Are you happy not having intellectual complex video games?

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Edited 1 year, 8 days ago

Poll: Are you happy not having intellectual complex video games? (27 votes)

I want more complex intellectual titles 63%
Games are great streamlined, more people playing the better. 15%
Games aren't streamlined enough 7%
David Cage 15%

My friends. Today I played "Dark Forced II". After 6 hours of trying to get it to work I thought "wow, this game is complex, the level design is complex and it has puzzles that i get stuck on".

Then I think of KOTORand I think "why is this getting more praise? It's boring in comparison".

I came to the conclusion, many people who played KOTOR, never experienced Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II and thus have no jumping point for comparison. This was a great conclusion to an enduring internal conflict.

Are you happy with game design (mechanics and levels) becoming increasingly streamlined or would you prefer more complex, ntellectual games designed primarily for for adult minds?

#1 Posted by lundy86_4 (44021 posts) -

Reading your post, i'm not sure that you're ready.

#2 Edited by HadOne2Many (1469 posts) -

Sometimes you want something complex, sometimes you don't. Just like movies. Luckily there's room for both in the industry.

#3 Posted by R3FURBISHED (10791 posts) -

Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does. Plus we still get games like Braid and Fez.

#4 Posted by Salt_The_Fries (9652 posts) -

Kudos for bringing up Dark Forces 2, I watched some videos of it a couple of days ago and thought to myself how well it aged.

#5 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@R3FURBISHED said:

Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does. Plus we still get games like Braid and Fez.

But these aren't complex or intellectual. they are pretentious.

#6 Posted by Ballroompirate (23591 posts) -

@lundy86_4 said:

Reading your post, i'm not sure that you're ready.

/high five

#7 Edited by DocSanchez (2144 posts) -

Are you happy being a boring, antagonistic wanker?

#8 Posted by R3FURBISHED (10791 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@R3FURBISHED said:

Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does. Plus we still get games like Braid and Fez.

But these aren't complex or intellectual. they are pretentious.

Thank you for making my point. "Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does."

#9 Posted by AdobeArtist (22999 posts) -

@R3FURBISHED said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@R3FURBISHED said:

Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does. Plus we still get games like Braid and Fez.

But these aren't complex or intellectual. they are pretentious.

Thank you for making my point. "Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does."

TC seems to make the presumption that he alone is the authority for what constitutes "intellectual and complex"

#10 Edited by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@lundy86_4 said:

Reading your post, i'm not sure that you're ready.

My friend, as a former athlete in the mplayer UK Quake 3 team , this is highly doubtful. To be officially sanctioned as the best of the best is a great honor indeed.

#11 Posted by lkjghhrkj (25 posts) -

I'm so happy that some people still remember Dark Forces II, it is still my favorite FPS of all time. The level design in this game is just so complex but at the same time very well crafted. BTW Dark Forces I has also very good level design. Jedi Outcast level design is also good but its main drawback is that it doesn't have the vast areas of Dark Forces II.

#12 Posted by PrincessGomez92 (3728 posts) -

Yawn.

#13 Edited by TheEroica (14305 posts) -

Maybe the most pretentious op I've ever read... Passing off personal experience as all encompassing intellect... Wow.

#14 Posted by R4gn4r0k (17445 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@lundy86_4 said:

Reading your post, i'm not sure that you're ready.

My friend, as a former athlete in the mplayer UK Quake 3 team , this is highly doubtful. To be officially sanctioned as the best of the best is a great honor indeed.

What does playing Q3 have to do with being intelligent ?

I completely agree with lundy

#15 Edited by dreamdude (4619 posts) -

A game just has to be fun. Complexity, graphics, story and such are all just a bonus to me.

#16 Posted by SolidGame_basic (18958 posts) -

I just love games man

#17 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@TheEroica said:

KOTOR is a brilliant game that makes incredible use of a famed IP. In every way, Bioware succeeded in making a legit GOAT contender.

My friend, Bioware already won game of the year with the Baldur Gate series. Indeed, this is essentially what KOTOR is, a stripped down version of Baldur Gates mechanics. Interestingly, although Baldurs Gate has some major balance issues due to DnD mechanics, KOTOR (and II) somehow manage to be even more unbalanced. It's quite baffling. The entire game can be won simply by spamming electricity. KOTOR II manages to get by with superior story-telling but gameplay wise, I feel deeply I must disagree with you in this regard.

#18 Posted by HadOne2Many (1469 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: did you just refer to yourself as an "athlete" because you were in a gaming tournament ?

#19 Posted by Celtic_34 (1409 posts) -

I think these games are dumbed d own to cater to everyone. Cater to everyone. Sell more. I mind it but also don't. I used to find games more fun that i could delve into the inner workings of them though and had a ton of depth. Now games are more mindless entertainment. I think it's the lack of depth i miss the most.

#20 Edited by AdobeArtist (22999 posts) -
@HadOne2Many said:

@uninspiredcup: did you just refer to yourself as an "athlete" because you were in a gaming tournament ?

Basically... this;

#21 Posted by blackace (21272 posts) -

@HadOne2Many said:

Sometimes you want something complex, sometimes you don't. Just like movies. Luckily there's room for both in the industry.

This ^ ^ ^ ^. I've played both KoToR and Dark Forces 1 & 2 on PC. Dark Forces was a great game. I got lost and stuck on parts as well. Climbing on those wall ledges was a pain in the ***.

#22 Edited by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -
@AdobeArtist said:
@HadOne2Many said:

@uninspiredcup: did you just refer to yourself as an "athlete" because you were in a gaming tournament ?

Basically... this;

Even if one disregarded e-sports as a non creditable sport, which frankly, is a great disservice, Charity events have been done to help ill kiddies whom we should all care about and thus earn of the status of athlete regardless.

My friends, "athlete" is a state of mind. If you watch Rocky 3, Rocky is beaten by Clubber Lang not because he is physically weaker but because he lacks "the eye of the tiger". i.e. a state of mind.. Talent and skill are intrinsically two different things. Talent comes naturally, skill is something that required development. Without an athletes mindset the dedication required to be a winner will not come to fruition. The hart of a winner is not a light switch that goes on and off, it's on constantly. This applies not just to physical sports, not just to gaming but everything we do in life.

#23 Posted by IgGy621985 (4897 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Even if one disregarded e-sports as a non creditable sport, which frankly, is a great disservice, Charity events have been done to help ill kiddies whom we should all care about and thus earn of the status of athlete regardless.

My friends, "athlete" is a state of mind. If you watch Rocky 3, Rocky is beaten by Clubber Lang not because he is physically weaker but because he lacks "the eye of the tiger". i.e. a state of mind.. Talent and skill are intrinsically two different things. Talent comes naturally, skill is something that required development. Without an athletes mindset the dedication required to be a winner will not come to fruition. The hart of a winner is not a light switch that goes on and off, it's on constantly. This applies not just to physical sports, not just to gaming but everything we do in life.

So.... you're comparing yourself with Rocky?

#24 Posted by jake44 (2040 posts) -

@DocSanchez said:

Are you happy being a boring, antagonistic wanker?

I think he is.

#25 Posted by foxhound_fox (90309 posts) -

Spec Ops: The Line

#26 Edited by HadOne2Many (1469 posts) -

@IgGy621985 said:

@uninspiredcup said:

Even if one disregarded e-sports as a non creditable sport, which frankly, is a great disservice, Charity events have been done to help ill kiddies whom we should all care about and thus earn of the status of athlete regardless.

My friends, "athlete" is a state of mind. If you watch Rocky 3, Rocky is beaten by Clubber Lang not because he is physically weaker but because he lacks "the eye of the tiger". i.e. a state of mind.. Talent and skill are intrinsically two different things. Talent comes naturally, skill is something that required development. Without an athletes mindset the dedication required to be a winner will not come to fruition. The hart of a winner is not a light switch that goes on and off, it's on constantly. This applies not just to physical sports, not just to gaming but everything we do in life.

So.... you're comparing yourself with Rocky?

#27 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (17008 posts) -

Oh well. My idea of complex is more like this. There isn't an FPS game in existence that I can even remotely call complex. FPS games are what I play if I don't want to think too much.

#28 Edited by br0kenrabbit (13359 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

Are you happy with game design (mechanics and levels) becoming increasingly streamlined or would you prefer more complex, ntellectual (sic) games designed primarily for for adult minds?

It's half the reason I game almost exclusively on PC (I do have a PSP for those airport delays). You just don't get complexity like Civilization, Total War, or even simulators on consoles. Hell, half the games I play are grognard games. If a grognard game was released on consoles, consolites would be all "lol teh graphixs no thanx more TLOU plz."

#29 Posted by PsychoLemons (2299 posts) -

I hate these kind of statements.

'Complex' games=/=A good game.

#30 Posted by blangenakker (2539 posts) -

Mate, the world doesn't revolve around you so I would suggest you stay off the internet for a few days.

#31 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@blangenakker said:

Mate, the world doesn't revolve around you so I would suggest you stay off the internet for a few days.

Technically speaking, the moon use to be part of earth. And does rotate around the earth, which I am on.

Thus, the world does indeed rotate around me. Literally.

#32 Posted by lostrib (41234 posts) -

@AdobeArtist said:

@R3FURBISHED said:

@uninspiredcup said:

@R3FURBISHED said:

Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does. Plus we still get games like Braid and Fez.

But these aren't complex or intellectual. they are pretentious.

Thank you for making my point. "Just because one person doesn't find a game "intellectually" compelling does not mean that another does."

TC seems to make the presumption that he alone is the authority for what constitutes "intellectual and complex"

Based on this thread, he is far from the authority on what constitutes "intellectual"

#33 Posted by XboxDone74 (2116 posts) -

Somebody sounds butthurt

#34 Posted by blangenakker (2539 posts) -

@uninspiredcup said:

@blangenakker said:

Mate, the world doesn't revolve around you so I would suggest you stay off the internet for a few days.

Technically speaking, the moon use to be part of earth. And does rotate around the earth, which I am on.

Thus, the world does indeed rotate around me. Literally.

Mhmm, obviously you don't care what people say so, I'll just leave you be in your little world.

#35 Edited by getyeryayasout (8182 posts) -

Sometimes. But overall, not really. They don't necessarily need to be more complex, they just need to make death effect you negatively. So few games actually punish you for dying. It's one of the reasons the Souls series is so great. Sure, you have a chance to reclaim your soul pile, but if you don't make it, potentially hours worth of soul harvesting flushed down the drain.

#37 Posted by lostrib (41234 posts) -

@SNIPER4321 said:

Im no fan of games you mention and hate stars wars as universe but thing about what ruined complex game is. well i cant blame just consoles, developers become corrupt and money hungry and new generation gamers who start playing on xbox buy every thing media say and hipster PC gamers never complain and always happy what they got. and that i got problem

if we raise our voice. protest in a front of developers that they actually listen to us and start making complex and deep hardcore games.

*facepalm*

#38 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

So much nonsense in this thread.

Esports =/= athletics. Moron.

#39 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@El_Zo1212o said:

So much nonsense in this thread.

Esports =/= athletics. Moron.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/athlete

#40 Edited by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: I don't give a shit what your piddling definition says- when I see Tekken replacing martial arts at the Olympics, then I'll try to not snicker at morons calling themselves "athletes" over a fuckin' videogame. And not one second before.

Moron.

#41 Edited by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@El_Zo1212o said:

@uninspiredcup: I don't give a shit what your piddling definition says- when I see Tekken replacing martial arts at the Olympics, then I'll try to not snicker at morons calling themselves "athletes" over a fuckin' videogame. And now one second before.

Moron.

But I'm right.

#42 Edited by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

Christ! What's next? A group of assholes calling themselves "soldiers" because they won a Call of Duty tourney?

#43 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@El_Zo1212o said:

Call of Duty tourney?

Not athletes.

#44 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: you're not even right according to your own definition!

"A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports"

PHYSICAL EXERCISE OR SPORTS. Dickhead.

#45 Posted by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@El_Zo1212o said:

@uninspiredcup: you're not even right according to your own definition!

"A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports"

PHYSICAL EXERCISE OR SPORTS. Dickhead.

Not all page.

#46 Edited by Gaming-Planet (14170 posts) -

It's an insult to my intelligence to have games like Call of Duty.

Seriously though, not all games have to be overly complex. Sometimes you just want to do simple tasks to kill your time away.

#47 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

Why drop the link when everything it says works AGAINST your claim?

"1. (Athletics (Track & Field)) a person trained to compete in sports or exercises involving physical strength, speed, or endurance

2. a person who has a natural aptitude for physical activities

3. (Athletics (Track & Field)) Brit a competitor in track and field events"

EXERCISES INVOLVING PHYSICAL STRENGTH, SPEED, OR ENDURANCE

PHYSICAL ACTIVITIES

Nothing involving contests to see who can sit on their ass pushing buttons most effectively.

Brain dead nitwit.

#48 Edited by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@El_Zo1212o said:

@uninspiredcup: . Dickhead.

@El_Zo1212o said:

@uninspiredcup:

Moron.

@El_Zo1212o said:
. Moron.

@El_Zo1212o said:

assholes

My friend, while I admire your passion, as a former professional athlete with impressive amounts of endurance, I must disagree

BTW you should check out "The Wolverine". Bad final act with weird CGI robot thing but the rest of it is pretty decent.

#49 Posted by El_Zo1212o (6038 posts) -

@uninspiredcup: ever win anything involving physical activity? Did you receive monetary compensation for such a victory? The only believable answers here are "no" and "no."

Making you an idiot and a liar, being neither an athlete nor a professional.

So you have fun with your e-peen enlarging phallus-ies(get it?), I've accomplished what I needed to in this thread.

#50 Edited by uninspiredcup (11930 posts) -

@Gaming-Planet said:

Seriously though, not all games have to be overly complex. Sometimes you just want to do simple tasks to kill your time away.

Agreed. Although in certain cases (e.g. tactical shooters) complex games have moved into the realm of "almost dead" as opposed to niche. As a fan of the genre it's deeply saddening. Arma, while bountiful in quantity, barely fills the void.