Expect a shitty CPU performance for Scorpio

as those french leaks showed many months ago, the best Ryzen CPUs perform just like a i5 in games

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2822-amd-ryzen-r7-1800x-review-premiere-blender-fps-benchmarks?showall=1

an $500 and 95Watts Ryzen performs like an i5 (also gets beaten by lots of i5s in several games), so what performance can we expect for Scorpio? no way they will put a $500 chip on a $500 console and much less likely a 95W CPU, the CPU on xbox one, ps4, ps4 pro uses around 35W

best case scenario Scorpio will be sold at a loss with a $300 CPU chip downclocked to fit 50Watts TDP and perform like a weak i3, but most probably not, it looks like once again console manufacturers are betting in CG game-movies that weights heavily on the GPU for a single player experience

So because it doesn't perform like a top-tier gaming CPU it's shitty?

The CPU won't be a bottleneck for 30fps. Won't even be a bottleneck for 60fps in most cases. What's the problem?

@leandrro: Shit a weak i3 would put a beat down on the shit that is in the PS4, PS4 Pro, and Xbox One. What you fail to say is just how shitty the CPUs are right now in consoles. If you can get 8 core i3 performance with 6TF of graphics power that would be a HUGE improvement over the shit performance of console CPUs right now.

How's that "shitty performance" ?

Some people are just clueless. They expected the Scorpio to have an i7-6900K CPU and a 1080 Ti for 399$.

Battlefield 1 on the PS4 stays around 40fps in multiplayer because of the weak CPU, its the same for about any multiplayer game on all consoles, this way consoles look like machines built for game-movie and single player experiences, for people who only expect this from consoles there is no problem

for me personally i look at battlefield games, bf4 used to run like shit on the PS4, bf1 in ps4 is abysmal going as low as 30fps in multiplayer, an i5 is not enough for multiplayer in bf1, you need to overclock it or get an i7, so a weak i3 for multiplayer in 2017 will be just as bad as those jaguar CPUs for multiplyer in 2013

That's looking not too bad at all., I'll wait and see what the pricing is like and there are more independent benchmarks available before casting a judgement though.

There are some people who appear to believe exactly that.

I said it at the time of announcement, 6TFlop performance will be equivalent to 2 year old GPU's when the console launches.

I wouldn't call being right in the mix with a difference of 5-7 FPS and kicking ass on image editing and 3D rendering "shitty." I think this is an impressive improvement over Bulldozer and a very strong platform to kick on from.

And besides, do we even know if Scorpio will actually have Ryzen? For compatibility's sake, I would even expect it to have a souped-up Jaguar instead, like the PS4 Pro.

expect, expect, expect, youre still dreaming with the cloud powah?

the only benchmarks in with ryzen did not get beaten by i5s is the ones that they used very little CPU demanding games and in reality they benchmarked nothing since all the results matched

take a look at gamer nexus review, ryzen is beaten by i5s in low and high settings in many different games, and scorpio will not have even half of this i5 performance

The version of the Ryzen CPU the Scorpio gets will not be competing with i7 CPU's on any level. Not unless MS are looking at a massive loss per unit sold or selling it for $800.

Have MS even said whether the Scorpio is getting an APU or discrete CPU/GPU?

It'll be fine. Everything will be fine. Your PC will be fine, the people who buy a Scorpio will get fine performance. There's no need to pretend what we know about Ryzen is somehow disappointing or even sh*tty. It's not. It's a win for PC gamers and consoles that use the tech alike. Good performance for the price.

@leandrro: Do you want ron on here to post pages worth of charts? Because that's exactly how you get ron on here to post pages worth of charts.

It's better than the PS4 Pro's CPU.

Nice logic bro

@leandrro said:

as those french leaks showed many months ago, the best Ryzen CPUs perform just like a i5 in games

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2822-amd-ryzen-r7-1800x-review-premiere-blender-fps-benchmarks/page-7

an $500 and 95Watts Ryzen performs like an i5 (also gets beaten by lots of i5s in several games), so what performance can we expect for Scorpio? no way they will put a $500 chip on a $500 console and much less likely a 95W CPU, the CPU on xbox one, ps4, ps4 pro uses around 35W

best case scenario Scorpio will be sold at a loss with a $300 CPU chip downclocked to fit 50Watts TDP and perform like a weak i3, but most probably not, it looks like once again console manufacturers are betting in CG game-movies that weights heavily on the GPU for a single player experience

You looking at specs for PC with frame rates above 60. Console is only going to be 30 or 60 fps. The stock r7 1800x average FPS is 132 for BF4.

There lot of factors to consider and most of the benchmarked games use DX11 not DX12

@loe12k said:

@leandrro said:

as those french leaks showed many months ago, the best Ryzen CPUs perform just like a i5 in games

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2822-amd-ryzen-r7-1800x-review-premiere-blender-fps-benchmarks/page-7

an $500 and 95Watts Ryzen performs like an i5 (also gets beaten by lots of i5s in several games), so what performance can we expect for Scorpio? no way they will put a $500 chip on a $500 console and much less likely a 95W CPU, the CPU on xbox one, ps4, ps4 pro uses around 35W

best case scenario Scorpio will be sold at a loss with a $300 CPU chip downclocked to fit 50Watts TDP and perform like a weak i3, but most probably not, it looks like once again console manufacturers are betting in CG game-movies that weights heavily on the GPU for a single player experience

You looking at specs for PC with frame rates above 60. Console is only going to be 30 or 60 fps. The stock r7 1800x average FPS is 132 for BF4.

There lot of factors to consider and most of the benchmarked games use DX11 not DX12

He's either an insecure hermit or a cow who's shook by the scorpio

The standards on System Wars are just... baffling at time ?

$240 i5 match $400 Ryzen performance in Ashes of Singularity DX12 with half the number of cores/threads

Consoles currently have Jaguar. Anything that is Ryzen based is going to be superior by default, making this thread an epic fail.

6 jaguar cores (ps4/x1) are equivalent to a 2008's phenom x3, overclocked 7 jaguar cores(ps4 pro) is equivalent to a 2009's x4 phenom, and this underclocked ryzen will probably perform like a 2011's i5-2500 or weak i3, thats not ideal for any gaming setup in 2017

@Juub1990: ya I highly doubt a 399 is what Scorpio cost I'd go more like 449.99 to 549.99

Once we get games optimized with Zen-optimized compilers and become more multi-threaded, the tides should turn in AMD's favor.

People forget that Intel has been running the show for the past 3 to 4 years. Games are mostly developed around that and have used Intel compilers much more heavily than AMD, if at any.

Blown away is a bit excessive, they are comparable in their price brackets though with Ryzen 7 1700 winning some points and the i7 7700K winning others. I doubt there would be any noticeable difference in gaming with either CPU.

The next thing that follows on from this, for me, is how well does it overclock? The i7 7700K is a top performer in overclocking and an area where AMD don't really do as well in either CPU's or GPU's (compared to Nvidia). Of course it all depends on the ASIC and your luck with the silicon lottery but it's not unheard of for an I7 7700k to get 5GHz on air.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1851?vs=1826

I am not going to waste time delving into equivalents. The fact that you are avoiding is that it is still going to be better than a Jaguar cpu. To say its not ideal for any gaming setup in 2017 is FACTUALLY incorrect. Stop spewing BS.

hahah. i5 is fine for gaming.

Hell my i3-6100 plays games just fine.

Have you not got a clue? Battlefield 1 is the most demanding console and PC game there is today. Are you really complaining about a GPU not optimized for that game and has a benchmark of 132 averages frames at 1080p Ultra settings.

Ryzen closest rival in Ash of Singularity is the i7 not i5. And price matters.

Scorpio isn't going to have Ryzen in the SOC. It will be FinFet Puma+.

The CEO of AMD already said no semicustom Ryzen in 2017. Scorpio launches in 2017. Looks like November 17th or so.

Also Phil said the Scorpio SOC was finalized October of last year. Too early for Ryzen.

All this arguing is for nothing. Scorpio will have the same CPU performance as PS4 Pro.

Yeah it won't be a high end PC. It still has to be affordable ofcourse.

Still it's good.

sure it will be better than current jaguar CPUs, but still too weak for 2017 gaming, best case scenario for scorpio is a weak i3 and it will bottleneck a rx 480

@leandrro:

1. Above 60 hz is nearly useless for Scorpio since the majority of HDTVs has 60 hz standard.

2. Running high end GPU at 1920x1080p with greater than 60hz is not a realistic workload usecase.

3. Scorpio will not have R7-1700, R7-1700X and R7-1800.

Cheaper R5-1600 mostly likely match R7-1800X in gaming and R5-1600 may have better overclock head room since it has two less CPUs.

Scorpio will not have R5-1600X.

SMT can degrade performance and games/OS may not be aware of Ryzen SMT i.e. use non-SMT threads first before using SMT.

Recall FX-8370 needs a OS patch for Windows task schedule.

i5-7600 stock = 30fps

1800x stock 31fps,

i7-7600 stock 41fps

i5 with half the cores, half the treads and half the price match ryzen performance

well , that would be the mother of all bottlenecks

Well if its 8 core CPU its highly unlikely.

I be surprised though if not a custom CPU supplied by AMD at a affordable price. MS will not want the Scorpio to be unbalanced in any way.

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

@leandrro said:

@Pedro said:

Consoles currently have Jaguar. Anything that is Ryzen based is going to be superior by default, making this thread an epic fail.

6 jaguar cores (ps4/x1) are equivalent to a 2008's phenom x3, overclocked 7 jaguar cores(ps4 pro) is equivalent to a 2009's x4 phenom, and this underclocked ryzen will probably perform like a 2011's i5-2500 or weak i3, thats not ideal for any gaming setup in 2017

1. Above 60 hz is nearly useless for Scorpio since the majority of HDTVs has 60 hz standard.

2. Running high end GPU at 1920x1080p with greater than 60hz is not a realistic workload usecase.

this test has a $200 CPU on the top of a chart were a $1700 CPU is below, its really a no-test

scorpio will have half of this GPU performance so we are looking at 40fps in 4k

also this is a 95W $400 ryzen, scorpio will probably get less than half of this CPU performance

but the real problem is multiplayer and CPU intensive games

@leandrro: Well it is a console. People are expecting magic from something that is based on science.

Consoles have to take heat, space, and power draw into account when being designed.

Scorpio was touted as being a Xbox One for 4k. People expecting secret sauce lol.

The meltdowns that Lems will have after Scorpio hardware is revealed will be epic.

@loe12k: They could put Excavator in Scorpio, but it will not be a substantial upgrade.

The console will be bottlenecked by the CPU just like the Pro.

The Pro is bottlenecked at 1080p 60 frames. . If we see that i complain.

If MS has 4K 30fps games honestly don't care. Drop below 60 at 4K is fine.

Yawn.

what a thread

Cinebench multithread performance makes all the difference in gaming, does it? Performance per core is still very much in favour of the i7, which does make a difference in gaming. So no it does not blow the i7 out of the water.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm very glad to see AMD coming back into the game. It's about time Intel got some competition, they've had it their own way for far too long. Like I said though, the OC performance is important to me and if AMD still isn't performing in that area I'll go with intel on my next upgrade.

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

@leandrro said:

@Pedro said:

Consoles currently have Jaguar. Anything that is Ryzen based is going to be superior by default, making this thread an epic fail.

6 jaguar cores (ps4/x1) are equivalent to a 2008's phenom x3, overclocked 7 jaguar cores(ps4 pro) is equivalent to a 2009's x4 phenom, and this underclocked ryzen will probably perform like a 2011's i5-2500 or weak i3, thats not ideal for any gaming setup in 2017

1. Above 60 hz is nearly useless for Scorpio since the majority of HDTVs has 60 hz standard.

2. Running high end GPU at 1920x1080p with greater than 60hz is not a realistic workload usecase.

this test has a $200 CPU on the top of a chart were a $1700 CPU is below, its really a no-test

scorpio will have half of this GPU performance so we are looking at 40fps in 4k

also this is a 95W $400 ryzen, scorpio will probably get less than half of this CPU performance

but the real problem is multiplayer and CPU intensive games

GTX 1080 is most likely GPU bound at realistic use cases. Hint: change GTX 1080 into Titan X Pascal while keeping the same CPU

Cheaper $259 R5-1600X (4 Ghz boost) would do the same to $499 R7-1800X (4 Ghz boost).

Scorpio doesn't have GTX 1080 GPU.

Scorpio doesn't have PC's DX11 API overheads.

@xboxiphoneps3 said:

@leandrro said:

@ronvalencia said:

@leandrro:

@leandrro said:

@Pedro said:

Consoles currently have Jaguar. Anything that is Ryzen based is going to be superior by default, making this thread an epic fail.

6 jaguar cores (ps4/x1) are equivalent to a 2008's phenom x3, overclocked 7 jaguar cores(ps4 pro) is equivalent to a 2009's x4 phenom, and this underclocked ryzen will probably perform like a 2011's i5-2500 or weak i3, thats not ideal for any gaming setup in 2017

1. Above 60 hz is nearly useless for Scorpio since the majority of HDTVs has 60 hz standard.

2. Running high end GPU at 1920x1080p with greater than 60hz is not a realistic workload usecase.

this test has a $200 CPU on the top of a chart were a $1700 CPU is below, its really a no-test

scorpio will have half of this GPU performance so we are looking at 40fps in 4k

also this is a 95W $400 ryzen, scorpio will probably get less than half of this CPU performance

but the real problem is multiplayer and CPU intensive games

These benchmarks are not using low level API's like how consoles do, not even the same comparison. stop making numbers out of your rear man, this benchmark was run on DX11, consoles don't use DX11, they use something much more efficient that extracts noticeably more performance out the hardware and so the comparison is not comparable. Your making terrible claims of hardware running on DX11 on Windows, which has much more abstraction going on and it's low level API's are not on the level of consoles yet in terms of extracting all the perf out of the hardware you have

Your argument will be valid once you show results of Ryzen vs Intel in games like Vulkan Doom/proper native DX12 path games.

2 of the 3 benchmarks you mentioned are dx12

but in fact dx12 makes it worse for ryzen, look at image below, ryzen look less ugly if we stick to dx11 and unoptmized multithreading