GG is still not an "elite" class dev.

It is not.

It is not Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica.

Please, do not compare it to Blizzard or Valve when it comes to gameplay engineering.

Sure, it has developed 2 graphically stuning games over the recent years; but its overall attention to polish is still not at the peak of the slope yet.

Now, accuse me of trolling because I have an opinion, which is based on some credible information.

To be "inducted" into the elite class developer, a particular developer must have: a consistently good track record, changed people's perception on any arbritary genre, and not only good at visual engineering.

WAIT...

But Crysis 2 should determine on whether or not Crytek is an elite.

Graphics are the single most important feature for console owners. THEY ARE DA KINGS!!!!!!!!!!

no one said they were :?funsohng

my thoughts exactly, I've never seen someone here say they are.

They have made some better then average games though

I agree, but they are going in that direction. It takes consistency like you said, as well as time. I think they can pull it off. Hella talented people over there. You must've argued with someone who said otherwise, huh?

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

Why make this thread twice when I doubt many (if any) will argue anyway?

Why make this thread twice when I doubt many (if any) will argue anyway?

SapSacPrime

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

Cow-101

[QUOTE="Cow-101"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

DarkLink77

Change perspective on a genre? Pretty much any shooter feels quite bland after playing KZ. Good enough? The gunplay is unmatched, and that's what the genre is all about.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

Cow-101

I think 120 GOTY awards are not enough for him

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

[QUOTE="Cow-101"] Naughty Dog is an elite dev, how many devs do you know that can make a game as good as uncharted 2funsohng

No, you're completely right. Frontier developed Elite.

No, you're completely right. Frontier developed Elite.

vadicta

[QUOTE="funsohng"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Oh, boy, a level one account with one post. I'll respond anyway. They have made one, count 'em, ONE utterly fantastic game: Uncharted 2. They have not proven that they can do it consistently. Thus, they are not an top tier dev. They aren't bad, but they're not in the same league as the Nintendos, Blzzards, and BioWares and Bungies of this industry. They just aren't.DarkLink77

Graphics are the single most important feature for console owners. THEY ARE DA KINGS!!!!!!!!!!

Fizzman

-Best graphics on consoles -Most attention to detail -Fantastic, innovative multiplayer never seen in any game before or since (name ONE OTHER GAME with a Warzone mode) -Incredible immersion factors -They are the best at making shooters that feel like you're controlling a PERSON not a camera with arms -They pioneered the deferred rendering technique now employed by all PS3 developers -They have created one of the most interesting and richly detailed sci-fi universes ever So what is you justification they aren't top teir? Your retarded fanboyism? Gotcha. Perchance have your parents taken part in any consensual cosanguination studies? HaloArcula

No.:|

and you need to chill

I never remember hearing this!!:|

Whoever stated they was?

[QUOTE="funsohng"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Oh, boy, a level one account with one post. I'll respond anyway. They have made one, count 'em, ONE utterly fantastic game: Uncharted 2. They have not proven that they can do it consistently. Thus, they are not an top tier dev. They aren't bad, but they're not in the same league as the Nintendos, Blzzards, and BioWares and Bungies of this industry. They just aren't.

DarkLink77

Oh please and who made you king of deciding wats a top tier game.

[QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Graphics are the single most important feature for console owners. THEY ARE DA KINGS!!!!!!!!!!

Doolz2024

[QUOTE="Doolz2024"][QUOTE="Fizzman"]

Graphics are the single most important feature for console owners. THEY ARE DA KINGS!!!!!!!!!!

spartan-kratos

Consoles are not the kings of anything. PC's are the kings, while the consoles are the peasants/serfs. You think games like KZ3 are WOWZORS INSANE, but they are average if you game on a PC.

It is not.

It is not Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica.

Please, do not compare it to Blizzard or Valve when it comes to gameplay engineering.

Sure, it has developed 2 graphically stuning games over the recent years; but its overall attention to polish is still not at the peak of the slope yet.

Now, accuse me of trolling because I have an opinion, which is based on some credible information.

To be "inducted" into the elite class developer, a particular developer must have: a consistently good track record, changed people's perception on any arbritary genre, and not only good at visual engineering.

WAIT...

But Crysis 2 should determine on whether or not Crytek is an elite.

Ravenchrome

No, Geurilla Games is not an elite dev but they are sure as heck making their way up there. Killzone 2 improved so much on Killzone 1. The felt worlds apart. Also Killzone 3 is no doubt console graphics king and GG are some of the most skilled in the industry when it comes to visuals.

Crytek is not an elite dev as well. Crysis 1 had incredible visuals and ok gameplay, nothing much. They are on about the same level as GG.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="funsohng"] The Crash games and (apparently) Jak games were pretty good.finalfantasy94

Oh please and who made you king of deciding wats a top tier game.

[QUOTE="spartan-kratos"][QUOTE="Doolz2024"]No, they are most important to cows, not console owners in general.Fizzman

Consoles are not the kings of anything. PC's are the kings, while the consoles are the peasants/serfs. You think games like KZ3 are WOWZORS INSANE, but they are average if you game on a PC.

who said they were TheGrudge13

HaloArcula did a few posts above.

[QUOTE="TheGrudge13"]who said they were alfredooo

HaloArcula did a few posts above.

Sure they are if I say they are. These titles are opinions, even if there was a committee to establish who's elite or not, it's still just an opinion from a committee.

[QUOTE="Cow-101"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

DarkLink77

I haven't seen GG exercise their own creativity since killzone liberation. their current console outings are constrained by the demand for shallow spectacle and competition with call of duty.

that "richly detailed sci-fi universe" is also quite sadly hobbled by the demand for planned sequels and main characters designed to have no connection with the world or any other weight to them. there's no significance to any action when the helghast can just pull an entire fleet of reinforcements from their ass after being established as being in the underdog position (albiet, a cornered, frothing-at-the-mouth underdog)

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

I think Naughty Dog is fersure an "elite" developer. If you want to join the correct side of the argument (mine), you have to realize that when talking about something that extends beyond System Wars, scores don't matter. At all. Naughty Dog hasn't developed a "bad" game since like... the 80's. Before they were even with Universal and working next door to Insomniac. Their track record is more than great, it's fantastic. The original Crash Bandicoot series, the Jak & Daxter's, Uncharted, Uncharted 2; arguably the best game of the generation, and now they've risen through the ranks to become Sony's most important developer. November 1st is circled on every PS3 owners calendar as the most important day of the year. Whats, that? The topic is about GG? Yeah they're pretty good. Not Naughty Dog good. They can create one hell of a universe and stuff, but they need to hire some writers. Killzone could use some likable characters and MGS-esque plot twists please!Not-A-Stalker

they don't need plot twists, they just need a good story that reasonably follows cause and effect and has a conclusion without jerking the player around as if it was called "Trollzone 2" or something.

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

Merex760

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]I think Naughty Dog is fersure an "elite" developer. If you want to join the correct side of the argument (mine), you have to realize that when talking about something that extends beyond System Wars, scores don't matter. At all. Naughty Dog hasn't developed a "bad" game since like... the 80's. Before they were even with Universal and working next door to Insomniac. Their track record is more than great, it's fantastic. The original Crash Bandicoot series, the Jak & Daxter's, Uncharted, Uncharted 2; arguably the best game of the generation, and now they've risen through the ranks to become Sony's most important developer. November 1st is circled on every PS3 owners calendar as the most important day of the year. Whats, that? The topic is about GG? Yeah they're pretty good. Not Naughty Dog good. They can create one hell of a universe and stuff, but they need to hire some writers. Killzone could use some likable characters and MGS-esque plot twists please!Mordred19

they don't need plot twists, they just need a good story that reasonably follows cause and effect and has a conclusion without jerking the player around as if it was called "Trollzone 2" or something.

[QUOTE="Merex760"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

DarkLink77

[QUOTE="Merex760"]

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"]

Nope, they aren't. Bungie is, Valve is, Blizzard is, Nintendo is, Sony Santa Monica MIGHT be (maybe, but you could make the argument), BioWare is, etc. Studios like that are few and far between.

Oh, and Naughty Dog isn't. They are far too inconsistent as a studio.

DarkLink77

They're pretty much a God of War factory. If I had one complaint about them, is that I wish they would come out with a new IP. They're supposedly lending some talent to the new Twisted Metal though.

Metacritics from SCE Santa Monica.

God of War - 94

God of War 2 - 93

God of War 3 - 92

GoW: Ghost of Sparta - 86

GoW: Chains of Olympus - 91

GoW Collection - 91

flOw - 81 (collaboration w/ ThatGameCompany)

Valve and Blizzard are the only two deserving the "elite" status. Sorry, consolites.

[QUOTE="Mordred19"]

[QUOTE="Not-A-Stalker"]I think Naughty Dog is fersure an "elite" developer. If you want to join the correct side of the argument (mine), you have to realize that when talking about something that extends beyond System Wars, scores don't matter. At all. Naughty Dog hasn't developed a "bad" game since like... the 80's. Before they were even with Universal and working next door to Insomniac. Their track record is more than great, it's fantastic. The original Crash Bandicoot series, the Jak & Daxter's, Uncharted, Uncharted 2; arguably the best game of the generation, and now they've risen through the ranks to become Sony's most important developer. November 1st is circled on every PS3 owners calendar as the most important day of the year. Whats, that? The topic is about GG? Yeah they're pretty good. Not Naughty Dog good. They can create one hell of a universe and stuff, but they need to hire some writers. Killzone could use some likable characters and MGS-esque plot twists please!Not-A-Stalker

they don't need plot twists, they just need a good story that reasonably follows cause and effect and has a conclusion without jerking the player around as if it was called "Trollzone 2" or something.

I was going to post a pic of M Night Sham-Wow-alon, but changed my mind

personally, I am getting tired of the plot twist trend in games, a plot twist is not even necessary to mess with someone's head (if you want head-messing action)

for instance, did Inglorious Basterds have a plot twist? not really, but the moral ambiguities, the tension, the suspense, the characters, those all made a great story to watch unfold and it was capable of haunting the viewer and staying with them after the movie was over.