Lemmings please tell me why Killzone 2 **** again?

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AskForDetails

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#1 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

READ THIS HERE FIRST:

KILLZONE 1

Created by 20 PC devs in a short span of itme on low budget, originally for the PC, but rushed to PS2 which was outdated hardware at the time, the company was 3rd party

KILLZONE 2

company owned by sony managed by 135+ devs with millions of dollars put into it (est. 20 million) the game has been in development for nearly 4 years if it follows with its release and come out this fall. the game has been said to be amazing by those who have played it, and if you care to watch the tech demo you will see the hype is not just over graphics

_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________

for a game in its pre-alpha stages it is Way more adv. than Any 360 game, and most PC games, it also is almost unparrelled in graphics, and it cant even be touched by a single 360 game, so pleqase lemmings do your best and tell me why this game is bad

Tech Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wFd9gTpyt0&feature=related

Lean and Peak Demo

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/24242.html

Pre-alpha VS target render of 05

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21609.html

More Vids...

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/1668.html

_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________]

READ THIS HERE FIRST:

KILLZONE 1

Created by 20 PC devs in a short span of itme on low budget, originally for the PC, but rushed to PS2 which was outdated hardware at the time, the company was 3rd party

KILLZONE 2

company owned by sony managed by 135+ devs with millions of dollars put into it (est. 20 million) the game has been in development for nearly 4 years if it follows with its release and come out this fall. the game has been said to be amazing by those who have played it, and if you care to watch the tech demo you will see the hype is not just over graphics

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V_Isle

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#2 V_Isle
Member since 2006 • 1785 Posts
It just does?
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AskForDetails

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#3 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
It just does?V_Isle
why?
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Axel_rocks14

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#4 Axel_rocks14
Member since 2007 • 780 Posts
Because the first killzone got average scores and you guys are only hyping graphics
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#5 SSCyborg
Member since 2007 • 7625 Posts

It just does?V_Isle

First one sucked. I'll say this one sucks until they can prove me wrong. If they failed to meet expectations who says they won't do it again.

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#6 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
Because the first killzone got average scores and you guys are only hyping graphicsAxel_rocks14
LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"
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#8 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]It just does?SSCyborg

First one sucked. I'll say this one sucks until they can prove me wrong. If they failed to meet expectations who says they won't do it again.

LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"
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BigJerm1

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#9 BigJerm1
Member since 2004 • 938 Posts
Why don't you tell everyone why it's good, outside of graphics? Face it, the first game sucked, so it's reasonable to assume that the sequel will suck as well. Is that fair? Perhaps not? Could KZ 2 be spectacular? Of course. BUT, none of us know that, so you seem just as idiotic as the people bashing it for saying how great it is.
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CaseyWegner

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#10 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
what was the myth?
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AskForDetails

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#11 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

I think it looks like a generic FPS with no innovation whatsoever. Also, the original sucked balls.

TMontana1004
lol ooks generic? show me a screen of a game like killzone 2?o yea..LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"
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#12 BigJerm1
Member since 2004 • 938 Posts

[QUOTE="Axel_rocks14"]Because the first killzone got average scores and you guys are only hyping graphicsAskForDetails
LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"

How was "the first game sucked" a myth, and how can you say it was debunked? The first game wa s asteaming pile, so deal with it.

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Kaosed

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#13 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts

1.the first one sucked

2.your hyping graphics

3.it will sucks becuase of the same reasons cows state fable 2 will flop, but then again fable 1 was 4 points from AAA...

4.etc

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AskForDetails

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#14 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
what was the myth?CaseyWegner
lol okay...ill write out the entire thing but u have to mod ppl who dont obay the rules... lol ill be a few min to edit
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usmcjdk6

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#15 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts

lol @ how killzone's floppyness was debunked.

Can someone tell me how?

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TMontana1004

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#16 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts
[QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

I think it looks like a generic FPS with no innovation whatsoever. Also, the original sucked balls.

AskForDetails

lol ooks generic? show me a screen of a game like killzone 2?o yea..LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"

Okay, so tell me how it is SOOO innovative fanboy. Really, please tell me what Killzone 2 is doing what others shooters haven't done in the past. BTW, everyone is pretty much bored of FPS's. My last one will be BF: BC.

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SSCyborg

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#17 SSCyborg
Member since 2007 • 7625 Posts
[QUOTE="SSCyborg"]

[QUOTE="V_Isle"]It just does?AskForDetails

First one sucked. I'll say this one sucks until they can prove me wrong. If they failed to meet expectations who says they won't do it again.

LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"

Learn to troll better.:|

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Kaosed

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#19 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

I think it looks like a generic FPS with no innovation whatsoever. Also, the original sucked balls.

TMontana1004

lol ooks generic? show me a screen of a game like killzone 2?o yea..LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"

Okay, so tell me how it is SOOO innovative fanboy. Really, please tell me what Killzone 2 is doing what others shooters haven't done in the past. BTW, everyone is pretty much bored of FPS's. My last one will be BF: BC.

everyoe was waiting for halo3to be tired of shooters, geow2 will most likely start the addiction again

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rolo107

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#20 rolo107
Member since 2007 • 5469 Posts
It was debunked? lol No it wasn't... This reeks of fanboy.
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TMontana1004

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#21 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts

Because they're blind dumbass fanboys. If it were a 360 game it would be hyped more than Halo3 was. Lazy_Boy88

No, not really. When Haze was multi-plat, no one gave a crap about it, including myself. As soon as it went PS3 exclusive, cows starting going crazy saying this game is going to be the best shooter ever. Those people are blind dumbass fanboys.

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#22 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

[QUOTE="Lazy_Boy88"]Because they're blind dumbass fanboys. If it were a 360 game it would be hyped more than Halo3 was. TMontana1004

No, not really. When Haze was multi-plat, no one gave a crap about it, including myself. As soon as it went PS3 exclusive, cows starting going crazy saying this game is going to be the best shooter ever. Those people are blind dumbass fanboys.

haze just looks like halo, Killzone 2 is much diffrent
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TMontana1004

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#23 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts
[QUOTE="TMontana1004"][QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

I think it looks like a generic FPS with no innovation whatsoever. Also, the original sucked balls.

Kaosed

lol ooks generic? show me a screen of a game like killzone 2?o yea..LEARN TO READ "_____________-------------------------NOTE DONT TELL ME "THE FIRST ONE SUCKED" THAT MYTH WAS DEBUNKED A LONG TIME AGO IT MIGHT AS WELL BE SONY MAKING THE GAME THEMSELFS-----------------------------______________________________"

Okay, so tell me how it is SOOO innovative fanboy. Really, please tell me what Killzone 2 is doing what others shooters haven't done in the past. BTW, everyone is pretty much bored of FPS's. My last one will be BF: BC.

everyoe was waiting for halo3to be tired of shooters, geow2 will most likely start the addiction again

I said FPS's, not shooters in general. I am looking forward to GOW2 asI was a big fan of the first.

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TMontana1004

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#24 TMontana1004
Member since 2007 • 4537 Posts
[QUOTE="TMontana1004"]

[QUOTE="Lazy_Boy88"]Because they're blind dumbass fanboys. If it were a 360 game it would be hyped more than Halo3 was. AskForDetails

No, not really. When Haze was multi-plat, no one gave a crap about it, including myself. As soon as it went PS3 exclusive, cows starting going crazy saying this game is going to be the best shooter ever. Those people are blind dumbass fanboys.

haze just looks like halo, Killzone 2 is much diffrent

lmao you haven't even seen the GP videos for it, have you?

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#25 BigJerm1
Member since 2004 • 938 Posts

Because they're blind dumbass fanboys. If it were a 360 game it would be hyped more than Halo3 was. Lazy_Boy88

Not likely, if the game in question was garbage like Killzone was. Let's see..."blind dumbass fanboys." Sounds like the definition of someone who hypes the hell out ofa game based on graphics alone, ignoring the fact that its predecessor sucked....think about it.

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#26 D0013ER
Member since 2007 • 3765 Posts

Because the first killzone got average scores and you guys are only hyping graphicsAxel_rocks14

Ding! Your cookie is in the mail.

Seriously, ask yourselves: What do we really know about this game?

We have a handful of screenshots and pretty videos, since when does that guarantee a great game?

I'm not saying I think it's gonna suck, mind you, but I really don't think there's enough info about the game out to get the hype train going either...

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#27 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts
the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it does
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#28 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts

the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesGunSmith1_basic

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

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Kaosed

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#29 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesusmcjdk6

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

ROFL OWNED

btw gamespot wasnt the only one to flop kz

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MrPostman4Chi

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#30 MrPostman4Chi
Member since 2006 • 1219 Posts

Cows hype games based on graphics.

Case Closed

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AskForDetails

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#31 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesusmcjdk6

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO
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#32 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

Cows hype games based on graphics.

Case Closed

MrPostman4Chi
READ THE THREAD B4R SPEAKING NOW GO WATCH THE TECH VID
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-wii60-

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#33 -wii60-
Member since 2007 • 3287 Posts
Are those textures from a ps1 game? damn looks like poop.
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#34 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

no and it still scored 9.5

your point?

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AskForDetails

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#35 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
Are those textures from a ps1 game? damn looks like poop.-wii60-
lol hahah ahahah omg sum1 brought up the textures again... pre-alpha, and not a chance in hell they would leave them like that btw
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#36 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
[QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesKaosed

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

no and it still scored 9.5

your point?

wtf ru talking about? what scored 9.5?

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black_awpN1

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#37 black_awpN1
Member since 2004 • 7863 Posts
Actually the first Killzone was pretty fun. The game also looked pretty good for its time. ITs really not as bad as people made it out to be.
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usmcjdk6

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#38 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

Is it made by a company known for barely being able to crack the AA barrier? Does it have one of the worst interactive teams to date? Does it have a sucky predecessor? NO

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-wii60-

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#39 -wii60-
Member since 2007 • 3287 Posts

[QUOTE="-wii60-"]Are those textures from a ps1 game? damn looks like poop.AskForDetails
lol hahah ahahah omg sum1 brought up the textures again... pre-alpha, and not a chance in hell they would leave them like that btw

more than 3 years under developement and pre alpha :roll: suree, u cows eat up sony propaganda :roll:

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#40 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts
[QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesusmcjdk6

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

Is it made by a company known for barely being able to crack the AA barrier? Does it have one of the worst interactive teams to date? Does it have a sucky predecessor? NO

KILLZONE 2 IS MADE BY SONY under the nameGG with 135+ of sony's devs

KILLZONE 1 was made by 20 of GG's devs

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CaseyWegner

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#41 CaseyWegner
Member since 2002 • 70114 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

that's nice and all but...there isn't really any myth debunked here.

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AskForDetails

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#42 AskForDetails
Member since 2007 • 1216 Posts

[QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="-wii60-"]Are those textures from a ps1 game? damn looks like poop.-wii60-

lol hahah ahahah omg sum1 brought up the textures again... pre-alpha, and not a chance in hell they would leave them like that btw

more than 3 years under developement and pre alpha :roll: suree, u cows eat up sony propaganda :roll:

lol coming form sum1 wiht the name wii360 that means a lot
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usmcjdk6

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#43 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"][QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

Is it made by a company known for barely being able to crack the AA barrier? Does it have one of the worst interactive teams to date? Does it have a sucky predecessor? NO

KILLZONE 2 IS MADE BY SONY under the nameGG with 135+ of sony's devs

KILLZONE 1 was made by 20 of GG's devs

And how does this change anything? Sony's track record for FPS....PLANETSIDE.

FAIL.

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GunSmith1_basic

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#44 GunSmith1_basic
Member since 2002 • 10548 Posts

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesusmcjdk6

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

wow, no need for that. You know, maybe if mass effect didn't have all of its technical flaws it would have been an AAA game but instead it's AA. If I hear that mass effect 2 has a budget like killzone 2's, with all the time and people devoted to it like KZ2 has,I would think that theseries would have made that final push towards AAA. Isn't that fair?

And, if you read the review of the original killzone you would see that the game suffered from crippling technical issues, including terrible framerate and overall lack of polish.

How is that demented logic? How about demented lemming blindness?

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lawlessx

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#45 lawlessx
Member since 2004 • 48753 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

i honestly cant believe people are still using the game's budget to help hype the game. and how do you know mass effect 2 wont cost 20 million to develop? oh wait..you dont :|

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CrimsonBlade360

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#46 CrimsonBlade360
Member since 2007 • 588 Posts
KZ2 graphics are not even that great just a whole lot of gray. Project offset on the 360 will look better wait and see.
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Kaosed

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#47 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"][QUOTE="AskForDetails"][QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesAskForDetails

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

is mass effect 2 made by 135+ devs? does it have 20 million dollars riding on it? is it a flagship game for microsoft? has it been in the making for 4 years? NO

Is it made by a company known for barely being able to crack the AA barrier? Does it have one of the worst interactive teams to date? Does it have a sucky predecessor? NO

KILLZONE 2 IS MADE BY SONY under the nameGG with 135+ of sony's devs

KILLZONE 1 was made by 20 of GG's devs

and its been 3 years and its still in pre-alpha?

how can you believe crap like this?

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usmcjdk6

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#48 usmcjdk6
Member since 2007 • 1240 Posts

I wonder how manypeople have died waitingfor a good game on the BS3.

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CrimsonBlade360

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#49 CrimsonBlade360
Member since 2007 • 588 Posts
LOL @ your sig
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Kaosed

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#50 Kaosed
Member since 2006 • 3409 Posts
[QUOTE="usmcjdk6"]

[QUOTE="GunSmith1_basic"]the reveiw for the original killzone said that it would have been a good game but it was full of technical issues and didn't have polish. Just read the review and see that the game actually had a lot of potential to add some flavour to the FPS genre. I'm sure they'll address the problems in KZ2, and judging by the huge budget the game has I wouldn't doubt that it doesGunSmith1_basic

Using demented Cow Logic.

I'm hyping Mass Effect 2 AAAAAE

wow, no need for that. You know, maybe if mass effect didn't have all of its technical flaws it would have been an AAA game but instead it's AA. If I hear that mass effect 2 has a budget like killzone 2's, with all the time and people devoted to it like KZ2 has,I would think that theseries would have made that final push towards AAA. Isn't that fair?

And, if you read the review of the original killzone you would see that the game suffered from crippling technical issues, including terrible framerate and overall lack of polish.

How is that demented logic? How about demented lemming blindness?

play the game, until then ur opinion isnt important