Good-Bye Nintendo

I have been saying this for some time, and it has been misinterpreted over and over again. I've been called an elitist, biased, a hater, whatever....

Nintendo is hurting gaming.

Frankly, what Nintendo is doing right now is appealing to a market that's not us - the longtime gamer - but a market that is *them* - people who don't like videogames - people who play things like DDR, Guitar Hero, and Jane Fonda workout tapes. They shoved us aside with the Wii - in fact, look at Reggies' comments for the past two years - they *are no longer interested* in catering to us.

At their press conference, Nintendo kept telling us "you're wrong". Over and over, in fact. They told us what to think. They told us "oh, you're wrong, this is gaming for everyone" - they essentially acted like "hehehe you're stupid, you don't get it." The reality is, they know this isn't gaming for us, they know we don't enjoy these games - but they figure, "hey, if we can tell some Nintendo diehards that we're making gaming *better*, maybe we can drag them along".

Everything they're doing right now is about catering to sales from a lucrative market - a market we've been calling "casuals" - but in retrospect we should have kept calling "non-gamers". Casuals *used to be* a market that pumped their chests for Madden and Halo - what we have here is a new beast entirely.


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For a minute, just concede that Nintendo doesn't care. Why are they harming gaming? Because they control so many nostalgic series. I had to give this up *a long time ago*. As an early Sega fan, I had to accept that my favorite games - such as Sonic the Hedgehog - were no longer the same. I had to come to terms with the parent company Sega losing their minds - Sonic 3D Blast helped a great deal to drive that reality home, and by the time I played Sonic Shuffle and Sonic Adventure 2, it became easier to accept that Sega was going downhill.

Nintendo isn't dying, they were though, they were dying, losing marketshare, and they found this huge new market with the Wii... and unfortunately, much like Sega, they hold our old favorites hostage. So what do we get? Our best games come with concessions - Metroid Prime 3 will be built around "the zapper", goes back to stacked beams, and features basically a "turbo charged" mode -why? All in the interest of making the bastion of Nintendo's "hardcore" catalog still sell to some of the same people who will buy Wii Fitness.

They are trying to blend the ****c franchises into the Wii Sports / Play / Fitness market

Twilight Princess was one of the easiest Zelda games I've ever played, Super Paper Mario was time-consuming, but not exactly *challenging*, and Super Smash Brawl might not feature online gameplay.

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And that was, by far, one of the worst parts of the show - "made you didn't notice that we already have online gameplay?" ... maybe Nintendo didn't notice that PC, Xbox 360, and PS3 have services that are lightyears ahead of what I do on a DS or Wii? I don't feel like I have "the world" in the palm of my hand when I play Mario Kart online on my DS - I feel like I might as well be playing against the AI - I can't identify if I'm really playing the same people again, there's no ranking, I can't talk to my opponents, I can't see my opponents - where is the online social interaction?

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I feel that Nintendo has realized that online doesn't matter to increase DS / Wii sales, so they're not doing it - that simply they said "building a service like PSN costs too much money, and look at the people buying a Wii, they don't care." I do care, however, it's important for me. I have friends and family all over the world - being able to see their face and hear their voice while I play is vital - it makes it so I'm playing a racing game with my little brother, even though he's in another city - it makes it so I can talk to the other gamers in my Halo clan, even though they're in Denmark. Nintendo's issue isn't that they "don't get it" - it's that their current salesbase says "I can go to YouTube and MySpace on my Wii - Wii does it all!"

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Nintendo is in a situation where, quite frankly, we, the longtime gamers, are supporting them out of nostalgia. If the actual *games* Nintendo is releasing - Metroid, Mario, Smash, et cetera - were the same games, but with new characters and titles, would we be buying them. Honestly, look in your heart and tell me you'd buy MP3 without the "M". This doesn't just apply to Nintendo - Halo 3 *looks awful* by comparisson to other FPS titles coming out this year - it hasn't *evolved* enough - the FPS genre moves and improve so quickly - yet Halo 3 looks archaic. Yet MP3 looks *even more* archaic, and we support it, why? Because it's Metroid. I'm as guilty as the next guy of doing this.

I'm sorry, this all might not be the level of logic or cohesiveness I usually have - I have no intention of becoming a fanboy or a hater or anything else, but I'm done with Nintendo - I am washing my hands of them. For me it's about more than the games, it's also about the vision behind those games, about what you're trying to do with them. Yesterday's showcase was a disgusting display of chest-pounding arrogance and a clear showing that Nintendo does not view games as art.

"Games are for everyone" doesn't mean you should stop making games for me. I always thought, as a kid when I played Gameboy, that Nintendo would grow up with me, and they haven't. Sega and Nintendo, hand-in-hand walked me down a brightly coloured path to living gaming - and now both of them are gone. Nintendo... Sega... gone. I thought they were gone last year, and I gave them one last chance here, I tried to be open-minded, but I can't do it anymore.

I cannot accept Nintendo's vision for gaming. I do not support the idea that titles such as Wii Fitness should be showcased as videogames.

I'm done Nintendo. You do what you want to do, you will never get another dollar from me. Say good-bye to the tens of thousands I've spent on your products over the years. Frankly, it's my finest wish that every other longtime Nintendo fan do the same. Hardcore gamers represent a great deal of software sales - as long as we continue to support their "blended" market - where they make *just enough* of a hardcore spin on ****c franchises to tempt us, they will be able to keep being insanely profitable.

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I'm done. I'm sick and tired of having to hold my breath and pray - Sony this year "got it" - they were humble, they showed games, and they said "thanks for being here guys." Nintendo doesn't care. Sonic and Mario standing together in the same game should be enough of a warning sign to longtime gamers - hegehogs and plumbers running down a track together (at the same height, might I add, though Sega keeps changing how tall Sonic is every game, it's getting annoying) is, I believe, one of the signs of the apocalypse.
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Nintendo's world has ended, and I'm done with it. Bye, see ya. Time to get a second or third job, because the future of gaming as I enjoy it does not lie in your competively priced "plug-n-play" remote controlled gaming box.

Wow... best post ever. (I'm being 100% serious)

It almost brought a tear to my eye! because it's the truth. Good job.

not bad

and I totally understand ...

ever since they stuck their target in kiddy games, I was done with Nintendo back in N64 days ...

Very nice.

It seems that everyone feels the same way about Nintendo's "sell-out" now.

IT's sad to admit what they are doing, but they are doing it. I can't say it, I still have hope that you (The TC) have lost for the big N, and that is pathetic on my part.

Nintendo...

Nintendo...

Well, I guess it's tough to let go, but Honestly, I haven't touched my Wii in a few months now...it's tragic, but I thought something was going to happen.

Instead, they make a Wii version of Eyetoy Kinetic, and dumb down Metroid. Why?

Expect a MASSIVE SHEEP BACKLASH to start tomorrow. Nintendo has One more year, then I'm selling the Wii if they don't straighten up.

BTW : I've been saying the same things about the Wii, but Sheep don't want to hear it. It's tough, but I don't like calling my $250 entertainment machine a paperweight, but when I've been relegated to playing VC games that I own on the original console, it's a sad state of affairs for a gamer.

let's not forget the true evil here... MICROSOFTNaiKoN9293

so nintendo should focus on 10% of all gamers :?

although i do agree with you about the conference, it was a shambless, and I do think that nintendo arent doing enough for the hardcore gamers, in online and games.

But, well, they are companies with a business plan in mind. Nintendo are doing what they think is right, they took a gamble and it paid off. Honestly as harcore gamers all we can do is wait. Hopefully something decent will come out of nintendos next 3 days, but honestly, I aint holding my breath just yet.

MP3 is hardcore, galaxy is hardcore(kinda, i donno) and brawl is hardcore enough for pretty much every gamer. that will last for the rest of this year, but nintendo have their work cut out to impress us next year. :(

Absolutely amazing and a post I entirely agree with. You look at the lineup and then you look at the defenses of Nintendo by those who claim to be "hardcore gamers" or say they have played videogames "since I was a little kid" and they are irreconsolable in my mind.

In fact heres my take on it without the infuriated rant that preceded:

Nintendo for all their monopolist and anti-third party attitudes during the NES and SNES eras actually did great things. Reading this you might think that I've always been anti-Nintendo I'm an unconsolable fanboy or that I'm somehow hoping for them to fail and leave the business.

This is not true. Until I was around 7 its true that I only played Atari 2600 but thats because that was all I had. Once we got a Super Nintendo I played it almost religiously. Super Mario World, Super Mario Kart, Super Metroid, Super Mario All-Stars, Star Fox, and a multitude of third-party titles from Capcom to EA to Konami to Activision.

Then I got a N64 before I ever touched a PlayStation. Super Mario 64, Star Fox 64, LoZ: OoT, Super Smash Bros. and I enjoyed them all and I stuck with Nintendo for a time there. But they failed me, not enough games were released by them or third parties, that generation was pretty much defined later on by poor console Pokemon titles and Mario spinoffs and I went to PlayStation.

With GCN I considered it, I still had a Nintendo Power subscription at the time but they didn't release enough and the degradation of quality continued, I didn't even consider the GCN after some point.

Heck, even as late as when the Wii was known of but still mysterious and called the Revolution I still had that subscription and I hoped for the best. Nintendo has once again failed me, they aren't the same company they used to be and my only alternatives are a monopolist I hate (Microsoft) and the still prohibitively expensive alternative (Sony) which I'm not exactly hot about either.

Wow, this issue seems to have gotten you all riled up. I guess I was also riled up, but it was ages ago. The handwriting was on the wall when the Wii's specs and marketing focus were first announced. I'm surprised it's taken so long for real gamers to wake up and give up on Nintendo, but given the direction they've taken, it was inevitable.WeeWeeJumbo

[QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]let's not forget the true evil here... MICROSOFTNatural_Mystic

I agree with all the points you made but i will stick to nintendo for providing a new experience and buy gammes on the 360 and soon the ps3

But, well, they are companies with a business plan in mind. Nintendo are doing what they think is right, they took a gamble and it paid off. Honestly as harcore gamers all we can do is wait. Hopefully something decent will come out of nintendos next 3 days, but honestly, I aint holding my breath just yet.

samusarmada

They took a gamble and it paid off for them, but at our expense. I've tried, I've really tried to look at Nintendo fresh every generation and give them the benefit of the doubt but for the last decade they have been failing me and I can't hold my breath in hopes of getting some of their scraps anymore.

Its not something that I am capable or willing to do. Nintendo has changed entirely with the only remnants of their former glory being old IPs which they beat up like a drunken boyfriend.

Lol, why do you all takethe Wii to be ruining gaming, rather than just giving another option or path for you to take. The PS3 and 360 are not going away because nintendo release games like Wii Fit, they are just expanding the audience that can take part, they are still releasing games that "hardcore" gamers can play. Sorry to sound harsh but if your post is so well thought out, why dont you look at the bigger picture of gaming as a whole and not just ur needs, your saying casuals cant have games and should gtfo?

Its time people got real and realised nintendo isnt doing anything to harm gaming but quite the opposite. They are keeping prices low, pushing the old retro download service to Sony and Microsoft, giving people an option of games. If you dont like nintendogs, dont play it, if you dont like Wii Fit, dont play it, so hard? There will still be games like MP3, and publishers are tring to hit these markets, its just that games are in development now after seeing the success of the Wii, a good game takes a long time.....

It's not always about the hardware specs, it's about the games. I realized that Nintendo was releasing a less powerful box at a rather high price (given the hardware) but that did not automatically doom the system. The PS2 wasn't particularly powerful, and yet it was able to foster amazing games - titles that rivaled what the more powerful Xbox and GCN were doing.

However, when the games have continued to go in the same direction as the hardware, there is nothing left to be salvaged. I will not be plied by a few baubles thrown in a pile of garbage - Nintendo's plans for releasing a few "more hardcore" games per year, without even being able to promise that they'll finally deliver the online platform I was promised before the Gamecube was released, frankly gets no support from me.
subrosian

You can't compare the Tech. differences of the PS2 to the Xbox/GC Vs. the Difference of the Wii to the PS3/360. That was a mistake right there. That's what led to your post in the first place.

The PS2, when it debuted actually was Particularly powerful, and the proof was that it managed to keep up graphically with the Xbox/GC for the most part. Sure, they had better graphics, but it was marginal.

If you want to make a comparison like that, you need to compare the Xbox/GC to the N64. That's what the Wii is but with a DIFFERENT albeit not necessarily better, control scheme.

I do agree though, they could have went a whole different route with the games, but I think with the DS and games like Nintendog's selling like Hotcakes, they realized their next hardware was going to be A LOT more Casual Friendly (Well, Non-Gamer Friendly actually). The Hardcore market is still in "Pine" mode. We are still PINING for the old Nintendo to sweep us of our collective Gamers Feet (Something a Hardcore Gamer would argue his couch already did :) ).

Sigh, i miss the old revolution:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ayBMe5AvwhI

I feel awkard a bit after watching that video. Its sad really, nintendo traded a superior machine for a console to appeal to non-gamers. Heck, i would have preffered a gcn 2 with beefed up specs then what we are gettin now. I want to ask you sheep something, has the wii lived up to the revolution nintendo hyped it to be?

And BTW, very well written post. Greatest post ever.

[QUOTE="samusarmada"]

But, well, they are companies with a business plan in mind. Nintendo are doing what they think is right, they took a gamble and it paid off. Honestly as harcore gamers all we can do is wait. Hopefully something decent will come out of nintendos next 3 days, but honestly, I aint holding my breath just yet.

Runningflame570

They took a gamble and it paid off for them, but at our expense. I've tried, I've really tried to look at Nintendo fresh every generation and give them the benefit of the doubt but for the last decade they have been failing me and I can't hold my breath in hopes of getting some of their scraps anymore.

Its not something that I am capable or willing to do. Nintendo has changed entirely with the only remnants of their former glory being old IPs which they beat up like a drunken boyfriend.

Definately agree with this. People talk about there brilliant IPs but where is anything new. Every IP they boast about has been redone many times

I understand partly with what u are saying. Especially after playing FF3 for the DS. By nintendo trying to dumb down everygam to make it acessible to everyone they are 4getting the hardcore gamer.

Maybe I took this statement too far but when reggie was talking about mario kart he said something like "now new comers will be able to race equally with experienced racers" if that is the case they would have to remove some vital points in mario kart which actually gave the game some depth.

Also hardcore gamers looking forward to the new franchiase got given wii fit.

After all this I havent actually given up hope, the main reason still being the handheld I mentioned, the DS. I still remember that the DS at this time suffered from a severe lack of games that appeal to hardcore gamers, the only game being a port of mario 64.

But can someone explain to me how metroid has been dumbed down. From what I have seen apart from beam stacking (which actually isnt that much of a deal since it didnt require too much thought to realise that a dark monster is weak against light) everything else has improved actually, especially with the improved lock on feature

[QUOTE="Natural_Mystic"][QUOTE="NaiKoN9293"]let's not forget the true evil here... MICROSOFTfunnymario

Lol, why do you all take the Wii to be ruining gaming, rather than just giving another option or path for you to take.

Knewl2

Because I'm fully aware of the repercussions poor quality casual-oriented titles had on the gaming industry and was around personally to see the horrors of the SNES Edutainment games, a kind of horror I had hoped to never see again.

I still hold onto some traditional ideas of what gaming should be and the vast majority of the Wii catalog meets none of these criteria.

Try to be a little more concise next time.

Firstly I must say that these cries of 'Nintendo is ruining gaming!' are wholly reactionary and short-sighted, the current 'Blue Ocean' strategy being pursued by Nintendo irrefutably benefits the whole gaming industry in the long-term. That is where most gamers fail, be they ordinary folks like yourself or 'professional' critics and journalists- we fail to see things in the long-term. Never mind the next year, never mind the next five years. We should be looking towards ten years into the future. A vastly expanded audience now means a greater population of 'core' gamers in the future, these people bring new perspectives, ideas and modes of operation to the industry.

Nintendo are not abandoning the 'hardcore' audience, we still have the same traditional franchises such as Metoid, Zelda, Mario and Smash Bros., furthermore these are all within a year or so of launch. Then there are the untapped franchises such as F-Zero, Donkey Kong, Star Fox,Pikmin, Kirby, Animal Crossing, 1080 and Wave Race. Nintendo are not giving up on the hardcore they are simply shifting their focus, they continue to churn out the same quality titles we all expect; there is just a greater emphasis on the non-gamer. These concessions to the non-gamer are disheartening to the hardcore but ultimately necessary for the industry as a whole, perhaps if other developers also aided in this audience expansion then Nintendo would not have to make such monumental leaps alone.

When I hear Reggie stating that Nintendo wants to compete with all forms of leisure entertainment then that is something radical, whether the effects are readily evident to most is another question. We already see in Japan television audiences waning as they shift to Wii, similarly Wii Fit could reduce gym memberships as a cheaper, more fun form of exercise. The Wii and DS have the capacity to drastically alter the public perception of video-games, if that means a greater acceptance of our hobby as something that is a part of everyday life; then I am content. I realise it is frustrating to feel sidelined as a core gamer but so long as you take a long term perspective these upheavals are much less intimidating.

Good post. Well thought out and I agree with a lot of what you said. I still believe that some of the "Nostalga" games are good to an extent but I don't like the path Nintendo is now going down. I would take teh kiddy games any day of the week over these non games.iwo4life

Alot of developers take years to make great games, alot of them didnt take the Wii serously, it was a gamble after the gamecube, but look at the sales, the games will come, just give them time to be great

I couldn't agree more, it's the main reason why the Wii has never grabbed my interests.

Especially the lack of online capabilities.

I understand partly with what u are saying. Especially after playing FF3 for the DS. By nintendo trying to dumb down everygam to make it acessible to everyone they are 4getting the hardcore gamer.

Maybe I took this statement too far but when reggie was talking about mario kart he said something like "now new comers will be able to race equally with experienced racers" if that is the case they would have to remove some vital points in mario kart which actually gave the game some depth.

Also hardcore gamers looking forward to the new franchiase got given wii fit.

After all this I havent actually given up hope, the main reason still being the handheld I mentioned, the DS. I still remember that the DS at this time suffered from a severe lack of games that appeal to hardcore gamers, the only game being a port of mario 64.

But can someone explain to me how metroid has been dumbed down. From what I have seen apart from beam stacking (which actually isnt that much of a deal since it didnt require too much thought to realise that a dark monster is weak against light) everything else has improved actually, especially with the improved lock on feature

donaldo1989

Its not even about HARDCORE gamers. Its just gamers in general. They spent more time talking non games and showing random non typical gamers enjoying the wii than they did talking up Mariokart, SMG and MP3. Lame.

Did nintendo forget they make the DS or was it just me?

Try to be a little more concise next time.

Firstly I must say that these cries of 'Nintendo is ruining gaming!' are wholly reactionary and short-sighted, the current 'Blue Ocean' strategy being pursued by Nintendo irrefutably benefits the whole gaming industry in the long-term. That is where most gamers fail, be they ordinary folks like yourself or 'professional' critics and journalists- we fail to see things in the long-term. Never mind the next year, never mind the next five years. We should be looking towards ten years into the future. A vastly expanded audience now means a greater population of 'core' gamers in the future, these people bring new perspectives, ideas and modes of operation to the industry.

Nintendo are not abandoning the 'hardcore' audience, we still have the same traditional franchises such as Metoid, Zelda, Mario and Smash Bros., furthermore these are all within a year or so of launch. Then there are the untapped franchises such as F-Zero, Donkey Kong, Star Fox,Pikmin, Kirby, Animal Crossing, 1080 and Wave Race. Nintendo are not giving up on the hardcore they are simply shifting their focus, they continue to churn out the same quality titles we all expect; there is just a greater emphasis on the non-gamer. These concessions to the non-gamer are disheartening to the hardcore but ultimately necessary for the industry as a whole, perhaps if other developers also aided in this audience expansion then Nintendo would not have to make such monumental leaps alone.

When I hear Reggie stating that Nintendo wants to compete with all forms of leisure entertainment then that is something radical, whether the effects are readily evident to most is another question. We already see in Japan television audiences waning as they shift to Wii, similarly Wii Fit could reduce gym memberships as a cheaper, more fun form of exercise. The Wii and DS have the capacity to drastically alter the public perception of video-games, if that means a greater acceptance of our hobby as something that is a part of everyday life; then I am content. I realise it is frustrating to feel sidelined as a core gamer but so long as you take a long term perspective these upheavals are much less intimidating.

Caviglia

Who's going to care in 10 years?? If you're constantly looking ahead, you can never see whats right in front of you. If you don't start looking in the present you're going to trip and *boom* WiiFIT

I have been saying this for some time, and it has been misinterpreted over and over again. I've been called an elitist, biased, a hater, whatever....

Nintendo is hurting gaming.

Frankly, what Nintendo is doing right now is appealing to a market that's not us - the longtime gamer - but a market that is *them* - people who don't like videogames - people who play things like DDR, Guitar Hero, and Jane Fonda workout tapes. They shoved us aside with the Wii - in fact, look at Reggies' comments for the past two years - they *are no longer interested* in catering to us.subrosian

How are Guitar Hero and DDR just catering to non-players? Just look at neogaf for example, a lot of the people are going completely crazy over rockband and that's one of the most hardcore gaming communities on the web.

Also, if they're no longer interested in catering to gamers, why are they putting so much work in their main gaming series? According to Kojima Super Smash Bros Brawl felt finished months ago, yet they're still improving on it. Same for Metroid Prime 3, the devs said that the game could be released months ago and it would have been great, yet Nintendo wants them to improve it even more.

At their press conference, Nintendo kept telling us "you're wrong". Over and over, in fact. They told us what to think. They told us "oh, you're wrong, this is gaming for everyone" - they essentially acted like "hehehe you're stupid, you don't get it." The reality is, they know this isn't gaming for us, they know we don't enjoy these games - but they figure, "hey, if we can tell some Nintendo diehards that we're making gaming *better*, maybe we can drag them along".

Everything they're doing right now is about catering to sales from a lucrative market - a market we've been calling "casuals" - but in retrospect we should have kept calling "non-gamers". Casuals *used to be* a market that pumped their chests for Madden and Halo - what we have here is a new beast entirely.

The Nintendo press conference wasn't aimed at us. Keep in mind that there's mainstream press at the E3 as well. With the good feedback that Nintendo has been getting from this press, it would have been stupid not to aim a conference at them. Also, the main press is mainly interested in the conference. But the gaming press will look at everything at the showfloor as well. And that's where Nintendo is showing some great demos.

For a minute, just concede that Nintendo doesn't care. Why are they harming gaming? Because they control so many nostalgic series. I had to give this up *a long time ago*. As an early Sega fan, I had to accept that my favorite games - such as Sonic the Hedgehog - were no longer the same. I had to come to terms with the parent company Sega losing their minds - Sonic 3D Blast helped a great deal to drive that reality home, and by the time I played Sonic Shuffle and Sonic Adventure 2, it became easier to accept that Sega was going downhill.

Nintendo isn't dying, they were though, they were dying, losing marketshare, and they found this huge new market with the Wii... and unfortunately, much like Sega, they hold our old favorites hostage. So what do we get? Our best games come with concessions - Metroid Prime 3 will be built around "the zapper", goes back to stacked beams, and features basically a "turbo charged" mode -why? All in the interest of making the bastion of Nintendo's "hardcore" catalog still sell to some of the same people who will buy Wii Fitness.

Like I said, if Nintendo wouldn't be interested in gamers anymore, they wouldn't put in as much time on their main games as they're doing. And how are those metroid prime features concessions? It's actually not build for the Zapper (You have to use your left and right hand independently in the game, not possible with that thing) and even if it would I don't see how it would have any effect on how hardcore it is. And beam stacking? It's a feature from Super Metroid, are you telling me that wasn't hardcore? And the hyper-mode? It fits in perfectly with the prime story. Probably something Retro had planned from the beginning. Plus it actually makes the gameplay deeper. You can't use it all the time, so it just adds another decision you have to make during playing.

They are trying to blend the ****c franchises into the Wii Sports / Play / Fitness market

Twilight Princess was one of the easiest Zelda games I've ever played, Super Paper Mario was time-consuming, but not exactly *challenging*, and Super Smash Brawl might not feature online gameplay.

Twilight Princess was easy, but not any easier then Wind Waker. What does Brawl not being online (which is just a rumor) have to do with making the game more casual?

I'm done Nintendo. You do what you want to do, you will never get another dollar from me. Say good-bye to the tens of thousands I've spent on your products over the years. Frankly, it's my finest wish that every other longtime Nintendo fan do the same. Hardcore gamers represent a great deal of software sales - as long as we continue to support their "blended" market - where they make *just enough* of a hardcore spin on ****c franchises to tempt us, they will be able to keep being insanely profitable.

I'm done. I'm sick and tired of having to hold my breath and pray - Sony this year "got it" - they were humble, they showed games, and they said "thanks for being here guys." Nintendo doesn't care. Sonic and Mario standing together in the same game should be enough of a warning sign to longtime gamers - hegehogs and plumbers running down a track together (at the same height, might I add, though Sega keeps changing how tall Sonic is every game, it's getting annoying) is, I believe, one of the signs of the apocalypse.

Nintendo's world has ended, and I'm done with it. Bye, see ya. Time to get a second or third job, because the future of gaming as I enjoy it does not lie in your competively priced "plug-n-play" remote controlled gaming box.

As long as there are games being made for Nintendo platforms that lookfun (like Galaxy, Prime 3 and Brawl) I'll keep playing it. Why would you not? Because you think they're too casual? Face it, something like metroid will never be casual.

Try to be a little more concise next time.

Firstly I must say that these cries of 'Nintendo is ruining gaming!' are wholly reactionary and short-sighted, the current 'Blue Ocean' strategy being pursued by Nintendo irrefutably benefits the whole gaming industry in the long-term.

Caviglia

It is just not Nintendo who is doing games like Wii Fittness. If you really wan't to think about it blame Sony not Nintendo. Sony started the whole casual freindlly line of games with Singstar and Eye toy games. The only thing Nintendo is doing is improving on what they started. Some Non-games have become blockbusters and we call them games. I'm talking about Rock Band, Guitar Hero, and DDR.

Don't lay this all on the shoulders of Nintendo they are just taking advantage of an opening Sony showed the industry. Yes they are focusing a great deal on casuals but who can blame them. They were getting killed trying to compete in the hardcore market against Microsoft and Sony so they moved their gameplan on something those two companies don't focus on that very often.

Its sad not seeing zelda, one of my most favourite series leap in graphics but instead get tacked on with a remote controller. I dont see how wii was a revolution. I have still not seen a reason to why the new remote control is better then a regular controller. Wiifit? What kind of crap is this!? What a poor E3 show nintendo had. At least sony and MS were not gloating about getting grandmas to play the wii.ganon42

dont worry about zelda yet, since zelda tp was a gc port. Im sure there will be another zelda on the wii, but I hope they decide not to dumb it down.

Hurting gaming? :lol:

So coming up with a $500+ console and games that are so expensive and risky to make thus they rarely change (fps shooters + xbox360 anyone?) is NOT hurting gaming???

I disagree 100% with everything you wrote.

[QUOTE="Caviglia"]

Try to be a little more concise next time.

Firstly I must say that these cries of 'Nintendo is ruining gaming!' are wholly reactionary and short-sighted, the current 'Blue Ocean' strategy being pursued by Nintendo irrefutably benefits the whole gaming industry in the long-term.

subrosian

What is wrong with Metroid?! There must be something I missed because u r worrying me now.

So let me see if I can summarize that wall of text: "Nintendo is ruining gaming because they don't make games that I like." Also, great implication that your tastes = taste of all 'hardcore' gamers. Ego much?bexarath

Hurting gaming? :lol:

So coming up with a $500+ console and games that are so expensive and risky to make thus they rarely change (fps shooters + xbox360 anyone?) is NOT hurting gaming???

Gangans

Apparently not as much as aerobics simulations.

[QUOTE="ganon42"]Its sad not seeing zelda, one of my most favourite series leap in graphics but instead get tacked on with a remote controller. I dont see how wii was a revolution. I have still not seen a reason to why the new remote control is better then a regular controller. Wiifit? What kind of crap is this!? What a poor E3 show nintendo had. At least sony and MS were not gloating about getting grandmas to play the wii.donaldo1989

dont worry about zelda yet, since zelda tp was a gc port. Im sure there will be another zelda on the wii, but I hope they decide not to dumb it down.

[QUOTE="Caviglia"]

Try to be a little more concise next time.

Firstly I must say that these cries of 'Nintendo is ruining gaming!' are wholly reactionary and short-sighted, the current 'Blue Ocean' strategy being pursued by Nintendo irrefutably benefits the whole gaming industry in the long-term. That is where most gamers fail, be they ordinary folks like yourself or 'professional' critics and journalists- we fail to see things in the long-term. Never mind the next year, never mind the next five years. We should be looking towards ten years into the future. A vastly expanded audience now means a greater population of 'core' gamers in the future, these people bring new perspectives, ideas and modes of operation to the industry.

Nintendo are not abandoning the 'hardcore' audience, we still have the same traditional franchises such as Metoid, Zelda, Mario and Smash Bros., furthermore these are all within a year or so of launch. Then there are the untapped franchises such as F-Zero, Donkey Kong, Star Fox,Pikmin, Kirby, Animal Crossing, 1080 and Wave Race. Nintendo are not giving up on the hardcore they are simply shifting their focus, they continue to churn out the same quality titles we all expect; there is just a greater emphasis on the non-gamer. These concessions to the non-gamer are disheartening to the hardcore but ultimately necessary for the industry as a whole, perhaps if other developers also aided in this audience expansion then Nintendo would not have to make such monumental leaps alone.

When I hear Reggie stating that Nintendo wants to compete with all forms of leisure entertainment then that is something radical, whether the effects are readily evident to most is another question. We already see in Japan television audiences waning as they shift to Wii, similarly Wii Fit could reduce gym memberships as a cheaper, more fun form of exercise. The Wii and DS have the capacity to drastically alter the public perception of video-games, if that means a greater acceptance of our hobby as something that is a part of everyday life; then I am content. I realise it is frustrating to feel sidelined as a core gamer but so long as you take a long term perspective these upheavals are much less intimidating.

funnymario

Who's going to care in 10 years?? If you're constantly looking ahead, you can never see whats right in front of you. If you don't start looking in the present you're going to trip and *boom* WiiFIT

Because in 10 years a significant proportion of the current influx of non-gamers will have matured into core gamers creating a bigger demand for more 'hardcore' games in addition to new ideas and perspectives that will shape these games. Nintendo's moves at present have the short-term aim of expanding the audience (and gaining a whole lot of profit) but the real interest lies in the outcome a decade or so down the line. Of course you must also examine the tactical actions of Nintendo but too many people here are failing to see the forest for the trees. I acknowledge that in the short-term experiencedcore gamers, like myself, are going to feel disillusioned at the tectonic shifts in our hobby; I am sure many will give up on Nintendo and so be it. However they will be back in ten years time.

-cut because there are no spaces-

kipknots

Nintendo may not do Anything at all to cater to hardcore gamers, and it wouldn't hurt us one bit. I honestly don't see the problem.
As there become more and more people capable and willing to get involved with games, the amount of core gamers will rise, and the amount of developers and gaming talent too.
KungfuKitten