What are your thoughts on death penalty?

Just read CNN article where florida is seeking death penalty on that school shooter. I personally think it doesn't work and should be abolished.

I understand some people's desire for vengeance and retribution, but I dont think that helps. Does nothing to prevent crime and likely causes people to value life less and commit more crime.

No, especially the U.S. where someone sits on death row for decades. You're executing a different person at that point.

Waste of time and money, doesn’t actually deter crime, innocents slip through the cracks and get killed, and giving the state power to execute their own citizens is the definition of Big Scary Government.

What is there to like about the death penalty?

There is literally no good reason to continue it.

There are no positives to it. It's pure blood lust and nothing else.

It's expensive due to the lengthy appeals process that can drag on for decades. It reduces us as a society to the level of killers. Our justice system is not perfect, and people have been wrongfully convicted before. I have no doubt that we've executed innocent people in some cases. It doesn't seem to act as any kind of deterrent.

Life in prison without parole accomplishes the same thing in a cleaner fashion. It eliminates the danger to society without society having to kill anyone.

Against it. Too many innocent people have been put to death and later exonerated due to DNA evidence. It’s also been proven that life in prison is cheaper than the death penalty.

I just don’t see an upside other than the family of the victim getting to see the accused die, and that’s not justice. It’s vengeance.

Nothing?

I am 100% for the death penalty as opposed to them rotting in some jail cell and using up tax payer money. I also think that rapists should be either castrated or put to death.

@sonicare: It was a rhetorical question. :P

How do you reconcile this position with the fact that a prisoner on death row is almost 2x as expensive as someone on life in prison? Are you ever worried about someone innocent being put to death?

Well, that is exactly my point- prisoners on death row are more expensive than people that are serving life sentences, but people on death row can sometimes be on death row for several years, even decades. Furthermore, when I am talking about killing or castrating people, I think we need to be damn sure that they are guilty of their crimes. If you take another person's life, the consequence is that you lose your own. If you rape someone then you get castrated... talk about giving rapists and murderers an incentive not to rape and murder.

Guess what, they actually use more tax payer money rotting in jail for decades on death row than they do if you just sentence them to life without parole. That's because there's an appeals process. We aren't some dictatorship that just summarily executes people. There's a long process to make absolutely sure that they weren't unfairly tried or sentenced.

Castrating or killing rapists will mean more dead rape victims. Rapists will just kill them so there isn't a witness.

Pretty much against it.

With that said, if limited to cases where there is no doubt that person x committed said crime, and it is for the most extreme cases. Terrorists on the other hand. Life in jail without parole.

That all sounds well and good in theory but in practice doesn't work out that way. The justice system is inherently flawed because it is made by humans and people are "damn sure" all the time yet innocents still get executed. A final punishment like that is incompatible with the inherently flawed justice system where the state is ordered to get a conviction no matter what happens. Additionally, it's been proven that the death penalty doesn't actually deter crimes from happening.

Am against it.

Help? The whole idea about the criminal justice system and the death penalty is not to help the criminals, It´s to deter people and also serve as justice so people don´t feel they need to take matters into their own hands.

But I am for the DP and this school shooter in Florida should most certainly get it.

Not surprised you're for the Death Penalty.

The deterrent thing rarely works out in reality. I believe in rehabilitation. If a prisoner will one day reenter society, the focus should be on making them a safe, productive member. If they can never reenter society like the school shooter in this case, then life without parole accomplishes the same thing as the death penalty. It removes the danger to society. We don't need to reduce ourselves to the level of killers. As a society we should be better than the criminals that we incarcerate.

Life without parole does not accomplish the same thing.

This kid is so far gone that he will always be a danger to society and after what he did, leaving him alive will not be justice to the victims and families left behind.

Top ****ing Kek if you think that the idea of going to prison for life or the death penalty doesn't prevent crime in "reality". Of course we'd rather "rehab" people to not be criminals but we already have overcrowded prisons. That's why there are already programs that do this. It's simply not worth the risk in the case of the school shooter. I don't care how altruistic you expect society to be, it simply isn't our burden.

Edit: Nevermind, I misinterpreted your position.

How is he a danger to society when he's locked up and not out in society? Imprisoning him already removes him from society. Why do we need to kill him? Not killing him proves we are better than him. And never being free again is arguably a harsher punishment than dying. He's left to think about what he's done forever. If he has any shred of a conscience it will eat away at him forever. Even if he has no conscience he gets to live the rest of his life in a tiny cell with no freedom. Killing him lets him off easy.

Seriously, if you gave me the choice between death and life in prison, I would pick death.

He could escape or some liberal agenda in a few decades could advocate for clemency and get him released.

Considering the prisons today, life in prison is a blessing for a guy like this and just think about the fan mail and marriage proposals he will get, you really want him to become a local celebrity. And someone like this has no conscience or he would have killed himself.

So the Death penalty is the only way.

What do you mean considering the prisons today? The US has some of the harshest prisons in the developed world.

@bigfootpart2: which still isn't harsh enough damn it!

The walls need to be permanently on fire, the guards are all lions, and the only food is old turkey twislers and nails! Those are the prisons we need!

If America prisons are the harshest in the world, I bet you never been made aware of prisons in places like Thailand, Brazil, Mexico etc....

American prisons are holiday camps.

Compared to most of the developed world, our prisons are not so great. I'd rather our government focus on rehabilitation and reform than simply just vengeance. For reasons that both parties can agree on. It makes no sense to have a huge prison population - you are paying for their subsistence.

*sigh* of course Florida is going for the death penalty. For a state with water on three sides and a bunch of retirees, they sure are bloodthirsty.

Anyway, my opinion is that the death penalty is a cowardly path for vengeful pussies, with the exception of immediate friends and family (I can totally understand wanting to kill someone that raped and murdered your ten year old daughter).

Honestly the best thing to do is put the guy in a cell for 23 hours a day and let him think about what he did for, idunno, the rest of his life.

Also, cliche argument, but the cost of death row is pretty crazy. And this kid is what? 19? He has decades of appeals to go through before he is executed, that is going to cost hundreds of thousands if not millions (due to high profile) of dollars.

I wouldn't say that, I think they fall somewhere in the middle. I mean look at prisons in West and North Europe...those are holiday camps.

Ya, that cell looks like a hotel, not a prison cell.

But considering what a prison should be like, America´s are too nice and liberal-minded.

By liberal minded you mean humane.

Not really.

I spent a night in a cell like this and it was miserable. I've learned to appreciate how shitty being imprisoned long term must be.

That cell looks nicer than some dorm rooms.

But not everyone is like you and actually feel bad. Most Criminals see that as a warm bed and 3 square meals a day. And most probably live in flats and houses that are far worse than that cell.

I agree with you- our justice system is extremely flawed and needs to be revamped. I almost think that eye witness testimonies, which have attributed to a lot of people getting wrongfully accused, need to be severely diminished. If there are multiple eye witness accounts that correlate with each other that is one thing, but generally eye witness accounts or statements have proven to be incredibly unreliable. I think we need to rely on concrete evidence such as DNA, finger prints, security footage etc, but that is just my opinion. Regardless, if you kill someone in our society you should always be punished by death if proven guilty. If you rape someone and you are proven guilty (with concrete evidence), you should be castrated.

Its one of the very few subjects in which I have flipped with age from being against to being for in some cases.

it has to be extreme though, like Hitler level extreme or a real threat to the world even if contained in prison kind of thing

@tryit: I mean, what is more extreme than murder and rape?

being Hitler is.

the hint is in what I said

i'd be curious to see stats on murder rates of states that do have the death penalty vs. those who do not.

is there any difference to show the dp as a successful deterrent?

EDIT: found this.

from https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterrence-states-without-death-penalty-have-had-consistently-lower-murder-rates

as I heard years ago 'a drug dealer who always has his life at risk from other drug dealers risk of dying is not really a deterrent'

I dont know if that is true or not but what I do know is that the general philosophy of looking at prisons and capital punishment as a deterrent I think is wrong, useless and likely doesn't even work.

Prisons should be used simple as containment of those who are dangerous to the community and a effort at rehabilitation.

my view on that has never changed.

my view on death penalty however has changed somewhat but still not as a method of retribution or deterring.

DNA evidence and finger prints aren't as concrete as you may think. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/a-reasonable-doubt/480747/

I just can't reconcile the bolded. If you agree with me that the system is extremely flawed, I don't understand how you can also advocate having a permanent punishment like death to be acceptable. There is just way too much at stake if an innocent person gets put to the chair.

Another thing I wonder is: you're a conservative, right? Conservatives go after Big Government all the time and giving the state power to literally execute its citizens is as Big Government as it gets. How can that be acceptable to you over say, the government providing healthcare or shelter?

So because some eyewitnesses aren't good witnesses you want to let criminals walk even with an eyewitness to the crime? That's beyond stupid.

@LJS9502_basic: I am not saying that eye witness testimonies are completely invalid, but many of them are and they are directly responsible for putting innocent people behind bars or even worse. I am not sure how to exactly address the issue, but I do know that something needs to change. I mean, there is a reason why we have a statute of limitations in most states.

So, the main argument from the liberal side is that the death penalty should be abolished because it is not only a cruel and unusual punishment, but it is barbaric. It is true that us conservatives believe in a limited government where the states should have power, but the main reason why us conservatives are pro death penalty is because we believe that the punishment should fit the crime. If you kill someone in the United States then your punishment should be death. Obviously the castration of rapists is controversial, but I still believe that both punishments are absolutely justified. Again, our justice system is flawed, so it definitely needs to be fixed or revamped because if I am talking about killing or castrating people then we better be damn sure that they are guilty.

that is not very accurate actually.

many liberals believe this because they feel its not effective in its stated goal of deterrence and retribution and in addition to that barabaric.

that is more accurate

@comp_atkins: That graph is not that good.

Also, remember that most non-dp states are blue.

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. It only makes sense from some sort of a warped sense of justice standpoint, really. The government should separate dangerous people from society. It really shouldn't have any responsibility beyond that.

what does the political tenancy of the state have to do with it? people in blue states are less murderous?

Yep, and also more populated and has a less income disparity

Evidence clearly shows it is not a deterrent. It doesn't work. Scratch that argument. But more importantly, I think it degrades the society that uses it. I'd almost suspect, that having the death penalty may actually increase the rate of murder in a country. If a society places no value on life, why should an individual? I believe that we should strive to be better than criminals as opposed to simply operating on a similar plane.

The fact that you, a hardcore liberal doesn't even know what the true liberal stance on the death penalty is just proves your ignorance. I know you are a troll because you are essentially the leftist version of Alex Jones, but please get your facts straight. Liberals NEVER talk in terms of efficiency, they talk in terms of morality which is why their stance on the death penalty is that it is not only cruel and unusual, but barbaric.

If you actually argued with facts as opposed to feelings, people would take you seriously, but right now you are just the crazy person in the room who is just spewing nonsense.

if you say so,

but its not about just barabaric its about it not working for the goal of deterrence.

that is what I hear from the left most of the time