IGN: Why the Indie Hate? Also: PC Gamers Ahead of Curve!

#1 Posted by cfisher2833 (1637 posts) -

Excerpt:

When I think about the best games of 2014 so far, my mind immediately goes to smaller experiences: Child of Light, Valiant Hearts, and the best one of them all, a true indie called Shovel Knight. Sure, South Park: The Stick of Truth, Infamous: Second Son, Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc, and others are up there, but let this be illustrative of a single point: these games can co-exist, make you happy, and complement one another. One doesn't exist at the sake of another, and both can justify purchasing of a console or handheld. PC gamers in particular already know this better than anyone else (which isn’t a surprise, since they’ve also been way ahead of the curve of the inevitable digital-only revolution). Indies and smaller titles dominate Steam, yet that doesn’t stop PC gamers from playing some of the giant games from giant developers, either. They typically don't look at the term "indie" in a pejorative light, because they're already exist in the comfortable space that consoles are slowly but surely headed toward.

Link

#2 Posted by Blabadon (26151 posts) -

Not bad, but lol Colin Moriarty

#3 Edited by RoboCopISJesus (1408 posts) -

The indy hate is because the fanboys system of choice doesn't have many great indy's yet, same goes for ANY genre hate most of the time.

#4 Posted by mems_1224 (46974 posts) -

Problem is, PC doesn't just have indie games and re-releases like the POS4

#5 Edited by Mr_Huggles_dog (1001 posts) -

There are like a billion Indy games on PC and even though 95% of them suck it's only a matter of mathematics that some are going to be really great.

I'm sure if there were that many AAA titles there would be more TLoU quality titles.

#6 Edited by Gue1 (9782 posts) -

@mems_1224 said:

Problem is, PC doesn't just have indie games and re-releases like the POS4

^ this is most likely the first time this guy says something that make sense. lol

Well, at least the most sense yet.

#7 Posted by R4gn4r0k (16460 posts) -

So many games are 'indie' these days without people knowing they are.

#8 Posted by Blabadon (26151 posts) -

@Gue1 said:

@mems_1224 said:

Problem is, PC doesn't just have indie games and re-releases like the POS4

this is most likely the first time this guy says something that make sense. lol

Yes Gue, tell us all about your excellent comprehension of people.

#9 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (27552 posts) -

(which isn’t a surprise, since they’ve also been way ahead of the curve of the inevitable digital-only revolution).

I love seeing the reactionaires fight back against it like its a bad thing. "Buh buh I still have all my betamax's", yea its the digital age there fred flintstone.

The indy hate is because the fanboys system of choice doesn't have many great indy's yet, same goes for ANY genre hate most of the time.

So this, yet they apparently love any that get released for their machines.

#10 Edited by PapaTrop (865 posts) -

The indie hate comes because people spent $400 + $50 a year to play on "the most powerful console", and are only getting small indie games (of which many are old ports), and old ports of last-gen console games.

#11 Posted by Zelda187 (759 posts) -

Divinity: Original Sin is an indie game and it's better than any lame ass Final Fantasy that's come out in the last 15 years.

#12 Posted by gameofthering (10207 posts) -

I don't see what's bad about them.

A game is a game.

#13 Posted by NFJSupreme (5302 posts) -

PC gamers have always been ahead of the curve

#15 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16722 posts) -

Indie games are fun, at least, (SURPRISE) the good ones are fun, just like how the good AAA games are the fun ones. I do think that indie gets overblown sometimes (I really enjoyed the recent Shovel Knight but people are calling it one of the greatest games of all time and I'm just not seeing it) and people place too much value on it but still, there are good indie titles and there are good AAA titles. Hell, one of my favorite games I've played this year is Hotline Miami. that is a game I'd be comfortable in saying is original without being pretentious.

But with titles like Journey? I can understand the emotional reaction to it, I guess, but people calling it GOTY? The game is about two hours long and has almost no replay value, and the actual gameplay that is there is rather sparse. No, it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, but holy shit did that game get more hype than was deserved. That's an example where I think that people placed far too much value on it being Indie. Now, I can appreciate that the developers were working at something completely different and I like that. New ideas are always a good thing. But the end result is good for one, maybe two play throughs at most (around 4 or 5 hours of play time) and then there's nothing left to it.

#16 Posted by Cloud_imperium (2957 posts) -

I don't see what's bad about them.

A game is a game.

This .

I never understood what "indie" really means . Is it related to low budget and production values .? If so then is smaller titles published by big corps like UBISOFT are also indie .? Or it's something related to developers being independent . Is Half Life 2 an indie game , in that case .?

The fact is , a game is a game . It is either a good game or a bad one . Word "indie" is just used by people to bash other platform's library . At least PC have both "indie" and AAA games , instead of having only "indie" .

#17 Posted by blue_hazy_basic (27552 posts) -

Indie games are fun, at least, (SURPRISE) the good ones are fun, just like how the good AAA games are the fun ones. I do think that indie gets overblown sometimes (I really enjoyed the recent Shovel Knight but people are calling it one of the greatest games of all time and I'm just not seeing it) and people place too much value on it but still, there are good indie titles and there are good AAA titles. Hell, one of my favorite games I've played this year is Hotline Miami. that is a game I'd be comfortable in saying is original without being pretentious.

But with titles like Journey? I can understand the emotional reaction to it, I guess, but people calling it GOTY? The game is about two hours long and has almost no replay value, and the actual gameplay that is there is rather sparse. No, it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, but holy shit did that game get more hype than was deserved. That's an example where I think that people placed far too much value on it being Indie. Now, I can appreciate that the developers were working at something completely different and I like that. New ideas are always a good thing. But the end result is good for one, maybe two play throughs at most (around 4 or 5 hours of play time) and then there's nothing left to it.

Have you played FTL? Esp with the advanced edition its flat out amazing

#18 Posted by OhSnapitz (18312 posts) -

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Can't say consolers because the 360 has had a TON of indies (most crap) for the last 4+ years.. so who are these people?

#19 Edited by wis3boi (31294 posts) -

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Can't say consolers because the 360 has had a TON of indies (most crap) for the last 4+ years.. so who are these people?

console fanboys who think indies are only 2d $10 budget titles

#20 Edited by Blabadon (26151 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic: And it's today's deal of the day on Steam!

I was gonna buy it but it turns out I own it.

#21 Posted by uninspiredcup (8320 posts) -

Article very false. Look at the scorn greenlight gets, the scorn early access has, the scorn indie developers of games like Garrys incidence and so fourth...

Seems like the writer is attempting to pander to hipsters and as such, should fuck off back Starbucks with all the other tossers.

#22 Edited by turtlethetaffer (16722 posts) -

@blue_hazy_basic: I have yet to play it but I will def check it out hen I get the chance.

#23 Edited by RoboCopISJesus (1408 posts) -

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Shielder, Cranler, PS4hasnogames, Am-Gamer, M3boarder, etc.

Basically a big portion of regular posters here....

#24 Posted by DEadliNE-Zero0 (1994 posts) -

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Can't say consolers because the 360 has had a TON of indies (most crap) for the last 4+ years.. so who are these people?

I do remember alot ofmocking of indie games by the playstation fanbase, and even so xbox fanboys, for the last couple of years before next gen, because of their AAA exclusives.

#25 Edited by Senor_Kami (8380 posts) -

The influx or 2D pixel platformers turns me off. I don't get why these get a pass. The same people that groan whenever a brown and gray military shooter comes out turn around and act like SNES pixel art is some wholly unique art style never before seen and the gameplay, which is a blatant bite of some game they played back in 2nd grade, is earth shattering. I don't get that.

Path of Exile, Transistor, Walking Dead, Ryme, Banished, etc... give me those games all day. The 100th pixel art platformer to come out in a month though? No thanks. It was cool at first but now it's been beaten to death and has been played out for years now.

#26 Posted by OhSnapitz (18312 posts) -

The Dishwasher: Dead Samurai came out april 2009 (5 years ago) and was well received by the XB community.

Castle Crashers came out 2008 (almost 6 years ago) and was well received by the XB community.

So Indies have been gracing the consoles for quite some time.. but we're going to listen to the comments of a few trolls.

#27 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (15990 posts) -

I don't hate indie games. Flying Wild Hog is an indie developer and they're the ones who made Hard Reset and Shadow Warrior. Looking at Wiki, it looks like they're making a third game which is a *gasp* sidescroller. Not my cup of tea. But, oh well.

#28 Posted by farrell2k (5860 posts) -

Indie games are the only interesting titles on the xb1 and ps4 these days.

#29 Posted by BldgIrsh (2230 posts) -

@OhSnapitz said:

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Shielder, Cranler, PS4hasnogames, Am-Gamer, M3boarder, etc.

Basically a big portion of regular posters here....

As much as Cranler says he's a manticore and he knows everything while you can easily tell he's bsing... he hasn't hated on indies as far as I recall. But you can replace him with lglz1337 if you wish.

#30 Posted by TheEroica (13419 posts) -

The very best indie games have outpaced the very best of big budget games over the past few years, I'd say easily...

In my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone in particular, but if you are entering into your thought process the idea that a game is irrelevant because of the size of the budget, team, genre, graphics... and every other stereotypical trashing of indies you can muster, you have allowed your brain to grow very small... all games are going for different experiences and different hooks to pull you in...

Blessed are the developers that create with total freedom.

Blessed are the developers who create something bold and unique.

Blessed are the developers who realize that just because a genre is old doesn't mean it's tired.

Blessed are the gamers smart enough to expand their experiences in the hobby.

Corinthians 16:8

#31 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

The very best indie games have outpaced the very best of big budget games over the past few years, I'd say easily...

In my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone in particular, but if you are entering into your thought process the idea that a game is irrelevant because of the size of the budget, team, genre, graphics... and every other stereotypical trashing of indies you can muster, you have allowed your brain to grow very small... all games are going for different experiences and different hooks to pull you in...

Blessed are the developers that create with total freedom.

Blessed are the developers who create something bold and unique.

Blessed are the developers who realize that just because a genre is old doesn't mean it's tired.

Blessed are the gamers smart enough to expand their experiences in the hobby.

Corinthians 16:8

Well said.

Speaks volumes when the 4th most played game for the last 2 weeks on steam is a free2play minecraft meets day z incredibly low production values, yet is fun as hell on large servers.... 60k people playing it after 2 weeks at peak.

Best part... its made by one 16 year old boy... and hes updating it often and talking to the community on steam often.

The most embarassing bit? it practicaly has as much content as Day Z stand alone..... ofcourse graphics is a massive comparison, but given that all the graphical assets were already half done from ARMA 2 .... hardly impressive.

#32 Posted by vickissv2 (1767 posts) -

Because most of them barely constitute as serious games. Cheesy basement brews and grad school projects being passed off as legit. It's not all of them , but it's most. It's not what people buy new consoles for , especially when most of them also look stuck in the mid 2000s graphically, and most could be mobile games. Of course there are exceptions, but overall it detracts from the quality of gaming overall.

#33 Posted by BldgIrsh (2230 posts) -

Because most of them barely constitute as serious games. Cheesy basement brews and grad school projects being passed off as legit. It's not all of them , but it's most. It's not what people buy new consoles for , especially when most of them also look stuck in the mid 2000s graphically, and most could be mobile games. Of course there are exceptions, but overall it detracts from the quality of gaming overall.

I agree, we need more AAA shooters!

#34 Edited by vickissv2 (1767 posts) -

@bldgirsh said:

@vickissv2 said:

Because most of them barely constitute as serious games. Cheesy basement brews and grad school projects being passed off as legit. It's not all of them , but it's most. It's not what people buy new consoles for , especially when most of them also look stuck in the mid 2000s graphically, and most could be mobile games. Of course there are exceptions, but overall it detracts from the quality of gaming overall.

I agree, we need more AAA shooters!

We just need more AAA indies in general.

#35 Posted by bbkkristian (14946 posts) -

I read this article, and it makes me fear the future of our industry, especially when it comes to Role playing Games specifically. Indies aren't long. Transistor was an 8 hour game which is ashame because it had a great battle system. Colin says that indies are the future, I don't want short fun bursts of enjoyment. If I like a game, I don't want it to end. Like Gravity Rush, as soon as you get the hang of the game, you're already at the end asking yourself how the hell you went through it so quick. Then you find out there is no post game and has nothing to do at the end.

Story should never be an excuse for a short game, particularly because proper game design is developing the battle system first, then making the story. You want to player that gameplay for as long as possible, there is nothing worse about a player feeling like he just slept with a hot girl then she just leaves. And that is why I can't enjoy very many indie RPGs.

#36 Edited by PapaTrop (865 posts) -

Because most of them barely constitute as serious games. Cheesy basement brews and grad school projects being passed off as legit. It's not all of them , but it's most. It's not what people buy new consoles for , especially when most of them also look stuck in the mid 2000s graphically, and most could be mobile games. Of course there are exceptions, but overall it detracts from the quality of gaming overall.

Pretty much.

People point to games like Star Citizen, and Divinity: OS as indie games to prove naysayers wrong, but those are extremely rare outliers in a sea of literally THOUSANDS of indie games that are either bad, or have very little going for them outside of maybe an hour or two of fun. There's such a huge number of them because it's so easy to make a game nowadays, and so many gamers are giving them a free pass based on things like nostalgia.

#37 Posted by TheEroica (13419 posts) -

@MBirdy88: indeed... the magic of indie games, control... direct and unfiltered control from the devs. No bloated, standing over the shoulder bean counters telling them what to do to appeal to the most people. It's the movement that anyone who even remotely follows this hobby should be downright giddy about.

#38 Posted by remiks00 (1810 posts) -

@MBirdy88 said:

@TheEroica said:

The very best indie games have outpaced the very best of big budget games over the past few years, I'd say easily...

In my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone in particular, but if you are entering into your thought process the idea that a game is irrelevant because of the size of the budget, team, genre, graphics... and every other stereotypical trashing of indies you can muster, you have allowed your brain to grow very small... all games are going for different experiences and different hooks to pull you in...

Blessed are the developers that create with total freedom.

Blessed are the developers who create something bold and unique.

Blessed are the developers who realize that just because a genre is old doesn't mean it's tired.

Blessed are the gamers smart enough to expand their experiences in the hobby.

Corinthians 16:8

Well said.

Speaks volumes when the 4th most played game for the last 2 weeks on steam is a free2play minecraft meets day z incredibly low production values, yet is fun as hell on large servers.... 60k people playing it after 2 weeks at peak.

Best part... its made by one 16 year old boy... and hes updating it often and talking to the community on steam often.

The most embarassing bit? it practicaly has as much content as Day Z stand alone..... ofcourse graphics is a massive comparison, but given that all the graphical assets were already half done from ARMA 2 .... hardly impressive.

What's the name of the game bro? I want to check it out.

#39 Edited by RoboCopISJesus (1408 posts) -

So Indies have been gracing the consoles for quite some time.. but we're going to listen to the comments of a few trolls.

No one said consoles don't get good/great indy's, its just that PC gets far more.

#40 Edited by illmatic87 (15215 posts) -

@OhSnapitz said:

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Can't say consolers because the 360 has had a TON of indies (most crap) for the last 4+ years.. so who are these people?

Go to the General Games discussion subforum here and you'll easily find them.

System Wars for the most part are actually pretty welcoming to indie games.

#41 Posted by commonfate (12285 posts) -

Ok.. I gotta ask...

Who the F*** is hating on indies? Who are these mysterious people/gamers everyone keeps referring to.. but not showing any evidence. Who are these people?

Can't say consolers because the 360 has had a TON of indies (most crap) for the last 4+ years.. so who are these people?

I've yet to come across any posters that people would normally take seriously say anything like that. People are fighting imaginary battles lol.

#43 Posted by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

@remiks00 said:

@MBirdy88 said:

@TheEroica said:

The very best indie games have outpaced the very best of big budget games over the past few years, I'd say easily...

In my opinion, and I don't mean to offend anyone in particular, but if you are entering into your thought process the idea that a game is irrelevant because of the size of the budget, team, genre, graphics... and every other stereotypical trashing of indies you can muster, you have allowed your brain to grow very small... all games are going for different experiences and different hooks to pull you in...

Blessed are the developers that create with total freedom.

Blessed are the developers who create something bold and unique.

Blessed are the developers who realize that just because a genre is old doesn't mean it's tired.

Blessed are the gamers smart enough to expand their experiences in the hobby.

Corinthians 16:8

Well said.

Speaks volumes when the 4th most played game for the last 2 weeks on steam is a free2play minecraft meets day z incredibly low production values, yet is fun as hell on large servers.... 60k people playing it after 2 weeks at peak.

Best part... its made by one 16 year old boy... and hes updating it often and talking to the community on steam often.

The most embarassing bit? it practicaly has as much content as Day Z stand alone..... ofcourse graphics is a massive comparison, but given that all the graphical assets were already half done from ARMA 2 .... hardly impressive.

What's the name of the game bro? I want to check it out.

Unturned, I warn you it is low production value... but has some sort of fun factor if you like the style of game.

#44 Edited by MBirdy88 (8057 posts) -

@vickissv2 said:

@bldgirsh said:

@vickissv2 said:

Because most of them barely constitute as serious games. Cheesy basement brews and grad school projects being passed off as legit. It's not all of them , but it's most. It's not what people buy new consoles for , especially when most of them also look stuck in the mid 2000s graphically, and most could be mobile games. Of course there are exceptions, but overall it detracts from the quality of gaming overall.

I agree, we need more AAA shooters!

We just need more AAA indies in general.

no... we need more great gameplay games, and less AAA movie trash regardless of budget or graphics.

#45 Posted by TheEroica (13419 posts) -

@MBirdy88: "no... we need more great gameplay games, and less AAA movie trash regardless of budget or graphics."

Spot on... so many are so quick to bash a 2d side scroller or puzzle game, paying absolutely no mind to the fact that said platformer has ten times the gameplay intricacies and challenge in a single level as our AAA'S do in their entirety...

You can actually beat games like Bioshock and pop08 with zero consequences in dying. These things are real...

Not that a great game or gameplay is solely determined by challenge or difficulty, but again, these games are not all going for the same thing... live and let live.

#46 Posted by MlauTheDaft (3650 posts) -

@turtlethetaffer said:

Indie games are fun, at least, (SURPRISE) the good ones are fun, just like how the good AAA games are the fun ones. I do think that indie gets overblown sometimes (I really enjoyed the recent Shovel Knight but people are calling it one of the greatest games of all time and I'm just not seeing it) and people place too much value on it but still, there are good indie titles and there are good AAA titles. Hell, one of my favorite games I've played this year is Hotline Miami. that is a game I'd be comfortable in saying is original without being pretentious.

But with titles like Journey? I can understand the emotional reaction to it, I guess, but people calling it GOTY? The game is about two hours long and has almost no replay value, and the actual gameplay that is there is rather sparse. No, it's not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination, but holy shit did that game get more hype than was deserved. That's an example where I think that people placed far too much value on it being Indie. Now, I can appreciate that the developers were working at something completely different and I like that. New ideas are always a good thing. But the end result is good for one, maybe two play throughs at most (around 4 or 5 hours of play time) and then there's nothing left to it.

Have you played FTL? Esp with the advanced edition its flat out amazing

+1

It's much better than most AAA games tbh.