Why wont Microsoft allow User-Generated content? Microsoft loss...

Before I proceed, let me say - I don't want to make this about Xbox 360 vs PlayStation 3. But it's hard to imagine why one platform would be so restrictive in terms of user-generated content (UGC), when the other is so liberal.

Let me use the example of the upcoming Pro Evolution Soccer 2008, since I've been following it quite closely. Pro Evo has always fallen behind FIFA in terms of licenses, which means that they don't have authentic team names and kits for many teams. That's where the Pro Evo community came in, creating Option files for PC and PS2 versions which could be imported into the game by users. The possibilities of Option files are endless, ranging from team names, stadium names, kit designs, team roster updates, etc. The editing aspect has always been a major part of the Pro Evo experience, and with the game coming out on both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 for the first time, this is one aspect where the Xbox 360 version can fall behind, depriving its users of this feature.

What makes it worse is that it's not that the Xbox 360 hardware doesn't allow for UGC for Pro Evo; it's just that Microsoft won't allow it. The way Option files work is that one person does all the hard work and then shares his Option file with the community. What Microsoft has said is that they won't allow this because on the Xbox 360, each Option file is stamped with the identity of the console on which it was created, and if they find that the same file is being used by multiple users, it will result in a ban for the person who created it.

I would think that this is something that Microsoft can easily avoid with a simple policy change. What makes it even worse for Xbox 360 owners is that the PC and PlayStation 3 versions of Pro Evo will support imported Option files. I'm sure that some bright minds in the Pro Evo community will find a work around to allow imported Option files on the Xbox 360 as well. But would it hurt Microsoft to allow it in the first place and not make its users feel like they're being policed?



peace

I ninja copyed this from Here click me!

Everyones thoughts ?

Why not just play the games and enjoy all consoles? why be a fanboy?OoSuperMarioO

If you look at the site were i got that post, its from a 360fanboy site...

Microsoft already stated that the fact that Xbox Live! is a closed network is what makes it so great.loky4000

So u miss out alot of stuff because its Closed ?

soo great means missing out User created content for u ?

Maybe it has something to do with this...

Hackers maybe

it if easy to make user generated content whats to stop viruses

[QUOTE="loky4000"]Microsoft already stated that the fact that Xbox Live! is a closed network is what makes it so great.naughtydog360

So u miss out alot of stuff because its Closed ?

soo great means missing out User created content for u ?

I get what i paid for, and I'm not a big fan of mods. Besides, the last thing I want on my HD is spyware and viruses.

Before I proceed, let me say - I don't want to make this about Xbox 360 vs PlayStation 3. But it's hard to imagine why one platform would be so restrictive in terms of user-generated content (UGC), when the other is so liberal.

Let me use the example of the upcoming Pro Evolution Soccer 2008, since I've been following it quite closely. Pro Evo has always fallen behind FIFA in terms of licenses, which means that they don't have authentic team names and kits for many teams. That's where the Pro Evo community came in, creating Option files for PC and PS2 versions which could be imported into the game by users. The possibilities of Option files are endless, ranging from team names, stadium names, kit designs, team roster updates, etc. The editing aspect has always been a major part of the Pro Evo experience, and with the game coming out on both Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 for the first time, this is one aspect where the Xbox 360 version can fall behind, depriving its users of this feature.

What makes it worse is that it's not that the Xbox 360 hardware doesn't allow for UGC for Pro Evo; it's just that Microsoft won't allow it. The way Option files work is that one person does all the hard work and then shares his Option file with the community. What Microsoft has said is that they won't allow this because on the Xbox 360, each Option file is stamped with the identity of the console on which it was created, and if they find that the same file is being used by multiple users, it will result in a ban for the person who created it.

I would think that this is something that Microsoft can easily avoid with a simple policy change. What makes it even worse for Xbox 360 owners is that the PC and PlayStation 3 versions of Pro Evo will support imported Option files. I'm sure that some bright minds in the Pro Evo community will find a work around to allow imported Option files on the Xbox 360 as well. But would it hurt Microsoft to allow it in the first place and not make its users feel like they're being policed?



peace

I ninja copyed this from Here click me!

Everyones thoughts ?

naughtydog360

Microsoft does allow this in a fashion. Look at Halo 3 and its Forge option. It allows you to edit maps and create game types. These can then be uploaded to the bungie servers for sharing with others. It isn't microsoft saying "no", matter of fact they have stated that such was possible, but most developers have not approached them about it.Lordcharles

Exactly. There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks. Halo 3 does it very well. So does GRAW and Rainbow Six.

Hackers maybe

it if easy to make user generated content whats to stop virusesonewiththegame

How do you people come up with this stuff?...So friggin' paranoid.

I've NEVER encountered a virus embedded in user-created content. What motive would drive a mod creator to package malware with user-created content they've spent tons of time on?

And how exactly is someone going to write a virus for a CONSOLE? When you aren't even allowed access to executable code?

There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks.VoodooHak

How would a typical implementation of allowing user-created content also allow for hacks?... :|

User-Generated content = Sexual Content.:!

That is a big no no.

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks.Velocitas8

How would a typical implementation of allowing user-created content also allow for hacks?... :|

Remember these are console fanboys. If they knew how good mods on the pc where, they wouldn't get a console to begin with.... Console fanboys have obviously never installed a mod before.

[QUOTE="Lordcharles"]Microsoft does allow this in a fashion. Look at Halo 3 and its Forge option. It allows you to edit maps and create game types. These can then be uploaded to the bungie servers for sharing with others. It isn't microsoft saying "no", matter of fact they have stated that such was possible, but most developers have not approached them about it.VoodooHak

Exactly. There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks. Halo 3 does it very well. So does GRAW and Rainbow Six.

maybe im missing sumthing but my PS3 doesnt have viruses or spyware, or wat not. So whats all this talk about viruses and hacks?

There are a few reasons, but I don't like them.

One has to do with legal liability. If Microsoft runs the network, it is (or could be seen as) responsible for the content put on that network. If things like sexual content or offensive stuff get onto the network, Microsoft doesn't want to be held legally liable. I think there are plenty of ways to avoid that without shutting out content altogether, though.

The more likely reason, as someone mentioned earlier, is that Microsoft wants people paying for DLC when possible, as they presumably get some cut of all transactions. Certain elements of the closed network (such as being unable to import your own gamerpic) exist solely to facilitate certain purchases. I think this is rather foolish too, but it's more likely.

[QUOTE="onewiththegame"]

Hackers maybe

it if easy to make user generated content whats to stop virusesVelocitas8

How do you people come up with this stuff?...So friggin' paranoid.

I've NEVER encountered a virus embedded in user-created content. What motive would drive a mod creator to package malware with user-created content they've spent tons of time on?

And how exactly is someone going to write a virus for a CONSOLE? When you aren't even allowed access to executable code?

There are a few reasons, but I don't like them.

One has to do with legal liability. If Microsoft runs the network, it is (or could be seen as) responsible for the content put on that network. If things like sexual content or offensive stuff get onto the network, Microsoft doesn't want to be held legally liable. I think there are plenty of ways to avoid that without shutting out content altogether, though.

The more likely reason, as someone mentioned earlier, is that Microsoft wants people paying for DLC when possible, as they presumably get some cut of all transactions. Certain elements of the closed network (such as being unable to import your own gamerpic) exist solely to facilitate certain purchases. I think this is rather foolish too, but it's more likely.

sonicmj1

As for the first reason, with XBL being a closed network, uploaded content could be removed at the discretion of Microsoft. Or better yet, a system of content approval (prior to being available for download) could be implemented, though something like that would cost a bit of money to maintain.

The second reason is definitely more likely to be the case. Microsoft doesn't want their microtransaction aspect of their business model to be compromised.

I don't think you get the point. The issue isn't viruses, the issue is exploiting vulnerabilities in the game code responsible for parsing the user-created data to smash the execution stack and from there make an attempt to inline patch the firmware so that the console can be used from then on out to play pirated games or unsigned code.ReverieDLM

Pfft. That's already being done through other means. Not only is the incentive for hackers not there, but an implementation of user-created content doesn't even have to allow for such vulnerabilities.

The console side of the PES update community has never relied on downloadable content. Users get their hands on the update files through private sellers, usually on eBay. So a lot of the time you aren't just paying for the file, you're paying for an actual USB memory stick or PS2 memory card with the file on it, or in some cases the seller's "service" of transferring the file onto your card for you. And since the 360 has USB slots, user generated updates will work exactly the same as they always have on PS2.

[QUOTE="ReverieDLM"]I don't think you get the point. The issue isn't viruses, the issue is exploiting vulnerabilities in the game code responsible for parsing the user-created data to smash the execution stack and from there make an attempt to inline patch the firmware so that the console can be used from then on out to play pirated games or unsigned code.Velocitas8

Pfft. That's already being done through other means. Not only is the incentive for hackers not there, but an implementation of user-created content doesn't even have to allow for such vulnerabilities.

Actually, there is currently no way to execute unsigned code on the 360. At one point, a security researcher figured out a way to do it, but it was patched before it was ever made public. There are hardware failsafes in place on the console that make using the unpatched version impossible. There are firmware hacks for the DVD-ROM drive which allow running copied (note, still signed) discs, but they are non-trivial to execute. A gamesave hack would be far superior if someone could figure out how to do it.ReverieDLM

they scared little kids will see sexual content. which i don't see what the big deal is when most kids play halo3 and gears of war.

[QUOTE="ReverieDLM"]Actually, there is currently no way to execute unsigned code on the 360. At one point, a security researcher figured out a way to do it, but it was patched before it was ever made public. There are hardware failsafes in place on the console that make using the unpatched version impossible. There are firmware hacks for the DVD-ROM drive which allow running copied (note, still signed) discs, but they are non-trivial to execute. A gamesave hack would be far superior if someone could figure out how to do it.Velocitas8

User generated content, ranging from small scripts to edit aspects of gameplay, to new maps and weapons, to even full new mods that add the content of a full new game.

Hundreds of hours have been added to the value of already amazing games, and users have thought of creative mods and incredible new gameplay types that the original developers never thought of.

Xbox Live has its limitations... It has some good games, but the service itself is archaic and does not warrent any monthly fee. There is absolutely NO reason that you should pay for XBL, when the only thing you're paying for is PLAYING games, and all playing is done P2P, meaning that there is no expense to Microsoft.

So you're paying 5$ a month for a service that is more basic than its competition (except Wii online, thats even more basic), and that doesnt cost ANYTHING.

I am glad to pay for my XBL, because of the games, but I acknowledge that I am paying for nothing that shouldnt be free.

Xbox Live has its limitations... It has some good games, but the service itself is archaic and does not warrent any monthly fee. There is absolutely NO reason that you should pay for XBL, when the only thing you're paying for is PLAYING games, and all playing is done P2P, meaning that there is no expense to Microsoft.

Big_Red_Button

Um... 0.o cause MS dont wanna get sued if someone like make Simpson's mods. Which Fox can sue them for some kid posting that mod. IP rights. Its like if someone could make a Heavenly sword skin of nariko and put it in Gears Of war.... XDHitamaru-homia

So from what your saying, Sony is going to get sued because it has a open Network.

Omg Why the hell isnt the PC sued all these years because of open content ?

[QUOTE="Big_Red_Button"]

Xbox Live has its limitations... It has some good games, but the service itself is archaic and does not warrent any monthly fee. There is absolutely NO reason that you should pay for XBL, when the only thing you're paying for is PLAYING games, and all playing is done P2P, meaning that there is no expense to Microsoft.

ReverieDLM

You do know with the PSN, PS3 Exclusives Cough*Warhawk*Cough are having dedicated servers for free ? gg

Your paying for a servies which lets games only use P2P and while we pay nothing for dedicated servers for games ;)

If you want live hacked and virsused like PSN then lets all just bend over and let the h4x flood in.hongkingkong

You probebly didnt read what the dude above you said

" maybe im missing sumthing but my PS3 doesnt have viruses or spyware, or wat not. So whats all this talk about viruses and hacks? "

The PSN doesnt have Viruses, spyware, Maleeware, hacks...

ROFL PSN has a Open Network and its still hackers are finding it impossible to hack the PS3 For Priated games. But for the X360, its allready been hacked and most of my friends incuding myself are using Priated games for $7 Each..

[QUOTE="Velocitas8"]

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks._Pedro_

How would a typical implementation of allowing user-created content also allow for hacks?... :|

Remember these are console fanboys. If they knew how good mods on the pc where, they wouldn't get a console to begin with.... Console fanboys have obviously never installed a mod before.

Hopefully well get a game that can allow us creat modes just like Warcraft 3 (lovaaa) :D

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="Lordcharles"]Microsoft does allow this in a fashion. Look at Halo 3 and its Forge option. It allows you to edit maps and create game types. These can then be uploaded to the bungie servers for sharing with others. It isn't microsoft saying "no", matter of fact they have stated that such was possible, but most developers have not approached them about it.-Serpahim-

Exactly. There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks. Halo 3 does it very well. So does GRAW and Rainbow Six.

maybe im missing sumthing but my PS3 doesnt have viruses or spyware, or wat not. So whats all this talk about viruses and hacks?

I'm not talking about hacks in terms of viruses. By hack, I mean reverse engineering code to create something unique. That's not necessarily a bad thing. My point is... why leave yourself open when there are other ways to offer user created options that can create experiences?

[QUOTE="-Serpahim-"][QUOTE="VoodooHak"]

[QUOTE="Lordcharles"]Microsoft does allow this in a fashion. Look at Halo 3 and its Forge option. It allows you to edit maps and create game types. These can then be uploaded to the bungie servers for sharing with others. It isn't microsoft saying "no", matter of fact they have stated that such was possible, but most developers have not approached them about it.VoodooHak

Exactly. There are other ways to give players options other than letting them run amok with hacks. Halo 3 does it very well. So does GRAW and Rainbow Six.

maybe im missing sumthing but my PS3 doesnt have viruses or spyware, or wat not. So whats all this talk about viruses and hacks?

I'm not talking about hacks in terms of viruses. By hack, I mean reverse engineering code to create something unique. That's not necessarily a bad thing. My point is... why leave yourself open when there are other ways to offer user created options that can create experiences?

So how is PC gaming living all these times ?

How has UT2 lived ?

how has Warcraft 3 Lived with all those mods ?

simple user-generated like mods=hacking or viruses/crashing from software, atm that doesn't happen from things like halo 3's forge which is just gret but its no unreal engine...ps3 only gets to use unreal enigne mods so i see no biggy because the good ones will come to 360 like epic said or should i say mark rein said.Titus_WoWplayer

Those Famous Mods might come at a price for the 360 ;)

good luck on that

So how is PC gaming living all these times ?

How has UT2 lived ?

how has Warcraft 3 Lived with all those mods ?

naughtydog360

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "lived"?

[QUOTE="Titus_WoWplayer"]simple user-generated like mods=hacking or viruses/crashing from software, atm that doesn't happen from things like halo 3's forge which is just gret but its no unreal engine...ps3 only gets to use unreal enigne mods so i see no biggy because the good ones will come to 360 like epic said or should i say mark rein said.naughtydog360

Those Famous Mods might come at a price for the 360 ;)

good luck on that

There is XBL policy that if content is available on another platform for free, MS will not charge for it.

[QUOTE="naughtydog360"]

So how is PC gaming living all these times ?

How has UT2 lived ?

how has Warcraft 3 Lived with all those mods ?

VoodooHak

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "lived"?

In other words how have they lasted without getting ***** by hacks and cracks

[QUOTE="VoodooHak"][QUOTE="naughtydog360"]

So how is PC gaming living all these times ?

How has UT2 lived ?

how has Warcraft 3 Lived with all those mods ?

naughtydog360

I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "lived"?

In other words how have they lasted without getting ***** by hacks and cracks

I thought I clarified in my previous post.... I'm not referring to hacks as viruses. And I'm not saying that modding is a bad thing.

You have to understand that XBL is a closed network. And that there are other ways to allow for a customized experience. Halo 3, again is a prime example. And I think this is a trend that we'll see continue.

You do know with the PSN, PS3 Exclusives Cough*Warhawk*Cough are having dedicated servers for free ? gg

Your paying for a servies which lets games only use P2P and while we pay nothing for dedicated servers for games ;)

naughtydog360