1080p does not matter. (Class is in session, Professor UnnDunn presiding.)

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UnnDunn

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#1 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
Pay attention, class. There will be a test at the end of this class.

1080p does not matter. Here's why:

There are a number of facts that must be grasped first:
  1. All digital displays are progressive scan by nature.
  2. Virtually all film releases are shot at 24 frames per second and are progressive scan.
  3. 1080i delivers 30 frames per second, and 1080p delivers 60 frames per second.
  4. All HDTV broadcasts and virtually all games will be limited to 720p or 1080i for the foreseeable future.
Got all that? Good. Now lets go into the explanation.

Movies

Take a movie. It's 24 frames per second, progressive scan. This is the nature of how movies are shot on film today. Just about all movies are shot this way; the only exceptions are films where the director or producer wants to make an artistic statement. But if you saw it at your local multiplex, it's in 24fps progressive.

Now, let's put it onto a disc so we can sell it. First, we scan each individual frame of the movie, one by one, at a super high resolution (far higher than even 1080p.) This gives us a digital negative of the film, from which every digital version of the film will be made (this means the HD, DVD, On-demand, PPV, digital download, digital cable and PSP versions were all made from this one digital negative.) We'll only concern ourselves with the HD version for now.

Because it's HD, we'll take the digital negative and re-encode it in MPEG2, .h264 or VC1 at 1920x1080 and 24 frames per second to match the source material. And this is how it is on the disc when you get it from the store, whether it's Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

Once you put it in your disc player to view the film, a number of things happen.

1080i/1080p
Because the film is in 24fps, and 1080i is 30fps, every second the player has to come up with 6 additional frames to make up the gap. It does this through a process called 3:2 pulldown whereby 4 film frames (1/6th of a second of the film) are processed to create 5 video frames (1/6th of a second on your TV screen). Just exactly how this is done is outside the scope of this post (click here) but the important thing to realize is none of the picture data is lost during this process; just re-formatted.

Now, here's the crucial difference between 1080i and 1080p, as it relates to movies. With 1080i transmission, the player interlaces the frames during the pulldown and sends the interlaced frames to the TV set to be deinterlaced. With 1080p transmission, the player never interlaces the frames. Click to see how deinterlacing works. Regardless, you will get the exact same result. The only exception is if you have a crap TV that doesn't deinterlace properly, but chances are that TV won't support 1080p anyway.

So 1080p doesn't matter for movies.

Television

Television is a little different. Television is typically not shot on film, it's shot on video which is a vastly different technique. While movies are almost always shot at 24fps, standard-def NTSC TV is shot at 30fps interlaced, and HDTV is shot at whatever the production company decides, usually 1080i at 30fps, or 720p at 60fps, depending on the network. What, no 1080p? Nope. Why? Bandwidth.

The American ATSC standard gives each broadcaster 19.4Mbps to transmit video for each broadcast channel. Broadcasters are free to transmit as many streams as they want as long as the total bandwidth for all the channels does not exceed 19.4Mbps. Consider that one 1080i stream compressed using MPEG2 at decent quality takes up about 12Mbps. Now consider that an equivalent 1080p stream will take up twice that bandwidth. You can see why nobody does 1080p, and this situation will not change until a new encoding standard arrives, which won't happen for at least another decade.

So 1080p doesn't matter for television.

Games

Ah, now we come to the heart of the matter. Games. The reason why there will be very few 1080p games is a simple one: lack of memory. All graphics cards, including those found in Xbox 360 and PS3, have what's known as a frame-buffer. This is a chunk of memory set aside to store the color information of every pixel that makes up a frame that will be sent to the screen. Every single calculation the graphics card makes is designed to figure out how to fill up the frame-buffer so it can send the contents of the frame-buffer to the screen.

Time to break out the calculators, because we're doing some math.

A 720p frame is 1280 pixels wide by 720 pixels high. That means one 720p frame contains 921,600 pixels. Today's graphics cards use 32-bit color for the final frame. This means each pixel requires 32 bits - 4 bytes - to represent its color information. 921,600x4 = 3,686,400 bytes or a little over 3.5MB.

A 1080i frame is 1920 pixels wide by 540 high. That's 1,036,800 pixels, 4,147,200 bytes or a little less than 4MB.

Now, a 1080p frame. 1920 wide by 1080 high. 2,073,600 pixels, 8,294,400 bytes, a smidgen less than 8MB.

Ooh, but the 360 has 512MB, and the PS3 has 256MB for graphics. How is 8MB going to hurt? Oh, it hurts. Graphics cards will have several internal frame-buffers to handle different rendering passes, and each one requires memory. And the textures and mapping surfaces all have to fit within that same memory space. In the case of the 360, there's also audio and game data fighting for the same space (though the "space" is twice as big on Xbox 360.) That's why GTHD looked like crap, because in order to get it running in 1080p, they sacrificed most of the rendering passes and other effects.

This is why the vast, vast majority of Xbox 360 and PS3 next-gen games will stick to 1080i or 720p.

So 1080p doesn't matter for games.

In conclusion, 1080p does not matter. Period. If you think it does, you're just buying in to Sony's marketing hype.

Class dismissed.
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waynehead895

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#2 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
It would only matter to those looking for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies. For me, it doesn't matter. Since HDTV is brodcasted in 1080i/720p and most or all 360's retail games are the same, and my tv is under 50in.
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Renegade_Fury

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#3 Renegade_Fury
Member since 2003 • 21708 Posts
It matters to me, I like being future ready and having everything top of the line.
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AntiType

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#4 AntiType
Member since 2003 • 6249 Posts
HD does not matter
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Happyphilter

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#5 Happyphilter
Member since 2004 • 1347 Posts
Wow, GREAT post. I just hope people take the time to read through all of it and not just post some dumb comment.
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Boriboy

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#6 Boriboy
Member since 2006 • 4731 Posts

1080p matters even without 1080p sources


MYTH #1: 1080i is not 1080p

Yes it is!
The quality of 1080p you get is sometimes variable but you definitely get excellent (even 100% accurate) 1080p content from 1080i sources.

Aside: 1080i is the transmission standard used by most North America broadcasters - so there is lots of it around.

1080i is actually 1080/60i (1920x540 pixels in 60 interlaced fields per second).
All plasma and LCD monitors render only progressive content (or complete frames). Interlaced content, like 1080/60i, must be converted prior to being rendered. For a 1080p monitor (i.e., a monitor with 1920x1080 native pixels or higher) that usually means conversion to one of the 3 most common 1080p variants, namely: 1080/60p, 1080/30p, 1080/24p (1920x1080 pixels in 60, 30 and 24 frames per second respectively). Converting 1080/60i to 1080/30p is the most straight forward - but even that is not easy. A top-of-line monitor (or video processor for that matter) will read two successive interlaced 1920x540 pixels fields and stitch them together to create one progressive 1920x1080 pixel frame. When done over 60 interlaced fields a second, you end up with 1080/30p. The challenge is dealing with the 60th of a second time difference between fields. Good software (with equally stellar processor power) can interpolate and create a "pretty good" reconstructed frame. But in practice, things are much better. Movies and anything shot with a progressive video camera have no time difference between successive interlaced fields because field pairs are constructed from one original frame (a variation of 3:2 pull-down performed on each frame). With movies and progressive source material, reconstruction of the frame can be PERFECT. In other words, this material makes 1080i == 1080p.

MYTH #2: You can't get good 1080p content from SD sources

Yes you can - if you can get properly encoded material.

Next time you see SD material on your HDTV, look closely. The jagged edges from the original 780x420 pixel content is hardly noticeable (and can be easily smoothed with good software). Of course you need a good conversion processor because most broadcast content and ALL SD DVD content is 480i (with all the challenges mentioned in MYTH #1). In the end, it is compression artifacts that are killing the image. The ghosts, random dots, color shifts and other common anomolies are compression problems.

Blu-ray and HD DVDs are great. But existing 480i content would be spectacular if it was encoded in progressive format at bit rates higher than the 6MB/s upper limit imposed on SD DVDs. Most SD material ends up being compressed near 10:1 by the time it gets on the DVD. It's the compression that makes SD content look bad in HD, not necessarily the 720x480 frame size.

MYTH #3: SD content has about 1/4 the resolution of 1080p content

It doesn't have to be. Think about MYTH #2. What if you delivered SD content without a 10:1 compression factor? How will that content look relative to highly compressed Blu-ray - or worse - highly compressed HD DVD content? Compression artifacts do more to hurt content rendering than almost anything else. What's going to happen to HD content when we stuff 20 GB of "bonus" material on every DVD?
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Nagidar

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#7 Nagidar
Member since 2006 • 6231 Posts
1080i is not 1920 x 540, it is 1920 x 1080 of  interlaced lines.
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aubsurd

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#8 aubsurd
Member since 2003 • 310 Posts
I agree with you 100% but I have a question Why are 1080p TV's taking over circuit city, best buy, etc??? also Isnt HDMI 1080p? and HDMI has some anti piracy or something in it and the FCC is going to enforce it eventually
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UnnDunn

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#9 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
1080i is not 1920 x 540, it is 1920 x 1080 of interlaced lines.Nagidar
In terms of the framebuffer, it's only 1920x540, because that's how many pixels get sent to the display at once. Though I guess i should have said a 1080i field is 1920x540. My bad.
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SunLord592

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#10 SunLord592
Member since 2003 • 2651 Posts
[QUOTE="Renegade_Fury"] It matters to me, I like being future ready and having everything top of the line.



if u wanna stay top f the line in electronics have fun changing ur tv ever year :P

and to the original poster, very will written i actually learned something, bravo :D
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UnnDunn

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#12 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
[QUOTE="aubsurd"]I agree with you 100% but I have a question Why are 1080p TV's taking over circuit city, best buy, etc??? also Isnt HDMI 1080p? and HDMI has some anti piracy or something in it and the FCC is going to enforce it eventually

1080p is taking over mainly because it's an easy thing to do, but it has this aura of being a really high-end feature, so TV makers can use it to justify a $1000 price bump on their displays (and Sony can use it to justify a $500 price bump on a Blu-ray player.) Again, all digital displays are progressive by nature. The only difference between a 1080i set and a 1080p set is whether it can accept 1080p input or not. It has nothing to do with the hardware, and everything to do with the software processing the incoming signal. HDMI doesn't automatically mean 1080p and vice versa. 1080p can be delivered over both component and HDMI. The anti-piracy thing is a whole other can of worms that doesn't belong in this thread. If you really want to know, PM me and i'll explain it for you.
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evolutionight

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#13 evolutionight
Member since 2005 • 351 Posts

Well since my tv can display in that res, it matters to me

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NickG1215

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#14 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
finally somebody else realizes that 1080p is just a marketing ploy.  unless you sit right next to the screen you can't tell anyways.
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NickG1215

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#15 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
[QUOTE="aubsurd"]I agree with you 100% but I have a question Why are 1080p TV's taking over circuit city, best buy, etc??? also Isnt HDMI 1080p? and HDMI has some anti piracy or something in it and the FCC is going to enforce it eventually

taking over? i've seen maybe 3 1080p tvs at my local bestbuy. the vast majority are still 720p/1080i sets. i expect this to continue for some time since you can watch br and hd-dvd movies in 1080i and still get the same quality, and you can play games in 720p for the best quality. also what is hi def satellite or cable tv? isn't it 720p?
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CeleronCheese

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#16 CeleronCheese
Member since 2006 • 883 Posts
I rather have more effects and lighting and better textures at 720p Then 1080p with little effects, crap lighting and crap textures.
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UnnDunn

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#17 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
[QUOTE="NickG1215"]also what is hi def satellite or cable tv? isn't it 720p?

It depends on the network. Most cable HD channels are 1080i, but ESPN HD and ESPN 2 HD are 720p, and I believe Fox Sports Net HD is 720p as well.
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MonkeyMan8708

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#18 MonkeyMan8708
Member since 2003 • 2712 Posts
Wow..my head hurts. I'm not really hardware savvy, so I don't think I'll be taking much of that with me. Looking at the posts it obviously makes perfect sense to some people, but I'm not really up to par on this sort of stuff. Anyways, good to know :P
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NickG1215

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#19 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
[QUOTE="UnnDunn"][QUOTE="NickG1215"]also what is hi def satellite or cable tv? isn't it 720p?

It depends on the network. Most cable HD channels are 1080i, but ESPN HD and ESPN 2 HD are 720p, and I believe Fox Sports Net HD is 720p as well.

either way you'd be better off just purchasing a 720p/1080i set.
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UnnDunn

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#20 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
Wow..my head hurts. I'm not really hardware savvy, so I don't think I'll be taking much of that with me. Looking at the posts it obviously makes perfect sense to some people, but I'm not really up to par on this sort of stuff. Anyways, good to know :PMonkeyMan8708
Heh. ;)

Next time, if some Cow or some salesman tries to fill your head with 1080p hype to try to get you to buy an overpriced TV or game console, ignore them or point them to this thread. Then i'll have done my job. :)

Buy the TV or console because it has better picture quality or better games. Don't buy it because it makes a big deal about 1080p.
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da1on2

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#21 da1on2
Member since 2006 • 4885 Posts
I read only some of this, and i can say I still plan on getting a 1080p, basically what i got from your article is its meaningless to upgrade if you already have 720p/1080i, but 1080p is still better
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waynehead895

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#22 waynehead895
Member since 2005 • 18660 Posts
I read only some of this, and i can say I still plan on getting a 1080p, basically what i got from your article is its meaningless to upgrade if you already have 720p/1080i, but 1080p is still betterda1on2
This is true. But as of now, it's limited to use.
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raiden7890

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#23 raiden7890
Member since 2004 • 1608 Posts
ook, thanks. This will be of great help to me when i go get an hdtv *bookmarks*
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UnnDunn

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#24 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
I read only some of this, and i can say I still plan on getting a 1080p, basically what i got from your article is its meaningless to upgrade if you already have 720p/1080i, but 1080p is still betterda1on2
If you're going to gt a 1080p TV, more power to you. But don't let the fact that it's 1080p be the only deciding factor. Get a set with great picture quality and great features, and think of 1080p as a nice bonus to have.
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NickG1215

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#25 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
[QUOTE="da1on2"]I read only some of this, and i can say I still plan on getting a 1080p, basically what i got from your article is its meaningless to upgrade if you already have 720p/1080i, but 1080p is still betterwaynehead895
This is true. But as of now, it's limited to use.

exactly. since most games for sometime are going to be 720p native on the ps3, you'd be better off waiting a couple of years and then getting a 1080p tv if you really have to. the 720p/1080i tv will still probably perform better.
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ps3wins

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#26 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

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NickG1215

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#27 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

ps3wins
hahaha poor cow, don't even know what resolution your games run at. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/707/707540p1.html but i thought it was supposed to be the 1080p?
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UnnDunn

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#28 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

ps3wins
Here is someone who will not be passing this class today.
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ps3wins

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#29 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts
[QUOTE="ps3wins"]

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

NickG1215
hahaha poor cow, don't even know what resolution your games run at. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/707/707540p1.html but i thought it was supposed to be the 1080p?

D
[QUOTE="ps3wins"]

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

UnnDunn
Here is someone who will not be passing this class today.

Do you understand lem?Why is 720p the standard?PROGRESIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELLO DO YOU GET IT?
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NickG1215

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#30 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
[QUOTE="NickG1215"][QUOTE="ps3wins"]

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

ps3wins
hahaha poor cow, don't even know what resolution your games run at. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/707/707540p1.html but i thought it was supposed to be the 1080p?

D
[QUOTE="ps3wins"]

Poor lems-Hahahaha ms says 720p is better then 1080i and it is.BUT only because of PROGRESIVE LEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-K64BAGT9rls/popups/offerdetails.asp?offerid=15506

UnnDunn
Here is someone who will not be passing this class today.

Do you understand lem?Why is 720p the standard?PROGRESIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELLO DO YOU GET IT?

yeah. sony lied to you about 1080p. HELLO DO YOU GET IT? hahahahaha, i'd be pissed if i was you too
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UnnDunn

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#31 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
[QUOTE="ps3wins"] Do you understand lem?Why is 720p the standard?PROGRESIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELLO DO YOU GET IT?

Do you even know what "progressive" means? I doubt it, since you can't even spell the word.
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ps3wins

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#32 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts
Games will be 1080p give it time,starting 2k7.HELLO you dont get it-1080p THAT IS BWHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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ps3wins

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#33 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts
720p has been proven BETTER then 1080i at games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 720p = 921,600 pixels 1080p=2,073,600 =way more pixels, yet 720P LOOKS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MS thinks so. The PROGRESSIVE makes it happen!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1080p and PS3 will own.
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DonPerian

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#34 DonPerian
Member since 2005 • 3773 Posts
None of this really matters to me. I'm sticking with my 20 inch big tube with built in VCR. Wanna know why? Because A) my girls expensive  B) my cars expensive and C) even if i didnt have those 2, i wouldnt spend THAT much money on a tv when the difference is well for me atleast, not that noticable....
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ps3wins

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#35 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts
None of this really matters to me. I'm sticking with my 20 inch big tube with built in VCR. Wanna know why? Because A) my girls expensive  B) my cars expensive and C) even if i didnt have those 2, i wouldnt spend THAT much money on a tv when the difference is well for me atleast, not that noticable....DonPerian
Then NEVER watch a HD clip on your pc.
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DonPerian

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#36 DonPerian
Member since 2005 • 3773 Posts
[QUOTE="DonPerian"]None of this really matters to me. I'm sticking with my 20 inch big tube with built in VCR. Wanna know why? Because A) my girls expensive  B) my cars expensive and C) even if i didnt have those 2, i wouldnt spend THAT much money on a tv when the difference is well for me atleast, not that noticable....ps3wins
Then NEVER watch a HD clip on your pc.

alright. i wont. never have been interested in the whole graphics perspective of gaming....
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ps3wins

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#37 ps3wins
Member since 2006 • 1369 Posts
[QUOTE="ps3wins"][QUOTE="DonPerian"]None of this really matters to me. I'm sticking with my 20 inch big tube with built in VCR. Wanna know why? Because A) my girls expensive  B) my cars expensive and C) even if i didnt have those 2, i wouldnt spend THAT much money on a tv when the difference is well for me atleast, not that noticable....DonPerian
Then NEVER watch a HD clip on your pc.

alright. i wont. never have been interested in the whole graphics perspective of gaming....

And turn your monitor REZ down to SD.
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UnnDunn

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#38 UnnDunn
Member since 2002 • 3979 Posts
Notice how none of the cows have said anything to refute the claims made in this lesson. That's because everything I posted is irrefutable fact. :)
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nasos_33333

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#39 nasos_33333
Member since 2006 • 4530 Posts
Pay attention, class. There will be a test at the end of this class.

1080p does not matter. Here's why:

There are a number of facts that must be grasped first:
  1. All digital displays are progressive scan by nature.
  2. Virtually all film releases are shot at 24 frames per second and are progressive scan.
  3. 1080i delivers 30 frames per second, and 1080p delivers 60 frames per second.
  4. All HDTV broadcasts and virtually all games will be limited to 720p or 1080i for the foreseeable future.

Got all that? Good. Now lets go into the explanation.

Movies

Take a movie. It's 24 frames per second, progressive scan. This is the nature of how movies are shot on film today. Just about all movies are shot this way; the only exceptions are films where the director or producer wants to make an artistic statement. But if you saw it at your local multiplex, it's in 24fps progressive.

Now, let's put it onto a disc so we can sell it. First, we scan each individual frame of the movie, one by one, at a super high resolution (far higher than even 1080p.) This gives us a digital negative of the film, from which every digital version of the film will be made (this means the HD, DVD, On-demand, PPV, digital download, digital cable and PSP versions were all made from this one digital negative.) We'll only concern ourselves with the HD version for now.

Because it's HD, we'll take the digital negative and re-encode it in MPEG2, .h264 or VC1 at 1920x1080 and 24 frames per second to match the source material. And this is how it is on the disc when you get it from the store, whether it's Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

Once you put it in your disc player to view the film, a number of things happen.

1080i/1080p
Because the film is in 24fps, and 1080i is 30fps, every second the player has to come up with 6 additional frames to make up the gap. It does this through a process called 3:2 pulldown whereby 4 film frames (1/6th of a second of the film) are processed to create 5 video frames (1/6th of a second on your TV screen). Just exactly how this is done is outside the scope of this post (click here) but the important thing to realize is none of the picture data is lost during this process; just re-formatted.

Now, here's the crucial difference between 1080i and 1080p, as it relates to movies. With 1080i transmission, the player interlaces the frames during the pulldown and sends the interlaced frames to the TV set to be deinterlaced. With 1080p transmission, the player never interlaces the frames. Click to see how deinterlacing works. Regardless, you will get the exact same result. The only exception is if you have a crap TV that doesn't deinterlace properly, but chances are that TV won't support 1080p anyway.

So 1080p doesn't matter for movies.

Television

Television is a little different. Television is typically not shot on film, it's shot on video which is a vastly different technique. While movies are almost always shot at 24fps, standard-def NTSC TV is shot at 30fps interlaced, and HDTV is shot at whatever the production company decides, usually 1080i at 30fps, or 720p at 60fps, depending on the network. What, no 1080p? Nope. Why? Bandwidth.

The American ATSC standard gives each broadcaster 19.4Mbps to transmit video for each broadcast channel. Broadcasters are free to transmit as many streams as they want as long as the total bandwidth for all the channels does not exceed 19.4Mbps. Consider that one 1080i stream compressed using MPEG2 at decent quality takes up about 12Mbps. Now consider that an equivalent 1080p stream will take up twice that bandwidth. You can see why nobody does 1080p, and this situation will not change until a new encoding standard arrives, which won't happen for at least another decade.

So 1080p doesn't matter for television.

Games

Ah, now we come to the heart of the matter. Games. The reason why there will be very few 1080p games is a simple one: lack of memory. All graphics cards, including those found in Xbox 360 and PS3, have what's known as a frame-buffer. This is a chunk of memory set aside to store the color information of every pixel that makes up a frame that will be sent to the screen. Every single calculation the graphics card makes is designed to figure out how to fill up the frame-buffer so it can send the contents of the frame-buffer to the screen.

Time to break out the calculators, because we're doing some math.

A 720p frame is 1280 pixels wide by 720 pixels high. That means one 720p frame contains 921,600 pixels. Today's graphics cards use 32-bit color for the final frame. This means each pixel requires 32 bits - 4 bytes - to represent its color information. 921,600x4 = 3,686,400 bytes or a little over 3.5MB.

A 1080i frame is 1920 pixels wide by 540 high. That's 1,036,800 pixels, 4,147,200 bytes or a little less than 4MB.

Now, a 1080p frame. 1920 wide by 1080 high. 2,073,600 pixels, 8,294,400 bytes, a smidgen less than 8MB.

Ooh, but the 360 has 512MB, and the PS3 has 256MB for graphics. How is 8MB going to hurt? Oh, it hurts. Graphics cards will have several internal frame-buffers to handle different rendering passes, and each one requires memory. And the textures and mapping surfaces all have to fit within that same memory space. In the case of the 360, there's also audio and game data fighting for the same space (though the "space" is twice as big on Xbox 360.) That's why GTHD looked like crap, because in order to get it running in 1080p, they sacrificed most of the rendering passes and other effects.

This is why the vast, vast majority of Xbox 360 and PS3 next-gen games will stick to 1080i or 720p.

So 1080p doesn't matter for games.

In conclusion, 1080p does not matter. Period. If you think it does, you're just buying in to Sony's marketing hype.

Class dismissed.
UnnDunn

Not only that, but developers will fall for sony's hype, and render at 1080p sacrificing half of the game's graphics for something only a VERY few people will difference at. While xbox 360 will offer the standard 720p all the time, meaning games will be as beautifull as possible, which is the best news for me

And support high resolution through 1080i too, which is no more costy than 720p, so xbox 36 0will have as high res games with DOUBLE the graphics splendor

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Arsenal325

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#40 Arsenal325
Member since 2005 • 4899 Posts
[QUOTE="AntiType"]HD does not matter

Did you just say what i think you just said?
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XaosII

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#41 XaosII
Member since 2003 • 16705 Posts
1080p does matter.

I'm a PC gamer. And yes i get framerates higher than 60 at resolutions greater than TV's 1080i/p on most of my games.
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mc2k4

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#42 mc2k4
Member since 2004 • 2525 Posts
Talk is cheap, post some pictures of comparisons.
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NickG1215

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#43 NickG1215
Member since 2006 • 6641 Posts
[QUOTE="XaosII"]1080p does matter.

I'm a PC gamer. And yes i get framerates higher than 60 at resolutions greater than TV's 1080i/p on most of my games.

you also sit < 2 feet from the screen. it doesn't matter for console games since you don't sit close enough to notice it anyways
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S_o_G

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#44 S_o_G
Member since 2003 • 5415 Posts
A quick shot at ps3wins.
IT has all ready been CONFIRMED in I believe EGM or OFFICIAL US Playstation magazine I do believe Kaz harai makes the statement that there will be about as many 1080P games as there we're 1080I games on the xbox.

there we're about 5-10 truely capable 1080I games on the xbox:) so throughout the entire life cycle of the ps3 5-10 games will be in 1080P!!!!
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mc2k4

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#45 mc2k4
Member since 2004 • 2525 Posts
So, my PS3 will be costing $499 US dollars...
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HuusAsking

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#46 HuusAsking
Member since 2006 • 15270 Posts
[QUOTE="UnnDunn"][QUOTE="NickG1215"]also what is hi def satellite or cable tv? isn't it 720p?

It depends on the network. Most cable HD channels are 1080i, but ESPN HD and ESPN 2 HD are 720p, and I believe Fox Sports Net HD is 720p as well.

Sports channels prefer 720p for a reason. Progressive video (60fps noninterlaced) does not suffer from interlace tearing, especially when the action moves quickly, as happens often in sporting events. It's the tradeoff of using 1080i60/30.
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King_Reyes

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#47 King_Reyes
Member since 2006 • 362 Posts
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
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mc2k4

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#48 mc2k4
Member since 2004 • 2525 Posts
Until you post actual images of proof, your thread is only a theory.
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Teuf_

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#49 Teuf_
Member since 2004 • 30805 Posts
*****

Current-gen consoles simply don't have the power to render high-quality graphics at 1080p resolution. Besides, its not even worth it for devs to try to make their engines run at 1080p when such a small fraction of HDTV's actually support it.

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Magna01

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#50 Magna01
Member since 2004 • 4476 Posts
umm 360 doesn't have 512mb vram, it's just a UNIFIED RAM between system and vram. u fail