Do you care if next gen blocks used games?

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#101 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

cooperation's taking away peoples choice is awful i don't see why anyone would stand for it. I hope they get sued for billions if they do it.

osirisx3

Has Microsoft or Adobe or any other software make been successful sued for requiring a licesnse to use their intellectual property?

#102 Posted by AznbkdX (3209 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

Ah man you're on that poverty state of mind?

StrongBlackVine

I'm sorry, what?

Crying about used games is for poor folk.

Holy hell, didn't think I would ever hear something like this.

You're a piece of work aren't ya?

#103 Posted by DarkLink77 (31697 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

Ah man you're on that poverty state of mind?

StrongBlackVine

I'm sorry, what?

Crying about used games is for poor folk.

It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that there is often no way to get older games except to buy them used. For instance, I have never played the Metroid Prime games. I would like to. I cannot buy them new anymore, so I have to get them used.
#104 Posted by Arach666 (23039 posts) -
I care very little personally since consoles are for the most part a very small blip on my gaming needs,but that will probably end up getting me even less interested in getting one for sure. I use consoles mostly to rent or buy used games,if that goes away then so does my interest in ever getting another one,especially when I can get pretty much almost every single game I want on the PC and get a far better experience there.
#105 Posted by NoirLamia777 (2160 posts) -

Yes.

#106 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -
I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.
#107 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.AmazonTreeBoa

You can't play used games on PC so what is the difference?

#108 Posted by Vatusus (4616 posts) -

yup, I do

#109 Posted by MrYaotubo (2694 posts) -
I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.AmazonTreeBoa
Pretty much,I was always a console gamer at heart but since I´ve started PC gaming in early 2010 I barely touched my two consoles since then and at this point,I´m prertty sure I can live without having one,the PC covers pretty much everything I need and in a much superior fashion.
#110 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

It's bad for the industry.

I can't think of how many times I've discovered a new developer, or a new game series through used games, borrowing, renting, or even "piracy", that have led me to purchase/support many more future titles from that same developer/series.

Valve can personally thank me for the 145 games I own on Steam (15 of which are Valve's), and the five or so people I helped get into PC gaming who have also supported Valve by buying hundreds of games through Steam all because I did NOT give them money for Half Life when it came out. I did buy the Half Life collection a year or so later when I could afford it, and even bought the PS2 version too.

 

Removing used games only prevents people from discovering games.

AznbkdX

Yep. Most ppl tend to see used games and piracy as a bad thing. Sure it is, if you want to get all moral about it. For the business side of things however its far from a problem, but some devs tend to think otherwise.

If you got pirated games it usually means:

1. You got a game not worth its price.

2. You got a game that's too easy to pirate.

Its a telltale sign that you are not at the right price point. You could say that people pirate because it is free, but I'm almost guaranteed without a doubt that most ppl are noble about it and will buy if its right in price and content. People don't like to break the rules on spite, especially on something that is not so mainstream unlike pirating music and movies.

For used games its almost the same deal. If you remove used games it just means you are alienating users. Not every user just plays used games, they mix it up. The thing is some ppl tend to like used a bit more or are pretty 50/50 especially if they are on a budget. That means that if you deny used games, those users won't buy your system. That then makes it so you lost a potential customer that could have bought a few games new. 

Piracy means a whole lot of things.

People pirate to demo, backup their games, get their games (that they've already bought) on multiple systems, bypass DRM, and yah of course it does also mean stealing in some cases.

I was 8 years old when Half Life came out, and couldn't afford it, and didn't know any better either. My older brother pirated games every so often, and he put Half Life on our computer.

I couldn't afford it, and yah it was stealing for us to play it, but believe me I'm sure Valve is much happier that we did pirate the game. Had we not played Half Life neither me, or my brother would be as big into PC gaming as we are now, and between us both we have nearly 500 PC games on Steam alone.

This video puts piracy into perspective

 

But I think an analogy can be made to used games as well. Not everyone can afford every game that comes out, so many gamers have to resort to renting, borrowing, or trading games in. This means more gamers playing games, and more gamers discovering new games they love which will push them to support future games.

#111 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.StrongBlackVine

You can't play used games on PC so what is the difference?

Yes you can.
#112 Posted by LustForSoul (5885 posts) -

I don't care. Most people want used games because they get money for it or get them for cheaper. I just wait if I want them cheap. You have to maintain your rights as a customer though, if you buy a game, it should be fully yours. If there's blocking of the used games you're basically buying a license key on a disc, which is bull.

#113 Posted by locopatho (20282 posts) -
That;d be a deal breaker for me. If you have to register a game to a single console that means bye bye used games, bye bye bringing games to a friends house for multiplayer, bye bye swapping games amongst friends, bye bye having multiple consoles in your house, bye bye to your entire collection if your console breaks/is stolen. No thanks.
#114 Posted by percuvius2 (1982 posts) -

[QUOTE="percuvius2"]

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

Nope. Gamers who buy used games are just as bad as pirates.

StrongBlackVine

Like buying a used car, damn thieves.

Intellectually property can and should be licensed. You can't put Windows and other PC software on any computer you want just because you own the disc.

 

Yes you can.

#115 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7280 posts) -

[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.StrongBlackVine

You can't play used games on PC so what is the difference?

The difference is that you can get new games on PC for less than $10, and a PC has an infinite amount of non-gaming capabilities compared to a console.
#116 Posted by AznbkdX (3209 posts) -

[QUOTE="AznbkdX"]

[QUOTE="Ly_the_Fairy"]

It's bad for the industry.

I can't think of how many times I've discovered a new developer, or a new game series through used games, borrowing, renting, or even "piracy", that have led me to purchase/support many more future titles from that same developer/series.

Valve can personally thank me for the 145 games I own on Steam (15 of which are Valve's), and the five or so people I helped get into PC gaming who have also supported Valve by buying hundreds of games through Steam all because I did NOT give them money for Half Life when it came out. I did buy the Half Life collection a year or so later when I could afford it, and even bought the PS2 version too.

 

Removing used games only prevents people from discovering games.

Ly_the_Fairy

Yep. Most ppl tend to see used games and piracy as a bad thing. Sure it is, if you want to get all moral about it. For the business side of things however its far from a problem, but some devs tend to think otherwise.

If you got pirated games it usually means:

1. You got a game not worth its price.

2. You got a game that's too easy to pirate.

Its a telltale sign that you are not at the right price point. You could say that people pirate because it is free, but I'm almost guaranteed without a doubt that most ppl are noble about it and will buy if its right in price and content. People don't like to break the rules on spite, especially on something that is not so mainstream unlike pirating music and movies.

For used games its almost the same deal. If you remove used games it just means you are alienating users. Not every user just plays used games, they mix it up. The thing is some ppl tend to like used a bit more or are pretty 50/50 especially if they are on a budget. That means that if you deny used games, those users won't buy your system. That then makes it so you lost a potential customer that could have bought a few games new. 

Piracy means a whole lot of things.

People pirate to demo, backup their games, get their games (that they've already bought) on multiple systems, bypass DRM, and yah of course it does also mean stealing in some cases.

I was 8 years old when Half Life came out, and couldn't afford it, and didn't know any better either. My older brother pirated games every so often, and he put Half Life on our computer.

I couldn't afford it, and yah it was stealing for us to play it, but believe me I'm sure Valve is much happier that we did pirate the game. Had we not played Half Life neither me, or my brother would be as big into PC gaming as we are now, and between us both we have nearly 500 PC games on Steam alone.

This video puts piracy into perspective

 

But I think an analogy can be made to used games as well. Not everyone can afford every game that comes out, so many gamers have to resort to renting, borrowing, or trading games in. This means more gamers playing games, and more gamers discovering new games they love which will push them to support future games.

Yeah pretty much. I don't know all the specifics of piracy, but I do know that the general application used on these boards is downright stealing a game. You tended to go more to the gamer themselves in your discussion, and I wholeheartedly agree with your ideas. Morally it may not be right, but sometimes you do it just because its not available to you, and it might as well be free if they won't release it at all anywhere else (happens a ton for region games). Still a bit messy admittedly, but does create potential customers out of ppl. :)

 I was more on the business side of both aspects, but was closer to your assumptions on the used market. Without some sort of experience with games, you tend to not play as much games in general. If you are on a budget, the only way you can do that is used games or steam sales for the most part. Its sound reasoning for gamers as a whole.

#117 Posted by osirisx3 (1780 posts) -

 

[QUOTE="osirisx3"]

cooperation's taking away peoples choice is awful i don't see why anyone would stand for it. I hope they get sued for billions if they do it.

StrongBlackVine

Has Microsoft or Adobe or any other software make been successful sued for requiring a licesnse to use their intellectual property?

 

 

 missing the point of what i was saying but i would not be shocked if someone somewhere in the world had been sued seccessfully.

#118 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

Yeah pretty much. I don't know all the specifics of piracy, but I do know that the general application used on these boards is downright stealing a game. You tended to go more to the gamer themselves in your discussion, and I wholeheartedly agree with your ideas. Morally it may not be right, but sometimes you do it just because its not available to you, and it might as well be free if they won't release it at all anywhere else (happens a ton for region games). Still a bit messy admittedly, but does create potential customers out of ppl. :)

 I was more on the business side of both aspects, but was closer to your assumptions on the used market. Without some sort of experience with games, you tend to not play as much games in general. If you are on a budget, the only way you can do that is used games or steam sales for the most part. Its sound reasoning for gamers as a whole.

AznbkdX

The business side should appreciate what piracy/used games does for the industry.

More people playing games means more people talking about the games (free advertising), and more brand awareness, and that all leads to more fans. Fans are more inclined to purchase, and support all future titles.

The publishers who fight piracy/used games are the ones who find themselves losing money, and fanbases. Ubisoft used to be one of the PCs better publishers, but they publicly announced (a couple years back) that when they introduced always-online DRM that while piracy fell, so did the sales of their titles. It's exactly why they removed the DRM.

#119 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7280 posts) -
There are too many pirates who think you would have to be an idiot to actually pay for a game, though. Most of the people I know who pirate games do not buy any games or movies, and don't have any plans to ever do so. They are leaches on society.
#120 Posted by Slow_Show (2153 posts) -

It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that there is often no way to get older games except to buy them used. For instance, I have never played the Metroid Prime games. I would like to. I cannot buy them new anymore, so I have to get them used. DarkLink77

But the obvious implacation of going to a Steam-esque DD-centric model (which is what this is, they're not just banning used games for the sake of banning used games) is you'd never have to worry about that, because every title released for the platform would always be available for download. So instead of having to track down a $60+ used copy of the Metroid Prime Trilogy on eBay, it would just be a $20 (or whatever) download alongside the CoD clones and movie tie-ins.

So personally I'm pretty much on the fence: as much as I don't like the errosion of consumer rights the transition to license-only DD means, I also recognize that there are a hell of a lot more advantages than disadvantages when DD is implemented well. So it'll boil down to specifically how MS goes about it -- if they can add value the way Steam did to replace the lost value of more restrictive licensing/DRM I'm more than cool with it, but if they can't find that balance it'll be a total dealbreaker. 

#121 Posted by PurpleMan5000 (7280 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that there is often no way to get older games except to buy them used. For instance, I have never played the Metroid Prime games. I would like to. I cannot buy them new anymore, so I have to get them used. Slow_Show

But the obvious implacation of going to a Steam-esque DD-centric model (which is what this is, they're not just banning used games for the sake of banning used games) is you'd never have to worry about that, because every title released for the platform would always be available for download. So instead of having to track down a $60+ used copy of the Metroid Prime Trilogy on eBay, it would just be a $20 (or whatever) download alongside the CoD clones and movie tie-ins.

So personally I'm pretty much on the fence: as much as I don't like the errosion of consumer rights the transition to license-only DD means, I also recognize that there are a hell of a lot more advantages than disadvantages when DD is implemented well. So it'll boil down to specifically how MS goes about it -- if they can add value the way Steam did to replace the lost value of more restrictive licensing/DRM I'm more than cool with it, but if they can't find that balance it'll be a total dealbreaker. 

I don't like that as a solution on consoles because this allows all games to be sold on a single market with no competition, so there really is not much incentive for sales. Also, this would require massive hard drives, which would most likely be proprietary and very expensive. If the next system comes out and is not backwards compatible, you will be at the mercy of Sony or Microsoft to continue to support their old storefront so you can continue to have access to the games you purchased if your system ever stops working.
#122 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -
[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="AmazonTreeBoa"]I am only interested in the PS4 next gen. Of it doesn't allow me to play used games, then I will not buy a PS4 and will focus 100% of my gaming into PC and ignore consoles.PurpleMan5000

You can't play used games on PC so what is the difference?

The difference is that you can get new games on PC for less than $10, and a PC has an infinite amount of non-gaming capabilities compared to a console.

Not only that, but he is wrong. You can play used games on PC. The hard part is finding used games to buy.
#123 Posted by DarkLink77 (31697 posts) -

[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with the fact that there is often no way to get older games except to buy them used. For instance, I have never played the Metroid Prime games. I would like to. I cannot buy them new anymore, so I have to get them used. Slow_Show

But the obvious implacation of going to a Steam-esque DD-centric model (which is what this is, they're not just banning used games for the sake of banning used games) is you'd never have to worry about that, because every title released for the platform would always be available for download. So instead of having to track down a $60+ used copy of the Metroid Prime Trilogy on eBay, it would just be a $20 (or whatever) download alongside the CoD clones and movie tie-ins.

So personally I'm pretty much on the fence: as much as I don't like the errosion of consumer rights the transition to license-only DD means, I also recognize that there are a hell of a lot more advantages than disadvantages when DD is implemented well. So it'll boil down to specifically how MS goes about it -- if they can add value the way Steam did to replace the lost value of more restrictive licensing/DRM I'm more than cool with it, but if they can't find that balance it'll be a total dealbreaker. 

Yeah, but like you said, there's a lot of things that you have to nail with that. Pricing, storage space, etc. And every game would have to be on that service. I don't trsut Microsoft to get that much right, especially if they aren't going to give me other options. Plus I like selling my old games that I don't want anymore. I'm not too keen on losing that.
#124 Posted by LittleMac19 (1638 posts) -
If you have a lot of friends and you tend to share games amongst each other I expect it to effect that person a lot.
#125 Posted by Senor_Kami (8411 posts) -
I wouldn't care because I don't buy games used but I doubt this will happen. If it's just chips on a disc or something, I can totally see Sony and MS offering a used game service where you mail your game in and the console makers split the money with the publisher/devs and they pay you with XBL/PSN points, permanently removing your copy from any marketplace while still providing you with a way to get value for a game you no longer want to own.
#126 Posted by Ricardomz (2329 posts) -

Nope as I buy really few games.

#127 Posted by EpicGame (15 posts) -
Yes I do care. I like getting a lend of games off of friends, and lending them games. Also I should be able to just put the disc in and play, like the PS2 days. Shouldn't have to go through some code bull$hit after paying $60 for the game.
#128 Posted by userzero (167 posts) -
Yes because I trade most of my games
#129 Posted by Chutebox (37233 posts) -

Not really a big deal.  The games I buy used usually have gone down in price plenty for a new copy.  So no, I don't care.

#130 Posted by Minishdriveby (9984 posts) -

GameSpot is depressing these days... It's filled with a false sense of elitism who consider second hand games tainted and not worthy of their time...

 

Let's see how much you care when the game you want is out of print, and the amazon marketplace jacks the price of an unopened copy to $200+ dollars.

#131 Posted by heytheredarlin (869 posts) -

As someone who uses GameFly, yes I do. If a console blocks used games, they won't be getting a dime from me.

#132 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

[QUOTE="StrongBlackVine"]

[QUOTE="percuvius2"]

Like buying a used car, damn thieves.

percuvius2

Intellectually property can and should be licensed. You can't put Windows and other PC software on any computer you want just because you own the disc.

 

Yes you can.

]

No you can't. There is limit to how many PC you can install it on.

#133 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

GameSpot is depressing these days... It's filled with a false sense of elitism who consider second hand games tainted and not worthy of their time...

 

Let's see how much you care when the game you want is out of print, and the amazon marketplace jacks the price of an unopened copy to $200+ dollars.

Minishdriveby

Funny I was just thinking I never want a used game in my console.

#134 Posted by StrongBlackVine (8418 posts) -

As someone who uses GameFly, yes I do. If a console blocks used games, they won't be getting a dime from me.

heytheredarlin

Does seem like you are buying much any way so no loss.

#135 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

GameSpot is depressing these days... It's filled with a false sense of elitism who consider second hand games tainted and not worthy of their time...

 

Let's see how much you care when the game you want is out of print, and the amazon marketplace jacks the price of an unopened copy to $200+ dollars.

Minishdriveby

It's only worrying considering how Sony/Nintendo/MS support older games.

Backwards compatibility is sketchy, and the download library is very limited.

I wish to see the day when you can buy a console, and literally have 100% access to the entirety of that console brand's backlog.

#136 Posted by Sokol4ever (6305 posts) -

I usually wait until the game is lower in price anyway to buy it, so no it won't affect me. 

Not to mention, PC gaming had been like this for many years, I still enjoy it. 

#137 Posted by DivineSword (15754 posts) -

The only problem I see with this is when they decide to stop producing games that have been out in the market for some time. When this happens the game becomes rarer and rarer to find, since you can't trade in or sell old games. If they have digital version of these games, then I really don't care if they do decide to block used games.

#138 Posted by Ly_the_Fairy (8652 posts) -

I usually wait until the game is lower in price anyway to buy it, so no it won't affect me. 

Not to mention, PC gaming had been like this for many years, I still enjoy it. 

Sokol4ever

PC has been like that for years, but PC gamers have gotten a whole new set of benefits in place of what was taken away.

PC gamers have 30 years of games easily available to them, and they can download their libraries wherever they are in the world, and with Steam they get extra beneficial features like cloud saving, and automatic updates given for free which makes digital gaming more hassle-free than using disks.

On consoles we've seen Sony remove BC because it wasn't profitable, and the 360 doesn't have full BC, and the big 3 don't put much effort into getting their older games on the latest platforms.

On top of that we know the PSVita has a one PSN account limit, and with the Wii U if yours gets lost or stolen you lose all access to the games you bought digitally...

If the console makers block used games do you really see them doing anything good in return? I doubt it.

#139 Posted by heytheredarlin (869 posts) -

[QUOTE="heytheredarlin"]

As someone who uses GameFly, yes I do. If a console blocks used games, they won't be getting a dime from me.

StrongBlackVine

Does seem like you are buying much any way so no loss.

I own a PlayStation 3, Wii, Wii U, Xbox 360, and a gaming PC with 125 games on Steam alone. Don't make stupid assumptions.

#140 Posted by bbkkristian (14953 posts) -
Yes I care; Iif they block used games, then this who miss out on a game who desire to play it are f***ed because they are forced to pay absurd prices for a game because of how limited it would become. Screw that. Producers only print so many copies of a game. Then you have online games which never fall in price (PSN, I'm looking at you), and then you have games that aren't released online. Major screw that.
#141 Posted by bbkkristian (14953 posts) -

I usually wait until the game is lower in price anyway to buy it, so no it won't affect me. 

Not to mention, PC gaming had been like this for many years, I still enjoy it. 

Sokol4ever
You do realize games won't go down in price unless producers print too many copies. You have a limited time until the prices RISE and you end up paying more than the game's worth.
#142 Posted by DJ-Lafleur (34149 posts) -

Yes, yes I do. I would avoid a console that had such a feature.

#143 Posted by TheSacredFlame (324 posts) -

That would be disasterous to the consumer.

I wouldn't support any system that had that feature.

#144 Posted by mitu123 (153911 posts) -

Yes, the whole idea of it is absurd.

#145 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
I coudl see it being an issue, seeing as how people in a single house might have multiple systems/accounts it could get really stupid really fast. On the other hand I could see games being cheaper overall, theres definitly not as many people wililng to drop $60 on brand new games all the time to keep the industry afloat, but they devs will have a guranteed long term source of revenue. The software used market is a lot worse than a car used market or something. Cars have wear and tear so eventually new ones have to be bought but developers biggest competition is their own used games. There is no real depreciation/wear and tear on software, the used copy for $20 is normally identical to the new copy at $30, except the new one you have to find a knife to get the shrink wrap off.
#146 Posted by savagetwinkie (7981 posts) -
[QUOTE="Sokol4ever"]

I usually wait until the game is lower in price anyway to buy it, so no it won't affect me. 

Not to mention, PC gaming had been like this for many years, I still enjoy it. 

bbkkristian
You do realize games won't go down in price unless producers print too many copies. You have a limited time until the prices RISE and you end up paying more than the game's worth.

they will print too many copies because not as many people can afford to drop $60 on the title. Why do you think PC prices drop, no one is trading their old games in so it forces the publishers to drop the price, but it gives longer sustained sales.