Is Wii U the definitive companion console?

The reason Bayonetta 2 sold like crap is because that kind of game is niche as hell. First Person shooters, Third Person Shooters, Stealth/Action and Action/Adventure games are not niche. Nintendo doesn't really offer much variety in regards to those genres. It is the same 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash, Donkey Kong, Zelda every generation that makes Nintendo systems still relevant. When was the last time Nintendo created a truly successful IP? Smash Bros.?

Anyways, if you look at Wii U sales you'll see that those franchises are no longer good enough to sustain a console. The Wii U is on track to sell less than the Gamecube did. That's pathetic.

I would say Nintendo is the one being generic. Where is all the exciting new IP? All they have been doing is making better looking versions of 3D titles you could find on the N64 and Gamecube. At least Sony/Microsoft will try to make new IP. Nintendo can't even be bothered to try something outside their bubble.

New IP/=/not being generic. Also, Nintendo does occasionally put out new IPs. For instance, Splatoon, which looks far more interesting than something like CoD.

Also, you're ignoring that they published stuff like Bayonetta and Xenoblade, which is outside of their usual wheelhouse.

Could they stand to diversify more? Yes. But your argument is hyperbolic.

Look at the sales for the Wii U. Obviously there is a big demographic of gamers that they aren't appealing to. Nintendo is a business and should care about maximizing profits, not catering to the small group of hardcore Nintendo fans. You can make fun of COD all you want but it is by far a more profitable franchise than what Nintendo currently makes for their home consoles. Man if I was an investor of Nintendo I would be so annoyed with them.

The Wii series (particularly Sports and Resort) weren't successful? Again, they can broaden their horizons without turning into a clone of the competition and they can do it without appealing to the "mature/hardcore" crowd (who Nintendo needs to forget about).

@GreySeal9:

The Sony Microsoft crew are the generic. Just look at what happened to game design in general. It was follow the leader for 7 years. Then this same crowd will mock any nintendo game. It is quite sad. The wii might not have been for everyone, but to call it generic? How about all the 3ds stuff? There's a lot of games that aren't going to appeal to everyone. When nintendo puts out and pushes an oddball the "core" tend to say things in the vein of, "lol wtf is that!" Same goes for nintendo land. That is a GOOD game if you've got people around. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat? Etc etc.

Good thing I'm not an investor.

As a gamer, it would be pretty depressing if Nintendo tried to appeal to who you want them to appeal to.

If I want a COD, I can get COD. There is no need for Ninty to go that route.

Agreed.

Good, because investors come up with some bullshit. They still want Nintendo to go ALL iOS for god's sake, even to the point of wanting people to pay Mario to jump (yeah, that's not as money begging as Final Fantasy: All the Bravest). Hell, they even give the idea that MS should shut down the XBOX division. Goes to show how little they really care for the medium they're investing in.

@GreySeal9:

How bout when sony fanboys were actually saying how the Playstation Move was not a ripoff of the wii remote/nun chuck?

Only Nintendo fans will attempt to argue that Nintendo diversifying their appeal is a bad thing. Christ.

You may not agree with CoD, GeoW, Uncharted....that's grand. I hate CoD as well. But the fact remains regardless, IF Nintendo wishes to broaden its appeal past the niche (that is ever decreasing, look at the numbers), those tastes need to be appealed to. Why they won't sell? Well, perhaps it's because Nintendo allowed that user-base to be snatched away by companies that gave people what they wanted? You think Nintendo can just ignore desires and then have their cake too? They have made their bed, and they are damn well lying in it, deservedly so.

But no, it's always much easier to lay the blame at the feet of the consumer and play the persecution complex. Poor little Nintendo, right, they just can't catch a break.

Wii Sports was a fad. It was a temporary successful franchise thanks to casual gamers and people's Grandparents.

Nintendo still hasn't gained back the audience they lost when Sony released the original PS1. That is the audience that made Nintendo successful in the first place.

I never said Nintendo lacked quality, they lack diversity. They have been clinging on to the same tired franchises to sell their consoles since the 80's. I want story driven games with voice acting. Zelda still uses freaking text. Nintendo uses the same approach to story telling now as they did in the 80's. They are afraid to step outside the box.

Only reason why I'm even considering buying a Wii U is because of Star Fox. If they somehow manage to not screw up that game like they did with Star Fox adventures I'll be happy.

Yet when you talked about the games you liked, you named very inside the box sorts of franchises.

Again, new IPs/=/stepping outside the box.

Nobody is arguing that. All anybody is arguing against is the idea of Nintendo following the rest of the market. Nintendo does not need to cover bases that other companies already cover well.

But nobody in their right mind is against the notion of diversification in general. Most Ninty fans were thrilled at Nintendo acquiring Bayonetta for instance.

I'm saying outside Nintendo's bubble. They should still make their Mario Karts and Zelda games, but at the same time make games that also appeal to PS4/XB1 fans as well.

@emgesp:

Fck voice acting. It doesn't fit with everything. Plus I just stated how people overlook diverse games.you mean to tell me ms or Sony has a more diverse catalog? Are you insane? Do you understand how many bases nintendo covers.

...rare developed Starfox Adventures.

Then Nintendo shouldn't expect any future home consoles to sell better than 15 - 20 million units LTD. No future Nintendo home console will sell more than 20 million units with the current franchises.

The only way for Nintendo to sell more consoles is if they diversify their lineup or create another gimmick on the level of the original Wii (First option is more practical IMHO).

Xenoblade is a Nintendo IP unlike Bayonetta. They own Monolith Soft just like they do Intelligent Systems, Retro Studios, etc.

If you want story driven games with voice acting, there are plenty options for you out there. Also, they tried that with Metroid: Other M. Didn't work out so well but the effort was made.

I'll concede that Zelda games should get some voice acting tho. Link should be silent but everybody else needs to be voiced.

Whether or not Nintendo games appeal to you, they have a certain style like any other company and there's no reason to expect them to do everything. Also, Nintendo's stable of franchises are more diverse than you're giving them credit for.

Also, while you might feel that something like Mario has gotten sale, reviewers certainly don't.

You're just assuming that they'll all of sudden be selling gangbusters if they diversify their lineup in the way you want them to. There's no guarantee that redundancy will help them either.

If the game is story driven then voice acting can really help with the immersion factor. I'm fine with some text as long as it is balanced out with some voice acting as well. Zelda's text based approach to story telling seems antiquated by todays standards.

No, it isn't a guarantee, but for christ sake they should at least try. And by try I don't mean creating niche Japanese genres that don't sell well in America. I mean something that could make Halo, Gears, or Uncharted fans turn their heads and take notice.

Didn't they publish Bayonetta 2 tho?

@emgesp:

I find that voice overs take away from the immersion. They take the player out of the role. The story should be partially crafted by the player experience, not cutscenes.

As somebody who enjoys video games and is not an investor, I'm not here for this focus group-tested approach. It's completely soulless.

You mean the audience that still suck up to the SNES, think everything by Nintendo sucked since (ignoring even the good stuff the N64/GC/Wii/Wii U have provided in spite of their shortcomings), and hypocritically bash the company and CURRENT Nintendo fans as the nostalgic ones? The ones that think Nintendo IP's had nothing to do with the SNES success and it was ONLY the third parties? Sorry, but they're beyond converting back at this point, they've chosen a side and are sticking by it. Nintendo needs to move on from them.

Well IMHO, Nintendo consoles after the SNES were not as good. I love the N64 and Gamecube, but there are only a few gems on those consoles that I care about. In comparison, the SNES has a truck load of must own games.

That is just an example of games. How about an open world title in the vein of GTA? Have some 2nd party create it since Nintendo's own studios would never create some ultra violent game on the level of GTA. Also, Miyamoto seems to like Assassin's Creed. A stealth based/action game is something Nintendo currently lacks.

Ah, yes. It's just that some people confuse Xenoblade into being a 3rd party game Ninty just published, much like Bayonetta. That isn't true at all; Xenoblade is part of Nintendo's family (reason why Shulk is in SSB4 as a non-guest playable character) whereas Bayonetta is not.

Wrong, they desperately need to if they wish to expand their business, audience, user-base, and ultimately profit. Your tastes and my tastes are irrelevant here. The fact is, that market exists and it's a massive one. Why should Nintendo ignore it simply because it's being focused on by another, who are finding it highly lucrative and sustainable? Especially when it's being shown that tastes are showing favor to that and not to the types of games Nintendo continually insists upon making, as diminishing sales numbers are indicating?

Not that I have a problem with their games, but they are so laser focused on ignoring all other types it's outright insanity, and it's being proven to be harming their business, and defenders of this strategy can keep harping that they should "work with what they know", blah blah blah......and guess what? Nintendo will continue to slip further and further downwards as long as they do this. I do believe they can maintain their business on a smaller scale as there will always be an audience for their products, but if they wish to grow.......then they themselves have to grow in what they offer.

This ultra conservatism is a real threat to their business.

These fanboys don't seem to comprehend that Nintendo is a business and should be focusing on how to better diversify their lineup of games in the hopes of maximizing their profits. Getting the attention of PS4/XB1 fans is not a bad thing. It would only benefit Nintendo.

As to the bolded: you have no idea if this is what they need to do. You're just assuming. For all you know, trying to follow those markets could be entirely futile.

That's not to say that they don't need to change their business model, but you act as if there's one solution.

Also, there's no evidence that the issue is the types of games Nintendo makes are the problem. Games like Mario Kart, Super Smash, and Pokemon still sell exceptionally well. The problem seems to stem from the way in which they sell the hardware and the lack of third party support. I agree that not having certain types of games on the Wii U has hurt them. But that doesn't mean that Nintendo needs to make all these kinds of games themselves. They are excellent game makers, but they are not so infallible that they shouldn't play to their strengths just as every other company does. Really, they need to figure out how to make their systems more appealing to third parties. And that might begin with producing better hardware, better online structures. But this whole idea that they need to develop games on a quasi focus group-basis is nonsense.

Again, I enjoy games and don't care about Nintendo maximizing their profits. Actually, caring about a company's profits is far more fanboyish than anything.

Making a console that appeals to both fanbases is not a bad thing. If Nintendo had a healthier third party, that alone would make the console more appealing.

But to expect Nintendo to start churning out me too titles is nonsense. As good as Nintendo is, they cannot realistically cover every base themselves.

You know how they can do that? By including them when they are developing their consoles. By the time third party developers hear about the new Nintendo console the hardware is basically finalized at that point. Nintendo is also notorious for holding back dev kits until late in the development process. They need to approach third parties like Sony did with the PS4. Nintendo desperately needs their own Mark Cerny.

I don't think anybody would argue the point that Nintendo should completely rethink and overhaul the way they approach third parties. It's been the thorn in their side since the N64.

You guys assume that Nintendo fans just act like Nintendo can do no wrong when we simply don't want them to homogenize themselves for the sake of sales.

I'll be the first to admit that the way that Ninty handled the Wii U was disastrous, right from the moment that they named the damn thing. But that doesn't mean I'm going to have ridiculous expectations either.

Then they better get their shi* together in time when they release their next home console.

All I ask is for people to hold Nintendo to a higher standard and stop making excuses for them. The Wii U is selling like crap because of Nintendo, not gamers.

Well, yes. The consumer is never at fault for not buying something. Nothing is entitled to sales; companies need to earn them.

I just don't think being all things to all people is a good idea. It's possible to please nobody by trying to please everybody. But yes, it would help to please more people than they are currently are. I just don't buy the idea that these people need to be CoD and Halo fans.

Do you mean it would help?

The NES and SNES proves that third party titles can sell well on Nintendo consoles, its just that Nintendo needs to be the console to own for that to happen.

Even that would be difficult, considering third parties would deny an audience with Nintendo like an AI Civilization at war with a player.

What specifically?

I don't see how getting the attention of PS4 and One fans are a bad thing either. Nintendo fans tend to speak of them as if they are the plague in the likes of the games they enjoy. It's a stereotype that needs to die.

Yeah, that was a typo. I meant to say it would.

It's not a bad thing inherently, but I don't want Nintendo to trend chase to do it.

And while I agree that some Ninty fans speak of PS4 and Xbox fans like the plague (that goes the other way around as well), Ninty fans do have a different set of priorities than many PS/Xbox fans and there's nothing wrong with that.

For example, I've heard some PS/Xbox gamers suggest that Zelda should me more like Skyrim and that's something that Ninty fans are just not here for. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that the whole "Zelda Wii U is going to be open world" plan is a bit worrying.

That's not to say Zelda can't learn ANYTHING from a game like Skyrim but it would have to be little things. Anything more would be disastrous IMO.

It's not nonsense, it's a reality that is upon Nintendo's shoulders to fix.

The types of games are not the entirely of the problem, but the lack of diversity is undoubtedly a large part of it. The appeal of the hardware is to those who desire Nintendo games. Third party is now a chicken/egg question, and unfortunately Nintendo has let themselves get into the unenviable position of having to fill all the gaps left by their absence. I highly doubt that they are going to try to get third parties back on board at this point, of which I've elaborated on before and don't wish to get into it as it's another discussion. But in any case, the success of third party efforts on any hardware lay contingent upon the audience that owns it, and unfortunately Nintendo has made it so they are nigh literally the only developer for their machine, and hence the sole one with the responsibility of offering a plethora of choice for their software so as to make third party efforts once again a viable prospect.