Console gaming has always been driven by piracy....

The PS1 was far more pirated than the N64(which wasnt even pirated at all IIRC) and easily destroyed it in sales....

The PS2 was the most pirated console and easily defeated the other 2.PS2 games never sell anyway near as much as the no. of systems sold.Obviously there are many second buyers in those numbers but undoubtly it includes many people who dont buy any games or just a few games that they feel are worth it.

Now the wii is the most easily pirated console and it happens to sell the most as well.Pirating the 360 is a suicide as the inevitable RROD will mean buying another console.

What is my point you ask?It's simple.Pirates help the gaming industry grow.They help make alot of money on hardware for companies like nvidia,sony and nintendo.The console makers try to stop piracy cuz they think that pirates will buy the game if they cannot pirate it but I know alot of pirates and they wont buy games as long as there is atleast one major platform that can be pirated.These companies will post how piracy lost them that many million dollars but it's BS when around 90% of pirates are unlikely to buy the game if they couldnt pirate it so they never really made the company lose any money.

Bu bu teh only PC gaming teh piracy ridden huh?:roll:

sooooo... how do you explain the nes and the snes?st1ka

[QUOTE="st1ka"]sooooo... how do you explain the nes and the snes?Spybot_9

there were pirate games... but its different, these were original unlicensed games which were sold at flea markets but no one bought them because they all sucked, and during that time i already had a lot of PC pirated games like star control 2, wolfenstein 3D or Dune 2

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"][QUOTE="st1ka"]sooooo... how do you explain the nes and the snes?st1ka

there were pirate games... but its different, these were original unlicensed games which were sold at flea markets but no one bought them because they all sucked, and during that time i already had a lot of PC pirated games like star control 2, wolfenstein 3D or Dune 2

[QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"][QUOTE="st1ka"]sooooo... how do you explain the nes and the snes?br0kenrabbit

there were pirate games... but its different, these were original unlicensed games which were sold at flea markets but no one bought them because they all sucked, and during that time i already had a lot of PC pirated games like star control 2, wolfenstein 3D or Dune 2

still this hardly same if you ask me

A friend of mine had a device that allowed you to play pirated games on the Genesis. It utilized a 3 1/2 inch floppy drive of all things.

I disagree with pirating helping game sales. I just don't see it. And regardless if they do help or not, it's stealing and not agreed upon by the publisher. It's flat out wrong. Stealing is stealing, whether you can hold it in your hand or not.

The PS1 was far more pirated than the N64(which wasnt even pirated at all IIRC) and easily destroyed it in sales....

The PS2 was the most pirated console and easily defeated the other 2.PS2 games never sell anyway near as much as the no. of systems sold.Obviously there are many second buyers in those numbers but undoubtly it includes many people who dont buy any games or just a few games that they feel are worth it.

Now the wii is the most easily pirated console and it happens to sell the most as well.Pirating the 360 is a suicide as the inevitable RROD will mean buying another console.

What is my point you ask?It's simple.Pirates help the gaming industry grow.They help make alot of money on hardware for companies like nvidia,sony and nintendo.The console makers try to stop piracy cuz they think that pirates will buy the game if they cannot pirate it but I know alot of pirates and they wont buy games as long as there is atleast one major platform that can be pirated.These companies will post how piracy lost them that many million dollars but it's BS when around 90% of pirates are unlikely to buy the game if they couldnt pirate it so they never really made the company lose any money.

Bu bu teh only PC gaming teh piracy ridden huh?:roll:

Spybot_9

The N64 was pirated... quite a bit actually. It was much more expensive to do then PS1... but PS1 piracy wasn't common durring the PS1 era, because of the disk sizes... most people didn't have high speed internet, downloading n64 roms was hard enough, downloading a disk that's as much as 100 times bigger... is much harder...

Heh... this is great. Every day a new theory as to what will win the gen based on some obscure occurrence from the past.

The console with the most piracy will win! Last time a black console won, so this time a black console will win. The company that released 3 JRPGs in February won so whoever releases 3 JRPGs this February will win.

So tired of these theories. This gen won't end for years, lets talk about who won then.

i see a few flaws in ure argument TC.

MS and sony sell their hardware at a loss. if i buy a PS3 on pirate all my games and movies and so fourth then sony will incurr a loss. same with MS. sure it might make their sales numbers look nice on the hardware front but if ppl just buy the hardware and pirate everythign else then the balance sheets (which are far more important for a business) wont exactly be good looking. also if their games arent sellign then they wont make any more. ninty would turn a profit if they stopped making games and just made hardware...but not alot.

then theres 3rd parties. if everyone pirates those games also then 3rd parties get zip. no money, no incentive to make more games.

so really...piracy doesent help. not in the slightest.

i do agree with u about piracy being blown out of proportion (especially on PC). i was reading an article in total PC gaming UK (a mag) about how some of these companies get their figures and its borderline incompetent. every platform is also indeed hit by piracy. on a side note, that same article also proposed a way of using piracy to promote innovation and better games but the proposal is very flawed imho.

but anywho. piracy is bad, its unjustifiable, its theft. it most certainly does not help the industry grow.

The N64 was pirated... quite a bit actually. It was much more expensive to do then PS1... but PS1 piracy wasn't common durring the PS1 era, because of the disk sizes... most people didn't have high speed internet, downloading n64 roms was hard enough, downloading a disk that's as much as 100 times bigger... is much harder... GundamGuy0

the PS1 was easily modded to play burnt CD any with a PC and a CD burner could copy a game almost everone dod. I had a friend that bought a PS1 went to get it modded turned out it was already modded... someone must bought modded it and returned it.

You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Vyse_The_Daring

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Hurray for theft!!!! It's good for teh economy!!!!!:PRiverwolf007

[QUOTE="br0kenrabbit"][QUOTE="st1ka"]

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"][QUOTE="st1ka"]sooooo... how do you explain the nes and the snes?st1ka

there were pirate games... but its different, these were original unlicensed games which were sold at flea markets but no one bought them because they all sucked, and during that time i already had a lot of PC pirated games like star control 2, wolfenstein 3D or Dune 2

still this hardly same if you ask me

The PS1 expanded the market considerably and many of that goes to piracy.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

The PS1 was far more pirated than the N64(which wasnt even pirated at all IIRC) and easily destroyed it in sales....

The PS2 was the most pirated console and easily defeated the other 2.PS2 games never sell anyway near as much as the no. of systems sold.Obviously there are many second buyers in those numbers but undoubtly it includes many people who dont buy any games or just a few games that they feel are worth it.

Now the wii is the most easily pirated console and it happens to sell the most as well.Pirating the 360 is a suicide as the inevitable RROD will mean buying another console.

What is my point you ask?It's simple.Pirates help the gaming industry grow.They help make alot of money on hardware for companies like nvidia,sony and nintendo.The console makers try to stop piracy cuz they think that pirates will buy the game if they cannot pirate it but I know alot of pirates and they wont buy games as long as there is atleast one major platform that can be pirated.These companies will post how piracy lost them that many million dollars but it's BS when around 90% of pirates are unlikely to buy the game if they couldnt pirate it so they never really made the company lose any money.

Bu bu teh only PC gaming teh piracy ridden huh?:roll:

GundamGuy0

The N64 was pirated... quite a bit actually. It was much more expensive to do then PS1... but PS1 piracy wasn't common durring the PS1 era, because of the disk sizes... most people didn't have high speed internet, downloading n64 roms was hard enough, downloading a disk that's as much as 100 times bigger... is much harder...

One friend buys the game and the rest pirate it.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

The PS1 was far more pirated than the N64(which wasnt even pirated at all IIRC) and easily destroyed it in sales....

The PS2 was the most pirated console and easily defeated the other 2.PS2 games never sell anyway near as much as the no. of systems sold.Obviously there are many second buyers in those numbers but undoubtly it includes many people who dont buy any games or just a few games that they feel are worth it.

Now the wii is the most easily pirated console and it happens to sell the most as well.Pirating the 360 is a suicide as the inevitable RROD will mean buying another console.

What is my point you ask?It's simple.Pirates help the gaming industry grow.They help make alot of money on hardware for companies like nvidia,sony and nintendo.The console makers try to stop piracy cuz they think that pirates will buy the game if they cannot pirate it but I know alot of pirates and they wont buy games as long as there is atleast one major platform that can be pirated.These companies will post how piracy lost them that many million dollars but it's BS when around 90% of pirates are unlikely to buy the game if they couldnt pirate it so they never really made the company lose any money.

Bu bu teh only PC gaming teh piracy ridden huh?:roll:

GundamGuy0

The N64 was pirated... quite a bit actually. It was much more expensive to do then PS1... but PS1 piracy wasn't common durring the PS1 era, because of the disk sizes... most people didn't have high speed internet, downloading n64 roms was hard enough, downloading a disk that's as much as 100 times bigger... is much harder...

ps1 piracy was very common. I used to be a big pirate back then. I think I bought about 3 ps1 games and pirated about 200.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Spybot_9

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

i see a few flaws in ure argument TC.

MS and sony sell their hardware at a loss. if i buy a PS3 on pirate all my games and movies and so fourth then sony will incurr a loss. same with MS. sure it might make their sales numbers look nice on the hardware front but if ppl just buy the hardware and pirate everythign else then the balance sheets (which are far more important for a business) wont exactly be good looking. also if their games arent sellign then they wont make any more. ninty would turn a profit if they stopped making games and just made hardware...but not alot.

then theres 3rd parties. if everyone pirates those games also then 3rd parties get zip. no money, no incentive to make more games.

so really...piracy doesent help. not in the slightest.

i do agree with u about piracy being blown out of proportion (especially on PC). i was reading an article in total PC gaming UK (a mag) about how some of these companies get their figures and its borderline incompetent. every platform is also indeed hit by piracy. on a side note, that same article also proposed a way of using piracy to promote innovation and better games but the proposal is very flawed imho.

but anywho. piracy is bad, its unjustifiable, its theft. it most certainly does not help the industry grow.

osan0

[QUOTE="osan0"]

i see a few flaws in ure argument TC.

MS and sony sell their hardware at a loss. if i buy a PS3 on pirate all my games and movies and so fourth then sony will incurr a loss. same with MS. sure it might make their sales numbers look nice on the hardware front but if ppl just buy the hardware and pirate everythign else then the balance sheets (which are far more important for a business) wont exactly be good looking. also if their games arent sellign then they wont make any more. ninty would turn a profit if they stopped making games and just made hardware...but not alot.

then theres 3rd parties. if everyone pirates those games also then 3rd parties get zip. no money, no incentive to make more games.

so really...piracy doesent help. not in the slightest.

i do agree with u about piracy being blown out of proportion (especially on PC). i was reading an article in total PC gaming UK (a mag) about how some of these companies get their figures and its borderline incompetent. every platform is also indeed hit by piracy. on a side note, that same article also proposed a way of using piracy to promote innovation and better games but the proposal is very flawed imho.

but anywho. piracy is bad, its unjustifiable, its theft. it most certainly does not help the industry grow.

Spybot_9

Proof that it's BS please.

There is no real proof of this correlation. It's as much as justified as saying the PS3 will fail because all other consoles on their third turn failed. Also you fail because the psp is much easier to pirate than the DS yet the DS is owning the psp.

Pirates are driven by good games and ease of piracy. Casuals think the wii has the best games and it is also easier to pirate.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Spybot_9

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Vyse_The_Daring

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

Halo 2 sold more than a third of what the xbox sold.SSBM also sold more than a quarter of gamecube sales.No PS2 game comes close to these figures.

And to the people saying that PS2 wasnt the easiet console to mod,it's not just about modding it yourself.There are many countries where you can buy modded consoles in open markets and it's all legal there.The dreamcast and original xbox never penetrated those markets very well.When the xbox was cracked,the PS2 already had far too much momentum and obviously if a pirate has a choice then he will buy the system with the better games in the case of the xbox and PS2.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Vyse_The_Daring

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?JLF1

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?Spybot_9

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

Halo 2 sold more than a third of what the xbox sold.SSBM also sold more than a quarter of gamecube sales.No PS2 game comes close to these figures.

And to the people saying that PS2 wasnt the easiet console to mod,it's not just about modding it yourself.There are many countries where you can buy modded consoles in open markets and it's all legal there.The dreamcast and original xbox never penetrated those markets very well.When the xbox was cracked,the PS2 already had far too much momentum and obviously if a pirate has a choice then he will buy the system with the better games in the case of the xbox and PS2.

Uh, the first comment I quoted from you said "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of consoles sold," so you did say it.

The Xbox and GC also had much smaller and less diverse libraries, so when great games came out for them more people were inclined to buy them. The PS2's superior library is pretty much fact. More great games to choose from leads to less people forking out the $60 for the same game.

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?JLF1

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

um.. read his post more carefully...

[QUOTE="Spybot_9"][QUOTE="osan0"]

i see a few flaws in ure argument TC.

MS and sony sell their hardware at a loss. if i buy a PS3 on pirate all my games and movies and so fourth then sony will incurr a loss. same with MS. sure it might make their sales numbers look nice on the hardware front but if ppl just buy the hardware and pirate everythign else then the balance sheets (which are far more important for a business) wont exactly be good looking. also if their games arent sellign then they wont make any more. ninty would turn a profit if they stopped making games and just made hardware...but not alot.

then theres 3rd parties. if everyone pirates those games also then 3rd parties get zip. no money, no incentive to make more games.

so really...piracy doesent help. not in the slightest.

i do agree with u about piracy being blown out of proportion (especially on PC). i was reading an article in total PC gaming UK (a mag) about how some of these companies get their figures and its borderline incompetent. every platform is also indeed hit by piracy. on a side note, that same article also proposed a way of using piracy to promote innovation and better games but the proposal is very flawed imho.

but anywho. piracy is bad, its unjustifiable, its theft. it most certainly does not help the industry grow.

Vyse_The_Daring

Proof that it's BS please.

And dont give me some estimates by some analyst who knows nothing about how things go in the factory.Besides it's only logical.You can build a PC much more powerful than the 360 for the same price.Yes it doesnt have the labour cost of making a console in one piece but we are talking about individual components on which the company makes a substantial profit since they only make profit on hardware and they dont produce in as much bulk quantity as the consoles.And to top it off it is much more powerful than the console for the same price.

I mean if an 8800GS is selling for $70 meaning it is obviously much cheaper to manufacture then how much you think the 360 GPU costs to manufacture which is twice weakerand is produced more than any other PC GPU meaning more economies of scale?

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"][QUOTE="Spybot_9"]

[QUOTE="Vyse_The_Daring"]You lost me at "PS2 games never sell as much as the no. of systems sold". Do you really expect any game to sell 100+ million copies? :?JLF1

The fact that no game comes close to those figures is clear indication that the PS2 doesnt have anyway near as many users buying games as the ones playing games on it.

Or maybe it's a clear indication that people have different tastes?

Give us an example of a system that is difficult to pirate and has a game with sales nearly equal to the number of systems.

Besides how much did GTA4 and MGS4 sell on the PS3?

You people arent getting the point.I am not saying that a game should sell a 100 million on the PS2 but none of it's games even come close to selling a quarter of it's total sales which tells how much it in the hands of the pirates.

There is no real proof of this correlation. It's as much as justified as saying the PS3 will fail because all other consoles on their third turn failed. Also you fail because the psp is much easier to pirate than the DS yet the DS is owning the psp.

Pirates are driven by good games and ease of piracy. Casuals think the wii has the best games and it is also easier to pirate.

munu9

so people buy Consules to pirate them? What the heck does that mean? Why would people buy them if they can just get emulatersfootfoe2

Oh wait....:|

Proof that it's not BS please?

And dont give me some estimates by some analyst who knows nothing about how things go in the factory.Besides it's only logical.You can build a PC much more powerful than the 360 for the same price.Yes it doesnt have the labour cost of making a console in one piece but we are talking about individual components on which the company makes a substantial profit since they only make profit on hardware and they dont produce in as much bulk quantity as the consoles.And to top it off it is much more powerful than the console for the same price.

I mean if an 8800GS is selling for $70 meaning it is obviously much cheaper to manufacture then how much you think the 360 GPU costs to manufacture which is twice weakerand is produced more than any other PC GPU meaning more economies of scale?

Spybot_9

The problem is if everyone would pirate games every developer would go under.

Yes the fact that people buys consoles to play copied games help the sales of those consoles but that doesn't help the industry.

The growth of those consoles isn't b/c of pirating. Pirating is stronger on those consoles b/c of their growth and popularity.scottie300z

I live in a thrid world country and many of my friends are dying to get a PS3 and MGS4 but then they say "who will continue to buy original games duh forget it".

Also, the OP is likely correct. Ease of pirating may have been one of the main reasons Xbox outsold the Gamecube. I know for a fact it drove PS1 sales, my cousin actually sold pirated games for that system, he'd give you brand new games for as little as five bucks. I never took him up on it, but he had a collection of over one hundred games for the system, and not one was legit. He just rented them, then returned them, then made money off all the pirated copies he made. Also, ever notice how well the PSP sells, despite the absolutely flat software numbers? Emulators. Ever wonder why the PS2 still moves so many consoles? Piracy, cheap pirated copies of PS2's best titles are EVERYWHERE. The thread creator is bang on, ease of piracy can and does move systems.

Though I still don't know what exactly is worth pirating on the Wii, outside of a few Nintendo first party games. Seriously. But I guess Grandma see's a lot of appeal in only paying five bucks for Wii Sports 2.

[QUOTE="munu9"]

There is no real proof of this correlation. It's as much as justified as saying the PS3 will fail because all other consoles on their third turn failed. Also you fail because the psp is much easier to pirate than the DS yet the DS is owning the psp.

Pirates are driven by good games and ease of piracy. Casuals think the wii has the best games and it is also easier to pirate.

fazares

Actually, most DS games are 30mb or under in size... but that's not the point, what the TC is saying is that ther eis a parallel between the console that is easier to mod, with the console that sells the best per generation. And in that sense, he is correct, I don't think he's saying its ok or anything. Developers still lose money, or at least if you compare the numbers to the 'hypothetical' numbers they think they should be selling...

[QUOTE="munu9"]

There is no real proof of this correlation. It's as much as justified as saying the PS3 will fail because all other consoles on their third turn failed. Also you fail because the psp is much easier to pirate than the DS yet the DS is owning the psp.

Pirates are driven by good games and ease of piracy. Casuals think the wii has the best games and it is also easier to pirate.

fazares

Uh no, you need to buy the R4 chip. Which you normally wouldn't buy. With the psp, you can use the same memory stick where you would normally put your music and video to put your pirate games. And those memory sticks are way more widely available than the R4.

Proof that it's not BS please?

And dont give me some estimates by some analyst who knows nothing about how things go in the factory.Besides it's only logical.You can build a PC much more powerful than the 360 for the same price.Yes it doesnt have the labour cost of making a console in one piece but we are talking about individual components on which the company makes a substantial profit since they only make profit on hardware and they dont produce in as much bulk quantity as the consoles.And to top it off it is much more powerful than the console for the same price.

I mean if an 8800GS is selling for $70 meaning it is obviously much cheaper to manufacture then how much you think the 360 GPU costs to manufacture which is twice weakerand is produced more than any other PC GPU meaning more economies of scale?

Spybot_9

The beauty of it is I don't have to prove a negative. You made the statement, I asked for proof. It's been common knowledge for quite some time that (at first, until prices come down) consoles are sold at a loss. It didn't become common knowledge just because it was posted by some troll on an internet message board. If you want to prove your point, then post some damn proof.

And the thing is, all of the companies that make the individual parts of consoles (CPUs, graphics cards, etc) sell their parts for profit because they don't make the money back on software the way Sony/MS do.

So, let's say I make a console that has that $70 8800GS in it. To make profit, I'd have to add at least $71 to the price of the console. If you add up the cost of all the parts that go into a console, plus the cost of: R&D, mass production, advertising, etc. you'd have to sell one expensive console to break even. It makes much more sense to sell at a loss, get the install base, and make money back on software. That's why consoles are originally sold at a loss.

Of course, I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong. But you made the statement, so you have to prove it.