michael jordan is the greatest

oh? he isn't? then who is?

yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...yrag31

Steve Kerr probally deserved it. I remember once when SA was in town to play Phoenix who was standing behind me in line at Albertson's? Of all the people it was Steve Kerr, and he had the cohones to whine about me being in a cash only line paying with a debit card. Ever since that incident, I have always wanted to run into him again and kick the ever living crap out of him. But I always liked him when he played for the Bull's. You have to admit though, the 3 years they had Rodman they were probally one of the best teams ever assembled.

yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...yrag31

[QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...jimmygrace

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case. 

MJ was one of the greatest player to play the game. I don't think you can just place MJ on the top, just like that. Not even the NBA did that. They had the 50 Greatest Players. hoop_hard

I agree. He was the best SG but when it's not an individual sport, you can't really give someone the title of "greatest" because if he had to play at C he would have been rocked! One of the best ever but I just have a hard time saying he IS the best ever just because there are five positions in basketball.

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...Master_Live

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

wow...who cares what happens off-the court. All that matters is how you play on-the court. 

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...Master_Live

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

Jordan = Greatness

 The first part of his career MJ was exactly what the Jordan Jockers hate in Kobe. MJ was a great talent, but considered a ballhog, clashed with his coach(Doug Collins) who was fired, tanked a game when critized for shooting too much, didn't get along with some of his teammates...etc.

 MJ did'nt make anyone better, he had to wait until he got better players around him. Why didn't MJ make Stacey King, Sam Vincent and Granville better???  Kobe Can't turn Kwame Brown into Dennis Rodman, no more than MJ could turn Stacey King into Horace Grant. Kobe can't make Smush Parker shoot like Steve Kerr no more than MJ could make Sam Vincent shoot like John Paxson! Some players got better when MJ retired, they were scacrificing their game while playing with MJ.

Kobe came on to an established team that didn't need to play a rookie out of highschool, MJ had the green light on a bad team from day 1. Thats why he sored more, he shot more, more than anyone since Elgin Baylor. If Bird and others shot as much as MJ they would have scoring titles also.

Skill for skill MJ has the edge on defense over Kobe, but Kobe is a better scorer due to his long range ability. For minutes played their assist averages are about the same.   Enjoy Kobe  one of the best players you will ever see!

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/   Please check this out !!!!

The first part of his career MJ was exactly what the Jordan Jockers hate in Kobe. MJ was a great talent, but considered a ballhog, clashed with his coach(Doug Collins) who was fired, tanked a game when critized for shooting too much, didn't get along with some of his teammates...etc.

MJ did'nt make anyone better, he had to wait until he got better players around him. Why didn't MJ make Stacey King, Sam Vincent and Granville better??? Kobe Can't turn Kwame Brown into Dennis Rodman, no more than MJ could turn Stacey King into Horace Grant. Kobe can't make Smush Parker shoot like Steve Kerr no more than MJ could make Sam Vincent shoot like John Paxson! Some players got better when MJ retired, they were scacrificing their game while playing with MJ.

Kobe came on to an established team that didn't need to play a rookie out of highschool, MJ had the green light on a bad team from day 1. Thats why he sored more, he shot more, more than anyone since Elgin Baylor. If Bird and others shot as much as MJ they would have scoring titles also.

Skill for skill MJ has the edge on defense over Kobe, but Kobe is a better scorer due to his long range ability. For minutes played their assist averages are about the same. Enjoy Kobe one of the best players you will ever see!

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/ Please check this out !!!!

mont13

yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...yrag31

kobe bryant is the best player alive and will become the greatest player before he retires...Scuervo

"Long range ability does not make a player "better". Jordan had about the best mid range jump shot EVER."

I didn't say being a better long range shooter makes Kobe a better all-round player than MJ.  I said Kobe is a better "scorer"..... because his long range ability gives him an edge over MJ as far as scoring goes. They both can get to the basket and have great mid-range shots. 

Comparing skill for skill is the only way to compare them, all other accomplishmenst are based on quality of teammates. If people can say defense is what makes MJ better its only fair to point out where Kobe is better than MJ skill-wise.

Out of several points I made why pick that small point to comment on, please comment on my OTHER points in my last post,..PLEASE ! 

No, he did not puch them. He threw the ball at his (S. Kerr) face for continously messing up the plays they ran in practice. [QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...It_is_I

 Yes MJ did punch Kerr, look it up. Early on MJ was a ballhog, clashed with coach and teammates, tanked a game...etc.

 As mentioned there is no single greatest player of all time, just the latest, like it or not thats Kobe Bryant. Enjoy his B'ball talent without comparing him to MJ

No, he did not puch them. He threw the ball at his (S. Kerr) face for continously messing up the plays they ran in practice. [QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...It_is_I

 Yes MJ did punch Kerr, look it up. Early on MJ was a ballhog, clashed with coach and teammates, tanked a game...etc.

 As mentioned there is no single greatest player of all time, just the latest, like it or not thats Kobe Bryant. Enjoy his B'ball talent without comparing him to MJ

yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...yrag31

He was actually a great teamate his leadership is why they won six championships. This story is true but you make it sound like a bad thing. Michael didn't cheap shot him they got into a fair fight. Plus theirs fights all the time it's no big deal look at NFL training camp or the NHL they fight all the time but they don't hold anything against each other. He was obvoiusly a good enough teamate to make up with both of them right?

First of all, HE DID NOT Punch Kerr. Re-watch the Bulls Championship tapes again (I think it was the one with the 96 team). Second, Jordan is the greatest of all time because he transcended through generations. He went through the old school (Magic, Bird, Detroit Pistons, Cavs [when they were decent]) and new school (Shaq, Kobe [remember the night when he lit Kobe's A$$ up for 30+, you probably do not], Motumbo, Ewing, Allen, Kemp, Malone and Stockton twice. Kobe still has a long long long road to prove himself. Scoring is one thing, but like Tex Winter said, he has no clue on how to play defense. Michael was the complete package. Kobe is the black hole player in the NBA. You can pass the ball to him, but it is definitely not coming back out.

You see my friend(s), I recognize Kobe's game for what it is, but oh how soon we forget that number 23's legacy will not and cannot be touched. I don't care how many 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 plus points you score a night.  Michael commanded respect. Kobe is still searching for what it is. Stevie Wonder can see that.  

One more thing that Kobe does not have that Michael did was the ability to create fear and frustration in his opponents at will!

**Side Note: I willing to go out on a limb here and say that the current Bulls will get to the NBA Finals before Kobe does....

[QUOTE="It_is_I"]No, he did not puch them. He threw the ball at his (S. Kerr) face for continously messing up the plays they ran in practice. [QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...mont13

 Yes MJ did punch Kerr, look it up. Early on MJ was a ballhog, clashed with coach and teammates, tanked a game...etc.

 As mentioned there is no single greatest player of all time, just the latest, like it or not thats Kobe Bryant. Enjoy his B'ball talent without comparing him to MJ

 

One more thing that Kobe does not have that Michael did was the ability to create fear and frustration in his opponents at will!

**Side Note: I willing to go out on a limb here and say that the current Bulls will get to the NBA Finals before Kobe does....

It_is_I

lol kobe just doesn't create fear in his defenders he creates it in the coaches as well, when the opposing coach has to go through 4 different defenders to try and stop Kobe I think you develop some fear and frustration

**Side Note: If the Bulls keep having Ben Gordon taking their final shots for them in close games then they're in trouble in the playoffs

Put it down crack head, put it down... The only fear Kobe can create is in young girls in Eagle, Colorado! LOL!!

Kobe has similar game to Jordan's but he has no where near the same amount of respect and everyone knows it...and he STILL WILL NOT get MVP! LOL!

[QUOTE="It_is_I"]

 

One more thing that Kobe does not have that Michael did was the ability to create fear and frustration in his opponents at will!

**Side Note: I willing to go out on a limb here and say that the current Bulls will get to the NBA Finals before Kobe does....

andyboiii

lol kobe just doesn't create fear in his defenders he creates it in the coaches as well, when the opposing coach has to go through 4 different defenders to try and stop Kobe I think you develop some fear and frustration

**Side Note: If the Bulls keep having Ben Gordon taking their final shots for them in close games then they're in trouble in the playoffs

Put it down crack head, put it down... The only fear Kobe can create is in young girls in Eagle, Colorado! LOL!!

Kobe has similar game to Jordan's but he has no where near the same amount of respect and everyone knows it...and he STILL WILL NOT get MVP! LOL!

It_is_I

Kobe doesn't have any respect because media hates him for the rape case that was dropped and never proven that kobe actually raped a girl. Media is Nash and Nowitziki's *****.

 haha I dont care if Kobe gets MVP:lol: Im not bias I know the guys with one of the best records will get it, Nash or Nowitzki.  

Put it down crack head, put it down... The only fear Kobe can create is in young girls in Eagle, Colorado! LOL!!

Kobe has similar game to Jordan's but he has no where near the same amount of respect and everyone knows it...and he STILL WILL NOT get MVP! LOL!

 

 

[QUOTE="andyboiii"][QUOTE="It_is_I"]

 

One more thing that Kobe does not have that Michael did was the ability to create fear and frustration in his opponents at will!

**Side Note: I willing to go out on a limb here and say that the current Bulls will get to the NBA Finals before Kobe does....

It_is_I

lol kobe just doesn't create fear in his defenders he creates it in the coaches as well, when the opposing coach has to go through 4 different defenders to try and stop Kobe I think you develop some fear and frustration

**Side Note: If the Bulls keep having Ben Gordon taking their final shots for them in close games then they're in trouble in the playoffs

 The first part of his career MJ was exactly what the Jordan Jockers hate in Kobe. MJ was a great talent, but considered a ballhog, clashed with his coach(Doug Collins) who was fired, tanked a game when critized for shooting too much, didn't get along with some of his teammates...etc.

 MJ did'nt make anyone better, he had to wait until he got better players around him. Why didn't MJ make Stacey King, Sam Vincent and Granville better???  Kobe Can't turn Kwame Brown into Dennis Rodman, no more than MJ could turn Stacey King into Horace Grant. Kobe can't make Smush Parker shoot like Steve Kerr no more than MJ could make Sam Vincent shoot like John Paxson! Some players got better when MJ retired, they were scacrificing their game while playing with MJ.

Kobe came on to an established team that didn't need to play a rookie out of highschool, MJ had the green light on a bad team from day 1. Thats why he sored more, he shot more, more than anyone since Elgin Baylor. If Bird and others shot as much as MJ they would have scoring titles also.

Skill for skill MJ has the edge on defense over Kobe, but Kobe is a better scorer due to his long range ability. For minutes played their assist averages are about the same.   Enjoy Kobe  one of the best players you will ever see!

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/   Please check this out !!!!

mont13

1) Hey " It is I"...MJ did punch Steve kerr in a fight(fair or not) it happened in practice!

2)MJ did not go through all generations.....He didn't get past the Celtics and Lakers until their teams were in the decline. The Pistons went through the MJ Bulls for 2 straight rings. None of the teams the Bulls beat for rings including Utah) were better than the Bird Celtics, Magic Lakers or Dr.J 76'ers(with M. Malone, Cheeks, Toney, B. Jones..etc). MJ's/Bulls peaked at the time the other great teams declined.

By the way remember when Kobe lit MJ up for some ridiculous point total..... by half time, and the win, probably not. 

3) "Kobe is a black hole player"   What! Kobe averages 5.4 assists a game(good for a 2 guard) on a crappy team. An assist is a 2 man thing, the other player has to make the shot. Kobe has Kwame"fumble fingers" Brown to pass to, he has no Kerr/Paxson yet he still gets 5.4 assists per game (and also chips in 5.6 rbs, also good for a 2 guard). The Kobe is a ball-hog argument does not hold up. For the record MJ career assist = 5.3 which is only less than 1 more than Kobes career so far, even with the limited minutes Kobe played early on.

4) "Kobe has no clue how to play defense" .....I guess thats why he's been voted to the all-defense teams several times.

5) "Kobe doesn't create fear/frustration in his opponents" OMG!! Kobe has been called the best and most feared player in the game by other coaches, players and analysts, period!

Its ok to love/like MJ or consider him the best, but please don't act like he came into the NBA a great defender, great leader, winning rings and playing in harmony with his teammates and coach from day 1. IT DID NOT HAPPEN LIKE THAT!

Truth: MJ came into the NBA with the biggest ego, selfish, gunning, wanting to prove himself, alienated some teammates, and coach(who got fired), was not a good leader, was not known for defense, shot a lot, thus scored a lot, but was frustrated by more seasoned and complete TEAMS. Until those teams declined and MJ finally got a good team of complimentary players around him and went on a tear winning 6 rings with one of the best all-round players ever (Scottie Pippen), one of the better P forwards(Horace Grant), 2 of the best sharp shooters(Kerr/Paxson), one of the best rebounders/defenders/garbage men ever(D. Rodman), a decent center (B. Cartwright), great coach, unigue system (triangle)...etc. They all clicked as a team, result 6 rings. MJ did not do that with Sam Vincent, Stacey King, Granville Waiters...etc. He had to wait, like kobe does until the right mix of players are acquired. Sorry to be so long but it takes that to dispel the myths about MJ, a very great player nonetheless, maybe the best, impossible to say.

Anyone who has a coach like Phil Jackson and players around him like Pippen, Rodman, and Kukoc is gonna be able to do what MJ did but I think MJ is a overrated player.I think Bill Russell was a better player, I'd also say Chaimberlin was a more dominant player, and even a guy like Tim Duncan even though the Spurs may be a boring team to watch I think hes a better player who knows how to help his team win.jimmygrace

ohh yeah MJ didn't help his team win?LMAO

[QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...SilverArmor82

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

yeah, but Mj didn't rape someone LOL that rapist.no matter who he slept with he didn't do a bad thing like beng accused of an rAPE.

 The first part of his career MJ was exactly what the Jordan Jockers hate in Kobe. MJ was a great talent, but considered a ballhog, clashed with his coach(Doug Collins) who was fired, tanked a game when critized for shooting too much, didn't get along with some of his teammates...etc.

 MJ did'nt make anyone better, he had to wait until he got better players around him. Why didn't MJ make Stacey King, Sam Vincent and Granville better???  Kobe Can't turn Kwame Brown into Dennis Rodman, no more than MJ could turn Stacey King into Horace Grant. Kobe can't make Smush Parker shoot like Steve Kerr no more than MJ could make Sam Vincent shoot like John Paxson! Some players got better when MJ retired, they were scacrificing their game while playing with MJ.

Kobe came on to an established team that didn't need to play a rookie out of highschool, MJ had the green light on a bad team from day 1. Thats why he sored more, he shot more, more than anyone since Elgin Baylor. If Bird and others shot as much as MJ they would have scoring titles also.

Skill for skill MJ has the edge on defense over Kobe, but Kobe is a better scorer due to his long range ability. For minutes played their assist averages are about the same.   Enjoy Kobe  one of the best players you will ever see!

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/   Please check this out !!!!

mont13

Kobe isn't the better scorer.MJ is like 3rd all-time in scoring WTH are u talking about better scorer?MJ could of drop 80 pts in the 90s, but he had to share the ball too much with his other good players.MJ averages 5.3APG and kobe averages 4.5APG.Mj has a better career shooting percentage and has the second most steals ever.The only reason he isn't first all-time in steals because of the years he missed.He averged more steals then stockton, but he played less gms

[QUOTE="SilverArmor82"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...jujutheking

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

yeah, but Mj didn't rape someone LOL that rapist.no matter who he slept with he didn't do a bad thing that would beng accused of an rAPE.

we can go all day with this along with Jordans gambling problems but why are we discussing off court issues when that has nothing to do with a players greatness on the court

[QUOTE="jujutheking"][QUOTE="SilverArmor82"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...andyboiii

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

yeah, but Mj didn't rape someone LOL that rapist.no matter who he slept with he didn't do a bad thing that would beng accused of an rAPE.

we can go all day with this along with Jordans gambling problems but why are we discussing off court issues when that has nothing to do with a players greatness on the court

Whho cares about gambling?He raped someone and look at my post above this one where i talked about player skills.

[QUOTE="andyboiii"][QUOTE="jujutheking"][QUOTE="SilverArmor82"][QUOTE="Master_Live"]

[QUOTE="jimmygrace"][QUOTE="yrag31"]yeah but worst teamate ever did you know he punched Steve Kerr and Will Perdue in their practice back then...jujutheking

Yeah except Kobe rape case for which at least we know he cheated on his wife, being the main reason for the L.A. Lakers break up and snitching out on Shaq while being question by police for the rape case.

yeah, but Mj didn't rape someone LOL that rapist.no matter who he slept with he didn't do a bad thing that would beng accused of an rAPE.

we can go all day with this along with Jordans gambling problems but why are we discussing off court issues when that has nothing to do with a players greatness on the court

Whho cares about gambling?He raped someone and look at my post above this one where i talked about player skills.

 yea I saw your post, I didn't quote you I quoted the other guy talkin about all the off court stuff

"Kobe isn't the better scorer.MJ is like 3rd all-time in scoring WTH are u talking about better scorer?MJ could of drop 80 pts in the 90s, but he had to share the ball too much with his other good players.MJ averages 5.3APG and kobe averages 4.5APG.Mj has a better career shooting percentage and has the second most steals ever.The only reason he isn't first all-time in steals because of the years he missed.He averged more steals then stockton, but he played less gms"

MJ's top 4 scoring games came in over time, one of those was in double O.T.:

69 pts on 37 fga's in ot,  64pts on 49 fga's in ot,  63 pts on 41 fga's in 2 0t's , 61pt's on 39 fga's in ot, 2 were in 1986/87 when he didn't have to "share the ball". Trust me, if MJ could have scored 81 he would have, he couldn't,  he didn't have the range on his J like Kobe.  Kobe: 81 points on 46 shots in regulation, time doesn't permit me to list Kobe's other big games in reglation, or Kobe's 40 point averages for a month, done 2 or 3 times, I believe the only player to do that. Didn't Kobe get 52 in a half, 62 in 3 quaters against Dallas???? Kobe is a BAD MAN and a better scorer than MJ. Give him that. 

The only reason MJ's fga is higher is Kobe shoots many more long range shots than MJ. L.A did not have to play a rookie out of highschool on the established team they had. So Kobe only played 14mins and 20mins per game his 1st 2 years so of course his assist average is lower. If you start at Kobe's 3rd year when he got starters minutes Kobe and MJ are very comparable in assists, both 5+, even dopping MJ 2nd yr when he was hurt. And Kobe is not even done yet, as his team matures he will get more assists.   (5.3assists to 4.5assists,  wow ! MJ is smoking Kobe in assists!!! huh? Even with sharpshooters on his team MJ only averaged .8 more assists than Kobe! )

I already gave MJ the edge on defense, but face it MJ can't stroke it like Kobe!!!!!  (Please don't throw MJ 3pt % at me, I know it, but he shot no where near the number of 3's Kobe does. Kobe is a threat from much further out tha nMJ. That's why MJ shrugged when he hit some on Portland that series, even he couldn't believe it.)

[QUOTE="mont13"]

The first part of his career MJ was exactly what the Jordan Jockers hate in Kobe. MJ was a great talent, but considered a ballhog, clashed with his coach(Doug Collins) who was fired, tanked a game when critized for shooting too much, didn't get along with some of his teammates...etc.

MJ did'nt make anyone better, he had to wait until he got better players around him. Why didn't MJ make Stacey King, Sam Vincent and Granville better??? Kobe Can't turn Kwame Brown into Dennis Rodman, no more than MJ could turn Stacey King into Horace Grant. Kobe can't make Smush Parker shoot like Steve Kerr no more than MJ could make Sam Vincent shoot like John Paxson! Some players got better when MJ retired, they were scacrificing their game while playing with MJ.

Kobe came on to an established team that didn't need to play a rookie out of highschool, MJ had the green light on a bad team from day 1. Thats why he sored more, he shot more, more than anyone since Elgin Baylor. If Bird and others shot as much as MJ they would have scoring titles also.

Skill for skill MJ has the edge on defense over Kobe, but Kobe is a better scorer due to his long range ability. For minutes played their assist averages are about the same. Enjoy Kobe one of the best players you will ever see!

http://airjudden2.tripod.com/jordan/ Please check this out !!!!

jujutheking

Kobe isn't the better scorer.MJ is like 3rd all-time in scoring WTH are u talking about better scorer?MJ could of drop 80 pts in the 90s, but he had to share the ball too much with his other good players.MJ averages 5.3APG and kobe averages 4.5APG.Mj has a better career shooting percentage and has the second most steals ever.The only reason he isn't first all-time in steals because of the years he missed.He averged more steals then stockton, but he played less gms

I will give Kobe the edge as a scorer because he's more atheletic and has a longer range than MJ. They are both have incredible quickness, reaction, and jumping ability. In terms of shooting the ball, Kobe has the little edge because he can shoot the three, but then again, MJ's mid-jump shot at his best was incredible and maybe better than kobe's mid J. They are also both good post players although MJ was able to post-up more than Kobe since Kobe had Shaq on his team and didn't need to post up during his earlier years. In terms of APG, the difference is infintesmial - .8 wow... They are both good passers. Steals don't necessary equal better defender. Look at Iverson, he can get all the steals he wants, he's not a lock-down defense. Of course, however, MJ is one of the best primeter defense during his time just like Kobe is today. MJ was the better defender but not by much. Kobe will surpass MJ and maybe Kareem when he retires 8 to 10 years later. 

I already gave MJ the edge on defense, but face it MJ can't stroke it like Kobe!!!!! (Please don't throw MJ 3pt % at me, I know it, but he shot no where near the number of 3's Kobe does. Kobe is a threat from much further out tha nMJ. That's why MJ shrugged when he hit some on Portland that series, even he couldn't believe it.)

mont13

It's arguable that MJ shoots better mid Js than Kobe, but it's true that Kobe is the better three-point shooter.