Who is really holding the industry back?

Is it consoles? Casuals? Publishers? Devs? Outdated hardware? Gaming sites and zines? Fanbases?

Discuss.

Fanboys, and hype.

I don't really have a good answer to that question. I do think that design philosophy is losing out to other superficial things however. Not to say that games are poorly designed now a days, they are still just as well done and often better but a lot of the care and detail now doesn't seem to be there as much. I think the console model is broken also, I think it needs to change.

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

Forgot to add: pirates and non-gamers :P

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

DarkLink77

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

Publishers more than anything. Developers/Fanbases have an equal share as well though...

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

ActicEdge

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

ActicEdge

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

I don't think he meant sheep as in SW sheep! I think he was more so talking about those people who prove that effective marketing has more to do with the success of a game or console rather than how good it is.

If anything's holding it back, it's probably piracy and annual rehashes.

Budgets.

Large budget game = low risk. You wouldn't try something really unique with a 20 million dollar budget.

We are seeing an increase in PSN. XBLA, and PC indie games because of this. They seem to be more unique and innovative that most of the big budget titles.

Last gen game budgets weren't nearly as large as our expectations for quality weren't as hard. A game today needs to have certain production standards to be pasable by audiences and that costs money. It's much more difficult for a publisher to invest in a game that has some really unique stuff going on and could be a massive flop gameplay wise.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

Espada12

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

I don't think he meant sheep as in SW sheep! I think he was more so talking about those people who prove that effective marketing has more to do with the success of a game or console rather than how good it is.

I know he didn't mean sheep literally :P

I meant that its ridiculous to apply an indiividual standard of good and bad to everyone. I also think the idea that people who buy things off hype are a problem is ridiculous. Again, they aren't buying to impress anyone, who are you to tell them they are wasting money or that how they judge "worth a purchase" is wrong? I think the mentality that you have the right to judge how other people spend their money that they go out and work their asses off foris really shallow.

In what way is the industry being held back?IronBass

Lack of risk taking by major devs and publishers?

[QUOTE="IronBass"]In what way is the industry being held back?Espada12

Lack of risk taking by major devs and publishers?

But that's not the case.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

ActicEdge

I don't think he meant sheep as in SW sheep! I think he was more so talking about those people who prove that effective marketing has more to do with the success of a game or console rather than how good it is.

I know he didn't mean sheep literally :P

I meant that its ridiculous to apply an indiividual standard of good and bad to everyone. I also think the idea that people who buy things off hype are a problem is ridiculous. Again, they aren't buying to impress anyone, who are you to tell them they are wasting money or that how they judge "worth a purchase" is wrong? I think the mentality that you have the right to judge how other people spend their money that they go out and work their asses off foris really shallow.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Stupid developers and greedy publishers. Oh, and the sheep that buy bad games because of the hype.

DarkLink77

Are you actually trying to tell people that their taste should be defined by what you think is good and not on what they like? Are you trying to tell me how to spend my money?

This applies to every industry. That said who's to say they didn't enjoy their buy? Who's to say they have expectations as high as you? who's to say they care for gaming enough to follow news and look at reviews? Who's to say that want to take the opinion of some forum or website into account? Who's to say that they justwant to see what all the hype is about? Is there anything wrong with that? You're simplifying and its extremely bad.

Budget

Budget because it costs more to develop games this gen so most developers aren't taking a risk the only ones that are taking risks are indie developers or developers for handheld systems.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

I don't think he meant sheep as in SW sheep! I think he was more so talking about those people who prove that effective marketing has more to do with the success of a game or console rather than how good it is.

DarkLink77

I know he didn't mean sheep literally :P

I meant that its ridiculous to apply an indiividual standard of good and bad to everyone. I also think the idea that people who buy things off hype are a problem is ridiculous. Again, they aren't buying to impress anyone, who are you to tell them they are wasting money or that how they judge "worth a purchase" is wrong? I think the mentality that you have the right to judge how other people spend their money that they go out and work their asses off foris really shallow.

You're entitled to that thought (even if its extremely flawed) but you should probably explain to me how its bad for the industry. Right now your explanation is just noise, why is this bad again?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="IronBass"]In what way is the industry being held back?IronBass

Lack of risk taking by major devs and publishers?

I am not saying that innovation = teh better, I've always argued against that, but no one but indie devs are taking risks and not only that, the bigger devs are being forced by publishers to make their games similar to the top selling ones. It is honestly making gaming quite a bit stale in that regard. Though I still have fun with them I can't shake the been there done that feel with alot of games.

Budget

Budget because it costs more to develop games this gen so most developers aren't taking a risk the only ones that are taking risks are indie developers or developers for handheld systems.

Nintendo_Ownes7

Exactly what I said. It's unfortunate, but we've set standards for video games that are difficult to meet with smaller budgets.

However there are still games like Red Orchestra 2 on the way which go against the grain quite well.

Consoles have a lot of problems.

Casuals normally don't search up on games and buy simple games.

Publishers are greedy.

Devs are lazy.

Outdated hardware prevents games from looking better, which is why I game on PC.

Gaming journalism is laughable these days and have some contradictions.

Fanbases whine too much.

Fanboys are selfish.

Hype makes games better than they should be when a lot of them don't live up to the hype.

Budgets affect the success of certain games.

DLC is a rip off half the time, just an excuse to take stuff out and charge later.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

I know he didn't mean sheep literally :P

I meant that its ridiculous to apply an indiividual standard of good and bad to everyone. I also think the idea that people who buy things off hype are a problem is ridiculous. Again, they aren't buying to impress anyone, who are you to tell them they are wasting money or that how they judge "worth a purchase" is wrong? I think the mentality that you have the right to judge how other people spend their money that they go out and work their asses off foris really shallow.

ActicEdge

You're entitled to that thought (even if its extremely flawed) but you should probably explain to me how its bad for the industry. Right now your explanation is just noise, why is this bad again?

To everyone saying budgeting, how do you propose that this issue is fixed. You want to reduce budget you need to reduce work load and that means you need to make games easier to build. You can't make something easier to build if technology is pushing forward and everyone wants to out do each other.

I am not saying that innovation = teh better, I've always argued against that, but no one but indie devs are taking risks and not only that, the bigger devs are being forced by publishers to make their games similar to the top selling ones. It is honestly making gaming quite a bit stale in that regard. Though I still have fun with them I can't shake the been there done that feel with alot of games.Espada12

That's nothing new. Developers trying to make games similar to the most popular ones have existed since the beginning of gaming.

On that regard, gaming has moved forward a lot this gen thanks to the increasing popularity of indie games and cheaper platforms to develop for like XBLA/PSN/WiiWare/AppStore, etc.

To everyone saying budgeting, how do you propose that this issue is fixed. You want to reduce budget you need to reduce work load and that means you need to make games easier to build. You can't make something easier to build if technology is pushing forward and everyone wants to out do each other.

ActicEdge

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They're entitled to spend their money however they want, and I'm entitled to think that the fact that they only buy annual franchises that are being cloned left and right to make a quick buck because that's what sells is bad for the industry.DarkLink77

You're entitled to that thought (even if its extremely flawed) but you should probably explain to me how its bad for the industry. Right now your explanation is just noise, why is this bad again?

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] They're entitled to spend their money however they want, and I'm entitled to think that the fact that they only buy annual franchises that are being cloned left and right to make a quick buck because that's what sells is bad for the industry.DarkLink77

You're entitled to that thought (even if its extremely flawed) but you should probably explain to me how its bad for the industry. Right now your explanation is just noise, why is this bad again?

Yes. Last time I checked franchises rise and fall all the time and mediocore cash in games have existed far longer then COD has. Yet in the SNES days and even PS1 I would hardly say this industry was heading for stormy seas.

Make smaller, downloadable games? Make retro style games? Those games can still be amazing and not break the bank.DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]Make smaller, downloadable games? Make retro style games? Those games can still be amazing and not break the bank.IronBass

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]Make smaller, downloadable games? Make retro style games? Those games can still be amazing and not break the bank.IronBass

I feel like if there is one problem with this industry its that its difficult to allow anyone willing to buy a game have the ability to do so. That's my biggest issue. I think games cost too much money (and yeah I know they use to be even more expesive but in the same notion the market did grow when games became cheaper whether that is a linear correlation or not remains to be seen) both to make and to buy.

You'll notice I didn't say budget was the problem. I was just answering a question.DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

You're entitled to that thought (even if its extremely flawed) but you should probably explain to me how its bad for the industry. Right now your explanation is just noise, why is this bad again?

i5750at4Ghz

Lack of variety is bad for gamers in general, I don't care what you enjoy. Everything being the same is not good.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

To everyone saying budgeting, how do you propose that this issue is fixed. You want to reduce budget you need to reduce work load and that means you need to make games easier to build. You can't make something easier to build if technology is pushing forward and everyone wants to out do each other.

DarkLink77

I love retro style games and smaller games but really, I know people aren't going to be satisfied just playing smaller games forever. I'm talking about a solution to reduce budget while keepinggames moving forward in technology. (I actually don't care for this route but this has been pushed by SW so I want a SW answer)

Fanboyism, hype, review scores, trends, commercialism, pirates, hackers, dlc, corporate greed, bias, racism, capitalism, elitism, ignorance, lack of broadband growth, national economies, and so on.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I have to explain why the flood of mediocre, cash-in shooters and franchises losing their identity to be just like Call of Duty (and that's just one example) is a bad thing?DarkLink77

Lack of variety is bad for gamers in general, I don't care what you enjoy. Everything being the same is not good.

Since when is everything the same? Since when is there a lack of variety in games? You're simply talking about games taking features from other popular games. Which is a smart thing to do.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

To everyone saying budgeting, how do you propose that this issue is fixed. You want to reduce budget you need to reduce work load and that means you need to make games easier to build. You can't make something easier to build if technology is pushing forward and everyone wants to out do each other.

ActicEdge

I love retro style games and smaller games but really, I know people aren't going to be satisfied just playing smaller games forever. I'm talking about a solution to reduce budget while keepinggames moving forward in technology. (I actually don't care for this route but this has been pushed by SW so I want a SW answer)

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"] Considering the vast majority of gamers enjoy COD, yeah you do. Bad for you != bad for gamers in general.i5750at4Ghz

Lack of variety is bad for gamers in general, I don't care what you enjoy. Everything being the same is not good.

Since when is everything the same? Since when is there a lack of variety in games? You're simply talking about games taking features from other popular games. Which is a smart thing to do.

[QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Make smaller, downloadable games? Make retro style games? Those games can still be amazing and not break the bank.DarkLink77

I love retro style games and smaller games but really, I know people aren't going to be satisfied just playing smaller games forever. I'm talking about a solution to reduce budget while keepinggames moving forward in technology. (I actually don't care for this route but this has been pushed by SW so I want a SW answer)

Fair enough, I think its an issue, I think that if games weren't so expensive to make, they could be sold for cheaper and the market could be expanded. I'd buy a lot of games at $30, I won't buy many games at a $60 price point.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="ActicEdge"]

I love retro style games and smaller games but really, I know people aren't going to be satisfied just playing smaller games forever. I'm talking about a solution to reduce budget while keepinggames moving forward in technology. (I actually don't care for this route but this has been pushed by SW so I want a SW answer)

ActicEdge

Fair enough, I think its an issue, I think that if games weren't so expensive to make, they could be sold for cheaper and the market could be expanded. I'd buy a lot of games at $30, I won't buy many games at a $60 price point.

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Lack of variety is bad for gamers in general, I don't care what you enjoy. Everything being the same is not good.

DarkLink77

Since when is everything the same? Since when is there a lack of variety in games? You're simply talking about games taking features from other popular games. Which is a smart thing to do.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"]

Since when is everything the same? Since when is there a lack of variety in games? You're simply talking about games taking features from other popular games. Which is a smart thing to do.

i5750at4Ghz

[QUOTE="i5750at4Ghz"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] I have to explain why the flood of mediocre, cash-in shooters and franchises losing their identity to be just like Call of Duty (and that's just one example) is a bad thing?DarkLink77

Lack of variety is bad for gamers in general, I don't care what you enjoy. Everything being the same is not good.

what about during the NES/SNES era when 2d platformers ruled the gaming industry? was the industry being held back then? seems we came out of that ok...

this is no different.