Fact: Pokemon X/Y aren't the best Pokemon games this year

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#1 Edited by Blabadon (26562 posts) -
What? There are other things on the 3DS besides Pokemon?

That's right System Warriors, you 'dun goofed this year. Hundreds, thousands, millions of you may have flocked to the 3DS to eat up the next meaty installment of GameFreak's long running monster-collecting series. Some of you did so because you thought Pokemon X and Y weren't going to be disappointments; some of you did so because you needed another fix of the wonderful monsters in 3D; some of you did so because you're finalstar in which case I'm sorry you're finalstar.

But looking outside the vacuum of GameFreak's "one step forwards, five steps backwards" developing strategy that took a forefront in Pokemon X and Y, the 3DS had an illustrious year of games which many of you ignored. One of them was in fact, another monster-collecting game with its own overworlds, place to explore, and monsters to capture recruit.

What's that? Recruiting monsters? Insulting Pokemon X and Y? Footsteps?

I'll break it down for you guys in bullet points. Feel free to dispute any points:

1) Shin Megami Tensei IV's characters and story are infinitely more interesting than Pokemon X and Y's.

  • Sure, the Pokemon series was never known for its story nor were its characters going to last a place in our hearts other than their existence being a wonderful way for us to grind out some experience points. But Pokemon X and Y regressed further than any Pokemon title before it. The fifth generation of Pokemon attempted to bring a story that had moral sides and even brought upon a sequel to wrap up some loose ends and bring more story points. X and Y, however, flop in their rushed attempts to bring upon any interesting story points at the end of the journey and have an overall awful, annoying cast of main characters. Pokemon Red and Blue, in their wonderful simplicity, were more focused and less atrocious than X and Y.
  • Shin Megami Tensei IV, however, has a wonderfully interesting story. Its unconventional twists, murky characters, and three separate endings that aren't just based upon an end choice, but decided on based on collective choices made along the journey. It's extremely thematic, has a strange media res beginning, and has characters that, while not the strongest ever in a game, are interesting and bring up different sides to arguments all throughout the tale. In that, the story itself brings a replayability factor to SMT IV.

Winner: SMT IV

2) Shin Megami Tensei is realized more fully outside of its battle system than X and Y.

  • Pokemon X and Y finally made the long-anticipated full jump to the third dimension on handhelds, introducing the Kalos region. I was highly excited for this leap forward; imagine all the different camera angles now from Black and White now fully realized, the different weather patterns of Diamond and Pearl and Ruby and Sapphire affecting gameplay more than ever, and more. But let's be serious, outside of a few locations, the 3D jump barely affected the overworld. The overhead camera angle was once again utilized for a majority of the game and was disappointing. We got a glimpse of what could be in Castelia City in Pokemon Black and White and even the GameCube titles. X and Y, barring a few cool caves and one large city, did not deliver on that promise in its overworld. For some reason, the tile system was still in place and the running shoes were replaced by the polarizing roller skates. It all comes together to provide a solid, but inconsistent overworld that didn't even utilize the 3DS' unique effect: 3D.
  • Shin Megami Tensei IV and 3D go together like peanut butter and jelly. Not only does the game allow the 3D effect of the system to be used, but the main character can be controlled from a traditional third-person perspective (imagine Uncharted) or over-the-shoulder. Choices! The overworld is vast, easily bigger than what's on display in X and Y. A large overworld map connects smaller locations where you can see enemies on the map. WHAT? NO RANDOMLY GENERATED BATTLES? THE ABILTY TO SEE (and avoid) ENEMIES BEFORE BATTLE? It's different, and it works. Shin Megami Tensei IV also employs verticality better than Pokemon ever has: Ladders and gaps in cave floors and cityscapes combined with the camera angles of SMT IV lead to a better experience.

Winner: SMT IV

3) The battle system and monster-collecting system of Shin Megami Tensei is the natural evolution Pokemon never has had.

  • You won't find me complaining about the depth in Pokemon's intricate battle system. It's extremely varied, full of statistics for those who care yet engaging for those who don't. X and Y add the best looking Pokemon yet to the one-on-one fray of the series, although I wouldn't have minded more being there. The third dimension also allows for some favorite battles from the past to be recreated with a whole new sense of imagination. In other words, you won't find too many complaints from me here...
  • because I didn't know that Shin Megami Tensei IV existed, like many of you today. The battle system here is great. Aside from having the aforementioned ability to see the enemies before battles, you can also convert these demons into your enemies without the use of any balls. Instead, you talk with them. You can ask them to join your team and then begin a negotiating process. Do you pander to the demon's wants? Do you answer their random questions in a menacing fashion? It's your choice, and sometimes it can lead to your misfortune, while others, it can lead to a different demon joining you altogether. Fusion from these demons can lead to stronger demons as well as evolution, proving a variety of ways to extract demons. Even the main characters can be customized to have better armor and weapons like a traditional RPG. Not only that, but Shin Megami Tensei utilizes the series' famous Press-Turn System, where you can link weaknesses (similar to Pokemon's rock-paper-scissors gameplay) together for extra turns. Combine that with more items, more party members, having four party members at once, more boss fights, the ability to fight hordes of monsters at once, more side quests, and applications to buy in-game for you to extract money from demons for extra fun (and much, much more), and you have a system you didn't even know you wanted.

Winner: SMT IV... but we'll give Pokemon props. It does have, well, Pokemon and multiplayer

So what say you to my TL;DR post System Wars? Are you going to join the demon-slaying cause of the Mikado Kingdom? Or are you going to pander to a disappointing title in Pokemon X and Y?

#2 Posted by Blabadon (26562 posts) -

TL;DR Version

Pokemon X and Y

- Disheartening lack of an attempt at a decent story in X and Y after Black and White

- Annoying characters

- Finalstar likes this game

- Didn't jump into the third dimension like it should have

- No use of 3D, and laggy battles with it

- Finalstar likes this game

- Battle system is great, but it's very similar

- It has the best set of Pokemon yet

Shin Megami Tensei IV

- Interesting story that doesn't adhere to JRPG conventions with characters aren't annoying and have motivations that make you think

- Proper use of 3D, choices of different, better camera angles

- Larger, more varied and interesting overworld with better use of verticality to enhance exploration

- The ability to recruit demons, have them join your party due to fear of their deaths or proper negotiation

- More party members at once, more at tow, and the ability to fuse them to create better members. Evolutions are still here.

- Applications to bolster gameplay in all sorts of ways along with all sorts of armors and weapons to enhance your main character

- Battle system that has a similar rock-paper-scissors gameplay mechanic with the famous Press-Turn system on top of it.

#3 Posted by Ultrabeatdown55 (15314 posts) -

Played both. Beat both. Loved both.

#4 Posted by Blabadon (26562 posts) -

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:

Played both. Beat both. Loved both.

This isn't conflicting enough of a first post, could you be a little more partial please?

#5 Posted by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

Don't even compare Pokemon to that mediocre franchise

#6 Edited by Ultrabeatdown55 (15314 posts) -
@Blabadon said:

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:

Played both. Beat both. Loved both.

This isn't conflicting enough of a first post, could you be a little more partial please?

Lol sure.

Pokemon was more Pokemon to me. It was a slight evolution that satisfied me as a player that started at Red/Blue. On the other hand, I will say I had more fun and did play SMT more than Pokemon due to the story and characters and the demons and how you interact with them. SMT was way more fresh to me, and had more content. I think I'm comfortable saying SMT is the better game, but Pokemon was still stellar.

Yes I just used the word stellar.

I will say this which might throw my opinion under the bus, but this was my first main title SMT game, and the only other game I've played in that universe was Persona 4 Golden, which isn't the same. So I essentially had no expectations for that, which might be why I enjoyed it so much.

#7 Posted by Sweenix (5399 posts) -

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:
@Blabadon said:

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:

Played both. Beat both. Loved both.

This isn't conflicting enough of a first post, could you be a little more partial please?

Lol sure.

Pokemon was more Pokemon to me. It was a slight evolution that satisfied me as a player that started at Red/Blue. On the other hand, I will say I had more fun and did play SMT more than Pokemon due to the story and characters and the demons and how you interact with them. SMT was way more fresh to me, and had more content. I think I'm comfortable saying SMT is the better game, but Pokemon was still stellar.

Yes I just used the word stellar.

Pokemon is never about it's story, nor it's characters, it's about the gameplay, and there isn't a turn based rpg, more enthralling then pokemon

Not to mention, it's soundtrack is better, it's post game content is better, it's theme is better.. i mean let's compare a beautiful lavish world, to a grunge setting, not even close.

#8 Edited by Ultrabeatdown55 (15314 posts) -

@Sweenix:

@Sweenix said:

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:
@Blabadon said:

@Ultrabeatdown55 said:

Played both. Beat both. Loved both.

This isn't conflicting enough of a first post, could you be a little more partial please?

Lol sure.

Pokemon was more Pokemon to me. It was a slight evolution that satisfied me as a player that started at Red/Blue. On the other hand, I will say I had more fun and did play SMT more than Pokemon due to the story and characters and the demons and how you interact with them. SMT was way more fresh to me, and had more content. I think I'm comfortable saying SMT is the better game, but Pokemon was still stellar.

Yes I just used the word stellar.

Pokemon is never about it's story, nor it's characters, it's about the gameplay, and there isn't a turn based rpg, more enthralling then pokemon

I know, trust me I know. But at this point I only really come back to Pokemon for its setting/gameplay, and I am a huge story/character type of person. I still love Pokemon though lol

#9 Posted by Bigboi500 (29999 posts) -

Both are great, but a few things keep SMT IV from being as superb as you say: way to many encounters, lack of online multiplayer, and poor pacing and advancement.

#10 Posted by Suppaman100 (3935 posts) -

SMT IV is one of the worst SMT games.

Maybe if it was your first SMT, then I understand why you would be impressed.

Pokemon X/Y is nothing special too.

Both mediocre/good games but nothing special at all.

#11 Edited by Blabadon (26562 posts) -

@Bigboi500 said:

Both are great, but a few things keep SMT IV from being as superb as you say: way to many encounters, lack of online multiplayer, and poor pacing and advancement.

To be fair, I have yet to finish it :P

@Suppaman100 said:

SMT IV is one of the worst SMT games.

Maybe if it was your first SMT, then I understand why you would be impressed.

Pokemon X/Y is nothing special too.

Both mediocre/good games but nothing special at all.

Which other SMT titles are you comparing it to?

#12 Posted by bbkkristian (14955 posts) -

I'll admit Pokemon X/Y had a so many disappointments in its single-player compaign.

#13 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

I am not reading your book and I see nothing of another Pokemon game this year.

See kids, TC is why you stay away from drugs. That's what will happen to you if you don't.

#14 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

I disagree. Pokemon has completely sucked me in, I have like 200 hours in it. I've played SMT4 for like 10 hours. And I much prefer the combat in pokemon, it requires a lot more strategy if you ask me. SMT4 just seems like use super effective hits so you can go twice. The lack of multiplayer really hurts SMT4.

The overworld in both games isn't that great, SMT4's is boring and Pokemon X's was kind of disappointing.

#15 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22486 posts) -

The online and 3d battles alone override any of those gripes in X and Y. The series needed this jump and they delivered

I mean hell if you're playing pokemon games for their story then all of them aside from BW suck

#16 Posted by Blabadon (26562 posts) -

@AmazonTreeBoa said:

I am not reading

...

why you stay away from drugs. That's what will happen to you if you don't.

I find this deliciously ironic

#17 Edited by hiphops_savior (7939 posts) -

Pokemon has a much stronger metagame as well.

#18 Edited by Blabadon (26562 posts) -

@cain006 said:

I disagree. Pokemon has completely sucked me in, I have like 200 hours in it. I've played SMT4 for like 10 hours. And I much prefer the combat in pokemon, it requires a lot more strategy if you ask me. SMT4 just seems like use super effective hits so you can go twice. The lack of multiplayer really hurts SMT4.

The overworld in both games isn't that great, SMT4's is boring and Pokemon X's was kind of disappointing.

Looking at it from a single-player perspective, it feels almost impossible to agree that there is more strategy involved with Pokemon. They've always been easy affairs that don't use much strategy at all. Talking about SMT IV's action system like that is a gross oversimplification.

@Shinobishyguy said:

The online and 3d battles alone override any of those gripes in X and Y. The series needed this jump and they delivered

I mean hell if you're playing pokemon games for their story then all of them aside from BW suck

Wow.

#19 Edited by Shinobishyguy (22486 posts) -

Seriously though

> complain about 3d in pokemon

> smt is still using stiffly animated sprites

Poor bait mate

#20 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

@Blabadon said:

@cain006 said:

I disagree. Pokemon has completely sucked me in, I have like 200 hours in it. I've played SMT4 for like 10 hours. And I much prefer the combat in pokemon, it requires a lot more strategy if you ask me. SMT4 just seems like use super effective hits so you can go twice. The lack of multiplayer really hurts SMT4.

The overworld in both games isn't that great, SMT4's is boring and Pokemon X's was kind of disappointing.

Looking at it from a single-player perspective, it feels almost impossible to agree that there is more strategy involved with Pokemon. They've always been easy affairs that don't use much strategy at all. Talking about SMT IV's action system like that is a gross oversimplification.

Well yeah I mean online. The single player in pokemon isn't really supposed to be challenging, it's just something you go through to get used to the new pokemon really.

#21 Posted by jg4xchamp (48319 posts) -

lol'd at finalstar likes this game.

Had no interest in buying another pokemon game that plays just like another fucking pokemon game. SMT 4 I'm still interested in, but from what I gathered it's a neutered follow up to Nocturne, which so far has been awesome.

#22 Edited by mrintro (1354 posts) -

I just ordered Shin Megami. GoHastings has 50% off used games today

#23 Posted by Zassimick (6621 posts) -

I don't know why it's so easy to spend 100+ hours on Pokémon but other RPGs, which I thoroughly enjoy, it feels like so much more effort to romp through to the 60+ hour mark.

I'm interested in SMT4 but probably won't ever check it out. I have too many other RPGs to play through, including finishing Persona 4 Golden.

#24 Edited by charizard1605 (58094 posts) -

Shin Megami Tensei IV is flat out the better designed game than Pokemon X and Y. If Pokemon X and Y had the better post game, honestly I'd be more inclined to give it the edge, but you play that game obsessively for forty hours, and then... it just plummets off a cliff, there's nothing to do.

But SMT4 had its own problems, chief among these is the stupid Tokyo overworld. Whoever designed that needs to be castrated so he can't contaminate our gene pool any more.

#25 Posted by MJPK (3361 posts) -

In US maybe but SMT 4 doesn't even have a release date in EU yet so pokemon wins by defualt

#26 Posted by Shinobishyguy (22486 posts) -

@charizard1605: I'd say the online in XY gives it legs. It's so easy to connect now because of the PSS.

That said the lack of postgame is still a bummer and hopefully they'll correct that in inevitable third version

#27 Edited by madsnakehhh (14483 posts) -

What if i just want to play Pokemon because i like Pokemon, i had enough of SMT after Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor, and not because it was bad, quite the contrary, but because i just had enough of the franchise, not really interested in coming back any time soon, on the contrary, i have no time in coming back to Pokemon every once in a while.

#28 Posted by KBFloYd (13796 posts) -

yea... this is the first shin megami game that interests me....the ones on ds and ps1 were srpgs like fire emblem and looked meh to me..

this one is 3rd person and full 3d and it is like pokemon collecting demons instead of pokemon.

#29 Posted by Bigboi500 (29999 posts) -

@jg4xchamp said:

lol'd at finalstar likes this game.

Had no interest in buying another pokemon game that plays just like another fucking pokemon game. SMT 4 I'm still interested in, but from what I gathered it's a neutered follow up to Nocturne, which so far has been awesome.

Silly champ.

Nocturne is "neutered" in comparison to IV. Don't ass/u/me otherwise (too late) just because IV is a handheld game. IV has on-the-go fusions, in-battle fusions, more demon slots, apps and Burroughs--a helpful assistant persona that makes your solitary trek into dark lands much more pleasant. Nocturne has none of those things.

#30 Posted by Big_Pecks (5345 posts) -

@Shinobishyguy said:

@charizard1605: I'd say the online in XY gives it legs. It's so easy to connect now because of the PSS.

That said the lack of postgame is still a bummer and hopefully they'll correct that in inevitable third version

This. The PSS is amazing. In BW I interacted with 0 people on the C-Gear but with the PSS it's upwards of 1000+ people. And it's so easy to get into competitive battling now.

#31 Posted by cain006 (8625 posts) -

@Big_Pecks said:

@Shinobishyguy said:

@charizard1605: I'd say the online in XY gives it legs. It's so easy to connect now because of the PSS.

That said the lack of postgame is still a bummer and hopefully they'll correct that in inevitable third version

This. The PSS is amazing. In BW I interacted with 0 people on the C-Gear but with the PSS it's upwards of 1000+ people. And it's so easy to get into competitive battling now.

Yeah that's for sure. I trained a perfect greninja in the 3 hours or so I was on a plane. They still need to make it easier if you ask me, but they're getting near the sweet spot.

#32 Posted by PhazonBlazer (11910 posts) -

#33 Edited by metroidfood (11173 posts) -

@Big_Pecks said:

@Shinobishyguy said:

@charizard1605: I'd say the online in XY gives it legs. It's so easy to connect now because of the PSS.

That said the lack of postgame is still a bummer and hopefully they'll correct that in inevitable third version

This. The PSS is amazing. In BW I interacted with 0 people on the C-Gear but with the PSS it's upwards of 1000+ people. And it's so easy to get into competitive battling now.

My main complaint with the PSS is that there's no good way to communicate with people outside of voice chat (which most people leave off) and the lack of good battle options (no 6v6 ranked, no online Battle Maison multi, no sleep clause, and only 3 limited rule sets).

Granted, it's pretty good by Nintendo standards, but it's just so far behind everyone else in the industry. Hell, even fanmade sites like Pokemon Showdown have better online features.

#34 Posted by AsadMahdi59 (6555 posts) -

I wanted Pokemon to have a more interesting story, then I played Black and I hope they never try making an interesting story again.

#35 Edited by Aljosa23 (25111 posts) -

@Bigboi500 said:

@jg4xchamp said:

lol'd at finalstar likes this game.

Had no interest in buying another pokemon game that plays just like another fucking pokemon game. SMT 4 I'm still interested in, but from what I gathered it's a neutered follow up to Nocturne, which so far has been awesome.

Silly champ.

Nocturne is "neutered" in comparison to IV. Don't ass/u/me otherwise (too late) just because IV is a handheld game. IV has on-the-go fusions, in-battle fusions, more demon slots, apps and Burroughs--a helpful assistant persona that makes your solitary trek into dark lands much more pleasant. Nocturne has none of those things.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You sound like a PR dweeb reading the features off the back of the box. Nocturne is the greatest RPG ever conceived by mankind. IV is Baby's First SMT.

#36 Edited by Bigboi500 (29999 posts) -

@Aljosa23 said:

@Bigboi500 said:

@jg4xchamp said:

lol'd at finalstar likes this game.

Had no interest in buying another pokemon game that plays just like another fucking pokemon game. SMT 4 I'm still interested in, but from what I gathered it's a neutered follow up to Nocturne, which so far has been awesome.

Silly champ.

Nocturne is "neutered" in comparison to IV. Don't ass/u/me otherwise (too late) just because IV is a handheld game. IV has on-the-go fusions, in-battle fusions, more demon slots, apps and Burroughs--a helpful assistant persona that makes your solitary trek into dark lands much more pleasant. Nocturne has none of those things.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You sound like a PR dweeb reading the features off the back of the box. Nocturne is the greatest RPG ever conceived by mankind. IV is Baby's First SMT.

No.

#37 Posted by FireEmblem_Man (8769 posts) -

Why is Pokemon more Popular than Shin Megami Tensai?

#38 Posted by hotdiddykong (2048 posts) -

Why does this topic even exist XD SMT and Pokemon are 2 different things

#39 Edited by Mario1331 (8826 posts) -

idk blab pokes was very good this time around

#40 Edited by Gargus (2147 posts) -

As soon as opinion enters into something "fact" is no longer a word that can be used.

Ill be glad though when this GS fad of comparing 2 games that have absolutely nothing in common at all dies off.

#41 Edited by charizard1605 (58094 posts) -

@Gargus said:

As soon as opinion enters into something "fact" is no longer a word that can be used.

Ill be glad though when this GS fad of comparing 2 games that have absolutely nothing in common at all dies off.

If you actually knew something about the two games involved, you would know they have a fair bit in common.

Or you know, you could just read the OP, that would work too.

#42 Posted by GreySeal9 (24404 posts) -

@FireEmblem_Man said:

Why is Pokemon more Popular than Shin Megami Tensai?

Because it's very kid friendly while still appealing to older gamers.

Shin Megami Tensei is purely for adults. It's too hard and too dark for kids.

#43 Posted by Ripsaw1994 (112 posts) -

ITT: People who think japanese games are good

#44 Posted by Ghost120x (3909 posts) -

It's all about the details and presentation in these kinds of games imo. When I played smt and I was waliking around Tokyo as a cursor it totally killed any sense of immersion that I had.

Pokémon looks beautiful considering the scope of the game.