To punish Mexico, Trump rocks American stocks, raises prices on American consumers

So many lies in this thread lol btw I'm a zillionaire and post on these forums from my yacht which I can afford by hiring illegals at my company. XD

Anyways, Trump might be a tard, but so are a lot of these fools acting like he's gonna destroy the country with his tarriffs.

Another undocumented opinion I see.

Trump has done more against the immigrants than the last 5 presidents combined, the problem is that in these social media times, the Left is destroying all the things that have been done because the golddiggers from South know that Trump will only be president a short time and the Democrats are counting on the Hispanics to vote them into office.

@Jacanuk: yeah. It's the scary left, and Obama's fault. More stupid opinions with no sources to back up your claims.

Immigration is worse now than when Obama was president. Border crossings are at an eleven year high.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/border-crossing-increase.html

Let's say Trump's tarrifs work and it destroys Mexico's economy and their entire country is out of work.

Where are mexicans going to go to find work?

@mattbbpl: Mine is mostly out of boredom. System wars can be fun at times though.

"how much?" is a perfectly rational question to ask. You'd be stupid NOT to ask the question and merely act off pure emotion ( brown man bad ). What kind of an idiot would enact policies without first taking into account those costs, let alone the president. Shit, you don't even take your car to get repaired without knowing if the repairs cost more than your car is even worth...

I struggle to understand folks on the right and their motivations. The same people who clamor that they don't want government interference, regulation, etc.. that the market should be free, that the US is a meritocracy etc.. are the SAME people saying we need the government to set prices and protect the jobs of people who by their lack of merit can't compete in the job market. fucking pick one.

@comp_atkins: We've set up a situation in we've declared that free trade boosts the economy and aggregate wealth (which is accurate) but that we can't or shouldn't ensure that increase in wealth is widely experienced. How can we be surprised that the losers in that arrangement are lashing out at those who created it as well as the arrangement itself?

So your response is pretty much "Bla bla bla right bla bla bla bad"?

No answer to the cost both in missed tax from wages and the lost money or the cost to actual Americans who cannot find a job because they are being undercut by illegals who will work for scraps.

And here I thought you actually had some kind of solution to the illegals other than just allow more to come in and ruin the free market and America legal americans built.

Actually, Obama deported more illegals than any other president before him.

So no it´s not Obama´s fault per say, he did overrule democracy and use an executive order to override the Congress to enable some illegals to stay.

Also again the reason why immigration especially illegal is worse now than before, is because TDS has gotten a hold in America and these illegals from South America and Mexico are not stupid and they follow the political climate , so when public opinion and the left are banging on about allowing all illegals currently in the US an easy pass to legal status, you will, of course, see a response especially when you have situations like in Venezuela.

And Mexicans can find work in Mexico where they have legal status, If they are legally in the US then, of course, they have every right to find work here, and in a free world I can feel that they should learn English but they are free to do what they want and if they can get hired without, well all power to them

@Jacanuk: yeah, the scary leftist are making more people cross the border than in the past eleven years.

How is it "ruining the free market" when it would be exactly how a free market functions? Supply of labor drives down the cost for that labor.

If you want to restrict that market, just say so. I promise Grover Norquist won't hunt you down and revoke your GOP man-card.

How? by undercutting the supply/demand and by taking advantage of people who would work for peanuts and a handshake if it meant they could stay in the US.

And before you say that is the "free market" try not to go overboard with dumb extremes because no one means an absolute uncontrolled "law of the jungle" free market.

Nice troll post there sNuckiiii

Yes

They need to be changed. They worked very well until they were changed in 1965. Senator Kennedy led the charge to change them. What about the illegal aliens that just live off of the government.

@Kadin_Kai I work in the construction business and it is true, illegal immigration hurts the industry and drags down wages. Not all companies partake in paying illegals under the table but many do, makes it hard to compete when your paying your crews what they should make for that type of work and your competition is paying people under the table at half the wage, many of these illegals then send this money back to family south of the border where its worth more than twice as much.

These tariffs wouldn't have happened if dems would let Trump secure the border. He's taking another route since dems won't budge on the border. Dems were even in favor of border security before trump won..

The fact that liberals are trying to use the fact that illegal immigration is at its worst under trump is laughable, its the dems that block everything he tries to do on the border. Not one democrat has a good idea on how to secure the border, trump was the first one to push illegal immigration as a central part of his campaign. They aren't fighting him on it because he's wrong, they are fighting him because if he actually improves the immigration crysis he looks good. They would let in millions of illegals if it makes trump look bad.

ok. so we ARE talking about restrictions.

just want to make sure we're all on the same page.

so now it is simply a matter of WHAT restrictions you want to place on the market.

how much should the government allow an unskilled laborer to make?

@comp_atkins: its not about paying unskilled laborers, illegal aliens shouldnt make anything, they shouldnt be allowed to work if they dont even have a green card/work visa, they shouldnt even be living in the country at that point.

Why are you talking about a free market with illegal aliens?

Do you know why we have laws? or know why we have borders?

Because unless you are not sure about those, I am not sure why you are talking about restrictions because of course, we have restrictions on illegals.

In your experience, are most of these illegal immigrants skilled or unskilled workers? If they are unskilled, the quality of the work should hopefully work as bad pr for the company.

@horgen: its a mixed bag, but from what I can tell most of the illegal immigrants are not skilled, immigrants with work visas and greencards are usually much better and actually have experiance. We have several immigrants with visas that do great work as in house guys with us. But we dont hire illegals ,they arent legal or have paper work so you cant do workers comp forms they dont have a social, the only people willing to hire them are shady subs. Illegals usually are just hired hands by a sub contractor. Not for complicated work, manly for demo, cement mixing, more basic shit, dig these footers, haul materials, most illegals are hardly carpenters, usually if a sub is paying illegals its for the grunt work and if not grunt work the sub is there telling them exactly what to do and half the time they still find a way to **** it up.

Usually its a legal immigrant with a work visa, paying illegals under him to run a crew as a sub contractor. This way they can get work from actual class A contractors that have too much buisness to handle. while not having to be on paper. The legal guy (sub contractor paying illegals) saves money on labor, pays no taxes on employees, doesnt have to provide benefits and because hes a sub and not in house, there is no hourly wage, they get paid per job. Guys work much faster this way. This is also why the work done is usually sloppy by bad subs.

Contractors that use them arent responsible for them using illegals, because they hired a sub that was legal, they dont have control over who the sub is using as his crew.

When your competing against guys using crews of illegals they will always beat you on price, But your right on bad PR because thier work is usually sloppy and cheap. They arent dependable, many horror stories of people paying a shady sub who offered to build a deck or addition , take thier money and dip half way though.

My company has done several "redo" projects for people who hired shady subs to do a job and got burned half way through production and were gone never to be seen again after they got the down payment, never even saw the materials.

Ive seen vinyl siding that was nailed into houses and window jobs that are not at all tight and would never pass county inspection. They suck, they are just cheap, when people think they can save 3-5 grand on an addition by going with the guy with no company backing him, they are making a big mistake. That's just what ive observed anyway.

@jeezers: how did Democrats block all illegal immigration efforts when democrats have only had control of the house for six months of Trump's presidency?

How could they have blocked it when Republicans had full control for two years?

@Nuck81: oh yeah nucky your right! Liberals have been helping trump get the wall done every step of the way since 2016! The democrats sure are trying to fix the issue!!! They are champions of fighting back against illegal immigration!! Lets kick back some bleach and marvel at how helpful they have been!!!

Because worker restrictions, even border related, are a talking point in free market circles. If you identity as a libertarian you should have already known this. There are huge advocates in libertarian sections that see labor restrictions as being a negative since they drive/limit competition of labor.

Trump had a majority in both chambers until recently. Why would he have needed liberals to fund a wall? He had congress on his side the entire time.

@HoolaHoopMan: you need more than a simple majority how do you guys not know this?

@Jacanuk: You should re-read the article and understand what the situation is as it does not support your argument. Go to any significant job posting site and you will see there are literally hundreds of available welding jobs available in Texas. It is pretty much an unassailable fact that skilled wielders are hard to find, especially in boom times. This is fairly common in many trades.

It is also true that there is a wide variety of pay range for that skill set as is the case for many trades especially non-unionized. And not all welding is the same. My very large multinational firm does attract the best and pays at the highest range. $40+ hr is definitely attainable for welders. At the same time many welding jobs are only going to pay $18 or $20. Because spot welding some cheap industrial good is not the same as welding for shipping or infrastructure.

The dude in the article is not saying he pays $40 hr....he has to compete with $40hr. His type of company with trailers and hitches could not support that, illegal immigrants or not. Jobs a plenty for welders are available. The top rate attracts the best and gets the best. He owns a smallish family business. It is in a small town. He can not attract people and can't compete with that wage. He feels his choice is go out of business or find another skilled labour pool sufficient to do his work.

Your argument is that the low end of the market is what is distorting the market, but the opposite is true in times of boom. It is companies like mine at the high end of the market that distorts things by gobbling up all the highly skilled labour at high pay rates...pretty much no matter the cost.

You will find many welding jobs in Texas available right now. Most of them are going to be at the mid to lower pay rate. They are available because there isn't the available labour pool. And those people aren't available because the economy is booming at historic low unemployment rates.

I can't speak for all scenarios, but this one is close to my business so I know it well. Your perspective of what is going on and the drivers of it using that example are the opposite of reality. Anyone wanting to work in that job at that family business has the choice of literally hundreds of other jobs at similar rates.

If immigration is going to happen regardless of its legality shouldn't republicans be in favour of just stop regulating it?

@jeezers: you're

Their plan is to let everyone in.

@Chutebox: jajaja I think ur right

@horgen: From what I hear, there are both skilled and unskilled illegal workers in the UK construction business. They are also present in restaurants, small shops, cleaners and etc.

Going back to the US situation. In my opinion, I think stronger regulation, enforcement and hefty fines will be a better deterrent.

Imagine this. Each town/city will have to train people to carry out these checks. These are jobs. If any company does break the rules they will be fined, this is money back to the local government. And hopefully the money retrieved will be spent on the local area.

Eventually, firms will learn they cannot break the rules and hire illegal immigrants.

However, there will always be illegal immigrants. If there is a wall, they will find a way to cross it. Let’s say they cannot pass the wall then they will apply for visas to visit the US.

Once they arrive they just overstay, find jobs and undercut the market.

I want to add a further point (fin-tech). Currently I am in China and electronic payments is the most popular method to pay for anything from a few sprigs of green onions to a car.

To be part of this you need official identification to register with WeChat Pay or Alipay.

Soon cash will be gone in China and therefore it would be very difficult to pay illegal workers since they will not have the official identification to receive payments.

I think this is where the world is heading, fin-tech will cut corruption, tax avoidance, illegal payments and etc...

But this is a different and long story.

Not a democrat but

1. Strengthen Surveillance.
2. End the drug war.
3. Stop propping up and supporting the dictators the refugees are fleeing from.

In fact, by letting the living standards improve in other countries seems to actually work. Since there are less illegals now than in a long time. As Mexico's situation is improving.

None of these suggestions are strictly immigrant related like building a wall is.

At least Jacanuk and I have discussed and agreed it would be smarter to target the companies that hire illegal workers for half or less wages. Atm it is a calculated risk with huge chances of winning big time.

So before I begin to debate you more seriously there are a few things here.

You claim there are plenty of jobs for welders in Texas, please provide documentation for that. Also, it does not matter if the company in the article says he pays 20 or 40, the fact is that the company has been caught several times for having illegals employed

Also my argument is not " in the low end" it´s the fact that it´s not 5 or 10 or even 50 illegals hired its hundreds who are paid very little and also only speak Spanish meaning that the work-environment for non-Spanish speakers can be dangerous since his co-workers are not able to adequately communication dangers or even read security warning signs

And let´s finish with a quote

""I think the manufacturing industry in Texas, any kind of steel fabrication construction, depends on illegal immigrant labor," Hiebert says."

If they really need labour that bad, then go through legal avenues to get them here, don´t hire illegals who already have shown a distaste for America´s way of life and laws.

If you guys aren't able to post without insulting each other, you will be banned.

it's the multiple personalities that confuse me.

we want free markets we want free markets!

well, here's a bunch of other countries that will compete with you.

NO! i didn't mean free for everyone. just free for me!

@horgen: what's the fun in that?

Fun?

You can't even speak about religion on these boards. Or, more precisely, be derogatory towards it. But it's perfectly okay for religion (most notably Christianity) to view and label me in derogatory terms as a central tenet of its ideology and I must "respect" that viewpoint, and if I don't....ban.

Flag it. I don't catch everything here.

@MirkoS77: huh? I was just saying it's no fun if I can't say shit post anymore.

As a phrase, it's starting to catch on here.

I'm proud of that.

He's an incredibly incompetent president.

You are confused a bit here.

When anyone who is for free market except the libertarians says free market, they don´t mean Free as in Jungle law rules, they mean free as in a well-regulated fair market open for all on equal terms.