It's the same with Zant. He was always intended to be portrayed how he was, so it's not like they just took a badass villain and changed him at the last minute.
2. I'd also like to point out that yes, in fact Zant unmasked doesn't look very intimitating. So then, why do you think he would wear a mask then? :wink:
3. Zant, though being an actual character, can be seen as more of a symbol. Indeed, your meetings with him are few and far between, reinforcing this point. Just think, at the start, Zant is some intimidating evil force. Later, you meet him face to face, where you see first hand how powerful and evil he really is. Then, when he is unmasked you see that he is weak and mentally insane*.
Zant is a symbol of Link's obstacles, and what stands in his way, and as Link grows stronger you slowly realise that evil power is not so strong after all.
4. Remember, you're not supposed to like the villain are you? You'd hardly feel satisfied killing some awesome badass, in fact, you'd be sad to see him killed. Is this the case with Zant?
* And yes, he is insane - driven mad by his greed and desire - and not just childish, as he seems. So, Childish? No. Insane? Yes.
Well, that's how I see it. Just think of Zant as a symbol of Link's oppression, and how in reality, though it seems strong it can easily be defeated. I commend Nintendo on creating such a surprising character, which is cleverly executed in this fashion.

[/spoiler]
 
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02sfraser

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#2 02sfraser
Member since 2005 • 671 Posts
I've always like Zant. I thought he was a cool boss and he was obviously meant to be that way from the start. Its nintendo guys. I agree with everything above ^^^^^
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killerfist

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#3 killerfist
Member since 2005 • 20155 Posts
I agree with you but I was dissapointed. I thought he would be harder to beat
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Phantom5800

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#4 Phantom5800
Member since 2006 • 10200 Posts
I agree with your points, and I still thought he was cool at the end, in fact I thought it had been an improvement to see his actual character
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lordsettra12

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#5 lordsettra12
Member since 2005 • 4213 Posts
That whole quote was just dumb, that's like saying how the bad guy in some kid show, shows the kids overcoming puberty... Nitendo can't make symbolic or a good story. That was the dumbest quote ever it's like the guy pooled it out of his @ss. I can't believe u guys actually get into this stuff peaple think up so they can sound smart. Go read a book or Watch a good movie. Zants character was horrid, his backstory was lame if nitendo would of developed it more than the 5 minutes of what the did it would have been a bit better so no his character sucks.
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supermetroidfan

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#6 supermetroidfan
Member since 2004 • 19767 Posts
I liked the real him. Quite the interesting character. One of the coolest villains.
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Happy_Cloud

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#8 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts
I agree with you but I was dissapointed. I thought he would be harder to beatkillerfist


The same can be said for every boss in the game.
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Tharx75

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#9 Tharx75
Member since 2006 • 69 Posts

The same can be said for every boss in the game.
Happy_Cloud

Yeah, totally.
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ErnestoBananez

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#11 ErnestoBananez
Member since 2006 • 77 Posts
That whole quote was just dumb, that's like saying how the bad guy in some kid show, shows the kids overcoming puberty... Nitendo can't make symbolic or a good story. That was the dumbest quote ever it's like the guy pooled it out of his @ss. I can't believe u guys actually get into this stuff peaple think up so they can sound smart. Go read a book or Watch a good movie. Zants character was horrid, his backstory was lame if nitendo would of developed it more than the 5 minutes of what the did it would have been a bit better so no his character sucks.lordsettra12
Okay now, even though I liked Zant when he went insane, I think the original poster's points were kind of... lame and made-up sounding. See what I've done here? I've expressed my opinion without exagerating, insulting, using horrible grammar, or spelling every other word wrong. I think this is something we should all strive for.
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Happy_Cloud

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#12 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts
[QUOTE="lordsettra12"]That whole quote was just dumb, that's like saying how the bad guy in some kid show, shows the kids overcoming puberty... Nitendo can't make symbolic or a good story. That was the dumbest quote ever it's like the guy pooled it out of his @ss. I can't believe u guys actually get into this stuff peaple think up so they can sound smart. Go read a book or Watch a good movie. Zants character was horrid, his backstory was lame if nitendo would of developed it more than the 5 minutes of what the did it would have been a bit better so no his character sucks.ErnestoBananez
Okay now, even though I liked Zant when he went insane, I think the original poster's points were kind of... lame and made-up sounding. See what I've done here? I've expressed my opinion without exagerating, insulting, using horrible grammar, or spelling every other word wrong. I think this is something we should all strive for.



Thanks for voicing your opinion in an intelligent, non-disruptive way. What I said isn't fact, it is only my opinion and the character Zant could be interpreted in many different ways. It just botheres me when people say Nintendo didn't think about what they're doing, and criticize the character without good reason, simply because they wanted a badass villain, which they did get with Ganon.
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ErnestoBananez

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#13 ErnestoBananez
Member since 2006 • 77 Posts
I agree. Although I can't help but be baffled at Zant's immediate transformation from sane to insane. It seemed... unrealistic. I would have loved a slightly insane Zant through most of the game... then it would have made more sense when he snapped. I mean, they DID make him out to be a complete badass until that point, in my opinion. The change seemed kind of... unnatural.
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zeldafreak4life

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#15 zeldafreak4life
Member since 2006 • 677 Posts
Spoiler
I think that it shows how weak he is without ganondorf. He reffers to ganondorf as his "god" so when he is unmasked, it shows what he is without his "helmet" ( ganondorf)
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pernojo

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#16 pernojo
Member since 2003 • 25 Posts

I liked Zant.  Sure once the mask came off, so to did his illusion of omnipotence, but where I really think the charcter design went wrong was in the boss battle.  Here we have a guy who teleports into the spring at Lake Hylia, basically B-slaps the Serpent spirit, paralyzes Link and plays wall-ball with Midna's body.  Yet when we fight our telekinetic friend, he blasts us with some fire balls, tries to step on us, stab us, everything but what he should've done and that's "force choke" Link until he turned bluer than a 5 piece rupee.  Not an exciting boss battle no, but as to why he didn't use those powers deserves an explanation.  As does why Midna is still alive after Ganon is seen holding her shadow helmet in triumph post the Power Squid vs Flame Head match.  She wore that stupid thing the whole game as the imp and I am supposed to believe she gave it up without seriously being maimed as the Super Squid?  Bologna!  Instead the next time we see her she looks better than ever.  The curse is broken, yeah I know, but still we should've been looking at a beautiful corpse or at least a comatose one barely clinging to life.  Anyway Zant, yeah, he should've used those telekinetic powers or had them cancelled out by some means, not just ignored.

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metroid_dragon

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#17 metroid_dragon
Member since 2003 • 1964 Posts

I liked Zant. Sure once the mask came off, so to did his illusion of omnipotence, but where I really think the charcter design went wrong was in the boss battle. Here we have a guy who teleports into the spring at Lake Hylia, basically B-slaps the Serpent spirit, paralyzes Link and plays wall-ball with Midna's body. Yet when we fight our telekinetic friend, he blasts us with some fire balls, tries to step on us, stab us, everything but what he should've done and that's "force choke" Link until he turned bluer than a 5 piece rupee. Not an exciting boss battle no, but as to why he didn't use those powers deserves an explanation. As does why Midna is still alive after Ganon is seen holding her shadow helmet in triumph post the Power Squid vs Flame Head match. She wore that stupid thing the whole game as the imp and I am supposed to believe she gave it up without seriously being maimed as the Super Squid? Bologna! Instead the next time we see her she looks better than ever. The curse is broken, yeah I know, but still we should've been looking at a beautiful corpse or at least a comatose one barely clinging to life. Anyway Zant, yeah, he should've used those telekinetic powers or had them cancelled out by some means, not just ignored.

pernojo
It's my understanding she was killed and revived by the sages, although that's left open to interpretation. As for Zant, You raise some good points, especially the one about not liking him making him an effective badguy, however, he lacked depth, a good background or any deep relation to the player. We hated him more because he was cool and then turned lame, we don't hate him because of something he actually did in the game, which is how a bad guy should inspire dislike. It's metagame thinking that inspires us not to lik Zant, which should never be a way a game develops a player's feelings.
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Happy_Cloud

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#18 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts
Midna's helmet is actually a Fused Shadow, the cutscene before you enter the Palace of Twilight seems to suggest that it is the source of her power. And yes, it was implied that Ganon killed - or at least seriously wounder - her, and that she was revived by the light spirits.

It's true Zant never really used those powers in battle, but no boss really seems to. Let's be realistic here, bosses neetd to be beatable, and they can't just go using insane attacks that cannot be stopped or avoided. This type of criticism applies to many bosses in many different games, not just - Zant. Zant does teleport during the battle though.
 
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GamerGirlPwnz

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#19 GamerGirlPwnz
Member since 2006 • 4501 Posts
True. I always wondered why Midna wears he weird helmet, but I figured it was a piece of the fused shawdow because it looks like the other pieces as well. Strange the Zant didn't take that away from here, because in the cutscene of when you enter the Twilight Realm, Zant could've completely overpowered her. Anyways, it was good for a change that there was a second antagonist other than Ganon/Ganondorf, and I think that is why Zant is a sucess. When I first started playing I figured Zant repleced Ganon/Ganondorf, and I thought that the Zelda creators could actually make something out of that. And do you guys really think its possible for someone who's dead to come back alive...three times? In most Zelda games there i a Ganon to defeat, but if he always dies, then how does he come alive? If Ganon's apperance was being questioned, people would most likly fall under the power of Zant, since he is so very mysterious and evil.
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Happy_Cloud

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#20 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts
True. I always wondered why Midna wears he weird helmet, but I figured it was a piece of the fused shawdow because it looks like the other pieces as well. Strange the Zant didn't take that away from here, because in the cutscene of when you enter the Twilight Realm, Zant could've completely overpowered her. Anyways, it was good for a change that there was a second antagonist other than Ganon/Ganondorf, and I think that is why Zant is a sucess. When I first started playing I figured Zant repleced Ganon/Ganondorf, and I thought that the Zelda creators could actually make something out of that. And do you guys really think its possible for someone who's dead to come back alive...three times? In most Zelda games there i a Ganon to defeat, but if he always dies, then how does he come alive? If Ganon's apperance was being questioned, people would most likly fall under the power of Zant, since he is so very mysterious and evil. GamerGirlPwnz


Ooh, I'm so tempted to thrust my timeline theories at you right now, but I'll just leave it by saying the Ganon you see in TP was never killed, as after Link went back to his own time in OoT, he left and did not kill Ganon, who I believe to be the same Ganon in TP.
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LordAbyssion

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#21 LordAbyssion
Member since 2005 • 11247 Posts
there was noting wrong with Zant, 'cept that he was too easy.......
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Happy_Cloud

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#22 Happy_Cloud
Member since 2006 • 4895 Posts
there was noting wrong with Zant, 'cept that he was too easy.......LordAbyssion


Every boss was too easy. :(
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LordAbyssion

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#23 LordAbyssion
Member since 2005 • 11247 Posts
[QUOTE="LordAbyssion"]there was noting wrong with Zant, 'cept that he was too easy.......Happy_Cloud


Every boss was too easy. :(

yup... I know that if the game is too hard, it will just scare away new gamers............ but Nintendo could still have made it a little harder..... I hope you can choose the difficulty in the next home console Zelda...... but I doubt that will happen.
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Cyn-illusioN

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#24 Cyn-illusioN
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts
After seeing Zant for the first time with his mask off, Ill admit it was a bit startling.  Everyone expected him to be the most BA next to Ganondorf.  But like Happy Cloud said, he was meant to contrast Ganondorf and Himself.  Zant is meant to be portrayed as someone who contived his power through means of blatant circumstance.  Ganondorf saw this person as someone who was foolish enough to carry out his evil wishes.  By creating the Zant that everyone knows and...loves...it just put into perspective the more villianous creature that is Ganondorf.
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#25 johnny139
Member since 2005 • 4036 Posts

I'll let "The Desert Colossus" speak for me.

"When we finally face Zant as the boss . . . this really isn’t the case. Just because we’ve learned that he’s not the big bad guy, it seems Nintendo was fine with no longer treating him like the villainous traitor that he is. He jumps around like a little kid, moves his body into positions that not even a clown should be able to assume without some sort of twisted surgery, and until Stage 6, he only attacks with a few barrages of Twilight energy orbs. Where is the intense wave of magic that threw Lanayru against the wall and knocked the Hero out before he could draw his sword?! Where’s the power that cursed Midna, brought the Twilight to Hyrule, and was granted to him by Ganondorf himself!?! Having a lot of stages does not mean that Zant is a good boss. In the end, the only real strong point of Zant that makes him even boss-worthy is his excessive amount of health. His strength is merely that it takes a lot of hits to bring him down, not that it’s difficult to hit him, which is always the preference."