Square Enix boss says FFXVI didnt meet sales expectations

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blaznwiipspman1

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#101 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16621 Posts

@kathaariancode: exactly what I'm saying. People will invest time and effort into something based on monetary return. If you're not going to make much money, then why would you put in the effort in the first place? So your example fails right away.

Another thing is that developers have ways to monetize their work without abusing free speech laws. On top of game sales, this also includes online services, ad revenue, micro transactions and more. See? You can make money without abusing the 1A. Someone can make a clone of your game, and I have no problem with that. Because that is what competition is about. The better product leads to consumers buying it.

Frankly its a travesty that these abomination of laws are leading to less competition, less diversity in games and less choice. One thing it is doing well is lining the wallets of fat cats like Bobby kotock, satya nadelle, and Jim crying.

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Chutebox

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#102 Chutebox  Online
Member since 2007 • 50716 Posts

What was the expecation?

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anon_fire

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#103 anon_fire
Member since 2009 • 63 Posts

How many units was Square Enix expecting to sell on PS5?

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KathaarianCode

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#104 KathaarianCode
Member since 2022 • 3527 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1: That's really one of the most stupid things I've ever seen someone saying.

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Pedro

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#105 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70663 Posts

@kathaariancode said:

@blaznwiipspman1: That's really one of the most stupid things I've ever seen someone saying.

It is a competition as of late.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#106 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16621 Posts

@kathaariancode: stupid is as stupid does my friend.

Back to the topic at hand, cows are rekkd.

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Last_Lap

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#107 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6877 Posts

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@last_lap: yep 100% serious. Government always picking winners and losers, stepping in where they shouldn't and even going as far as violating the constitution. The 1A is the most abused of all the ammendments. It's frankly disgusting how far the government and courts go to protect the business interests of the wealthy. I'm all for capitalism, without government stepping in.

I never understood why billion dollar companies need protection from the free market in the form of ip laws, trademarks, patents and all that nonsense. The way I see it, these companies and government are stealing from us. The right to free speech should be inviolable. And we see the problems that pop up when government steps in where they shouldn't.

It's not even just the patents and ip. Government steps in for every single industry. Housing is another great example, with the municipalities using zoning laws, minimum height, minimum parking rules. It's all a bunch of bs, all to enrich a few at the cost of manipulating the markets and screwing everyone else.

This has been how things have been done forever though, scumbags everywhere.

I currently don't have the energy to post anything else...I just can't.

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omegaMaster

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#108  Edited By omegaMaster
Member since 2017 • 3499 Posts

Haven't even bought it yet. Maybe in a few weeks time

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Jag85

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#109 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19689 Posts

Square Enix were also disappointed with Tomb Raider when it launched with 3M sales. That game went on to sell 11M.

If FF15 and Tomb Raider can leg it past 10M, then so can FF16. But it's too soon to say.

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Jag85

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#110  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19689 Posts

@rmpumper: Baldur's Gate 3 has been in early access since 2020. It took nearly 3 years to sell 2.5M copies. It's not a fair comparison to compare FF16's 1 week sales to BG3's nearly 3 years of sales.

Either way, you're correct that PC is a lucrative platform. Or more specifically, Steam. Square Enix screwed over FF7R by choosing Epic Store over Steam (but the Fortnite money probably made up for it). Hopefully, Square makes the right choice and goes with Steam this time for FF16.

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texasgoldrush

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#111 texasgoldrush
Member since 2003 • 14957 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@rmpumper: Baldur's Gate 3 has been in early access since 2020. It took nearly 3 years to sell 2.5M copies. It's not a fair comparison to compare FF16's 1 week sales to BG3's nearly 3 years of sales.

Either way, you're correct that PC is a lucrative platform. Or more specifically, Steam. Square Enix screwed over FF7R by choosing Epic Store over Steam (but the Fortnite money probably made up for it). Hopefully, Square makes the right choice and goes with Steam this time for FF16.

BGIII may very well be at more than 5 million sales. It is crushing FFXVI.

And now with a matching metascore to Tears of the Kingdom, BGIII walks to get its RPG OTY award.

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Last_Lap

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#112 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6877 Posts

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

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rmpumper

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#113  Edited By rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2154 Posts
@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

Might as well count all PS users instead of PS5 only then, because only a fraction of Steam users have the hardware to run BG3 anyway, which is like having a PS4 instead of PS5.

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Last_Lap

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#114 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6877 Posts

@rmpumper: A quick Google search says you only need a Nvidia GTX 97O (an 8yr old card) to play the game, and hardly any Hermits have that. What's the point of owning a PC then? Now who's moving the goal posts 🤣

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R4gn4r0k

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#115 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46718 Posts

@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

PC gaming is just a collection of a random bunch of niches. Claiming that 120m people are interested in playing CRPGs is borderline insanity.

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R4gn4r0k

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#116 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46718 Posts
@texasgoldrush said:
@Jag85 said:

@rmpumper: Baldur's Gate 3 has been in early access since 2020. It took nearly 3 years to sell 2.5M copies. It's not a fair comparison to compare FF16's 1 week sales to BG3's nearly 3 years of sales.

Either way, you're correct that PC is a lucrative platform. Or more specifically, Steam. Square Enix screwed over FF7R by choosing Epic Store over Steam (but the Fortnite money probably made up for it). Hopefully, Square makes the right choice and goes with Steam this time for FF16.

BGIII may very well be at more than 5 million sales. It is crushing FFXVI.

Good, I hope that Square Enix stops doing silly exclusives like these and starts to cry.

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Ballroompirate

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#117 Ballroompirate
Member since 2005 • 26695 Posts

@Pedro said:
@Ballroompirate said:

1. 3 million sales for 1 system is pretty damn good and I'm sure most devs wished their games would sell for over 3 million. But SE being drama queens they do what they do.

2. This is why most devs go multiplat, the chances of doing big sales increases drastically, like look at Hogwarts which made almost a billion dollars in sales and honestly I think the whole drama for that game did little to increase its sales and people bought it cause its Harry Potter. Then you look at BG3, already breaking sales for only being on PC but I'm sure Larian cant wait to get that fat check once its released on PS5 and you can bet MS is looking at their dumb policies so they can get BG3 ported on their console to get some green.

3 million on its own is great however this game was a high budget game which would need more sales to cover the cost.

Assuming this game took 300 million to make + marketing they are not even breaking even. Which going by what SE was hoping that it would sell no less than 4 million would net them only 279 million in $$$. So that tells me that ether FF16 was 200 million to make at most or SE wouldn't care for 21 million loss as much as they made it out to be.

or it was greatly over 300 million to make I've seen some people say they spent 700 million on this game which I doubt it cause whoever greenlit that in the board meeting probably shouldn't be in charge of spending.

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Jag85

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#118  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19689 Posts

@texasgoldrush:

I wouldn't be surprised if BG3 is at 5M by now. But again, 2.5M of that came from early access sales since 2020, which would mean 2.5M additional sales in launch week. That would be roughly on-par with FF16's 3M launch week. However, Steam has a much larger user base than PS5, so again not a fair comparison.

BG3 only has 11 reviews though, compared to TOTK's 145 reviews. BG3's MC score could very well decrease as more reviews come in. Either way, BG3 is certainly the favourite for RPG of the Year so far. The only challenger left is Starfield, which I doubt will score as high.

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Last_Lap

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#119 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6877 Posts

@R4gn4r0k said:
@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

PC gaming is just a collection of a random bunch of niches. Claiming that 120m people are interested in playing CRPGs is borderline insanity.

Where did I claim 120m people are interested in playing CRPG's?

It seems you put 2 and 2 together and got 5 🤣

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rmpumper

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#120 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2154 Posts

@last_lap said:
@R4gn4r0k said:
@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

PC gaming is just a collection of a random bunch of niches. Claiming that 120m people are interested in playing CRPGs is borderline insanity.

Where did I claim 120m people are interested in playing CRPG's?

It seems you put 2 and 2 together and got 5 🤣

Right, so you bring up the number of active users because it's not relevant? WTF?

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R4gn4r0k

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#121 R4gn4r0k
Member since 2004 • 46718 Posts

@last_lap said:
@R4gn4r0k said:
@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: So 2.5m from a user base of 120m (based on monthly Steam users) is poor. Hopefully it has nothing to do with people stealing the game. A common PC problem.

PC gaming is just a collection of a random bunch of niches. Claiming that 120m people are interested in playing CRPGs is borderline insanity.

Where did I claim 120m people are interested in playing CRPG's?

It seems you put 2 and 2 together and got 5 🤣

The further along your narrative goes, the more it starts stretching/breaking.

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Jag85

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#122 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19689 Posts
@Ballroompirate said:

Assuming this game took 300 million to make + marketing they are not even breaking even. Which going by what SE was hoping that it would sell no less than 4 million would net them only 279 million in $$$. So that tells me that ether FF16 was 200 million to make at most or SE wouldn't care for 21 million loss as much as they made it out to be.

or it was greatly over 300 million to make I've seen some people say they spent 700 million on this game which I doubt it cause whoever greenlit that in the board meeting probably shouldn't be in charge of spending.

Where did you get $300M from? No way did it cost anywhere close to 300M! I highly doubt it cost more than 100M, let alone 300M. FF16 almost certainly cost less than FF15, which incurred heavy costs from the development of Luminous Engine, the scrapped Versus XIII prototype, and a feature-length CGI movie for promo. In comparison, FF16 uses a modified version of the FF14 engine, there was no scrapped prototype, and no CGI movie for promo. So the break-even point required for FF16 should be a lot less than FF15.

FF16's launch week sold 3M units at $70 each, which translates to $210M gross revenue. Assuming it cost around $100M, that would mean it was already profitable in launch week. Square Enix being disappointed does not mean it wasn't profitable. They simply expected a higher profit margin, but it turned out to be less profitable than expected.

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Last_Lap

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#123 Last_Lap
Member since 2023 • 6877 Posts

@rmpumper: Yes users are relevant, but I never claimed that 120m all like the same genre, that would be stupid, but the vast majority of those 120m users like more than just one genre. 2.5m is low, maybe hermits should stop stealing games and actually pay for them.

@R4gn4r0k:The more you try to add up the further away you get from the correct answer.

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Saint-George

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#124 Saint-George  Online
Member since 2023 • 1463 Posts

Come on Sony fan people get your hands in your pockets!

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SecretPolice

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#125 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44328 Posts

Kooky cows don't buy BS Jive games. lol :P

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Pedro

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#126 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70663 Posts

A nerve was hit.🤭

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deactivated-65dd04f21decf

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#127 deactivated-65dd04f21decf
Member since 2022 • 3769 Posts

@last_lap said:

@rmpumper: A quick Google search says you only need a Nvidia GTX 97O (an 8yr old card) to play the game, and hardly any Hermits have that. What's the point of owning a PC then? Now who's moving the goal posts 🤣

You have got to be the most oblivious dude on this forum.

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Fedor

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#128  Edited By Fedor
Member since 2015 • 11714 Posts

2.5 million pre launch sales, probably north of 5 million now. Yet people in here trying to downplay and spin BG3... In a post about FF16... Hilarious.

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deactivated-65dd04f21decf

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#129 deactivated-65dd04f21decf
Member since 2022 • 3769 Posts

@fedor said:

2.5 million pre launch sales, probably north of 5 million now. Yet people in here trying to downplay and spin BG3... In a post about FF16... Hilarious.

Lol, just standard SW nonsense. Some people around here have chips on their shoulders the size of Rhode Island.

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blaznwiipspman1

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#130 blaznwiipspman1
Member since 2007 • 16621 Posts

ooff cows are rekkd, I love these damage control threads lmao. Where have all the cows gone?? They all seem to dissapear when its negative news.

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Pedro

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#131  Edited By Pedro
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PCLover1980

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#132 PCLover1980
Member since 2022 • 1291 Posts

@fedor: No, no! You see, there are 120m PC users and only 5 million sales? Therefore PC gamers are a bunch of pirates.

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Jippo

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#133 Jippo
Member since 2018 • 183 Posts

good

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robert_sparkes

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#135 robert_sparkes
Member since 2018 • 7305 Posts

Would be interested to know how far away from expectations they were.

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SecretPolice

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#136 SecretPolice
Member since 2007 • 44328 Posts

@Pedro said:

Like a fish outta water...

lolol :P

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Litchie

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#137 Litchie
Member since 2003 • 34811 Posts

lol. This was a fun read.

I like the part when he lost and still continued.

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BIOKILLER123

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#138 BIOKILLER123
Member since 2010 • 1084 Posts

@girlusocrazy: 😂😂😂 Agreed.

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lamprey263

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#139 lamprey263
Member since 2006 • 44724 Posts

I think even Square Enix must have been aware the PS5's limited install base might have been issues they'd of projected their original targets on, but there could have been other factors that played into them not hitting targets.

I seen some say the Japanese weren't fans of the game's design, not sure I buy that. If there's an issue of the game's domestic performance, I think that could be attributed to not knowing what the domestic install base was.

We had heard months back that PS5 price in Japan was increasing, but what many didn't point out is that the price in Japan was substantially less than the costs in all other regions by large amounts, and still is even with the price increase. It was also brought up in separate reporting that a large number of Japanese PS5 consoles were being shipped overseas because of the substantial cost savings of getting a PS5 that way. Some speculated too that many went to China to bypass their content being locked down to their censorship there. If true, depending on the extent of this, they could have drastically underestimated domestic attach rates for PS5s with FFXVI because Japanese PS5 sales might not accurately reflect the PS5's Japanese install base.

Furthermore, I believe Hogwartz Legacy deserves some consideration. For a game that was reported to sell 15 million copies with 80+% being sold on PlayStation 5, I'm making an assumption the game was a significant driving force in PS5 sales, over this year, but also considering maybe those that splurged on a PS5 due to strength of the Harry Potter license might not have been interested in much else, possibly had less consideration for IPs that define Sony's core exclusive line-up. And given that the game sold 12+ million on PS5, there could be a substantial percentage of PS5 owners with little interest in much else. This wouldn't just be bad for Square Enix to sell FFXVI, could be an alarming indicator for any other publishers to project sales attach rates just based on the PS5 install base.

Furthermore, perhaps there targets may have been mislead by previous indicators. FF7R for instance releasing on PS4 and then re-releasing on PS5 may have perhaps toyed with the sales numbers some with it being difficult to know what sales numbers account for users who double dipped, or even counted those who made an upgrade as a fresh sale itself. The cross-gen logistics in PS ecosystem is very screwy. Every PS Plus game I download even spams my inbox with a thank you for your purchase type email and even there I wonder if PS Plus play gets conflated with actual sales. Possibly worth noting too FF7R was a PS Plus title too if that's relevant. But if they try to base FFXVI sales from FF7R's commercial performance, there might be issues with doing that.

But also worth considering $70 games aren't exactly attractive themselves. Sure some people might be willing with the right titles, but perhaps this just isn't the kind of game people want to shell out $70 on. Especially now with modern consoles having plenty of 8th and 9th gen digital games in their catalogs people can go back to with ease and discounted all the time and perhaps people still want to play FFXVI, but maybe they just want to hold out for a sale, and they have plenty of games to keep them busy until then.

All that aside, it's not surprising a game's sales are limited when they limit their audience by locking it down on a single system. Many Japanese publishers are finally catching on and abandoning this one system only model they've been stuck to for years. Square Enix seems to be the last of the major Japanese publishers to catch on. Not surprising Square Enix seems to be open again to releasing more games on Xbox after they've ousted their previous CEO with another. Not sure if it'll make any difference, the previous one may have locked the company down into a Sony exclusivity arrangement for quite a while but we'll never know when that runs its course until the exclusives start coming to other systems and they start focusing on more multiplatform releases.