Atheists and Materialism

I'm a materialist and it seems like the best view of reality to me.

I cannot believe 100% in it becasue I believe in love.btaylor2404

Time, gravity, and evolution are not composed of matter, but they do exist.Genetic_Code

Unless you guys are dualists then all of these are a non-issue.

What are we talking about? I posted something about it was natural to be materialisted, but then was reading the posts and found out I'm lost here :P

EDIT: after briefly reading about it... I'm skeptical.  I believe that love, time, ect are materialistic.  But these words that I hear in my head when I type, how would that be materialism?

EDIT: after briefly reading about it... I'm skeptical.  I believe that love, time, ect are materialistic.  But these words that I hear in my head when I type, how would that be materialism?

helium_flash

That my friend is the qualia debate. Mental representations, thoughts, ideas etc can all be reduced to the physical functions of the brain according to materialism.

Dom, your smarter than I am.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.btaylor2404

Nah I just have some specialised knowledge from the few philosophy courses that I've taken. Plus I tend to stay quiet unless there's something that I actually know about.

Dom, your smarter than I am.  Just thought I'd throw that out there.btaylor2404

What do you guys think of the moral standing of materialism (good, bad, neutral, etc)?Theokhoth

I wouldn't refer to materialism as something as good, bad or neutral unless I judge the idea from a religious perspective...

I don't agree with materialism. Matter isn't all that exists. Time, for instance. I know it can be argued that we only have a subjective sense of the flow of time, but it is impossible for a subjective sense of time to arise from something that doesn't flow in time. Emotions are another thing, they aren't just functions of the brain, they come from our spirit. Or at least mine do, anyway. :P

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Funky_Llama

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Theokhoth

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Then no Theo, according to that definition I don't believe in it.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Theokhoth

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

It seems odd. I mean, it would deny the existence of time, wouldn't it?Funky_Llama

And everything bound by time, which is... everything. 

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]It seems odd. I mean, it would deny the existence of time, wouldn't it?Genetic_Code

And everything bound by time, which is... everything. 

There are arguments which suggest that it wouldn't . . . .but I don't see them as plausible myself.

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Theokhoth

Oh. Well disheed everything I just said guys, I was totally on the wrong track there.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Theokhoth

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

cowboymonkey21

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

I know. I addressed both meanings. >_>

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Theokhoth

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

I know. I addressed both meanings. >_>

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Theokhoth

You should've clarified which materialism we were talking about in the beginning. :P I thought you were talking about that, but I googled it just to be sure and got confused by the other definition and so I didn't feel qualified to respond.

So now that we're talking about that first definition, I have to say I'm not really sure about it anymore. When I was religious, it was of course something that the church condemned so I never gave it a second thought. But now... 

Okay, so if I have a "preoccupation with or emphasis on" happiness, would that be considered materialism?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Forerunner-117

You should've clarified which materialism we were talking about in the beginning. :P I thought you were talking about that, but I googled it just to be sure and got confused by the other definition and so I didn't feel qualified to respond.

So now that we're talking about that first definition, I have to say I'm not really sure about it anymore. When I was religious, it was of course something that the church condemned so I never gave it a second thought. But now... 

Okay, so if I have a "preoccupation with or emphasis on" happiness, would that be considered materialism?

It depends on what gives you happiness. If things give you happiness, then that would be materialism. If  something else gives you happiness, then not necessarily. It's also possible to gain happiness from something without being materialistic; the object in question could have special meaning to you. Like the Cross. People don't worship the Cross, but what it means. In this sense, the Cross (an object) is giving people happiness but it isn't due to materialism.

The belief that happiness (or pleasure) is what's important is called hedonism, and isn't quite the same as materialism since happiness can be garnered from immaterial objects.

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Theokhoth

You should've clarified which materialism we were talking about in the beginning. :P I thought you were talking about that, but I googled it just to be sure and got confused by the other definition and so I didn't feel qualified to respond.

So now that we're talking about that first definition, I have to say I'm not really sure about it anymore. When I was religious, it was of course something that the church condemned so I never gave it a second thought. But now... 

Okay, so if I have a "preoccupation with or emphasis on" happiness, would that be considered materialism?

It depends on what gives you happiness. If things give you happiness, then that would be materialism. If  something else gives you happiness, then not necessarily. It's also possible to gain happiness from something without being materialistic; the object in question could have special meaning to you. Like the Cross. People don't worship the Cross, but what it means. In this sense, the Cross (an object) is giving people happiness but it isn't due to materialism.

The belief that happiness (or pleasure) is what's important is called hedonism, and isn't quite the same as materialism since happiness can be garnered from immaterial objects.

Ahh, interesting. Thanks, I had never actually looked up what hedonism was all about before. :)

[QUOTE="cowboymonkey21"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

I'm going to assume it until proven otherwise. Perhaps that would best be classed as methodological naturalism.

EDIT: Ooh. I thought materialism was synonymous with naturalism. For Lansdowne5's reasons among others, materialism seems pretty shaky to say the least.

Theokhoth

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important.  Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

I know. I addressed both meanings. >_>

OK, in regards to the other meaning - economic materialism, material things are sort of important to me, but nothing compared to my relationship with others, and especially God. :)

[QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important. Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

Theokhoth

You should've clarified which materialism we were talking about in the beginning. :P I thought you were talking about that, but I googled it just to be sure and got confused by the other definition and so I didn't feel qualified to respond.

So now that we're talking about that first definition, I have to say I'm not really sure about it anymore. When I was religious, it was of course something that the church condemned so I never gave it a second thought. But now...

Okay, so if I have a "preoccupation with or emphasis on" happiness, would that be considered materialism?

It depends on what gives you happiness. If things give you happiness, then that would be materialism. If something else gives you happiness, then not necessarily. It's also possible to gain happiness from something without being materialistic; the object in question could have special meaning to you. Like the Cross. People don't worship the Cross, but what it means. In this sense, the Cross (an object) is giving people happiness but it isn't due to materialism.

The belief that happiness (or pleasure) is what's important is called hedonism, and isn't quite the same as materialism since happiness can be garnered from immaterial objects.

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

It doesn't matter if your happiness is derived from a scenic beauty, or rather a new set of expensive clothes.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="Forerunner-117"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

No, materialism is the belief that things are the meaning to life, that money, houses, cars, fancy clothes, etc are what's important. Materialism in the sense of believing matter is all that exists implies naturalism--almost necessitates it--but the two are different. Not to be confused with hedonism.

MetalGear_Ninty

You should've clarified which materialism we were talking about in the beginning. :P I thought you were talking about that, but I googled it just to be sure and got confused by the other definition and so I didn't feel qualified to respond.

So now that we're talking about that first definition, I have to say I'm not really sure about it anymore. When I was religious, it was of course something that the church condemned so I never gave it a second thought. But now...

Okay, so if I have a "preoccupation with or emphasis on" happiness, would that be considered materialism?

It depends on what gives you happiness. If things give you happiness, then that would be materialism. If something else gives you happiness, then not necessarily. It's also possible to gain happiness from something without being materialistic; the object in question could have special meaning to you. Like the Cross. People don't worship the Cross, but what it means. In this sense, the Cross (an object) is giving people happiness but it isn't due to materialism.

The belief that happiness (or pleasure) is what's important is called hedonism, and isn't quite the same as materialism since happiness can be garnered from immaterial objects.

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

Always?

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

Theokhoth

Always?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

 

MetalGear_Ninty

Always?

I never said they did. Nor did I say pleasure, material or otherwise, was the goal.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

 

Theokhoth

Always?

I never said they did. Nor did I say pleasure, material or otherwise, was the goal.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

Material goods bring immaterial pleasures.

 

Funky_Llama

Always?

I never said they did. Nor did I say pleasure, material or otherwise, was the goal.

He never had to bring it up.

He never had to bring it up.

Theokhoth

I'll just remember next time not to add to a conversation again, unless it specifically involves debunking somebodies argument.

I've just had a thought. A popular argument against Materialism seems to involve time. Now if I am understanding Materialism correctly I think that time would boil down to Materialism as well. Time is only a measurement of how the world rotates around the sun, so I think that it would work as well. Also some people have said that they believe in Love, which is an emotion created by the brain.

EDIT: Just be clear I beilieve in Materialism #2 not 1.