Ten sins in gaming design??

List of gaming sins

Here's one person's take on ten sins of game desgin according them. I think even regardless of the list that it's an interesting topic. Fight away! :P

Lol exploding barrels don't bug me because you can use them to your advantage a lot. Invisible walls....jury's out on that one ;)

+Exploding barrelsk04sm02

[QUOTE="Badosh"]2-9 i motly agree with. 1. i like escort missions if they are done right. 10. Totally depends on the game, if you're not supposed to have tons of ammo, eh.k04sm02

Escort missions - They aren't a sin when done right. Its a sin when its done WoW style when they're escorting you and walk slower than a snail. When in WoW you escort them then its good.

Terrible Checkpoints - I agree. Let me save whenever I want.

Worthless AI companions - I agree here too. RE5 was DUMB****.

Endlessly Respawning Enemies - MW1/Black Ops anyone?

Take This Weapon - Unless its an uber-secret or powerful one, tis a sin. I picked up a BFG from the previous level that'd oblierate the boss easily. Yet they think I need a crappy little machine gun with little ammo.

Poor Camera - :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil: Rightfully a sin

Indistinguishable Enemies and Allys - Good when intentional, terrible when the game testers didn't note this.

No Continues = Start over = HOW DARE THEY! SIN SIN SIN!

Broken Controls = Sonic 06 anyone?

Where is the ammo? Good when surviving, terrible sin otherwise. IE: Dead Space and Metro 2033. I say Metro because ammo sucks in the first place and enemies seem too powerful for what they should be...or hits no registering.

Escort missions - They aren't a sin when done right. Its a sin when its done WoW style when they're escorting you and walk slower than a snail. When in WoW you escort them then its good.

Terrible Checkpoints - I agree. Let me save whenever I want.

Worthless AI companions - I agree here too. RE5 was DUMB****.

Endlessly Respawning Enemies - MW1/Black Ops anyone?

Take This Weapon - Unless its an uber-secret or powerful one, tis a sin. I picked up a BFG from the previous level that'd oblierate the boss easily. Yet they think I need a crappy little machine gun with little ammo.

Poor Camera - :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil: Rightfully a sin

Indistinguishable Enemies and Allys - Good when intentional, terrible when the game testers didn't note this.

No Continues = Start over = HOW DARE THEY! SIN SIN SIN!

Broken Controls = Sonic 06 anyone?

Where is the ammo? Good when surviving, terrible sin otherwise. IE: Dead Space and Metro 2033. I say Metro because ammo sucks in the first place and enemies seem too powerful for what they should be...or hits no registering.

ChubbyGuy40

Haha! you summed up my feeling on "Take this weapon" and "No Continues" perfectly.

Haha! you summed up my feeling on "Take this weapon" and "No Continues" perfectly.

Darth-Samus

Besides flat out broken games/controls, nothing makes me as mad as No continues.

Oh ya and INVISIBLE WALLS. FU INVISIBLE WALLS!

I dont know what all the sins of game design are... but they are all present in FFXIII.

Agreed on pretty much everything.

Throw in Quick-Time Events.

Whoever thought of that needs to be shot.

Besides the ammo one and Resident Evil as a shooter, solid list.

Escort missions: The escort quests in WoW were downright awful, awful, awful, awful. They really detracted the leveling experience for me.
Terrible Checkpoints: I dont like it when checkpoints are too spread out, I also dont like it when checkpoints are way too abundant. Right now, I feel check points are way too abundant in most games.
Worthless AI companions: My companions in Mass Effect 2 were absolutely worthless, I just kept them around for their powers.
Endlessly Respawning Enemies: This can work in some situations, but in many cases it is best if avoided.
Take This Weapon: Cant say I have had much of an experience with this. So it is not on my list.
Poor Camera: Camera gets stuck in a wall... nice. Agreed.
Indistinguishable Enemies and Allies: Sometims this can work, but usually it is a bad thing.
No Continues = Start over: Some games would be way too easy with continues. Imagine a roguelike with extra lives and continues.
Broken Controls: Broken controls can really break gameplay. Clunky, unresponsive and not using the control scheme's strengths (gamepad/wiimote/kbm) really bug me.
Where is the ammo?: It can add the strategy of ammo conservation. This dephends on the context of the game.

Since there are 2 I disagree with I will add 2 of my own.

Dialog Wheel: Worst addition to the RPG genre imo, I really hope that this system gets ditched soon.
Excessive Handholding: As long as there is a way to turn it off, fine, but dont shove it in my face. I like to solve the game myself, not have the game solve the problems for me.

If there is one point i would like to add it would be the 100ish of collectibles you can find in some games. I don't mind them in linear games and in a modest number like the medallions in RE5 which at least gives you a hint at how many you got per level, but take a look at Assassins Creed's collectible system, in AC2 i do believe there is something like 175 in total, in different heights, scattered across 3 different cities (with two of them being pretty darn large) and you can only move around on foot. To make it even worse, they can't be spotted a mile away like in crackdown, and have a habit of being on widely different elevations, and in alleys. I don't what other people think, but i seriously think Ubisoft should figure out a better way to keep playing after the main story line other than collecting flags.

they forgot crappy stealth missons with no checkpoints ( you are detected you start over )

and helis with short or no reload and have infinite ammo

I must say the sins are all true apart from 1. Namely ammo, well if you have to conserve it it can be quite challenging.

But what i have to add

1. Non-customizable controls. Meaning you have to use the keys they wanted, complete horror.

2. Difficult exits. Who hasn't run around endlessly through the same corridor, hallway , map over and over again just to find a bloody door.

3. Vague objective combined with a big map and slow walking. Go for it, you don't know where you need to be, the map is huge, you've already ran through it a dozen times and snails are passing ya. Depressing, especially combined with the respawning enemies.

4. Invisible Walls , i know they said it and i say it again.

5. Bugs, i simply hate them, no insectokill here though.

6. False hope, speaking of dragons and never one comes, speaking of bosses and never one comes.

7. Rushed ending, the whole game builds up to a climax only there's none. Suddenly the credits roll and you just keep staring at the names in disbelief.

8. Uncoherent game. A game where it feels like they just put two and two together just to get enough content and you just wonder why you did this and that.

9. Overly repeating: Overly repeating textures, enemies, bosses, gameplay in a single player game. You feel cheated.

10. Joystick push on the pc. You can't play the game without a joystick...

11. Cheesy sequences: Suddenly you're like in a family film, cut the emo-crap.

12. Undestroyable fragile objects. You are shooting on a glass or bottle and it doesn't move nor break. Don't put em there then...

13. No jump or mount: A bit like the invisable walls issue, you encouter a log or wall half your height and you can't jump or mount it. It blocks your way.

14. Iron head , you shoot a guy right between the eyes with a magmum .44 and he keeps running around and shooting at you.

15. Bad copycat. Copying good stuff from another game and making it bad.

I could think of more but for now i'm out

Escort missions: The escort quests in WoW were downright awful, awful, awful, awful. They really detracted the leveling experience for me.
Terrible Checkpoints: I dont like it when checkpoints are too spread out, I also dont like it when checkpoints are way too abundant. Right now, I feel check points are way too abundant in most games.
Worthless AI companions: My companions in Mass Effect 2 were absolutely worthless, I just kept them around for their powers.
Endlessly Respawning Enemies: This can work in some situations, but in many cases it is best if avoided.
Take This Weapon: Cant say I have had much of an experience with this. So it is not on my list.
Poor Camera: Camera gets stuck in a wall... nice. Agreed.
Indistinguishable Enemies and Allies: Sometims this can work, but usually it is a bad thing.
No Continues = Start over: Some games would be way too easy with continues. Imagine a roguelike with extra lives and continues.
Broken Controls: Broken controls can really break gameplay. Clunky, unresponsive and not using the control scheme's strengths (gamepad/wiimote/kbm) really bug me.
Where is the ammo?: It can add the strategy of ammo conservation. This dephends on the context of the game.

Since there are 2 I disagree with I will add 2 of my own.

Dialog Wheel: Worst addition to the RPG genre imo, I really hope that this system gets ditched soon.
Excessive Handholding: As long as there is a way to turn it off, fine, but dont shove it in my face. I like to solve the game myself, not have the game solve the problems for me.

Maroxad

Hmm I think i see what you're saying about the dialogue wheel. Although....i must say i like it. The handholding thing is for sure. I totally agree. Get your text off of my screen!! lol

"take this weapon" reminds me of KZ2. I had the big electric gun that was really awesome, then had to use an assault rifle right after because i wasnt allowed to use it. :evil:

Hmm I think i see what you're saying about the dialogue wheel. Although....i must say i like it. The handholding thing is for sure. I totally agree. Get your text off of my screen!! lol

Darth-Samus

The conversation wheel is allows for a more cinematic experience. Unfortunately for me, I am against cinematic gameplay and I like being able to know what my character says before he actually says it.

I am for handholding as long as you can turn it off. Examples of this is Super Guide in Nintendo games and hint system in Metroid Prime. That way the less dedicated gamers can get through the game easier while I can play unbothered by handholding, its win/win :). If you cant turn it off, which some games don't, what you said is exactly what I think. My leveling buddy in WoW used a leveling guide which he followed STRICTLY, this was our first characters through Cataclysm. It really made levelling a lot less enjoyable than it should have been. We ended up splitting up, simply because of such strong opposing opinions of the guide.

WORTHLESS A.I. COMPANIONS

got to be the worst for me at least

• Unskippable cut scenes. I hate this ecpecially when it's a really long cutscene in a game you've all ready beaten.
• Bad controls. I remember playing one part of Sonic '06 for 3 hours. All I had to do was get a ball down a hallway with Silvers psychic powers but the controls in this game were busted beyond belief so this became near impossible.
• Game ending bugs. I just borrowed Assassin's Creed brotherhood and I was doing one of the lairs of Romulus. I get to the very end where i'm supposed to kill this guy and he just freezes. I climb up to him and start attacking him but he can't be hit so I had to restart the mission over. Another example in this same game is when I was doing some mission. You had to dress up as a Roman soldier during some play to assassinate some guy. To do this you have to walk on top of a pile hay. I stand on top of the hay and then nothing happens. I can't move and the game is clearly not frozen but i cannot move so I again had to start the mission over.

"take this weapon" reminds me of KZ2. I had the big electric gun that was really awesome, then had to use an assault rifle right after because i wasnt allowed to use it. :evil:

quaappybla

LAAAAME haha. that's actually what I'm going through right now too and I thought the same thing.

Heartily disagree on the "limited ammo" thing.

As for the "Take this weapon" bit, I remember a video (review, I think) of a terrible game called "Terrawars," where a character says something like "take this [very specific and not-at-all-concise weapon name]."

There's just one sin in gaming design: forgetting that design is law!

[QUOTE="quaappybla"]

"take this weapon" reminds me of KZ2. I had the big electric gun that was really awesome, then had to use an assault rifle right after because i wasnt allowed to use it. :evil:

Darth-Samus

LAAAAME haha. that's actually what I'm going through right now too and I thought the same thing.

True. Another variant of that is the "loose all your weapons" nonsense. Finally got a cool weapon. But, oh, wait. The story of the game makes you go into a tight tunnel and guess what, only you and your pistol fit. You loose all your weapons, bye bye cool weapon. Annoying.:x

I agree these things are horrible but I wonder why he showed a pic of flaghrah from metroid prime to describe endlessly respawning enimies? what does that have to do with that?

Wow, a list I can agree on.

[QUOTE="Darth-Samus"]

Hmm I think i see what you're saying about the dialogue wheel. Although....i must say i like it. The handholding thing is for sure. I totally agree. Get your text off of my screen!! lol

Maroxad

The conversation wheel is allows for a more cinematic experience. Unfortunately for me, I am against cinematic gameplay and I like being able to know what my character says before he actually says it.

I am for handholding as long as you can turn it off. Examples of this is Super Guide in Nintendo games and hint system in Metroid Prime. That way the less dedicated gamers can get through the game easier while I can play unbothered by handholding, its win/win :). If you cant turn it off, which some games don't, what you said is exactly what I think. My leveling buddy in WoW used a leveling guide which he followed STRICTLY, this was our first characters through Cataclysm. It really made levelling a lot less enjoyable than it should have been. We ended up splitting up, simply because of such strong opposing opinions of the guide.

I wouldn't consider it a sin but just something no developer had ever put any thought into, which is an actual difficulty scaling. 99% of the time different difficulties just means enemies have more health, you have less, and hence you die faster. I can never understand why developers have never actually advanced enemy AIs over the years and tune them to a point where different difficulties actually means you're playing dumber or smarter AIs, and not just scripted health differences. Killzone 2 was a good attempt at smart AIs, but honestly its still not there yet.

lol what does this world know about sin.

I agree these things are horrible but I wonder why he showed a pic of flaghrah from metroid prime to describe endlessly respawning enimies? what does that have to do with that?

theuncharted34

More a reference to the game I think than the boss. Cause in the Prime games enemies always respawn whenever you go back into a room you know? No matter how many times you kill them.

Escort missions - They aren't a sin when done right. Its a sin when its done WoW style when they're escorting you and walk slower than a snail. When in WoW you escort them then its good.

Terrible Checkpoints - I agree. Let me save whenever I want.

Worthless AI companions - I agree here too. RE5 was DUMB****.

Endlessly Respawning Enemies - MW1/Black Ops anyone?

Take This Weapon - Unless its an uber-secret or powerful one, tis a sin. I picked up a BFG from the previous level that'd oblierate the boss easily. Yet they think I need a crappy little machine gun with little ammo.

Poor Camera - :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil: Rightfully a sin

Indistinguishable Enemies and Allys - Good when intentional, terrible when the game testers didn't note this.

No Continues = Start over = HOW DARE THEY! SIN SIN SIN!

Broken Controls = Sonic 06 anyone?

Where is the ammo? Good when surviving, terrible sin otherwise. IE: Dead Space and Metro 2033. I say Metro because ammo sucks in the first place and enemies seem too powerful for what they should be...or hits no registering.

ChubbyGuy40

There's just one sin in gaming design: forgetting that design is law!

RyuRanVII

I thought the design of Daikatana was actually pretty good. (At least most of) The problems with the game lie in the programming.

[QUOTE="Badosh"]2-9 i motly agree with. 1. i like escort missions if they are done right. 10. Totally depends on the game, if you're not supposed to have tons of ammo, eh.ExESGO

Did you guys read what the article said for the low ammo? It really kinda summed up that whole point.

And one game that for the most part got escort missions right I thought was RE4.

Lol exploding barrels don't bug me because you can use them to your advantage a lot. Invisible walls....jury's out on that one ;)

Darth-Samus

Yeah, exploding stuff is awesome. I got a kill on Cliffhanger in Reach last night when I was almost a dead because I shot an explosive canister and killed the guy.

No underwater levels?
Or random encounters every 2 steps...
Or grind/slower leveling as you progress...

No underwater levels?
Or random encounters every 2 steps...
Or grind/slower leveling as you progress...

KungfuKitten

Random encounters!!! I hate them!!!!!

Unskippable cutscenes.

just a list on the top of my head

unskippable cutscene

dialogue with voice over but you have to keep pressing a button for the conversation continues

no new game plus

not be able to repeate some part of a game: really suck to replay 15 hours of a game just to refight a boss

customizing a character: i understand for some games it's necessairy but for others it's really not. I usually put the default and proceed

silent protagonist: i hate them pure and simple

excessive grind: I don't get what's the point of redoing the same fight over and over and over again to reach a higher level. it only proves that you can win the same fight more then once

repetition to make a game longer then it needs to be

dull environment

weird control layout

cutscene where the character is 1000X more badass then he/she is in the game